What Legal Right Do I Have Over A Bungalow That I Bought For My Partner Now She Has Died?

[tonybuak]

About two years ago i went to my thai bank in bangkok and got a cheque nade payable to the person who owned the house for the agreed sum.

I stayed there for around two years doing standard visa runs ect. I obtaind a yellow book for the property in this time,

Some time later when i was not there my partner died, there were to my knowledge no one else living there.

my question is this; what powers do i have over the sale of this property?

the family as far as i know are quite happy with me taking controll as long as i give them something so what powers do i have in this situation?

[Soutpeel]

Legally married, Will in place ?....ultimately believe you have 12 months to sell the property, as legally you cant own the land

If not married, think the family would inherit this anyway

Edited August 6, 2012 by Soutpeel

[Chittychangchang]

Sorry for your loss.

How well do you know and trust the family?

Are you expecting a return on your outgoing?

Im sure some of TV's more knowledgeble posters will be along soon.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Far as I know a farang can own 1 rai of land legally. Get yourself some legal help and forget about resolving this online.

[Soutpeel]

Far as I know a farang can own 1 rai of land legally. Get yourself some legal help and forget about resolving this online.

no they cant, there is a provison under Amity companies for US citizens...but at the discretion of some minister or other and dont beleive this have ever been granted, also think there is a provision for investing THB 30 million in goverment bonds and being able to buy one whole rai in your name...expensive bit of ground

The OP used the term partner, rather than wife, and i may be correct in assuming they were not legally married, there in the absence of a defined will, the family will have first dibs on the property

Edited August 6, 2012 by Soutpeel

[transam]

Far as I know a farang can own 1 rai of land legally. Get yourself some legal help and forget about resolving this online.

No, Don't think so. If married one year to sell or it has been known via the legal stuff to decide to live in it till death then it goes to next of kin.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Far as I know a farang can own 1 rai of land legally. Get yourself some legal help and forget about resolving this online.

no they cant, there is a provison under Amity companies for US citizens...but at the discretion of some minister or other and dont beleive this have ever been grant, also think there is a provision for investing THB 30 million in goverment bondss and being able to buy one whle rai in your name...expensive bit of ground

Sorry Soutpeel but I still recommend contact with a lawyer. I hate lawyers but sometimes they are the only ones who can help.

[Soutpeel]

Far as I know a farang can own 1 rai of land legally. Get yourself some legal help and forget about resolving this online.

no they cant, there is a provison under Amity companies for US citizens...but at the discretion of some minister or other and dont beleive this have ever been grant, also think there is a provision for investing THB 30 million in goverment bondss and being able to buy one whle rai in your name...expensive bit of ground

Sorry Soutpeel but I still recommend contact with a lawyer. I hate lawyers but sometimes they are the only ones who can help.

Of course by all means contact a lawyer...the OP is not providing enough info anyway...key point in all this...whose name on the Chanote ?....we know its not the OP

[BuckarooBanzai]

Far as I know a farang can own 1 rai of land legally. Get yourself some legal help and forget about resolving this online.

no they cant, there is a provison under Amity companies for US citizens...but at the discretion of some minister or other and dont beleive this have ever been grant, also think there is a provision for investing THB 30 million in goverment bondss and being able to buy one whle rai in your name...expensive bit of ground

Sorry Soutpeel but I still recommend contact with a lawyer. I hate lawyers but sometimes they are the only ones who can help.

Of course by all means contact a lawyer...the OP is not providing enough info anyway...key point in all this...whose name on the Chanote ?....we know its not the OP

Very troubling is the term partner. There are laws regarding spouses but if you did not bother to get married I do not think there are any palimony rules. If you are not married I would guess you are out of luck as perhaps is appropriate. Has to do with commitment.

[Beetlejuice]

This is your situation:

I am guessing that you were not married to your partner.

Unless you gave the money as a loan, meaning with official documentation signed by your partner accepting that the monies were a loan, including the terms and conditions and over what periods the loan should be paid back, or the property was part of your legal company assets, than in fact the said money is classified as a gift and the whole estate will now be passed on to the next of kin that does not include you unless the deceased made a will to the contrary and that can be challenged by the next of kin if you are a farang and cannot have any entitlements to the estate under Thai law.

