Are Thais Getting Into Debt

[travelmann]

they get it from farang men, the foolish ones who give it.

the ones who do anything the woman says as everytime he dont she threatens to split.

being that they have never had an even remotely attractive woman at home they will do almost anything not to lose her.

even start bs'ing themselves.

that my friend is where the money is coming from, and its the foolish farang in debt, not the thai.

allways the sweet handsome man who suffers, when he is broke, he is a baaaaaaaaaaaad man, when he is broke, he is no longer handsome.

A VERY small minority, so small hardly worth counting imo

[travelmann]

It is very possible that we are in the midst of 1997 part 2. Not just in Thailand but globally.

You have a situation where low interest rates cause assets to raise in value. Then people think that these gains are "real". They then go out and spend more or borrow more based on these gains. When those gains prove illusory, the bubble collapses.

Is this what is going on? Who knows. A few influential people in the Thai real estate market have alluded towards this.

This has been the story of the last two decades of active central bank interest rate tinkering.

Nobody wants to save money for 1% annual interest. If interest rates were 6-7-8-9% you would have individuals saving instead of splurging. Certain economists say that saving is terrible and that we should promote spending which creates economic growth which is done via artificially low interest rates. What we have seen though is one asset bubble after another with this format.

The first post in this thread which shows any connection with the real world. This debt bubble is virtually worldwide. It's the reason why the Eurozone is staggering under massive debts... Greece, Italy, Spain etc. The US is massively in debt, and there is no way it can repay (except by printing more money).. The UK is going along the same route. Why should Thailand be any different?

The worrying part is i can see WWIII looming as it all goes ti*s up.

[theblether]

It is very possible that we are in the midst of 1997 part 2. Not just in Thailand but globally.

You have a situation where low interest rates cause assets to raise in value. Then people think that these gains are "real". They then go out and spend more or borrow more based on these gains. When those gains prove illusory, the bubble collapses.

Is this what is going on? Who knows. A few influential people in the Thai real estate market have alluded towards this.

This has been the story of the last two decades of active central bank interest rate tinkering.

Nobody wants to save money for 1% annual interest. If interest rates were 6-7-8-9% you would have individuals saving instead of splurging. Certain economists say that saving is terrible and that we should promote spending which creates economic growth which is done via artificially low interest rates. What we have seen though is one asset bubble after another with this format.

The first post in this thread which shows any connection with the real world. This debt bubble is virtually worldwide. It's the reason why the Eurozone is staggering under massive debts... Greece, Italy, Spain etc. The US is massively in debt, and there is no way it can repay (except by printing more money).. The UK is going along the same route. Why should Thailand be any different?

Your comment about the UK is 4 years out of date.

[loong]

Although I see a lot of the rural poor putting themselves into debt without considering the consequences, they are not buying Ipads etc. They do like to have a better than average phone though.

There is a huge income gap between the haves and have nots in Thailand. Although a relatively small %, there are a lot of high wage earners in Thailand and they tend to be concentrated in cities. These people can afford the nice cars etc and send their children to University with an allowance that would keep 2 rural families.

Most of those people you see probably have well paid jobs or well off parents.

[mackes]

I agree about the opinion that Farang money is irrelevant in this discussion.

However what I've seen is that the Thai credit market is poorly regulated not to talk about the illegal market.

In combination with poor education this makes it easy for Thai's to get loans they can't pay back and is devastating for the low and middle class.

I see examples on (legal) loans that actually raise every month despite payment. And the marketing version is 3% never mention it is 3% monthly (36%) and the interest calculated on the full first loan sum regardless of later payment.

With this kind of incomes the lender can take high risks and give loans to anyone asking... If not payed they send people home to collect the money and charge an extra 500฿ for that. With legal support...

And this example is from an official credit company in Thailand reminiscent of a criminal behavior in the west.

Maybe this is an explanation where all the new cars and motorbikes is coming from.

[Cobalt60]

I tried to by a motorbike with cash, many retailers were not interested, couldnt be bothered to help, not quite refusing to sell but nearly. Turns into a different story if you wanted it on credit. They obviously make far more out of the deal that way, just a little example of how the credit mindset is encouraged.

[thaibeachlovers]

they get it from farang men, the foolish ones who give it.

the ones who do anything the woman says as everytime he dont she threatens to split.

being that they have never had an even remotely attractive woman at home they will do almost anything not to lose her.

even start bs'ing themselves.

that my friend is where the money is coming from, and its the foolish farang in debt, not the thai.

allways the sweet handsome man who suffers, when he is broke, he is a baaaaaaaaaaaad man, when he is broke, he is no longer handsome.

