What Are The Best Health Insurance Options?

[DD13]

I have been with "April Mobilite" for two years

I had an operation which was quoted 125,000 baht

the final amount due was 153,000 baht

They paid up immediately

[hotandhumid]

I have been with William Russell for 2 years (bronze plan) but have decided I'm going to call it a day now. They are very good IMO and never had a problem with them paying out, but their premiums go up every year, plus I want to include the wife and my 2 daughters too. It's just getting too expensive.

I am leaning towards Allianz through AA Insure too. Looks like very competitive pricing, my only gripe is that it only appears to be medical cover, so if you get hurt on the roads you are not covered?? I assume that would cost more?

As mentioned I am here most of the time so not fussed about international insurance although the one with Allianz does cover you globally apart from a few regions.

[Godfree]

IM me and I'll send you a report we prepared for the Chiang Mai Expats' club. It covers all the options.

[bobobo]

If Your'e over 60 and want a new insurance they don't even speak to You I'm afraid...

[Clipper747]

Hello maybe this site can help you, I have a policy with seven corners, they have many options to choose from. You can get a instant quote and purchase right online I find the rates very affordable . Hope this helps.

www.expathealthasia.com

Mod Edit: Referral link removed. Naughty-naughty!

[joker7]

As far as I know Bupa will always offer you cover if you join and renew every year before the age of 61.

AIA will stop coverage for you when you reach 80. Just when you need it most I would imagine.

[sojourner007]

I'm not sure if medical insurance represents a good value for money for long-term expats.

In regards to hospital medical care in this country money will certainly get you significantly more comfortable stay but not a significantly better standard of treatment.

I've been living in Bangkok and Pattaya for 11 years in total and I come from a Western country. In comparison with Western hospitals and Western physicians my experience of Pattaya hospital medical services includes a long list of:

- gaps in knowledge and experience of local medical professionals,

- dubious lab results that suggest a need for medical treatment but which come completely normal when repeated in my home country,

- unnecessary expensive diagnostic procedures,

- diagnosis of various ailments which are not found when checked by a doctor in my home country,

- prescription of expensive hospital medications which have not been approved in Western countries because of doubts about their risks.In addtion, these medications, or their generic equivalents, can often be bought at an ordinary pharmacy for a fraction of the price.

A good example of the last type is the story that happened to my friend just recently visiting Pattaya. He did not feel well one day and went to the Memorial hospital for a consulation. The doctor sent him for a blood test and then gravely pronounced that my friend had sodium deficiency and prescribed expensive sodium-containing supplements. Total bill was around 2000 baht. The tablets, as my friend discovered later, basically contained sodium chloride, the ordinary table salt.

Most doctors here do not keep their professional skills up to date by reading professional research publications and attending overseas conferences. There is a lot of "in Thailand it is different" attitude to treatment and choice of medication. Even in the West provincial hospitals have lower standards than those in large cities. Pattaya is a provincial town and the standards of medical specialists here are much lower than in Bangkok. Another point to make is that many specialists working in Pattaya private hospitals also work in governments hospitals like the Queen Sirikit hospital in Sattahip. So you will not necessarily get a better doctor by going to a private hospital. If anything, staying in an expensive private hospital here exposes you to more risk of unecessary treatment, which could even be harmful, because of the pressure on the doctors from the hospital management to generate business.

I found that only some very large private hospitals in Bangkok like Bumrungrad and some non-profit ones like Bangkok Christian hospital and Saint Louis Hospital are not trying to press more medical services on you and seem to be much more honest and professional. This is probably because they have a very large number of patients and plenty of business and do not focus on wringing out the last baht out of each customer like smaller hospitals in Pattaya. I have no doubt that if possible any serious operation or treatment is better done in your home country, if it has Western standard medical system. Even in case of suddeen illness if you're still mobile the best thing to do is to hop on a plane home.

I do not recommend anyone over 70 to live in Thailand. In case of a heart attack or stroke you will have much better chance of recovery if treated in a Western hospital.