I have no doubts that your partner’s family are already sniffing around, believing Christmas has come early for them.

I don`t think you have any chance whatsoever of claiming your money back and my advice is, seek the advice of a reputable lawyer.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[MrMuddle]

Sorry for your loss. It's hard enough losing someone, without having to go through any additional worries and problems, I hope everything works out for you.

Probably like a few others, this topic has got me thinking what if ?

So with that in mind, can anyone recommend a reputable lawyer, or give advice on wills, or how to ensure a foreigner can stay in a property his wife owns, if the wife was to die first ?

[Beetlejuice]

Sorry for your loss. It's hard enough losing someone, without having to go through any additional worries and problems, I hope everything works out for you.

Probably like a few others, this topic has got me thinking what if ?

So with that in mind, can anyone recommend a reputable lawyer, or give advice on wills, or how to ensure a foreigner can stay in a property his wife owns, if the wife was to die first ?

Anyone that gives money to a Thai person in Thailand, who is not their spouse, for any type of project or reason, is in fact handing it over as a gift unless there are signed legal documentations as for the purpose of donating the funds or is part of a legal business practices that the foreigner has shares as a part owner.

A foreigner is covered under Thai law (with agreements) for the repayment of loans he issued, providing it is not classified under a money lending business where interest on the loan is expected and proof that the money was not lent for profit and gain.

As in the event of a death of an actual spouse, than the partner is entitled to full value of the estate, unless a will states otherwise, if (regarding property) it is placed up for sale within the first 12 months from date of death, unless the farang husband has some sort of lease agreement on the family home for a certain time period. That is the assets, which are in the wife’s name only, not those in the names of third parties and also had to be acquired legally under Thai law. The spouse’s family next of kin can contest a will or who is rightfully entitled to inherit the estate and in many cases the final decision maybe left up to the discretion of the judge, meaning the policy that the farang husband is entitled to all, is not guaranteed. Also in some cases the judge may rule that the whole estate be put up for auction, or even confiscated by the Government, if the husband appears to be dragging his feet over the sales.

The system is full of flaws, if, buts and maybes. The bottom line is: If you lend or give money without legal agreements or property has been obtained by bending the laws, than it is done according to discretion, risk or on trust.

I have placed my property in the names of all my three children, but of course, I do trust my children.

This means that if the wife suddenly takes off and elopes with the neighbor next door, or is adducted by aliens, than I can relax without the worries of her grasping family turning up and pulling the rug from under my feet.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[GuestHouse]

Talk to your wife/girlfriend's family. Explain you need to sell the property so that you can move on with your life - Since the property is legally your wife's family I'd offer a deal 50% would be reasonable.

Despite the doom and gloom we read here, two people I know in the same situation were helped out by their wife's families - one got all his money back, his wife's family happy to help someone who had been so very good to their daughter.

Best of luck and condolences on your loss.

[Sharp]

Far as I know a farang can own 1 rai of land legally. Get yourself some legal help and forget about resolving this online.

yanks only ...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Sharp]

About two years ago i went to my thai bank in bangkok and got a cheque nade payable to the person who owned the house for the agreed sum.

I stayed there for around two years doing standard visa runs ect. I obtaind a yellow book for the property in this time,

Some time later when i was not there my partner died, there were to my knowledge no one else living there.

my question is this; what powers do i have over the sale of this property?

the family as far as i know are quite happy with me taking controll as long as i give them something so what powers do i have in this situation?

PM me I have a great lawyer if u need one ,,,

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[electau]

You should obtain sound legal advice first. Is there a will?

De facto relationships ( ie common law ) are not legally recognised in Thailand. Dejure ( legally married) are.

The term "partner" generally refers to a defacto relationship or what is known sometimes as a "same sex relationship".

Edited August 7, 2012 by electau

[MrMuddle]

From beetlejuice's post above

"As in the event of a death of an actual spouse, than the partner is entitled to full value of the estate, unless a will states otherwise, if (regarding property) it is placed up for sale within the first 12 months from date of death, unless the farang husband has some sort of lease agreement on the family home for a certain time period."

So if I get a good lawyer, (recommendations gratefully accepted), and get him to draw up, for example, a 30 year lease, then I have no worries if anything happens to my wife ? (I'm almost sixty).

