Norwegian Man, Thai Woman Killed In Chon Buri Road Accident

[ALFREDO]

A bad accident, I very sorry for the young girl.

Helmets, really ones, not widely used -salad bowls- could have helped, at least the young woman.

If the guy was drunk, had been drinking alc.?

I would say, a Norwegen out, on the way home at 4:30 AM, a good chance he was.

Irresponsible! Special not alone on the motorbike.

The age difference alone, really not important!

That she was sooo young.

Yes, to young to be around a Falang as a working girl.

A good chance that she was one, but she was over the legal limit of consent in many countries.

So, I believe some outbursts here are over the top and a bit unreasonable.

Not enough reason to shout, hang him higher!

We are in TH and SEA and the watches running here a bit different!

If some of you like it or not!

So change it and wipe out the Thai Sex trade if you can!

I just read, that the new Manager of the Salzburger Music Festspiele in Austria,

before he was same style Manager in Zuerich,

has, with 69 a 25 year young Brazilian Ex Sex Modell as GF and presents her everywhere.

They are together already 4-5 years.

She is his Big Love. ;-)

He is still married to his Swiss wife

and the Brazilian lady is still married to a man working as a Photograph, for Playboy ect.

He is now 75.

He married her out of the slums from Manaus, when she was 16!

So, that time, he was 66! That are 50 years difference!

Nobody grills that people, special the Swiss Photograph guy! ;-)

And I think, she has, had a good life!

Google! -Intendant Salzburger Festspiele Bradilianische Freundin- The Lady is really Mmmmh!

[jcw]

Anyone actually know if she was a "bar girl" and from which bar did she "work"?

[ozziebloke]

A bad accident, I very sorry for the young girl.

Helmets, really ones, not widely used -salad bowls- could have helped, at least the young woman.

If the guy was drunk, had been drinking alc.?

I would say, a Norwegen out, on the way home at 4:30 AM, a good chance he was.

Irresponsible! Special not alone on the motorbike.

The age difference alone, really not important!

That she was sooo young.

Yes, to young to be around a Falang as a working girl.

A good chance that she was one, but she was over the legal limit of consent in many countries.

So, I believe some outbursts here are over the top and a bit unreasonable.

Not enough reason to shout, hang him higher!

We are in TH and SEA and the watches running here a bit different!

If some of you like it or not!

So change it and wipe out the Thai Sex trade if you can!

I just read, that the new Manager of the Salzburger Music Festspiele in Austria,

before he was same style Manager in Zuerich,

has, with 69 a 25 year young Brazilian Ex Sex Modell as GF and presents her everywhere.

They are together already 4-5 years.

She is his Big Love. ;-)

He is still married to his Swiss wife

and the Brazilian lady is still married to a man working as a Photograph, for Playboy ect.

He is now 75.

He married her out of the slums from Manaus, when she was 16!

So, that time, he was 66! That are 50 years difference!

Nobody grills that people, special the Swiss Photograph guy! ;-)

And I think, she has, had a good life!

Google! -Intendant Salzburger Festspiele Bradilianische Freundin- The Lady is really Mmmmh!

25 is alot different to 16! and I think most if not everyone on TV know nothing about this! So why do you think that anyone thinks your story is acceptable ?

[Unkomoncents]

Some posts that had confusing methods of quoting another member have been edited to correct the errors. In the tool bar above when posting is a Quote function. Copy and paste the content you wish to respond to in your reply window, highlight the content, then click on the Quote icon in the tool bar above. This would help to alleviate confusion as to who said what.

Thanks

Sorry Ozziebloke. I misquoted you. I was trying to address the "gentleman" you were responding to.

[ratcatcher]

Anyone actually know if she was a "bar girl" and from which bar did she "work"?

Maybe "After School"?

[maidu]

.....But he lost control on the 500-meter long curve approaching the bridge.

- from Pattaya Daily News

That's a total assumption. I drive daily in Thailand, and very often (minute by minute) Thai drivers will do nutzoid things on streets. If I wasn't a very careful and defensive driver, I'd have been wiped out, any one of thousands of times.