As this article suggests Thai government will foot the bill in case you are injured in a car accident:

So even in very unlikely road medical emergencies one does not really need a medical insurance in Thailand. That leaves only other medical emergencies, like stroke, heart attack, appendicitis, etc. uncovered. In Thailand in some cases private hospitals have to treat you in emergency even if you do not have medical cover or proof of funds, for example if you happen to fall ill at an international aiport. In any case, even without any private medical insurance, it seems an expat will get an emergency treatment, most likely at a government hospital. One could perhaps argue here that a government hospital is likely to have more experience in standard emergency treatment than a private hospital and the basic procedures in that area won't be significantly worse than in the private sector. So in emergencies we will be taken care of whether we have or don't have an insurance policy.

But what will happen afterwards, if we survive the treatment ( ) but don't have the means to pay for it? It seems nothing drastic or dramatic according to this thread:

and this article: http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-from-news/217882/destitute-foreigners-and-thailand-hospitals .

And here is just another recent thread on the same insurance topic:

[hotandhumid]

I'm not sure if medical insurance represents a good value for money for long-term expats.

In regards to hospital medical care in this country money will certainly get you significantly more comfortable stay but not a significantly better standard of treatment.

I've been living in Bangkok and Pattaya for 11 years in total and I come from a Western country. In comparison with Western hospitals and Western physicians my experience of Pattaya hospital medical services includes a long list of:

- gaps in knowledge and experience of local medical professionals,

- dubious lab results that suggest a need for medical treatment but which come completely normal when repeated in my home country,

- unnecessary expensive diagnostic procedures,

- diagnosis of various ailments which are not found when checked by a doctor in my home country,

- prescription of expensive hospital medications which have not been approved in Western countries because of doubts about their risks.In addtion, these medications, or their generic equivalents, can often be bought at an ordinary pharmacy for a fraction of the price.

A good example of the last type is the story that happened to my friend just recently visiting Pattaya. He did not feel well one day and went to the Memorial hospital for a consulation. The doctor sent him for a blood test and then gravely pronounced that my friend had sodium deficiency and prescribed expensive sodium-containing supplements. Total bill was around 2000 baht. The tablets, as my friend discovered later, basically contained sodium chloride, the ordinary table salt.

Most doctors here do not keep their professional skills up to date by reading professional research publications and attending overseas conferences. There is a lot of "in Thailand it is different" attitude to treatment and choice of medication. Even in the West provincial hospitals have lower standards than those in large cities. Pattaya is a provincial town and the standards of medical specialists here are much lower than in Bangkok. Another point to make is that many specialists working in Pattaya private hospitals also work in governments hospitals like the Queen Sirikit hospital in Sattahip. So you will not necessarily get a better doctor by going to a private hospital. If anything, staying in an expensive private hospital here exposes you to more risk of unecessary treatment, which could even be harmful, because of the pressure on the doctors from the hospital management to generate business.

I found that only some very large private hospitals in Bangkok like Bumrungrad and some non-profit ones like Bangkok Christian hospital and Saint Louis Hospital are not trying to press more medical services on you and seem to be much more honest and professional. This is probably because they have a very large number of patients and plenty of business and do not focus on wringing out the last baht out of each customer like smaller hospitals in Pattaya. I have no doubt that if possible any serious operation or treatment is better done in your home country, if it has Western standard medical system. Even in case of suddeen illness if you're still mobile the best thing to do is to hop on a plane home.

I do not recommend anyone over 70 to live in Thailand. In case of a heart attack or stroke you will have much better chance of recovery if treated in a Western hospital.

As this article suggests Thai government will foot the bill in case you are injured in a car accident:

http://www.thaivisa....rance-thailand/

So even in very unlikely road medical emergencies one does not really need a medical insurance in Thailand. That leaves only other medical emergencies, like stroke, heart attack, appendicitis, etc. uncovered. In Thailand in some cases private hospitals have to treat you in emergency even if you do not have medical cover or proof of funds, for example if you happen to fall ill at an international aiport. In any case, even without any private medical insurance, it seems an expat will get an emergency treatment, most likely at a government hospital. One could perhaps argue here that a government hospital is likely to have more experience in standard emergency treatment than a private hospital and the basic procedures in that area won't be significantly worse than in the private sector. So in emergencies we will be taken care of whether we have or don't have an insurance policy.

