camerata Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Steve Jobs Is Kickin’ It In The Afterlife As A Mid-Level Angel In His Celestial Palace, Says Thai Abbot Where is Steve Jobs right now? According to the abbot of a Buddhist temple in Thailand, Apple’s iconic co-founder has been re-incarnated as a mid-level angel currently residing in an ethereal six-storey building located not far from his Apple office in a parallel world. He is also a half-giant. The claim was made on the official website of the Wat Phra Dhammakaya in Thailand’s Panthum Thani province in an article called “Where Is Steve Jobs?” which aims to answer questions about Jobs’s afterlife. According to Abbot Phrathepyanmahamuni, Steve Jobs is now a “a half Witthayathorn, half Yak.” A ‘yak’ is the Thai word for giant, while a Witthayathorn is a type of angel who loves to seek knowledge in various sciences. According to the abbot, Jobs has retained his famous hot temper even in the afterlife. Full article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Whilst I don't know if he would be half Yak I wouldn't be surprised if he is now living in one of the 6 Angel Classes..... Interesting thought maybe I will talk to Laung Poe Sinh who is able to meditate to see these classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawnie Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Does the abbot have any idea as to his name in this heaven (presuming that he's not known as "Steve Jobs" there) or any insight as to how long Mr. So and So will reside there? The "long-living" gods have life spans of about 500,000 years but the abbot does not indicate that Mr. So and So is a long-living god. Oy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) As was explained to my by my teacher there are 6 classes (levels) where Angels or Deity's live before NIbbana is reached. Anyone in one of the 6 classes still needs to make merit to achieve samsara so are subject to birth/rebirth just not on the earth as 'living' people. The time spent there is almost beyond our comprehension. According to Wiki and Naraka there is one hell Avīci – the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×1018 years long which I am sure you would agree is quite a while! BTW There are no gods in Buddhism..... Edited August 22, 2012 by Para Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weary Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The word is 'deva', เทพ and เทวดา in Thai. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deva_%28Buddhism%29 Seems to me it might be best to avoid translating the word as angel or god, as neither of these words seems to be the same type of entity as a deva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The word is 'deva', เทพ and เทวดา in Thai. http://en.wikipedia....Deva_(Buddhism) Seems to me it might be best to avoid translating the word as angel or god, as neither of these words seems to be the same type of entity as a deva. Deva and Deity are the same http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity#Buddhism Thai's believe in 2 types of non-beings they are either ghosts (bad) or angels (good). Using http://www.thai-language.com to translate เทพ - angel; fairy; god; deity; divine being เทวดา - a male angel. Cross referencing with http://www.thai2english.com.... เทพ tâyp god ; goddess ; angel เทวดา tay-wá-daa god ; goddess ; angel My Abbott explained to me about the 6 classes of Angels and used the word Angels but hey he is only the Abbot of the temple and has a Doctorate in Buddhism....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 He was very disappointed to find out that the parallel universe only had wireless access to platforms running Windows OS. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 He was very disappointed to find out that the parallel universe only had wireless access to platforms running Windows OS. I think he would be more angry to find it running on Android! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawnie Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 As was explained to my by my teacher there are 6 classes (levels) where Angels or Deity's live before NIbbana is reached. Anyone in one of the 6 classes still needs to make merit to achieve samsara so are subject to birth/rebirth just not on the earth as 'living' people. The time spent there is almost beyond our comprehension. According to Wiki and Narakathere is one hell Avīci – the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×1018 years long which I am sure you would agree is quite a while! BTW There are no gods in Buddhism..... Buddhism recognizes 'gods' as a level of existence within samsara. What you are referring to, I believe, is that Buddhism says there is no creator god who created everything, an over-seer god, the Christian "God." Buddhism is very specific about these gods: they have very long lifetimes, they dwell in bliss, in high states of meditation, whatever they wish for or want immediately appears to them, etc. But, their existence is temporary. One week before they pass out of the god-like existence, they have a vision of their next life, their clothes become dirty and they smell bad, their attendants all abandon them. Soon, they are reborn into another realm. They don't practice the Dharma in the god existence because they see no need, their existence is already blissful and without problems. They experience great suffering and remorse when, after 500,000 years, they see that they will go to another, lower existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payboy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 And