Chiang Mai Tops The List In "Six Global Destinations For An Affordable Retirement"

[vagabond48]

Prices have really gone up in CM in the last 5 years. I don't know how much of that is directly attributable to a growing senior expat community with money to burn, who can afford to pay higher prices, but, teacher's salaries have remained stagnant. So, while teachers could never live like kinds in CM, now their local salaries get them only about 70% as much as they did in the past.

If you are talking about price increases in places catering to foreigners and middle class Thais perhaps, this may be true. We shop often at the large veg and fruit market by the Ping river where 99.99% of the shoppers are Thais and we have seen a very high increase in prices there too. Now, Thais making 5K to 10K a month who shop there might have something to complain about. I believe the average English teacher working about 25 - 30 hours a week is making at least 20K.

[hellodolly]

How can we keep Chiang Mai a well-kept-secret, if these sites keep blabbing ?

Highlight the negatives, make up some horrific events. Earthquakes, flooding, toxic air, rivers of blood, tuk tuk drivers.

You forgot military coup, martial law, emergency decree, curfews...

Redshirts, muggers, dengue fever ...... Loi Khro closing at midnight ....... Downtown Inn deaths ....

The list goes on almost long enough to be believable to a local resident of 6 years. Not quite there yet. To bad we don't have some jet ski's here' Or Jewelry stores.

[hellodolly]

Prices have really gone up in CM in the last 5 years. I don't know how much of that is directly attributable to a growing senior expat community with money to burn, who can afford to pay higher prices, but, teacher's salaries have remained stagnant. So, while teachers could never live like kinds in CM, now their local salaries get them only about 70% as much as they did in the past.

If you are talking about price increases in places catering to foreigners and middle class Thais perhaps, this may be true. We shop often at the large veg and fruit market by the Ping river where 99.99% of the shoppers are Thais and we have seen a very high increase in prices there too. Now, Thais making 5K to 10K a month who shop there might have something to complain about. I believe the average English teacher working about 25 - 30 hours a week is making at least 20K.

I thought they were talking about places to retire to. Prices going up have nothing to do with it happens all over the world.

[hellodolly]

How can we keep Chiang Mai a well-kept-secret, if these sites keep blabbing ?

Highlight the negatives, make up some horrific events. Earthquakes, flooding, toxic air, rivers of blood, tuk tuk drivers.

Plus to note, that we're within range of North Korea's nuclear-tipped missiles, perhaps ?

In the interests of lightening the tone of the thread a little, I can reassure other local posters that I'm currently On-Duty sitting on my front-terrace, Chang-Draught in hand & watching for the incoming missiles, and will post on this thread if i spot any suspicious mushroom-clouds or missiles coming our way !

Cue the theme to 'Dad's Army' !

Your dedication to our protection is deeply appreciated. But in the smokey season it may be hard to spot the mushroom clouds so you will have to double up on your effort to spot incoming missiles. Maybe you could get a pair of infra ray glasses.

[hellodolly]

The top teachers in Singapore and Korea who turned private earn more than the CEOs of some companies

So yes I respect it as a real job ...if u have talents and passion any vocation U take on you will make a success story out of it .

If you are mediocre or average performing you cannot fault the low pay as you are being paid for what you do or can contribute

Fact of life.

And this has what to do with retiring in Chiang Mai?

[hellodolly]

The top teachers in Singapore and Korea who turned private earn more than the CEOs of some companies

So yes I respect it as a real job ...if u have talents and passion any vocation U take on you will make a success story out of it .

If you are mediocre or average performing you cannot fault the low pay as you are being paid for what you do or can contribute

Fact of life.

The pay depends on the job, not on the ability of the teacher to contribute. The standard jobs – the ones that will get you a visa – pay a lowish salary, which is fairly standardized. For example, if you teach in a university, there's not much leeway on the pay, whether you are awesome or terrible. In fact, there's been a trend to slice teacher benefits. By your logic, all university teachers must be mediocre or less, because they aren't making a high salary.

The correlation between pay and ability just doesn't really exist. Some people are better at securing higher paying teaching jobs, but that doesn't mean they are better teachers (they may just be willing to work double the hours, or be "on call" for the boss).