It's more likely it was 'hit and run'

Edited August 14, 2012 by maidu

[Fozfromoz]

RIP

Please, if there is nothing to say, do not post anything. If every member would post the same, with no information, and nothing to learn, ThaiVisa would be abandoned by most members.

Maybe Thaivisa could have a seperate section where those that regularly feel the need to offer their condolences can do so among like minded individuals.

Could call it the RIPPER forum.

[ratcatcher]

RIP

Please, if there is nothing to say, do not post anything. If every member would post the same, with no information, and nothing to learn, ThaiVisa would be abandoned by most members.

Maybe Thaivisa could have a seperate section where those that regularly feel the need to offer their condolences can do so among like minded individuals.

Could call it the RIPPER forum.

R.I.P. Racing In Pattaya?

[Ripple]

Or Ripple forum perhaps

[ttelise]

It's not "age discrimination" it's abuse. The man is old enough to be her grandfather. An equitable relationship is impossible. The intelectual boundaries insurmountable. Her father was probably young enough to be his son. We scoff when a rich westerner marries a young model but 17 is a child. In bed with grandpa is no place to be. It is sick and it is disgusting.

First of all it IS age discrimination. The age means nothing, as long as it is within the law and consented.

Your assertion that an 'equitable' (fair or reasonable) relationship is impossible is nothing more than your own opinion and has absolutely nothing to justify itself. Insurmountable intellectual boundaries? Oh now come on, your deciding that a girl of 16 cannot be intellectually equal with an adult of 20, 40 or even 80 is a shocking insult towards human development and capability. You have nothing to support these outrageous remarks other than your charged disrespect of this mans relationship.

It is disgusting when you try to reduce this to an innocent young lady who fell victim to an evil old grandpa who just wants to take advantage of her.

She was with him through her own consent.

Imagine this analogy. I go and take a gun and murder someone. Do I blame the gun maker, the store owner or even the gun itself?

No, I can attribute the severity of my crime, at least somewhat to the availability and ease of access that I have to firearms, but in the end it was me who chose to take it and let loose.

The girl has an old man but has infinite free choice of whether or not to get on the bike , or even be with the old man in the first place. Unless she was held against her will and forced on to the bike, she has a natural amount of blame on her shoulders.

Also, if I may be as brave as to reassert a point of an above poster, sixTEEN or sevenTEEN are teen aged young adults, approaching the western definition of what an 'adult' is, pertaining to age.

I find it disconcerting that you are a teacher placed in a position of trust with young children who are not mature enough to form consent to sexual relations with old nasty sick men. A 52 year old even looking at a 16 year old sexually and wanting that 16 year old is wired wrong and a danger to society.

[gohmer]

Sorry, no helmet, no respect. Drinking and driving = stupid. Drinking and driving with no helmet = extremely stupid.

Not to stir the pot, but where would the likely places be that a foreign man (of any age) would find a girl (of any age) at 4:30am for a bike ride? The statistical odds are at some bar or equivalent establishment (not definite, but statistically probable). Therefore, regardless of the perceived freakiness of the age gap, and the logical assumption that a 16 year old girl is incapable of making a conscious choice and truly vulnerable, where the F was her parents at that time of the morning preventing her from being in one of the statistically likely places this man might have met her? If the parents were void, then she might have had enough of her own responsibility in being in this type of establishment (presumed based on statistical probability) in the first place. Just saying she was a helpless victim and he was in complete control of her to do as he wished, is shear ridiculousness when the odds are the facts might be very different.

Also, how many of you posting here have had daughters of this age. I have had 3 and I can tell you that despite what is law, these young girls are not close to being stupid or naive and know what the heck is up. The only reason there are laws about this at this age is to give them more time to practice this newly learned knowledge in responsible ways, it doesn't take away their responsibility if they choose to be stupid.

Edited August 14, 2012 by gohmer

[Scully]

It's not "age discrimination" it's abuse. The man is old enough to be her grandfather. An equitable relationship is impossible. The intelectual boundaries insurmountable. Her father was probably young enough to be his son. We scoff when a rich westerner marries a young model but 17 is a child. In bed with grandpa is no place to be. It is sick and it is disgusting.