But what will happen afterwards, if we survive the treatment ( ) but don't have the means to pay for it? It seems nothing drastic or dramatic according to this thread: http://www.thaivisa....hospital-bills/

and this article: http://www.bangkokpo...iland-hospitals .

And here is just another recent thread on the same insurance topic: http://www.thaivisa....e-for-a-farang/

Sorry but what utter nonsense, all you have done there is just a bit of thai bashing. The standard of treatement in thailand generally is very good IMO.

Besides, when you say 'hop on a plane home' have you seen how much air fares are back to the west? in some cases more than you would pay for insurance.

[micky1965]

i had a car accident and done over 1 million baht in a government hospital my advise is get the insurance .. to late for me they won't touch me now wish i had it tho but kept on putting it off thinking nothing would ever happen to me ...

[jingjoe8]

Good thread.

I can't face paying the premiums, plus I've not been near a docter or had an operation in about 35 years (broken arm playing hockey at school): so I'm going to risk it and not take out any cover.

What I have done is set-up a savings account in Thailand (local bank) and I'm going to put in about 1 million baht - use this as an emergency medical fund and for the retirement visa (I'm 50 next year).

I guess if I develop a chronic illness I'll go back to the UK.

Edit: I am going to start annual medical screening next year - preferably without the prostrate check.

Mate don't worry too much about the prostrate check...its a blood test now...they only put the finger up the toot if blood test comes back positive....or you are very hansum man!!!!

[crazykopite]

I have very good accident insurance which costs very little if I am ill I go to my local Thai hospital have check up twice a year When the man upstairs calls me home then I will go as I have no desire to be a burden on anyone . Should I need a life saving op I have a good isa /investment fund to take care of the unexpected However I hope that one day this fund will not be for me but my two grand children. I have had two ops in 61 years and both were injuries related to Military Service fingers crossed I will live for many more years to come no bad habits like drinking and smoking Live for today not for tomorrow !!!!!!

[crazykopite]

i had a car accident and done over 1 million baht in a government hospital my advise is get the insurance .. to late for me they won't touch me now wish i had it tho but kept on putting it off thinking nothing would ever happen to me ...

Sorry about your accident but did you not have top insurance with your car insurance company there are major insurance companies world wide who cover you in Thailand please do not tell me you had the bog standard thai insurance and on top of this every bank in Thailand offers pretty good accident insurance Hope you are getting better but have to say I would have no complaints going to my local hospital for treatment.

[pattayadingo]

Of course, if a Farang is administered to a "Farang-Hospital", and it appears that he is "on his own" without Thai Family connection, they will try to throw the financial book at him. Sad but true.

In my case, I wear always a necklace that indicates that no decisions or actions shall be taken on my behalf, unless my Wife and/or my Thai-Kids are contacted and directly involved. They can be reached 24 hours a day.

2 of my kids have a law-degree and they would know readily how to deal with potential "Highway-Robbery-Attempts" of any hospital administration.

But, like mentioned above, if the Farang is "on his own" and has no Family-Backing, this is probably the worst situation a Farang can find himself in here in Thailand. (With or without insurance,) because the insurance will also soon discover, if a patient is laying helplessly in a hospital bed without external help or not.

Shakespeare: To pay or not to pay. This goes especially for "International" Health Insurance Companies that have their seat in the Cayman-Islands or god knows where ! Know what I mean ?

Cheers.

Actually, I had a Thai with me when I attended the hospital and it was she who took me to the local government hospital. She and her family are not exactly poor and without some very good connections either. So it had nothing at all to do with having 'family backing' as you would notice if you read others comments on similar incidents at that particular hospital.