[true blue]

From beetlejuice's post above

"As in the event of a death of an actual spouse, than the partner is entitled to full value of the estate, unless a will states otherwise, if (regarding property) it is placed up for sale within the first 12 months from date of death, unless the farang husband has some sort of lease agreement on the family home for a certain time period."

So if I get a good lawyer, (recommendations gratefully accepted), and get him to draw up, for example, a 30 year lease, then I have no worries if anything happens to my wife ? (I'm almost sixty).

the proplem is as i read it your wife would have to be the one who leases it to you,and if she dies the lease dies with her.bit complicated i know,be nice to get this subject pinned,and some real professional advice on it as it seems a grey area for a lot of guys,though the one overiding factor in this is,a farrang,can not own lAND IN LOS.

[Beetlejuice]

<p>

From beetlejuice's post above

"As in the event of a death of an actual spouse, than the partner is entitled to full value of the estate, unless a will states otherwise, if (regarding property) it is placed up for sale within the first 12 months from date of death, unless the farang husband has some sort of lease agreement on the family home for a certain time period."

So if I get a good lawyer, (recommendations gratefully accepted), and get him to draw up, for example, a 30 year lease, then I have no worries if anything happens to my wife ? (I'm almost sixty).

The problem is that we do not have knowledge of your situation.

What was the status between you and your partner?

Are you living in Thailand?

Were you, living, separated, or divorced from your partner.

Do you have children with your partner or did she have children from previous or other partners?

Are there any wills involved?

Is everything in the name of your partner or third parties?

Are your intentions to remain in the property or to sell and retrive back your financial investment?

If your partner is already deceased, it is probably now too late to draw up a lease agreement.

As for finding a reputable lawyer, your best bet would be to contact your embassy or consulate here in Thailand, explain your situation and they should have a list of recommended English speaking Thai lawyers or there are several advertised here on Thai visa.

All this means is that a lot depends on the circumstances, for example, how you paid for and acquired the property and the type or relationship you had with your partner. So in fact All this means is that a lot depends on the circumstances on how you paid for and acquired the property and the type or relationship you had with your partner. It is difficult to advise you, because most of this is according to one word: DEPENDS.

I have already given you an outline in my previous post, which gives you a basic idea of what is involved. Your choices really boil down to either using the services of a lawyer or placing yourself at the mercy of your partner’s family or whoever else she/he was involved with.

I strongly advise that you seek the services of a lawyer, providing of course that you have the funds to pay all the legal expensies, as lawyers are never cheap. But a good reputable lawyer may be able to pull a few tricks out of the hat. So now you have to make a decision on what you consider will be your next best move.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[billd766]

Sorry for your loss. It's hard enough losing someone, without having to go through any additional worries and problems, I hope everything works out for you.

Probably like a few others, this topic has got me thinking what if ?

So with that in mind, can anyone recommend a reputable lawyer, or give advice on wills, or how to ensure a foreigner can stay in a property his wife owns, if the wife was to die first ?

In our wills the house and land etc will be put in our 8 year old sons' name making him the owner instead of my wife.

In addition to this not only am I his father but also his legal guardian if my wife dies first which means that until he legally comes of age I can still live there.

After that time of course he can kick his old Dad out on the streets so I suppose I had better be nice to him now and again.

I am on a retirement visa so that is no problem.

[Sophon]

Far as I know a farang can own 1 rai of land legally. Get yourself some legal help and forget about resolving this online.

yanks only ...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

"Yanks" are no different from any other nationality (except Thai) in this regard. If you are thinking of Amity companies then those are specifically excluded from owning land (less than 1 rai or otherwise).

As far as I am aware the only legal way for a foreigner to own land is through the 40 million baht investment scheme, which theoretically allows for ownership of up to 1 rai of land. But it still requires minesteral approval and I have yet to read about anyone getting such approval.

Sophon

Edited August 7, 2012 by Sophon

[Beetlejuice]

I apologise for the repeat of some sentences in my above post. This is because I am having slow Internet problems this morning.

[MrMuddle]

Thank you to all members who have offered advice. Much appreciated.

And again, condolences to the topic starter, for your sad loss.