First of all it IS age discrimination. The age means nothing, as long as it is within the law and consented.

Your assertion that an 'equitable' (fair or reasonable) relationship is impossible is nothing more than your own opinion and has absolutely nothing to justify itself. Insurmountable intellectual boundaries? Oh now come on, your deciding that a girl of 16 cannot be intellectually equal with an adult of 20, 40 or even 80 is a shocking insult towards human development and capability. You have nothing to support these outrageous remarks other than your charged disrespect of this mans relationship.

It is disgusting when you try to reduce this to an innocent young lady who fell victim to an evil old grandpa who just wants to take advantage of her.

She was with him through her own consent.

Imagine this analogy. I go and take a gun and murder someone. Do I blame the gun maker, the store owner or even the gun itself?

No, I can attribute the severity of my crime, at least somewhat to the availability and ease of access that I have to firearms, but in the end it was me who chose to take it and let loose.

The girl has an old man but has infinite free choice of whether or not to get on the bike , or even be with the old man in the first place. Unless she was held against her will and forced on to the bike, she has a natural amount of blame on her shoulders.

Also, if I may be as brave as to reassert a point of an above poster, sixTEEN or sevenTEEN are teen aged young adults, approaching the western definition of what an 'adult' is, pertaining to age.

I find it disconcerting that you are a teacher placed in a position of trust with young children who are not mature enough to form consent to sexual relations with old nasty sick men. A 52 year old even looking at a 16 year old sexually and wanting that 16 year old is wired wrong and a danger to society.

Disconcerting ?

I admire you on your self control. If he really is a teacher then my choice of words would be far stronger. Being a teacher he should know better than most that young girls maybe physically developed but certainly not mentally.

How people can try and justify an old man being with a 16 year old girl is beyond me. In my book it is a very cruel thing to do to a child.

[Jim walker]

Since the topic has changed to age gaps Rupert Murdoch and his young wife Wendi almost 40 years age gap they had a kid a couple of years ago no one seemed to bother about the age gap or that he was a grandfather already, you are only as old as the thing you are feeling so Rod Stewart says.

I will just stick with my old Thai wife for a few years yet only 22years age gap

[metisdead]

A post containing profanity has been removed:

3) Not to post in a manner that is vulgar, obscene or profane.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

[Nisa]

Since the topic has changed to age gaps Rupert Murdoch and his young wife Wendi almost 40 years age gap they had a kid a couple of years ago no one seemed to bother about the age gap or that he was a grandfather already, you are only as old as the thing you are feeling so Rod Stewart says.

I will just stick with my old Thai wife for a few years yet only 22years age gap

As far as I know, nobody is saying there is something wrong with age difference (haven't read the latest posts) when both are adults as with Rupert marrying a 30-year old women. However there can be no denying there would be a huge scandal if he was screwing around with a child under 18 let alone one that turned 16 less than a month ago.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Nisa

[indyuk]

Such a difficult situation for everyone. I feel shame and sadness for Khun Somyings parents and can't imagine how shocked and disappointed another foreign family are at hearing that their loved one's holiday in Pattaya has resulted with his death in embarrassing circumstances.

[Nisa]

It's not "age discrimination" it's abuse. The man is old enough to be her grandfather. An equitable relationship is impossible. The intelectual boundaries insurmountable. Her father was probably young enough to be his son. We scoff when a rich westerner marries a young model but 17 is a child. In bed with grandpa is no place to be. It is sick and it is disgusting.

First of all it IS age discrimination. The age means nothing, as long as it is within the law and consented.

Your assertion that an 'equitable' (fair or reasonable) relationship is impossible is nothing more than your own opinion and has absolutely nothing to justify itself. Insurmountable intellectual boundaries? Oh now come on, your deciding that a girl of 16 cannot be intellectually equal with an adult of 20, 40 or even 80 is a shocking insult towards human development and capability. You have nothing to support these outrageous remarks other than your charged disrespect of this mans relationship.