Not always true. In my wife's village, I was the only farang, and there were many people with a lot of new property. Many old wood houses being elevated over new concrete down stairs room, new cars and all the kids seem to have motorbikes, spend hours playing games on the internet.

I asked my wife and she says it's all borrowed, from family or the bank.

[thaibeachlovers]

It is very possible that we are in the midst of 1997 part 2. Not just in Thailand but globally.

You have a situation where low interest rates cause assets to raise in value. Then people think that these gains are "real". They then go out and spend more or borrow more based on these gains. When those gains prove illusory, the bubble collapses.

Is this what is going on? Who knows. A few influential people in the Thai real estate market have alluded towards this.

This has been the story of the last two decades of active central bank interest rate tinkering.

Nobody wants to save money for 1% annual interest. If interest rates were 6-7-8-9% you would have individuals saving instead of splurging. Certain economists say that saving is terrible and that we should promote spending which creates economic growth which is done via artificially low interest rates. What we have seen though is one asset bubble after another with this format.

The first post in this thread which shows any connection with the real world. This debt bubble is virtually worldwide. It's the reason why the Eurozone is staggering under massive debts... Greece, Italy, Spain etc. The US is massively in debt, and there is no way it can repay (except by printing more money).. The UK is going along the same route. Why should Thailand be any different?

The worrying part is i can see WWIII looming as it all goes ti*s up.

I doubt it. The west is so soft now, that they will give in as soon as a "real" power attacks, or resort to nuclear weapons, and then it's really all over.

[thaibeachlovers]

being that they have never had an even remotely attractive woman at home they will do almost anything not to lose her.

even start bs'ing themselves.

allways the sweet handsome man who suffers, when he is broke, he is a baaaaaaaaaaaad man, when he is broke, he is no longer handsome.

i ve got a bone to pick with you.

the women that guys pick in thailand arent any more attractive than the ones they got back home.................lol.

While they may not always be more attractive than the ones back home, they will be considerably younger, and probably actually still have sex after getting married, LOL.

[thaibeachlovers]

To borrow money here is far easier than farang land. If a native has some sort of government job, they are laughing, BUT those who ''pass'' a loan application are not taking into account the hole they are digging.

My Mrs sister does sod all but drink and gamble, her husband works for an electric supplier and he has borrowed hundreds of thousands, l believe against his pension payout. Problem is he soon retires and will have little left to live on.

In my experience, be it ever so limited, Thais are less likely to worry about the future than farangs. After all, there's always next time around.....................

[payak]

they get it from farang men, the foolish ones who give it.

the ones who do anything the woman says as everytime he dont she threatens to split.

being that they have never had an even remotely attractive woman at home they will do almost anything not to lose her.

even start bs'ing themselves.

that my friend is where the money is coming from, and its the foolish farang in debt, not the thai.

allways the sweet handsome man who suffers, when he is broke, he is a baaaaaaaaaaaad man, when he is broke, he is no longer handsome.

Is this anecdotal evidance or something that happened to you? as you seem to be very well informed

how do you know im well informed,maybe everything i said was way off.

this was a joke, you are obviously to thick to see that.

so predictable, i was absolutly sure someone would say it must have happened to me, every one knows it happens unless they were born yesterday,does not mean it happened to me.

[payak]

being that they have never had an even remotely attractive woman at home they will do almost anything not to lose her.

even start bs'ing themselves.

allways the sweet handsome man who suffers, when he is broke, he is a baaaaaaaaaaaad man, when he is broke, he is no longer handsome.

i ve got a bone to pick with you.

the women that guys pick in thailand arent any more attractive than the ones they got back home.................lol.

really, I dont see the 20 year olds chasing my handsome 72 year old father, but in thailand he sure could get em.

[WebBangkok]

People who are on and below the poverty line half a much larger percentage in being in debt.

This is because there is so many nice things you can have and make it a reality with borrowing money.

Its the same with any country, the figures are about all the same.

[jacktrip]

many Thais live in extended households.

pool your whole family together in a fairly cheap place, collect everyone's earnings at the end of the month, and you have some spending power.

[arthurwait]

There's several different cases for this.

Farang and country girl yes while it is one, it is very insignificant in the grand scheme of things and a pick up and 10-100,000 B per rai land in the backend of nowhere has little if no effect on the country as whole.

There's plenty of Thais living on credit and buying cars and bikes etc on it that they can't really afford.

Here there is secondhand motorbike shops springing up everywhere and all the existing ones stock just keeps increasing and increasing taking up more of the pavement with almost new motorbikes, but it's sort of the same as the UK with the secondhand car market flooded with Audi TT's, boxsters, RX8's and all the other estate agent/salesman cars along with all those hideous and crap bimbo cars with folding roofs that no ones buying.

