Question Re Uk Visa For Thai Gf

[lime12]

Afternoon all

I'm just preparing all the paperwork for my gf's uk visa application for when she comes to stay with my family for Christmas and I just realised something. We've been living together in Thailand and I've been on a tourist visa but working from home for a company back in England. I appreciate I should not be working but as its not for a Thai company, I'm spending all my money here and the chance of me getting caught is pretty low I thought I'd take the risk.

The only thing is as I'm sponsoring my girlfriend when I take her back home, I'm not sure where I should say this money is coming from when I produce my bank statements. If I say I'm working for a UK company online whilst in Thailand, could this cause them to deny the visa? I really don't want to lie and would prefer everything to be above board.

Kind regards

Lime

[Lite Beer]

Moved to "Visas to other countries"

[VBF]

Lime - I've sent you a PM which concerns something related to this post but not strictly on-topic and of little interest to others. It may help you though - I hope!

VBF

[7by7]

I doubt that the Entry Clearance Section at the British embassy are that concerned about whether you are working illegally in Thailand and are unlikely to report you to the MFA.

They are concerned about the truth, and if you lie about where this money comes from and they find out that you have lied; no visa for her now and possibly a 10 year ban from visiting the UK.

You will need to provide evidence that you have the funds to pay for the visit. Your bank statements will do, where do they show this money coming from?

From UK Visit visa Basics

If living together in Thailand then provide evidence of this and the sponsor's passport to show their immigration status in Thailand.

If living apart, one in Thailand and one in the UK, then provide evidence of contact such as phone records etc. and a copy of the sponsor's passport to show how often they have visited the applicant.

So telling the embassy that you live and work in the UK is not an option.

You must tell the truth in the application; to do otherwise may have severe consequences; as already mentioned.

[TCA]

Do you pay UK taxes or are you non UK resident? I wouldn't imagine it's something the British embassy would concern themselves with, but perhaps more likely than them bothering about your status in Thailand.

Would they go to the bother of contacting HMRC providing you could demonstrate means of support? Don't think so but don't know. Interesting to know if anyone else "flying under the radar" has had any issues.

[7by7]

I doubt that the Entry Clearance Section at the British embassy are that concerned about whether you are working illegally in Thailand and are unlikely to report you to the MFA.

One thing has occurred to me since writing the above.

You are abusing the Thai visit visa system to live and work illegally in Thailand. What evidence can you or your girlfriend provide to convince the ECO that she wont do the same in the UK; and why should they believe you?

[TCA]

Is it possible to demonstrate savings as opposed to income and avoid the employment issue entirely?

[lime12]

Thanks 7by7 and everyone else for the useful advice. In answer to your question 7by7 about proving to the ECO that my girlfriend wouldn't do the same and abuse the visa system - I have no evidence that she wouldn't do the same, despite knowing full well that she never would. Would the fact that I have flight tickets booked, lasting for 2 weeks be good enough? As it would mean there isn't really enough time for her to work? Also she has a full time position for a respectable company in Thailand with a letter saying she must return to work after two weeks.

If you guys think its too risky, I could abandon myself being the sponsor and ask my Mother to do it instead. I would rather avoid having to get her involved, printing out her bank statements etc, but if its a safer option...

[lime12]

Is it possible to demonstrate savings as opposed to income and avoid the employment issue entirely?

Is this possible? From what I read you have to provide evidence of where the money in your account comes from.

[beano2274]

Thanks 7by7 and everyone else for the useful advice. In answer to your question 7by7 about proving to the ECO that my girlfriend wouldn't do the same and abuse the visa system - I have no evidence that she wouldn't do the same, despite knowing full well that she never would. Would the fact that I have flight tickets booked, lasting for 2 weeks be good enough? As it would mean there isn't really enough time for her to work? Also she has a full time position for a respectable company in Thailand with a letter saying she must return to work after two weeks.

If you guys think its too risky, I could abandon myself being the sponsor and ask my Mother to do it instead. I would rather avoid having to get her involved, printing out her bank statements etc, but if its a safer option...

Just a quick point - you never buy tickets in advance of an application.

The ECO does not want to know if you work illegally or not, they just want to see your passport and proof of money, where the income comes from does not concern them.

Make sure you keep quiet about the working, as it takes one jealous person and you could find the police knocking on your door.

[7by7]

Keeping quiet about working may be difficult; his passport shows him living in Thailand, presumably by means of visa runs, yet his bank statements will, presumably, show money being regularly paid in by a UK employer. The ECO may ignore this considering it to be a matter for Thai immigration and none of his business; s/he may not. I don't know; do you?

lime12,

You will be the sponsor; sponsor in this instance means the person supporting the application, not the person paying for the trip. There is, however, no reason why your mother should not pay for the trip; she is presumably providing the accommodation? If she is going to pay then she should write a letter saying why she is doing so and provide evidence that she has the means to do so.