It is disgusting when you try to reduce this to an innocent young lady who fell victim to an evil old grandpa who just wants to take advantage of her.

She was with him through her own consent.

Imagine this analogy. I go and take a gun and murder someone. Do I blame the gun maker, the store owner or even the gun itself?

No, I can attribute the severity of my crime, at least somewhat to the availability and ease of access that I have to firearms, but in the end it was me who chose to take it and let loose.

The girl has an old man but has infinite free choice of whether or not to get on the bike , or even be with the old man in the first place. Unless she was held against her will and forced on to the bike, she has a natural amount of blame on her shoulders.

Also, if I may be as brave as to reassert a point of an above poster, sixTEEN or sevenTEEN are teen aged young adults, approaching the western definition of what an 'adult' is, pertaining to age.

I find it disconcerting that you are a teacher placed in a position of trust with young children who are not mature enough to form consent to sexual relations with old nasty sick men. A 52 year old even looking at a 16 year old sexually and wanting that 16 year old is wired wrong and a danger to society.

Disconcerting ?

I admire you on your self control. If he really is a teacher then my choice of words would be far stronger. Being a teacher he should know better than most that young girls maybe physically developed but certainly not mentally.

How people can try and justify an old man being with a 16 year old girl is beyond me. In my book it is a very cruel thing to do to a child.

If he is a teacher (i missed that) than his whole thing about UK law is mute because the age of consent is 16 but if you are in a position of trust (teacher) it is 18.

[KeyserSoze01]

So many assumptions, so little time. Yet another day in Thailand.

[Dazzletoad]

Thai people are often poorly educated and impoverished. Responsibility?! Taught in Thailand?! I would refute your argument on the basis of the scissors alone. I know of no kindergartens that present their charges with full scissors like those used by a tailor, etc. They are usually plastic/safety-enhanced and are very small, for the exact reason that they CANNOT be trusted to use such objects responsibly. I expect that next you'll be suggesting that twelve-year-olds should be able to drive cars if they are "taught responsibility"; even though every statistic known to man suggests that when you drop the driving age, accidents attributed to young people sky-rocket.

I said I would give metal, sharp scissors to 7 year olds, not kindergarteners. Also I said I would give it as well as teaching responsibility, don't misquote me or quote out of context.

It's not "age discrimination" it's abuse. The man is old enough to be her grandfather. An equitable relationship is impossible. The intelectual boundaries insurmountable. Her father was probably young enough to be his son. We scoff when a rich westerner marries a young model but 17 is a child. In bed with grandpa is no place to be. It is sick and it is disgusting.

First of all it IS age discrimination. The age means nothing, as long as it is within the law and consented.

Once again I must go back to your post of your claiming it legal in some countries to have sex (marry) with 6-year olds. Based on your using the law to defend a 50+ year old having sex with a child who just turns 16, I must again assume you believe it okay to have sex with 6-year olds if the laws in that country allow it. Or how about ... You have repeatedly stated your preference for 16-year olds being old enough because they can conceive. Do you not see any problem with a 50+ year old having sex with an 11 year old who has reached puberty or how about a 9-year old as long as there is no law against it?

Again another misconstrued point. I have 'repeatedly stated my preference for 16 year olds (note this non connection) being 'old enough because they can conceive'? What do you mean my preference that 16 year olds are 'old enough'? How can I prefer that someone is old enough? It is my opinion that biologically girls are ready to conceive at a lower age, but my opinion is, and note this, explicitly nowhere under the age of 16 for a girl to have sex. Now, girls can have sex and run no more health risks than the usual, disease and HIV etc.

The only real danger is children under 15 carrying babies, which is way off my point. For you to be trying to connect me to saying having sex at 6 or 9 is ok, is insanity. I told you to 'go and complain about people like muslims doing the shocking things that are paedophilia related, like having sex with children'. I condemn that as evil because, as I reiterate, girls of 6 and 9 are no where ready for such things, they are only children and way too young for that.