What was a RX8 a few years back new, £20k ? Now you can't sell them for a couple of grand. (yes I know the rotary engine puts people off.

People in the above could be poor country folk buying a pick up or people on a half decent office wage buying either a pick up or car.

Many of the people buying these cars on credit they can't really afford do desperately want to appear rich and it seems it works going on how many people on this site fall for it. Labelling a office girl, high-so or upper middle class.

Many are in sales buying while they are doing good and many are propped up by parents perhaps against their land.

Then there are people who bought the car when they started a business thinking it would be a great success. Anyone fancy starting a coffee shop up next to the other 5 empty ones ? Come on guys, it will be a gold mine. We won't do any advertising either. Build it and they will come.

Then of course there are people that can really afford it. While the percentage of the overall population is small they are mainly based in Bangkok and the eastern seaboard so it does seem like it is a much higher percentage of the population if you live there.

Basically because their family moved there and re-invested their money in land and their businesses there as it's where the capital and ports are. The same reason foreign companies bring their factories here now which also provides some people with the means to buy cars.

It's now where the work is, where their parents, grand parents or great grand parents built the city up or the fishing villages into the towns and cities that make the countries modern economy. The expensive cars are bought by these people or the very few originally wealthy Thai families. Either with cash or credit on what their business make or against the land their families own. Which in some cases of these people run into millions of £ or $.

Go 10 km inland of these cities and you will see the original people of these places still on their farms where the above originally worked when they first migrated or the fishing villages where nothing has been reinvested in machinary or anything for that matter.

[Heng]

I have a rubber band on my Nokia 1202 (black and white screen... only have to charge it once a week tops) that keeps it from separating. Almost every single person who owes me money has a smart phone. Go figure.

Now back at my lair, I do have just about every single latest gadget known to Sharper Image, and okay, I'll admit that I do own more cars than I really need.

[chiang mai]

Anecdotal evidence: I ventured out of the safety and comfort of my 10th floor Chiang Mai bolt hole and drove down to Sukohthai for a long weekend, haven't made the trip for almost a year. Red plates abound on both legs of the journey, new buidlings on both sides of the motorway and all the way into the the central villages - even in poor villages, old wood houses are beng replaced by modern builds, some small, some not so small, the wife's village looks very different.

Sunday was mothers day so we find ourselves in Big C in Sukhothai, the centre of the universe and everyone's there, the place was jam packed, I've never seen a department store/shopping centre so full, the lines at the check outs are long and everyone's spending plenty. Finally, absolute confirmation: mother in law is the tightest wad you could wish to imagine and then some, she's bought a new freezer and my wiffe is shocked, "mum is spending money, she must be sick".

Finally, finally: we went to the village meeting on Saturday where the headman explained the vilage finances, they're in very good shape plus Bangkok has just gievn them another million baht which they must accept, to be used for low interest loans to village residents, laughter at the idea that they must not refuse the money (which apparently they have done in the past) - read into that what you will.

[kennedy]

My thai friend in the gated village where I live built a house that looks like a resort, and has new a car.I rent a attached house down the soi for 2000 bht a month and have no car.I put a couple thousand $$ into it to make it comfortable.I loaned him 10,000 bht so his boy could go to summer school in which he paid me back,but talk about loosing face!! So yes, they do over spend.

[chiangmaikelly]

New house is 100% loan from the bank at 3.5% or there abouts. You need 30,000 baht per month to qualify for the loan 30 years 1.5 mil or 1.8 mill baht. 2000 sq feet house nice neighborhood

[arthurwait]

Anecdotal evidence: I ventured out of the safety and comfort of my 10th floor Chiang Mai bolt hole and drove down to Sukohthai for a long weekend, haven't made the trip for almost a year. Red plates abound on both legs of the journey, new buidlings on both sides of the motorway and all the way into the the central villages - even in poor villages, old wood houses are beng replaced by modern builds, some small, some not so small, the wife's village looks very different.

Sunday was mothers day so we find ourselves in Big C in Sukhothai, the centre of the universe and everyone's there, the place was jam packed, I've never seen a department store/shopping centre so full, the lines at the check outs are long and everyone's spending plenty. Finally, absolute confirmation: mother in law is the tightest wad you could wish to imagine and then some, she's bought a new freezer and my wiffe is shocked, "mum is spending money, she must be sick".

Finally, finally: we went to the village meeting on Saturday where the headman explained the vilage finances, they're in very good shape plus Bangkok has just gievn them another million baht which they must accept, to be used for low interest loans to village residents, laughter at the idea that they must not refuse the money (which apparently they have done in the past) - read into that what you will.

What was the province on the plates. Just wondering if a lot of Bangkok people go there for a weekend. Like if you go to HH most the plates are Bangkok plates.