[crazykopite]

I agree with londoedan. I have never been near a doctor in 40 years so rather than pay 75,000 baht health insurance i will save it. Over 13 years that's 1 million baht saved which would cover all but the major illnesses. If i get anything too serious go back to the UK. OK it's a bit of a risk but i wouldn't want to pay a bundle in insurance and find that when i need it they don't pay out.

That would last about 10 days if you were unfortunate enough to have an accident and ended up in ICU

Thats about the going rate in Europe but not Thailand. Tell us what Hospital in Thailand would charge this kind of amount, so we can all avoid this particular hospital !

Cheers.

Check out this topic http://www.thaivisa....ngkok hospital (and that was only for a broken toe!!) many more topics on the same sort of prices if you use the search function. Problem is, if you had a serious accident, you would not have much choice of what hospital you landed in, and a spell in ICU will be far more costly than that for a broken toe.

I personally know of one Belgian man that was admitted to ICU in one of the supposedly cheaper hospitals in the area and his bill was 1.3M for two weeks stay, his sister flew over from Belgium to pay the hospital bill and took him home from the hospital as there was nothing more they could do, he died 3 days later. Scary prices.

Insurance is a must here, in my opinion anyway.

A neighbour who had to go into Bangkok hospital ( private ) for his rumbling appendix told me the insurance bill was in the region of 450,000 for 7 days.

I rang the same hospital and asked how much to have my appendix removed they asked if I was insured I said no and they quoted 50,000 bt which include a 3 night stay

As far as I am concerned Private hospitals rip off the insurance companies big time hence the heavy cost to insure Also with BUPA if you take out the insurance in Thailand they will not return you back to you own country they only rtepaturate you to the country where the insurance was taken out !!!!!

[DMC1]

I have MedicareUK but it is done through our company in BKK for the expat employees. I believe it costs around 35-40K baht per year and a very good plan. The Thai employees are insured by Aviva.

[londoedan]

Good thread.

I can't face paying the premiums, plus I've not been near a docter or had an operation in about 35 years (broken arm playing hockey at school): so I'm going to risk it and not take out any cover.

What I have done is set-up a savings account in Thailand (local bank) and I'm going to put in about 1 million baht - use this as an emergency medical fund and for the retirement visa (I'm 50 next year).

I guess if I develop a chronic illness I'll go back to the UK.

Edit: I am going to start annual medical screening next year - preferably without the prostrate check.

Mate don't worry too much about the prostrate check...its a blood test now...they only put the finger up the toot if blood test comes back positive....or you are very hansum man!!!!

Well I reckon I've had both types in the last year or so - and I know which I prefer - I couldn't look the doctor in the eye on the way out of the surgery.

[sojourner007]

Sorry but what utter nonsense, all you have done there is just a bit of thai bashing. The standard of treatement in thailand generally is very good IMO.

Besides, when you say 'hop on a plane home' have you seen how much air fares are back to the west? in some cases more than you would pay for insurance.

It seems unlikely that standards of medical professionals in Thailand are that good when the educational system is that poor:

Thai education standards 'in free fall' http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Thai-education-standards-in-free-fall-30184507.html

As for general quality of health system in Thailand it is certainly a way down the list in comparison with developed countries:

number 47 in WHO health system ranking and life expectancy rank 111 out of 190.

Here is also an interesting article which suggests that public hospitals in Thailand have better reputation than private ones (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10501601, Patient satisfaction in Bangkok: the impact of hospital ownership and patient

payment status:

"Clear and significant differences emerged in patient satisfaction between groups of hospitals with different ownership.

Non-profit hospitals were most highly rated for both inpatient and outpatient care. For inpatient care public hospitals had

higher levels of satisfaction amongst clientele than private for-profit hospitals. For example 76% of inpatients at public

hospitals said they would recommend the facility to others compared with 59% of inpatients at private for-profit hospitals."

