Lone Gunman Kills 6 At Sikh Temple In Wisconsin

[koheesti]

They are only "too soft" because they are democracies with human rights and freedom of speech and such.

I'm for freedom of speech. I'm pro-gun ownership. I'm even for freedom of joining the local Nazi party if you want - it's a good way to get the cockroaches of society to come out in the open. However, I don't see why it should be legal for Nazis to own any type of firearm. Isn't violence against other people just because they look different a central part of their philosophy? Why in the world let nut jobs like that own a weapon?

[Steely Dan]

Well I think whether the lunatic acted alone or not this attack should be classified as an attack by an angry right wing racist, even this supposed hate site records it as such, however a cursory look at the stats puts it in perspective before witch hunts ensue.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[Jingthing]

Yes this SHOULD be a no brainer for both US parties. No legal way for someone known to be a NAZI to legally buy any kind of firearm, much less a semi-automatic one! Sadly, gun politics are so dysfunctional in the US that the notorious NRA would block even that. Pathetic. Freedom of speech, yes, even for Nazis. Freedom to buy lethal weapons for Nazis? Please. No.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Jingthing

[moe666]

The attackers association to a white hate group would indicate that the attack was about skin color as opposed to an attack on religious grounds. Watching the reports on CNN this was a gudawara composed of mostly Sikhs of Indian heritage.

[moe666]

They are only "too soft" because they are democracies with human rights and freedom of speech and such.

I'm for freedom of speech. I'm pro-gun ownership. I'm even for freedom of joining the local Nazi party if you want - it's a good way to get the cockroaches of society to come out in the open. However, I don't see why it should be legal for Nazis to own any type of firearm. Isn't violence against other people just because they look different a central part of their philosophy? Why in the world let nut jobs like that own a weapon?

The same people who let you own a weapon.

[Jingthing]

The attackers association to a white hate group would indicate that the attack was about skin color as opposed to an attack on religious grounds. Watching the reports on CNN this was a gudawara composed of mostly Sikhs of Indian heritage.

No, you don't understand. American Neo-Nazis hate non-white people and also non-Christian religious minorities. That is about more than skin color only, dude.

[moe666]

The attackers association to a white hate group would indicate that the attack was about skin color as opposed to an attack on religious grounds. Watching the reports on CNN this was a gudawara composed of mostly Sikhs of Indian heritage.

No, you don't understand. American Neo-Nazis hate non-white people and also non-Christian religious minorities. That is about more than skin color only, dude.

For starters I'm not a dude. As I said I will stand by my statement more about skin color than religion, who knows what this wanke_r was thinking surely not even Jingthing.

[Jingthing]

The attackers association to a white hate group would indicate that the attack was about skin color as opposed to an attack on religious grounds. Watching the reports on CNN this was a gudawara composed of mostly Sikhs of Indian heritage.

No, you don't understand. American Neo-Nazis hate non-white people and also non-Christian religious minorities. That is about more than skin color only, dude.

For starters I'm not a dude. As I said I will stand by my statement more about skin color than religion, who knows what this wanke_r was thinking surely not even Jingthing.

Actually, we have a very good idea what he was thinking. He has a verifiable history of participation with American far right hate groups and we know lots about what these groups are thinking.

A great source for this:

http://www.splcenter...f-skinhead-band

The man who allegedly murdered six people at a Sikh temple in suburban Milwaukee yesterday, identified in media reports as Wade Michael Page, was a frustrated neo-Nazi who had been the leader of a racist white-power band.

Neo Nazis:

http://www.splcenter...eology/neo-nazi

Racist Skinhead:

http://www.splcenter...racist-skinhead

White Nationalist:

http://www.splcenter...ite-nationalist

Edited August 7, 2012 by Jingthing

[JemJem]

I shall beg to differ. I am speaking not only as a hardcore anti-fascist but also as a humanist: I don't want freedom of expression given to extremist groups, such as jihadi groups and white supremacist groups. For phuck's sake, man, can't you see that they poison the minds of youngsters and also incite many people towards violence ?!

[Ulysses G.]

While I personally agree with you on that, it is very slippery slope.

[simple1]

While I personally agree with you on that, it is very slippery slope.

To balance Freedom of Speech, does the US have anti vilification laws similar to the UK?

[ronz28]

Freedom means you have to expect nutters to occasionally do crazy things and all you can do is prevent what you can and take quick action if something happens as in this case. Gun control wouldn't stop murderers as they will just find another weapon and you can't ban everything.