As Beano says, the UKBA advise not buying tickets until the visa has been granted. Even if you did, they would not be accepted as proof that the applicant will leave the UK; the rewards for working illegally in the UK outweigh the cost of losing the money by not using the return portion of a ticket.

That she has a job and her employer is willing to write a letter confirming this is a good point in her favour. Be aware, though, that the ECO or an embassy clerk may phone the person who signs the letter for confirmation; if the letter is written in English they will expect to speak to that person in English and will doubt the genuineness of the letter if that person is unable to do so. If the letter is written in Thai then the embassy will be happy to speak to it's signatory in Thai.

As your girlfriend has a job then maybe she can afford to pay for her trip herself? This would leave your finances out of the picture.

Although you would still need to act as her sponsor as you are the reason for her visiting the UK and she will, presumably, be staying with your family.

I must say, though, that a lot of my fears are conjecture; I simply do not know how the ECO would view the situation; very few here do.

Hopefully one of those who do will post.

[lime12]

Hi guys, I didn't want to buy the tickets in advance, was just worried that the longer I left it the more expensive the tickets would get as its around Christmas time. Yes I am careful and keep quiet about my working situation, I'm not proud or exactly happy about the situation but doing it the right way and getting a work permit seemed like a lot of trouble (not that it excuses me).

Her boss speaks good English so is able to confirm the letter is genuine. Although my girlfriend has a decent job by Thai standards (office support on 15k b a month), she doesn't have a right lot in the way of savings so she wouldn't be able to pay for the trip herself.

Well just one final question - Beano you said they just want to see the passport and proof of money, where the income comes from does not concern them. However the visa application says:

- If your spouse or partner is employed then the Entry Clearance Officer would also like to see evidence of their employment and financial details.

It also recommends payslips to be supplied, or if the applicant is being sponsored "If someone else is paying for your trip then they should consider providing the same information about their finances and

employment".

Its obvious looking at my 6 months of statements I am being paid a salary so I think I should mention I am, otherwise it looks like I'm trying to hide something. Do you mean even though I supply the information about my employment status, it wouldn't have any effect on the application?

Thanks a lot to both of you for the help.

[beano2274]

How does the ECO know that the money is not from some other means like owning a house in the UK or something else.

If you use your mum then get her to send a copy of her passport page, a letter of invitation and some proof that the house is hers and able to accommodate you all ( I got my uncle to do this for me during a death in the family, so that my wife could visit the UK). If she has a good job then great for her, the ECO is looking for her to have at least 80GBP per day for spending in her account, if you are paying the airfares then you will need to show your bank books for proof.

[7by7]

How does the ECO know that the money is not from some other means like owning a house in the UK or something else

My bank statements show:- Date, Bank Credit, name of payer (my employer), amount.

I doubt that other UK banks are much different.

You may be able to leave something out if it's not relevant; but trying to hide something or make it seem other than it is is a very dangerous path to follow. The applicant is responsible for everything in the application; even information from a third party. If anything in the application is discovered to be fraudulent then the application will be refused and the applicant could be banned from visiting the UK for 10 years, or even banned form entering g the UK in any capacity for life!

The sponsor needs to provide a copy of their passport, the person supplying finance and/or accommodation does not.

£80 per day!!!!!!!! When staying with her sponsor's family!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ECO is not looking for a set amount, merely that her expenses will be covered. The money can be in her account, her sponsor's, that of a third party or parties or any combination of these.

When my sister-in-law visited we said that as she was staying with us her outgoings would be minimal; I don't think we put an actual figure. Certainly it was nowhere near £80 per day; if we had needed that we couldn't have afforded it!

[beano2274]

How does the ECO know that the money is not from some other means like owning a house in the UK or something else

My bank statements show:- Date, Bank Credit, name of payer (my employer), amount.

I doubt that other UK banks are much different.

You may be able to leave something out if it's not relevant; but trying to hide something or make it seem other than it is is a very dangerous path to follow. The applicant is responsible for everything in the application; even information from a third party. If anything in the application is discovered to be fraudulent then the application will be refused and the applicant could be banned from visiting the UK for 10 years, or even banned form entering g the UK in any capacity for life!

The sponsor needs to provide a copy of their passport, the person supplying finance and/or accommodation does not.

£80 per day!!!!!!!! When staying with her sponsor's family!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ECO is not looking for a set amount, merely that her expenses will be covered. The money can be in her account, her sponsor's, that of a third party or parties or any combination of these.