[Satcommlee]

I'm not sure I believe that all hospitals rip off all insurance companies, Why bite the hand that feeds you. With BUPA, their partner hospital for Pattaya is the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital, this is a status that no hospital would want to lose, surely?

I'm not sure I like this idea of keeping money in the bank or having investments, because that cash is not going to do you much good if you are carted in by ambulance and are unconscious or even in a coma.. That is why I like the piece of mind of having my BUPA membership card in my wallet at all times.

The additional stress of being told you have to somehow at 3am on a Sunday Morning have to come up with a 100K deposit could be enough to finish off many a cardiac case.

With regards to grumbling appendix, I had the same operation at BPH and insurance was billed 147k THB.

[hotandhumid]

I'm not sure I believe that all hospitals rip off all insurance companies, Why bite the hand that feeds you. With BUPA, their partner hospital for Pattaya is the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital, this is a status that no hospital would want to lose, surely?

I'm not sure I like this idea of keeping money in the bank or having investments, because that cash is not going to do you much good if you are carted in by ambulance and are unconscious or even in a coma.. That is why I like the piece of mind of having my BUPA membership card in my wallet at all times.

The additional stress of being told you have to somehow at 3am on a Sunday Morning have to come up with a 100K deposit could be enough to finish off many a cardiac case.

With regards to grumbling appendix, I had the same operation at BPH and insurance was billed 147k THB.

I agree with you. I know many people here who are one accident/iliness away from going to the wall.

Having good health insurance is a huge peace of mind IMO. And I don't like paying for it either.

[JanKlaasen]

A neighbour who had to go into Bangkok hospital ( private ) for his rumbling appendix told me the insurance bill was in the region of 450,000 for 7 days.

I rang the same hospital and asked how much to have my appendix removed they asked if I was insured I said no and they quoted 50,000 bt which include a 3 night stay

As far as I am concerned Private hospitals rip off the insurance companies big time hence the heavy cost to insure Also with BUPA if you take out the insurance in Thailand they will not return you back to you own country they only rtepaturate you to the country where the insurance was taken out !!!!!

I'm not sure if they rip off the insurance, and i'm sure no fanboy of BPH, but when you're insured they quote the prices for the best treatment.

When you ask for an uninsured quote you will get the price for a lower standard treatment,shared room, probably no caviar for dinner.

[JSixpack]

In my case, I wear always a necklace that indicates that no decisions or actions shall be taken on my behalf, unless my Wife and/or my Thai-Kids are contacted and directly involved. They can be reached 24 hours a day.

Sounds good. Combine that with your patient ID card from your cheap local government hospital and you're set.

I do carry my Banglamung Hospital and Queen Sirikit cards displayed prominently in my wallet. Maybe I should add instructions in Thai to send me to either. I hide my Bangkok Pattaya Hospital card at home.

[petercouz]

Good thread.

I can't face paying the premiums, plus I've not been near a docter or had an operation in about 35 years (broken arm playing hockey at school): so I'm going to risk it and not take out any cover.

What I have done is set-up a savings account in Thailand (local bank) and I'm going to put in about 1 million baht - use this as an emergency medical fund and for the retirement visa (I'm 50 next year).

I guess if I develop a chronic illness I'll go back to the UK.

Edit: I am going to start annual medical screening next year - preferably without the prostrate check.

Unless your National Insurance is well paid up you will not be able to get your free health cover in the uK, they are closing all these loop holes now - and by the way it is 'prostate' not prostrate - prostrate means lying flat out on the ground......

[hotandhumid]

Good thread.

I can't face paying the premiums, plus I've not been near a docter or had an operation in about 35 years (broken arm playing hockey at school): so I'm going to risk it and not take out any cover.

What I have done is set-up a savings account in Thailand (local bank) and I'm going to put in about 1 million baht - use this as an emergency medical fund and for the retirement visa (I'm 50 next year).

I guess if I develop a chronic illness I'll go back to the UK.

Edit: I am going to start annual medical screening next year - preferably without the prostrate check.