I wonder what kind of depravity that you hide in your incessant pushing that I am a paedophile or have those kinds of thoughts. I don't usually do this but, to get rid of any of your illusions, I am 27 and like girls around my age. I havent and wouldnt have sex with 13 or 15 year old girls. I also wouldnt go 16 here because the laws of this country are different, but my countrys law is 16. You trying to make it look like this mans defense is to justify my own wants is absurd. It proves you cannot take an objective view without trying to vilify it and paint it like some paedophile support post.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Dazzletoad

[McMagus]

Dear Dazzletoad,

What you are confusing is the legality of a sexual relationship regarding the ages of those involved and the accepted norms in society. Now don't go quoting Muslim relationships as a benchmark because in their culture it may (or may not) be deemed appropriate. In some Indian states it is also culturally appropriate to douse your new wife with kerosene and burn her if the dowry isn't high enough. My point is that in our western culture it is generally frowned upon to have this degree of age difference and it would be the same if it was an old woman with a young boy. Of course this begs the question as to why so many old guys come here ...BECAUSE THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH STUFF THAT THEY COULDN'T DO AT HOME. The word exploitation comes to mind. I can't for the life of me think of why an old man would want a relationship with a young girl. I therefore have to assume (if the reports are correct) that it was not a deep and meaningful with his significant other; rather one based on sex. If this is the case, then it may (and I stress may) be the case that she was a working girl. Should this be true then I must ask the question why would he seek out a young girl who at 17 (just) is not really mature enough to make rational and informed decisions. The great flaw in your argument is that it absolves old sex tourists and the like of taking responsibility for their actions and everything else becomes fair game.

[genetrust]

What film stars and billionaires are being talked about. I cannot think of any in modern history where people saw a rich or famous person over 50 being with a girl who just turned 16 and finding it acceptable ... especially when the guy is western and chooses a less developed nation to search out a child for sex.

Woody Allen -- rich and famous, over 50, girl from less developed nation -- was playing with his girl well before she was 16 - no one knows for sure just how old she was when it started, but..

He was something of a step-father, but never legally. (He and Farrow were never married)

After a short scandal, people found it acceptable.

More recent:

Doug Anthony Hutchison, a 51-year-old actor best known for his roles in "The Green Mile" and more recently, "LOST," announced on his website over the weekend that he married 16-year-old aspiring country singer Courtney Alexis Stodden.

Acceptable..

Second example is not from impoverished nation.. but meets other criteria.

So your argument is RUINED -- go away!

Edited August 14, 2012 by genetrust

[Dap]

RIP to the woman ,as for the stupid drunk tourist

how do you know the tourist was stupid??????

"apperared drunk and was speeding" is a fairly good start.

[TheWalkingMan]

This is another <deleted> moment... 16 year-old girlfriend?

[Dap]

RIP

Please, if there is nothing to say, do not post anything. If every member would post the same, with no information, and nothing to learn, ThaiVisa would be abandoned by most members.

You think RIP is "nothing" to say? It is most appropriate on this thread. Get a grip or don't bother posting.

[Bagwan]

Sixteen-seventeen is hardly a kiddy fiddler...but then again, you may be too old to enjoy some young loveys.

I think you mean lovelies. Where I come from a "lovey" would be an aging camp thespian.

Lovey or lovely refers to some younger thing.

In regard to the kiddy fiddling, I beg to differ. 16 years old is old enough for sex and consent in my country, England. For those who are shocked, perhaps turn your face to the middle east where it is not only legal, but practised to marry girls as young as 6 years old.

I would direct you here: http://www.foxnews.c...raped-says-mom/

The fact this 17 year old girl was with an older man is irrelevant, it is the responsibility of both parties to take precaution in their actions.

A Sixteen-Seventeen year old neither has the knowledge nor experiance or maturity to be responsible! their just starting to learn about life

Successive Thai Governments have declared otherwise. I suggest you make your case with them but I think you may be told that as a farang you don't understand. She was old enough to legally marry. Actually I agree with you but have the sense to leave law making to the elected representatives of the Thai people even if they themselves have juvenile undeveloped minds. It is their country.