Actually all though he didn't intend to do it he was saying the pay in other parts of the world is better.

[Ricardo]

Plus to note, that we're within range of North Korea's nuclear-tipped missiles, perhaps ?

In the interests of lightening the tone of the thread a little, I can reassure other local posters that I'm currently On-Duty sitting on my front-terrace, Chang-Draught in hand & watching for the incoming missiles, and will post on this thread if i spot any suspicious mushroom-clouds or missiles coming our way !

Cue the theme to 'Dad's Army' !

Your dedication to our protection is deeply appreciated. But in the smokey season it may be hard to spot the mushroom clouds so you will have to double up on your effort to spot incoming missiles. Maybe you could get a pair of infra ray glasses.

Perhaps if I double the medication ?

Or we could organise a team-effort, with a rota, and emergency-supplies, and ... and ...

But it does give me an idea, for an April Fools joke !

[CMX]

The truth about March should be almost enough to dissuade anybody from settling here, at least year-round.

Also, even without additional westerners, this city is growing apace, and Bangcockers alone will increase prices of many things - along with the usual general inflation. So it goes.

[KeyserSoze01]

The last thing Chiang Mai needs is Fox viewers.

I have to agree with you, but you have to examine the underlying problem with the media in the US. The majority of news, media and publishing companies in the US are controlled by a small group of elites which tailor the message to shape the opinions of the audience. The problem with that is that your views are formed based on massaged data, design to generate a specific response. There was a time when the news outlets reported the news and let the audience form their own opinions. Today, news and media generate the news instead of just reporting it.

[hellodolly]

The last thing Chiang Mai needs is Fox viewers.

In all fairness they can be entertaining. Where else can you get reruns of news for days on end.

And if you are a American republican it is like the bible to people of Jewish belief or the Koran to people of Islam belief.

[hellodolly]

Plus to note, that we're within range of North Korea's nuclear-tipped missiles, perhaps ?

In the interests of lightening the tone of the thread a little, I can reassure other local posters that I'm currently On-Duty sitting on my front-terrace, Chang-Draught in hand & watching for the incoming missiles, and will post on this thread if i spot any suspicious mushroom-clouds or missiles coming our way !

Cue the theme to 'Dad's Army' !

Your dedication to our protection is deeply appreciated. But in the smokey season it may be hard to spot the mushroom clouds so you will have to double up on your effort to spot incoming missiles. Maybe you could get a pair of infra ray glasses.

Perhaps if I double the medication ?

Or we could organise a team-effort, with a rota, and emergency-supplies, and ... and ...

But it does give me an idea, for an April Fools joke !

Well I would really like to say I am eagerly looking forward to it . BUT it would mean I would be six months older and that I am not eager to be.

[OldeBellPedr]

I don't know how many 'Canadian Barry's' there are in Chiang Mai , but the one I know well, is seething at the moment as his idyllic retirement is about to be cut short by the Canadian government who are currently debating a new law that would require him (and all Canadian retirees) to spend at least 6 months per year in Canada or lose their pensions. Australians already find it difficult to access their pensions if they choose to live outside Australia and Brits get their pensions frozen if they move here. It seems that the retirees home countries aren't keen to see them take their disposable income to exotic foreign locations like Chiang Mai!

[Ricardo]

But it does give me an idea, for an April Fools joke !

Well I would really like to say I am eagerly looking forward to it . BUT it would mean I would be six months older and that I am not eager to be.

Thinking positively, it means you don't get to experience the afterlife at first hand, for at least another six months !

Perhaps we might drink to this, at this year's annual TV get-together, in CM ?

While keeping an eye out for stray missiles, at the same time, naturally.

[uptheos]

Brits get their pensions frozen if they move here. It seems that the retirees home countries aren't keen to see them take their disposable income to exotic foreign locations like Chiang Mai!