When my sister-in-law visited we said that as she was staying with us her outgoings would be minimal; I don't think we put an actual figure. Certainly it was nowhere near £80 per day; if we had needed that we couldn't have afforded it!

Where does it say that the OP has a UK Bank account? I have a Thai bank account it says money has gone in on the date and how much, and not from who.

80 GBP might be a little high, but it is my ball park figure, if you checked Schengen visas then they like to see around 3500baht per day available.

You might be someone who gets visas easy but I used the information given in a handout from the Embassy, which I gave to my mum and it stated those items were required. The handout was for sponsors of UK visitors which the OP's GF will be.

[7by7]

True, he has not said where his bank is; but as he is working illegally in Thailand and being paid in the UK I think it's a fair assumption that he is being paid into a UK bank. I do, though, stand to be corrected buy the OP.

Schengen visa requirements have nothing to do with UK visas; the UK is not a member of the Schengen area. Even if it were, most Schengen applicants here are spouses of EEA nationals and so don't need to show this, or any, figure.

I am aware that the OP is asking about his girlfriend, and so would have to satisfy this requirement and show this figure, assuming it's correct and compulsory; I've not checked.

£80 per day is £29200 per year! That's more than 150% of the figure required for a couple to settle in the UK under the new settlement rules! It's even over the average annual earnings for the UK!

It may be your ball park figure, but it is way over the top. You are very fortunate if you can afford to show you have this amount of spare income; most of us don't.

The UKBA guidance says

you have enough money to support and accommodate yourself without working or help from public funds, or you and any dependants will be supported and accommodated by relatives or friends;

It does not give a minimum figure, and neither do the immigration rules.

The sponsor of a visitor does have to provide their passport, or other evidence of their citizenship or immigration status, in the UK, and need it anyway to show their status in Thailand and/or how often they have visited the person they are sponsoring.

The person(s) providing finance and/or accommodation, if any, do not need to provide their passport nor any other evidence of their immigration status in the UK. They don't even need to be British nor do they have to be living in the UK.

[beano2274]

the 80GBP per day of stay in the UK, is the amount of money the applicant should be able to show in their account to apply for a visa, this is my ball park figure.

I know the UK is not part of the Schengen visa, I have assisted my wife and MIL in applying for both visas before. If you read my reply carefully it says that she should have 80GBP per day for spending, yes maybe too much but an amount that can be seen in the account.

The Op says he is working for a UK company and spending his money here, I still do not see where it says his bank is in the UK.

The OP does suggest his mother sponsoring his GF's visit, therefore this page applies:

http://www.ukba.home...itor/documents/

Edited August 20, 2012 by beano2274

[MaprangHolmes]

if your account is in the UK then another way, if you have time is to open an on-line savings account with your own bank and transfer money from your normal account to your savings account then on your statement it would only show as a transfer.

[TCA]

http://www.ukba.home...itor/documents/

Beano's link indicates that you can show a savings book instead of 6 months of bank statements. So going back to what I said before, why not demonstrate savings and sidestep all the employment stuff? Or am I missing something?

[7by7]

the 80GBP per day of stay in the UK, is the amount of money the applicant should be able to show in their account to apply for a visa, this is my ball park figure.

It may be your ball park figure; but there is nothing in the immigration rules to suggest that a figure anywhere near this is required

(vi) will maintain and accommodate himself and any dependants adequately out of resources available to him without recourse to public funds or taking employment; or will, with any dependants, be maintained and accommodated adequately by relatives or friends

Neither does the guidance I linked to and quoted above give any figure.

Anyone reading this who is worried by Beano's insistence that a visitor should be able to show £80 per day for their visit; don't be. He is wrong. As the immigration rules and the guidance show all that is required is that the visitor has adequate funds available to them to cover the cost of their visit; how much depends on how long the visit is and other factors such as where they are staying. For example; a visitor staying with friends or family wont need as much as a visitor staying in hotels.

Beano, you are, again, confusing the meaning of the word 'sponsor' in this context. As I have previously explained to you here the sponsor of a visitor is not necessarily the same person providing the finance and/or the accommodation. Many visitors don't have a sponsor, even though they may not be paying for the trip themselves; for example if their parents are paying.

Are you saying that an application from a person whose parents are paying for the trip will be refused because their parents don't live in the UK? Surely not!

Neither you nor I know whether the OP is being paid into a UK or Thai or other bank; my comments are based on his being paid into a UK bank. If he isn't, then it is up to him to say.

MaprangHolmes and TCA,

As the person providing the finance needs to show at least three months evidence of their finances, opening a savings account now and transferring the money into it would not solve the problem unless his girlfriend waited at least three months before submitting her application.