How do these loans work ? Are they against their property or nothing ?

[travelmann]

Many of these people are teetering on the brink......................my wife deals in condo sales/lets and many are now pretty desperate to find a tenant for their over supplied rooms.

[Paangjang]

I see expensive mercedes parked in front of 3,000 baht a month shacks here all the time. I think when a Thai has money the first thing they do is buy a pricey car. Cars are real status symbols here.

+1. Notice this all the time

[Heng]

I see expensive mercedes parked in front of 3,000 baht a month shacks here all the time. I think when a Thai has money the first thing they do is buy a pricey car. Cars are real status symbols here.

+1. Notice this all the time

I notice this type of comment all the time. LOL It's funny how people like to pretend they are above status symbols yet they are always peeking at everyone else's status symbols.

That said, I'm parked in front of all kinds of properties from time to time...., two story shophouses, buildings with roof top pools, some with chickens in the yard, it doesn't mean I'm rolling around on the dirt floor inside... it's not really an indicator of anything other than where I happen to be parked.

[chiang mai]

Not in ten years here have I ever seen a Merc (or similar) parked (as if owned) in front of an impoverished shack, perhaps that poster is recalling the Detroit ghetto's of the 1970's/1980's, the behaviour of less well off Thai's is not even remotely similar however.

[chiang mai]

Anecdotal evidence: I ventured out of the safety and comfort of my 10th floor Chiang Mai bolt hole and drove down to Sukohthai for a long weekend, haven't made the trip for almost a year. Red plates abound on both legs of the journey, new buidlings on both sides of the motorway and all the way into the the central villages - even in poor villages, old wood houses are beng replaced by modern builds, some small, some not so small, the wife's village looks very different.

Sunday was mothers day so we find ourselves in Big C in Sukhothai, the centre of the universe and everyone's there, the place was jam packed, I've never seen a department store/shopping centre so full, the lines at the check outs are long and everyone's spending plenty. Finally, absolute confirmation: mother in law is the tightest wad you could wish to imagine and then some, she's bought a new freezer and my wiffe is shocked, "mum is spending money, she must be sick".

Finally, finally: we went to the village meeting on Saturday where the headman explained the vilage finances, they're in very good shape plus Bangkok has just gievn them another million baht which they must accept, to be used for low interest loans to village residents, laughter at the idea that they must not refuse the money (which apparently they have done in the past) - read into that what you will.

What was the province on the plates. Just wondering if a lot of Bangkok people go there for a weekend. Like if you go to HH most the plates are Bangkok plates.

How do these loans work ? Are they against their property or nothing ?

I really didn't pay great attention to which provinces although from memory it seems that people from all provinces and not just Bangkok are in buying mode.

I can't be too certain about how the car loan system works, I believe it to be against the vehicle and not against real estate although a guarantor may be required if credit is poor/income is low etc.

[thenervoussurgeon]

they get it from farang men, the foolish ones who give it.

the ones who do anything the woman says as everytime he dont she threatens to split.

being that they have never had an even remotely attractive woman at home they will do almost anything not to lose her.

even start bs'ing themselves.

that my friend is where the money is coming from, and its the foolish farang in debt, not the thai.

allways the sweet handsome man who suffers, when he is broke, he is a baaaaaaaaaaaad man, when he is broke, he is no longer handsome.

Is this anecdotal evidance or something that happened to you? as you seem to be very well informed

how do you know im well informed,maybe everything i said was way off.

this was a joke, you are obviously to thick to see that.

so predictable, i was absolutly sure someone would say it must have happened to me, every one knows it happens unless they were born yesterday,does not mean it happened to me.

Oh it was a joke was it ,funny how its always"a joke" when no one agrees with you.

[MrRealDeal]

I think what you think you are seeing may be different from what it actually there ..... If you look at it western style a person with a marginal income taking care of mom in his house might look like he can't afford it , however in Thailand his 2 brothers and 3 sisters may be sending mom 5,000 bht per month and they can afford it.

I have a reletive who has given a TON of money to different reltives for houses cars ect they cant afford on their own , they are not in debt but from western eyes they would look like it.

[YipYipYa123]

there is a surprising amount of exotic and expensive vehicles in my car park that have been imported from japan and europe

SuperSport bikes ,Harley Davidsons,Bmws ,Mercs ,Lexus and loads of new fortuners and nissan and toyota pick ups (many with alloy wheels,upgraded suspension and all the optional extras ....)

I dont know what they all do for a living but whatever it is it must be paying well ........

could be all on credit but for sure there is some serious money in bkk and im NOT talking about the farangs

[farang000999]

i always figured the fancy cars parked in the crappy condos were visiting a friend.