We can do a better job of educating people to think independently to do the right thing rather than be led by destructive groups. US Army training of its Psyops operatives needs to improve especially when it plans to boot out one one of their own from their unit. The US Army apparently has a problem because it trained several mass murderers including the Oklahoma City bomber, the Wisconsin murderer and the Ft Hood murderer, that I can recall offhand.

Other recent mass murderers like the Joker/Batman movie murderer and the Arizona meet up with your Congressman murder were known to have unresolved psychiatric issues. Better care and monitoring of the mentally unstable is warranted too but it all costs money.

[geriatrickid]

There is no evidence that this was domestic terrorism, nor is there evidence that this killing rampage was due to the man's alleged neo nazi views. I think the simplest explanation is probably the most approriate: The man was mentally ill and his recent personal life crises pushed him into the danger zone. Note that he was a long term alcoholic. He was discharged involuntarily from the military due to multiple misconducts, including showing up to formation inebrriated. He was terminated from his job as a trucker 2 years ago after he was arrested for for impaired driving. He has had a couple DUIs. There are allegations of drug use, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was meth. His home was recently foreclosed.

I suggest that his views were fueled by his alcoholism and that he fell into the abyss that so often plagues alcoholics. Rather than accepting that he was the cause of his own problems, he blamed others, which again is typical of alcoholics. Some drunks beat their family members, others get into brawls, and some kill people. This was one very sick man that had access to firearms.When a worker goes on a killing spree at his former place of employment or selects a restaurant as his killing zone, do we rush to call it a hate crime? Many of the killers involved in such events have held some very strong views and didn't appear to be violent at first. The reports of those that knew the man described him as having been peaceful and non violent. I think the booze changed him and as the alcohol damaged his brain. He was unable to keep a grip on reality and to understand right from wrong. The alcohol damaged the part of the brain which is responsible for self control.

It is easier to label the guy a neo nazi nut and say it was a neo nazi that was responsible for the murders than to deal with the real issues. Our society allows chronic alcoholics to spiral out of control and to have access to guns. We do not intervene unil it is too late. Is this guy any different than the schizophrenic killer that was sentenced to life yesterday for his attack on Gabby Giffords and her constituents, or the kid that recently shot up the cinema or any other mass murderer? He was a danger to society and to himself, and society had neither the inclination nor was willing to spend the money to protect itself nor deal with the problem.

[koheesti]

It is easier to label the guy a neo nazi nut and say it was a neo nazi that was responsible for the murders than to deal with the real issues.

While I agree with your full post, the reason it is easy for me to label him a neo Nazi nut is this:

[Ulysses G.]

Let's compromise. He was a Nazi nut.and an alcoholic. Can't we all get along?

[Jingthing]

What a legacy. He probably killed a bunch of Sikhs thinking they were Muslims. I really do feel sorry for his parents. I do kind of wish he had lived because I think going through a trial and then whatever would be worse than the quick death he got.

[Baloo22]

Freedom means you have to expect nutters to occasionally do crazy things and all you can do is prevent what you can and take quick action if something happens as in this case. Gun control wouldn't stop murderers as they will just find another weapon and you can't ban everything.

We can do a better job of educating people to think independently to do the right thing rather than be led by destructive groups. US Army training of its Psyops operatives needs to improve especially when it plans to boot out one one of their own from their unit. The US Army apparently has a problem because it trained several mass murderers including the Oklahoma City bomber, the Wisconsin murderer and the Ft Hood murderer, that I can recall offhand.

Other recent mass murderers like the Joker/Batman movie murderer and the Arizona meet up with your Congressman murder were known to have unresolved psychiatric issues. Better care and monitoring of the mentally unstable is warranted too but it all costs money.

You are spot-on with your paragraphs one and three. I agree 100%!

Little bit off with paragraph two. You use the term "Psyops operatives" like they are all some type of John Rambo or Jason Bourne. That is not the case. Psychological Operations units contain all sorts of different specialties/jobs including "propaganda" writers, printing press operators, supply clerks, cooks, drivers, vehicle mechanics, etc, etc.

As far as your assertion that the US Army has "a problem because it trained several mass murderers"? That's garbage. There are literally millions of citizens who have served in one of the armed forces. The vast majority lead productive and honest lives. As with any other group of millions of people, some will do bad things. Some of them will do those bad things no matter what the Army does.