[TCA]

MaprangHolmes and TCA,

As the person providing the finance needs to show at least three months evidence of their finances, opening a savings account now and transferring the money into it would not solve the problem unless his girlfriend waited at least three months before submitting her application.

The link from Beano stated several months of bank statements OR a savings book. My point was that maybe the OP had an existing savings account which had been in operation for some time and could be used in this respect. He hasn't said so, so I don't know. Are you saying that link is incorrect?

"If you will provide financial support and accommodation for your general visitor and/or pay for his/her travel to the United Kingdom, you should send us the following as evidence that you are able to do so:

copies of your bank or building society statements and payslips for the last six months;

or a copy of your savings account book."

Edited August 20, 2012 by TCA

[beano2274]

7 by 7

where have I said that it is a requirement of 80GBP, I said that it is a ball park figure that the ECO would probably like to see in an applicants account. You seem to put words in other peoples mouths.

Sponsor if the OP is not paying for the trip and his mother is supplying the accommodation where is he sponsoring the trip? Nowhere.

[7by7]

You have repeatedly said that an applicant should be able to show what you call a 'ball park figure' of £80 per day; that this is the figure the ECO expects to see.

You are wrong.

Nowhere in the guidance you have linked to, the guidance I have linked to, the immigration rules I have linked to or the Entry Clearance Guidance, which ECOs use to aid them, is any figure mentioned. The ECGs for general visitors doesn't mention a figure at all, simply referring the ECO to the immigration rules. The ECGs for family visits also refers ECOs to the immigration rules, and also says

that there are sufficient funds available to finance the stay (and that of any dependants) and the onward or return journey.

No mention of a 'ball park figure' at all, let alone one of £80 per day.

As I said before, £80 per day is not only way above the minimum income required for a settlement visa, it is also above the average income in the UK. To expect a visitor to have this amount would be ridiculous; you may have a spare £80 per day, but I wonder how many members here, or anywhere, do; I wish I did!

But you have said what you think; I have said what I think and what the immigration rules and all official guidance says. It is up to members to decide who they believe.

As I said in my previous; you are, again, confusing the meaning of the word 'sponsor' in this context. I have previously explained this to you here, but you still don't seem to have read that explanation. So I will copy and paste it here.

With respect Bob and Beano, you are both making the same mistake that many others, myself included, have made before you. That is over the meaning of the word 'sponsor.'

Sponsor has several meanings, one of which is "a person who vouches or is responsible for a person or thing." (Dictionary.com) another being "a person taking official responsibility for the actions of another: they act as sponsors and contacts for new immigrants" (Oxford Dictionaries)

Although any undertakings or guarantees provided by the sponsor of a visitor would not be enforceable in UK law, the definition of a sponsor in a visa application is, basically, the person supporting the application, the person the visitor is traveling to the UK with or to visit; the person who is the reason for the visit, if you will.

In the OP's case he is his girlfriend's sponsor. In Beano's case he was his wife's sponsor and in Bob's case he and his wife were their friend's joint sponsors.

I admit that I had forgotten that sponsor's need to provide evidence of their own immigration status in the UK by providing their passport; or a copy of. That the sponsor may live outside the UK does not effect his UK immigration status if he is a British citizen; British citizens have the right to live in the UK. In addition, a non British citizen does not need to be settled in the UK. A person in the UK under the PBS, study or work, can sponsor a visitor.

Accommodation and/or finance for a visit can be provided by the applicant, the sponsor, a third party or any combination of these. If a third party is contributing toward the finance or providing accommodation their passport is not required.

[7by7]

TCA, I am not saying that the information provided by the UKBA is incorrect, it isn't; but:-

MAA5 What evidence of maintenance is required?

For applicant's and / or sponsor's funds:

• Statements covering at least 3 months
  
• Are there regular transactions?
  
• Are the funds immediately available?
  
• Large deposits with no evidence of normal transactions need careful examination. (My emphasis)
  

Although the guidance is primarily for settlement applications, it is used for visits, too.

So if the OP does have a savings account which has been dormant, or had a low balance, for some time and then suddenly has a large deposit paid in just before a visa application, the ECO is going to be suspicious and want to know where this money came from.

Ditto if he were to open a new savings account.

Of course, if he has a savings account which already has sufficient funds in it, and has for some time, then there is no reason why he could not use that.

[cms22]

Hi lime12, is there an outcome yet to your dilemma? I'm interest because parts of your query are close to my situations...

Thanks

[cms22]

VBF, this is similar to my situation... If there is any assistance or tips you know I would really appreciate you telling me too. Thanks. Appreciated.

C