Yep fully agree. It's ironic that a person from UK whose finances are not in Britain (or Thailand), could technically move back, get any pension increase + extra because they would be under the savings limit (wink wink), get a flat paid for by housing benefit, maybe claim something for any disability or carer allowance, free health care, council tax, winter fuel payment, free bus pass and prescriptions etc etc. The UK government should acknowledge these savings and unfreeze pensions. We paid our taxes and NI so we should get the same, if not more than others.

[mogoso]

I grew up in a city that Ian Fleming descibed as "the city of the newly wed and the nearly dead" St. Petersburg , Florida the shuffleboard capital of the world. Was mostly old folks then, but now it's all about youth. There are no more open spaces to the beach it's all condo and bars from Indian Rocks to Pass-a-grille. Crime is rampart and the cost of living sky rocketed. Lots of folk coming in to live and work wasn't very good to it. Now that I'm old I rather like to see lots of old people milling about

[market trader]

You see, that's the problem with blanket “objective” view points. All retirees are not all retirees, if you get my meaning. You complain about the well heeled in fine restaurants, where I might ask, are the well heeled not in fine restaurants, this is not a CM phenomenon? You have an opportunity, depending on how young (or old) you are, to build a life of joy and experience here that few others in the world ever have but, instead you choose to complain about the other guy taking an imagined future life away from you, or at least interfering in your plans with their presence.

Personally, I could give a rats ass where people retire, whether that be in CM or some other place, and how they affect my cost of living. I spend a great deal of time nickle and diming my way around so I can improve the quality of my life within my somewhat restricted income, one I am certain is lower than yours. It's actually turned into a bit of a hobby seeing how low I can go without sacrificing play time and a decent lifestyle. To spend your time complaining that it is the other guy who is making your life less, or harder, depending on your view point, is disingenuous and not particularly honest, internally speaking that is. If you're dissatisfied with your income/lifestyle and/or future prospects maybe you should try something new. No, I don't mean go away, I mean try harder. I don't know your age bracket but isn't it us old white guys who are supposed to be afraid of change? Change will happen, it always happens, prices go up, wages go down, it's a corporate/elitist driven cycle that has been around for centuries. Your wages are not stagnant because some old guy bought a condo in the west end, and I won't be brazen enough to claim I know why they're stagnant but, maybe you and your peers could do something to change that paradigm.

In the end, your objective point of view, and your simplistic catch all approach to other human beings reminds my of my very bitter and nasty dear departed mom. She complained vociferously about all those brown people taking English jobs away from the English but, as she would say, she's not a bigot, she was just looking at things objectively.

Hope you're not offended, we all have our own point of view.

That was really a lot of complaining about me. Your first mistake was to try to put words in my mouth, like that I said anything about "all retirees," which I never did. I have retired friends, and generally like older people. What I stated are facts that some of them will say themselves. Some things are generational. The older generation can retire, younger people who are working now may never have that opportunity, due to the global economic meltdown.

I just stated some simple facts. You inserted the feelings about it yourself. I'm not bothered overmuch by the circumstances, but am aware of them, and taking measures to not get the short end of the stick. That doesn't mean I can't articulate the obvious truth that a surplus of expats drives up prices (more establishments will switch to Farang prices), and also keeps salaries for other expats down (because of the law of supply and demand).

The more you talk, the more you put your foot in your mouth.

[Ulysses G.]

The last thing Chiang Mai needs is Fox viewers.

Don't worry. We mostly get Anthony Weiner style liberals living here.

[CMX]

The last thing Chiang Mai needs is Fox viewers.

Don't worry. We mostly get Anthony Weiner style liberals living here.

I can't get the 'posted image' above, and therefore miss the point about what kind of liberals we are among - or we are. Internet flashers? Jewish New Yorker Congressmen who married accomplished Muslim woman who works for H. Clinton, U.S. Secretary of State? Are we liars who deny sending nude and suggestive pics? Help! Edited August 19, 2012 by CMX

[Ulysses G.]