One of life's great tragedies is that the young don't know or even consider just how stupid they are. Later on in life when they have travelled much further down the road they will look back and realise how idiotic they really were.

[ALFREDO]

-Ozzibloke-

Your Post from last page

Google -Alexander Pereiras-

maybe you find his story also in English.

Anyway, 16 was the Brazilian woman, now the GF if Mr.Pereiras, when she was married out of the slums if Manaus by a Swiss Photograph who was 66 years old.

So what does not fit to the ages if the people involved in the threads accident?

Did you not read all? 16 when the woman married a 50 year older man! Love?

Society from Switzerland and Austria involved, why you not believe what I wrote.

[Dazzletoad]

I'm not even going to give Thaivisa the satisfaction of removing my post as to what I think of your reasoning. It is just sickening to be honest.

A girl lets say in America or England with these countries being "first world" countries and having an educational system that might give younger people a better understanding of life and life's decisions may be ok but TIT and a 15/16 year old girl who is poor and most likely without "good" education is NOT ready to be responsible enough to be making decisions as to get on a motorbike with a guy unfamiliar with both the bike and the road. She instead "trusted" his "adult" knowledge.

And who the hell are you to diminish the mental ability of thai girls? You speak on behalf of a country of teenage girls and can attest to their mentality and critical thinking being undisciplined or non existent? That's impressive.

Maybe these girls are inexperienced, gullible or easily swayed, but I prefer not to deem them as being so stupid that they cannot think for themselves. Do less infantilizing and open your mind to the possibility that these girls might have a clue.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Dazzletoad

[Nisa]

What film stars and billionaires are being talked about. I cannot think of any in modern history where people saw a rich or famous person over 50 being with a girl who just turned 16 and finding it acceptable ... especially when the guy is western and chooses a less developed nation to search out a child for sex.

Woody Allen -- rich and famous, over 50, girl from less developed nation -- was playing with his girl well before she was 16 - no one knows for sure just how old she was when it started, but..

He was something of a step-father, but never legally. (He and Farrow were never married)

After a short scandal, people found it acceptable.

More recent:

Doug Anthony Hutchison, a 51-year-old actor best known for his roles in "The Green Mile" and more recently, "LOST," announced on his website over the weekend that he married 16-year-old aspiring country singer Courtney Alexis Stodden.

Acceptable..

Second example is not from impoverished nation.. but meets other criteria.

So your argument is RUINED -- go away!

I guess with your logic diddling your step daughter is acceptable including doing when she is under 16. Too bad you are in the vast minority to believe such things are acceptable just because people don't stay outraged decades later.

After Allen and Farrow separated, a long public legal battle for the custody of their three children began. During the proceedings, Farrow alleged that Allen had sexually molested their adopted daughter Dylan, who was then seven years old. The judge eventually concluded that the sex abuse charges were inconclusive

^[103]

but called Allen's conduct with Soon-Yi "grossly inappropriate." She called the report of the team that investigated the issue "sanitized and therefore, less credible" and added that she had "reservations about the reliability of the report."

^[104]

Farrow won custody of their children. Allen was denied visitation rights with Malone and could see Ronan only under supervision. Moses, who was then 14, chose not to see Allen

As for the other b-list guy -- it is not acceptable even though they claimed they had no sexual relations until they got married and were only legally able to get married with parental consent. It takes all kinds of parents I guess. http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/doug-hutchison-courtney-stodden-controversial-marriage-exclusive/story?id=14073130#.UCqMLD2PWSo

[Nisa]

The laws or sex in england are 16, it doesnt matter if you are a teacher, santa clause or jesus christ superstar. I will accept anyone proving me wrong on this too,

The age of consent in England and Wales is 16 regardless of sexual orientation and/or gender, as specified by the Sexual Offences Act 2003. However, if person A is over the age of 18 and is in a position of trust to person B who is under the age of 18, it is illegal for A to engage in sexual activity with B.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#England_and_Wales

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/16 & http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/22

[Banzai99]

I married a girl of 17.