Unless your National Insurance is well paid up you will not be able to get your free health cover in the uK, they are closing all these loop holes now - and by the way it is 'prostate' not prostrate - prostrate means lying flat out on the ground......

Yes, hence the word 'prostitute'

I'm not suprised if it is true what you say about the free NHS, but I would imagine it is dealt with on a case by case basis...eg, what is the cut off for non payment of NI...a year? 2 years? 5 years? 10?? What is 'well paid up' You see my point.

[londoedan]

Good thread.

I can't face paying the premiums, plus I've not been near a docter or had an operation in about 35 years (broken arm playing hockey at school): so I'm going to risk it and not take out any cover.

What I have done is set-up a savings account in Thailand (local bank) and I'm going to put in about 1 million baht - use this as an emergency medical fund and for the retirement visa (I'm 50 next year).

I guess if I develop a chronic illness I'll go back to the UK.

Edit: I am going to start annual medical screening next year - preferably without the prostrate check.

Unless your National Insurance is well paid up you will not be able to get your free health cover in the uK, they are closing all these loop holes now - and by the way it is 'prostate' not prostrate - prostrate means lying flat out on the ground......

My NI contributions are OK, apart for the last 2-3 years, so I reckon I'll be OK.

And thanks for pointing out the spelling mistake - I won't make that one again .

[chas39]

May I just clarify the situation with regard to eligibility for NHS treatment.

If you are in the UK and need accident or emergency treatment you will get it free. Whatever your status.

Other treatment is free if you are normally resident in the UK. It has nothing to do with payment, or not, of NI contributions nor taxes.

The Citizens Advice Bureau website has details of this - as do many other sites.

You need to check the definition of 'Residency'.

Technically, more than 3 months outside the UK means you are not eligible for free treatment. I think, with some exceptions for UK Pensioners who live in the EU.

You will hear 'Well I got this treatment ..' .etc, but these are tales, or by luck or by 'careful management' shall we say.

So you need to be careful not to automatically assume you'll get free treatment on return based on ' I've paid my taxes or NI contributions'.

Please don't shoot the messanger

[Phil Conners]

Good thread.

I can't face paying the premiums, plus I've not been near a docter or had an operation in about 35 years (broken arm playing hockey at school): so I'm going to risk it and not take out any cover.

What I have done is set-up a savings account in Thailand (local bank) and I'm going to put in about 1 million baht - use this as an emergency medical fund and for the retirement visa (I'm 50 next year).

I guess if I develop a chronic illness I'll go back to the UK.

Edit: I am going to start annual medical screening next year - preferably without the prostrate check.

Mate don't worry too much about the prostrate check...its a blood test now...they only put the finger up the toot if blood test comes back positive....or you are very hansum man!!!!

Actually that is not correct, they still do the "digital" test. Anyway, that is nothing, try to Google the tests for colorectal cancer.

Regarding health insurance (and all other forms of insurance) I just refer to one of the wealthiest men in the world, Mr. Warren Buffett who made most of his fortune investing in insurance. As with gambling, "the house" always wins.

[patjk]

I am a 23 year old male from the US who will be living in Thailand. I looked into Bupa and prices look reasonable. Are they reliable? I plan on canceling my US insurance plan when I'm over there as there is surely a plan better suited there. Any suggestions for someone my age would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Satcommlee]

I am a 23 year old male from the US who will be living in Thailand. I looked into Bupa and prices look reasonable. Are they reliable? I plan on canceling my US insurance plan when I'm over there as there is surely a plan better suited there. Any suggestions for someone my age would be much appreciated. Thanks.

At your age the premiums are not going to be through the roof.

There is BUPA Thailand and BUPA international... I choose BUPA international as I've heard not great things about BUPA Thailand.

BUPA Thailand have a reluctance to authorise treatment out of hours, and this was the case when I needed a CT scan which the hospital wanted me to pay for as they told me that BUPA was not open.. Although BUPA Thailand acts for BUPA international.. A quick call to BUPA international 24 hour line had the situation sorted and authority faxed in 10 minutes.