The point was to over-generalize in the same way that crusader79 did about "Fox viewers", so pretty much all of the above.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[DowntownAl]

I don't know how many 'Canadian Barry's' there are in Chiang Mai , but the one I know well, is seething at the moment as his idyllic retirement is about to be cut short by the Canadian government who are currently debating a new law that would require him (and all Canadian retirees) to spend at least 6 months per year in Canada or lose their pensions. Australians already find it difficult to access their pensions if they choose to live outside Australia and Brits get their pensions frozen if they move here. It seems that the retirees home countries aren't keen to see them take their disposable income to exotic foreign locations like Chiang Mai!

I'd appreciate a link to some info on that if you can get your friend do supply one. I am Canadian and I follow politics and pension issues very closely. The CPP (Canada Pension Plan) has just been altered but, nothing new will take affect for 15 years and at that, the only real change is that the first supplement (Old Age Security) which can be collected now at 65 years of age and anywhere in the world, will have the qualifying age raised to 67. There has never been, to my knowledge, any debate on a 6 month requirement other than we lose our health coverage and we do not qualify for the 3rd leg of the pension plan (Guaranteed Income Supplement) which is paid to low income retirees and only if you live in Canada.

[sitta]

I don't know how many 'Canadian Barry's' there are in Chiang Mai , but the one I know well, is seething at the moment as his idyllic retirement is about to be cut short by the Canadian government who are currently debating a new law that would require him (and all Canadian retirees) to spend at least 6 months per year in Canada or lose their pensions. Australians already find it difficult to access their pensions if they choose to live outside Australia and Brits get their pensions frozen if they move here. It seems that the retirees home countries aren't keen to see them take their disposable income to exotic foreign locations like Chiang Mai!

Any Australians out there living in Chiang Mai and still manage get age pension from Centerlink, please share your advise?

[moe666]

Please do not move to CM the locals will make your life miserable and the cost of living here is the most expensive in Thailand. You will be happier in Udon.

[moe666]

How can we keep Chiang Mai a well-kept-secret, if these sites keep blabbing ?

Plus we don't necessarily want CM to turn into "Leisure World." Personally, I don't mind the retires (so far), but, their presence may be jacking up prices, because many can afford to pay them. The article says a guy can live "live like a king on $2,000 a month." That may be true. However, for those of us too young to retire, we must, er, WORK, and that probably means, TEACHING, and most teachers won't make even half the King's purse in a month. So, what's great for retirees who don't have to work, many of whom are just here 'cause it's cheap, can make things more difficult for anyone younger who actually does have to work to live here.

Prices have really gone up in CM in the last 5 years. I don't know how much of that is directly attributable to a growing senior expat community with money to burn, who can afford to pay higher prices, but, teacher's salaries have remained stagnant. So, while teachers could never live like kinds in CM, now their local salaries get them only about 70% as much as they did in the past.

Also, sad to say it, but, old white guys are becoming part of the face of CM. "What did you see on your trip to Chiangmai." "Oh, it was really exotic and interesting. I saw a lot of old white guys living in Thailand."

Again, not to disparage, as I'd choose to retire here myself, but, the more CM becomes a mecca for retirement, the less it becomes a prime spot for tourists or people who want to work and live in Thailand.

Since you are a teacher go home get a teaching degree and certificate then you can come back to Thailand in a few years and teach at a Internation School making 4,000 dollars a month and before you say no. I am talking a good school not one of those fly by night internationa; schools.

My friend in Bangkok makes this kind of money pluss rent sub. they have schools like this in Chiang Mai as well.

[moe666]

$100 a month to eat in a restaurant almost every day. Lets say 25 days he eats in a restaurant, paying $4 a time - that's 120B a go. Quite possible. Then $50 a month food money at home, that's 3000B. A cereal and milk for breakfast every day will be no more than 1000B, leaving 2000B..... If he's out visiting said 'entertainment' venues until 2am every night, our friend Barry may not wake up until 2pm, so his bowl of cereal will take him through to his evening restaurant meal, so the other 2000B can be spent in classy late night food joints such as Mike's Burgers - I'd say 15-20 trips are possible, 5 on the days he doesn't eat at a restaurant and 10 days when he doesn't get fed late night food by his girlfriends of the night.

Lives like a King, cannot believe you question it.

Your math is a bit off as %)dollars is 1500baht at 30 to the dollar. I have a 30dollar a day budget for food and thats for 2 while in Chiang Mai I usually go over that as the beer is expensive.