[coma]

Latest reports out are saying that this dude was only wounded by police the he finished himself off with a gunshot wound to the head.

[Exsexyman]

Yes this SHOULD be a no brainer for both US parties. No legal way for someone known to be a NAZI to legally buy any kind of firearm, much less a semi-automatic one! Sadly, gun politics are so dysfunctional in the US that the notorious NRA would block even that. Pathetic. Freedom of speech, yes, even for Nazis. Freedom to buy lethal weapons for Nazis? Please. No.

Don't hold your breath Jingthing. We had a senior judge / legislator on Fox News this week saying that hand held rocket launchers were legal under the constitution! Why would any non military person want one of them? Hunting? Their constitutional rights? No wonder the rest of the world shakes their head at the US.

[GiHadOrange]

Well I think whether the lunatic acted alone or not this attack should be classified as an attack by an angry right wing racist, even this supposed hate site records it as such, however a cursory look at the stats puts it in perspective before witch hunts ensue.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

No worry. Someone will come and explain this killing just as the act of an alcoholic. What means this incident will not spoil your statistics that show that only Muslims are terrorists.

[GiHadOrange]

"suspect had a commemorative 9/11 tattoo" - The idiot probably thought he was attacking Muslims.

This extract from an article I read seems to add weight to your observation.

" Sikh rights groups have reported a rise in attacks in the US by people who mistake them for Muslims."

There is probably also a rise of attacks on Muslims too. Attacks just because they are Muslims. So called hate-crimes.

Good to know that soul searching investigations show that the perpetrators of such acts are always and only lone gunman and probably alcoholics. What means they aren't really a product of our society or have anything in common with any bigger part or social group of our society.

[wellred]

Anyone who thinks this wasn't a racially motivated attack needs a slap in the face and I'd be happy to hand it out.

Maybe he was targetting Sikhs, maybe he was targetting Muslims. In any case no ethnic group should be targeted in such a manner. This wouldn't be the first time Sikhs have been tatgetted by those thinking they were Muslims.

After 9/11 a Silkh guy was killed somewhere in America, think his name was Balbir Singh. And after the 7/11 London bombings 2 Gurdwaras in Kent and Leeds were firebombed.

Overall a little education is in order here and I'm not just talking about nut jobs with too much time on their hands like this chap but at the highest level. I'm sure it can't have helped that Mitt Romney referred to them as "sheikhs" twice. I mean no offence to Americans but is this guy a complete imbecile in the mould of Bush jnr?

It's not only America though. I'm a British born Sikh and although I don't wear a turban I know in some parts of the UK turban wearing Sikh men can be mistaken for being Muslim. I just hope this remains an isolated attack and not the start of something bigger.

[Ulysses G.]

I'm sure it can't have helped that Mitt Romney referred to them as "sheikhs" twice. I mean no offence to Americans but is this guy a complete imbecile

No he is not. He is quite clever and made millions of dollars. There are not many Sikhs in the US and very few people would know what they are.

[Jingthing]

I'm sure it can't have helped that Mitt Romney referred to them as "sheikhs" twice. I mean no offence to Americans but is this guy a complete imbecile

No he is not. He is quite clever and made millions of dollars. There are not many Sikhs in the US and very few people would know what they are.

Educated people usually know.

[Ulysses G.]

Horse manure.

[Jingthing]

Horse manure.

Tastes like chicken?

[wellred]

I'm sure it can't have helped that Mitt Romney referred to them as "sheikhs" twice. I mean no offence to Americans but is this guy a complete imbecile

No he is not. He is quite clever and made millions of dollars. There are not many Sikhs in the US and very few people would know what they are.

There are over half a million Sikhs living in the US, also Sikhs have been there for almost 100 years.

As the above poster noted though the problem is poor education and awareness.

[Semper]

The idiot

You got that right. At least he is no more.

[Credo]

The idiot

You got that right. At least he is no more.

Which idiot? Romney is still around. He just finished and overseas trip.

The other idiot most likely knew the difference between a Shiek and Sikh.

[GiHadOrange]

I'm sure it can't have helped that Mitt Romney referred to them as "sheikhs" twice. I mean no offence to Americans but is this guy a complete imbecile

No he is not. He is quite clever and made millions of dollars. There are not many Sikhs in the US and very few people would know what they are.

Educated people usually know.

The comment that very few people in the US know what they (Sikhs) are seems to be still valid.