[DowntownAl]

$100 a month to eat in a restaurant almost every day. Lets say 25 days he eats in a restaurant, paying $4 a time - that's 120B a go. Quite possible. Then $50 a month food money at home, that's 3000B. A cereal and milk for breakfast every day will be no more than 1000B, leaving 2000B..... If he's out visiting said 'entertainment' venues until 2am every night, our friend Barry may not wake up until 2pm, so his bowl of cereal will take him through to his evening restaurant meal, so the other 2000B can be spent in classy late night food joints such as Mike's Burgers - I'd say 15-20 trips are possible, 5 on the days he doesn't eat at a restaurant and 10 days when he doesn't get fed late night food by his girlfriends of the night.

Lives like a King, cannot believe you question it.

Your math is a bit off as %)dollars is 1500baht at 30 to the dollar. I have a 30dollar a day budget for food and thats for 2 while in Chiang Mai I usually go over that as the beer is expensive.

$30 a day? $900 a month,. 27,000 baht a month! Holy crap batman. I eat at a few local restaurants here everyday for lunch at 30 to 40 baht each time. Dinner out ranges from 80 to 150 baht. Dinner I make at home costs me around 60 baht. Breakfast at home (eggs toast juice etc) including coffee around 50-60 baht. All in all I can eat well on 150 to 160 baht average everyday. That's 3 to 4 dollars a day. I can go to the Dukes (love their burgers and have the bacon mushroom doozey for 240 baht. I can't fathom spending anywhere near that much on food in Thailand. Of course I had a short-term GF who could push dinner at a Thai restaurant up 600-700 baht in a Thai restaurant, but then she was working (me). I spent a quarter of that in Canada but, food prices here are controlled, at least in the ta-lat (market) they are. It's pretty easy to eat well and not spend a fortune. I like the way you think but, beer is not technically food, well not in the traditional 3 squares a day sense...and I do like to keep my budget open for other activities. Okay, I'm a cheapskate (budget wise) but what can you do?

Edited August 20, 2012 by DowntownAl

[uptheos]

It's pretty easy to eat well and not spend a fortune.?

It's pretty easy to eat VERY well and not spend a fortune.

[AnkertilBrewer]

Since you are a teacher go home get a teaching degree and certificate then you can come back to Thailand in a few years and teach at a Internation School making 4,000 dollars a month and before you say no. I am talking a good school not one of those fly by night internationa; schools.

I agree. If a foreign teacher is living in sustenance levels in Thailand, he or she should take a few years off of working altogether, go home, rent an apartment, buy a car, get insurance, and pay for further education for a few years.

However, if I had enough money up front to do that, I think I'd just spend the next 10 years here chilling out not doing anything.

Besides, who wants to work full-time in an international school?

[AnkertilBrewer]

The more you talk, the more you put your foot in your mouth.

I'm sorry, I can't hear you clearly because your voice is so muffled. If you have anything intelligent to say, please, try to string together a coherent argument. Otherwise, you are just gagging on your own toes.

[uptheos]

Driving from Arcade to Wat Prasingh today, I realised how ugly and dirty Chiang Mai really is........a good clean up and paint job would be nice.

[AnkertilBrewer]

I don't think the posters here are being that honest with themselves. Do you really want a lot more retirees coming to CM? At some point, would there be so many that it was just ruining the experience? For example, if you are a travel photographer, you want there to be places where a photographer such as yourself can go. But, you don't want hundreds of other photographers in the same place, and you definitely don't want thousands, and you most definitely won't bother when there are tens of thousands and they are looking to expand.

This doesn't just apply to retirees, but to all expats. At some point a place can become over-saturated, which CM already is. So, it's natural for those of us already living here to not want the Farang population to increase to much more. And yes, obviously, prices do go up in many establishments, and wages for those working here stay low because there's no shortage of farang.

People who say "We welcome all foreigners, no matter how many" are probably either not being honest or would prefer to live in a fully Westernized and foreigner populated are, with some Thais on the periphery, preferably with all signs in English, goddammit.