i heard Gates is cleaning windows at a high rise in the Valley - too many bugs there. But wait, he's not dead yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Buddhism recognizes 'gods' as a level of existence within samsara. What you are referring to, I believe, is that Buddhism says there is no creator god who created everything, an over-seer god, the Christian "God." Absolutely agree. they dwell in bliss, in high states of meditation, whatever they wish for or want immediately appears to them, etc. Not so sure on this but its only my opinion. They still endure the suffering of samsara it not until they reach Nibbana they are in true bliss. As for 'whatever they wish for or want' don't you think this the same as lusting (craving) and attachment as defined by the Four Nobel Truths and thus the root of all suffering? If life is so good at the lowest level then why strive for Nibbaba? One week before they pass out of the god-like existence, they have a vision of their next life, their clothes become dirty and they smell bad, their attendants all abandon them. Soon, they are reborn into another realm. Its been said that people able to attain Jhana the deepest depth of meditation are also to see not just previous lives but where they are going to be born in the next. They don't practice the Dharma in the god existence because they see no need, their existence is already blissful and without problems. I disagree they have to practice Dhamma and meditation to escape the lower 6 classes which have a physical form attached to them to enter the upper 10 classes which are formless. Even at the 16th level they still endure samsara and it not until full enlightenment is attained and they pass to Nibbaba that their suffering/problems stop and life is as you say blissful. This is all conjecture but if I am ever able to achieve even the lowest class I will try and get a message back letting people know what its like! With metta Phra Para 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabianfred Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 The trouble with life in the heaven realms is that there is no suffering and so desire to make merit...even humans get complacent and with little thought for their future rush around seeking pleasures they know are temporary. In the six deva heavens they enjoy pleasures of the senses and even sex...but it doesn't lead to childbirth...there are no children in the realms above human. They have the chance to hear the dhamma when a Buddha is alive and teaching, but once he is gone we humans are in a far better position to study and practice. In the higher realms of Brahmas etc. they live in bliss similar to the four jhanic states....and the higher realms are without difference in sexes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockyysdt Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 The trouble with life in the heaven realms is that there is no suffering and so desire to make merit...even humans get complacent and with little thought for their future rush around seeking pleasures they know are temporary. In the six deva heavens they enjoy pleasures of the senses and even sex...but it doesn't lead to childbirth...there are no children in the realms above human. They have the chance to hear the dhamma when a Buddha is alive and teaching, but once he is gone we humans are in a far better position to study and practice. In the higher realms of Brahmas etc. they live in bliss similar to the four jhanic states....and the higher realms are without difference in sexes. It sounds pretty good though Fred. Being in heaven. Do they also avoid Dukkha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 They have the chance to hear the dhamma when a Buddha is alive and teaching, but once he is gone we humans are in a far better position to study and practice. In the higher realms of Brahmas etc. they live in bliss similar to the four jhanic states....and the higher realms are without difference in sexes. I was taught the first 6 realms the deva's have a physical property about them where as the upper 10 realms there is no physical and that the only way to move up a realm was through the deva's making merit through Dhamma and meditation? Thanks for filling in a couple of blanks I had on what was taught to me. Do they also avoid Dukkha? I know you asked fabianfred but my understanding is they still endure samsara to to me that means some degree of Dukkha but I am open to correction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockyysdt Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Do they also avoid Dukkha? I know you asked fabianfred but my understanding is they still endure samsara to to me that means some degree of Dukkha but I am open to correction! Maybe getting what you wish for everytime provides a level of boredom. Particularly if life goes on seemingly endlessly. Fred said sex is performed in the Deva relms. We can crave sexual fulfillment but have it on tap 24 hours a day and maybe the attraction might wain. Perhaps like being married/monogamous for a million years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Perhaps like being married/monogamous for a million years. I think either would cause severe Dukkha! Curious if even the lowest class of Deva's are able to like such an enjoyable life what is the incentive to reach Nibbana? Edited August 25, 2012 by Para Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 unfortunately "half-yak stories" like this are putting off most people who are interested, respectively learn more about Buddhism 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 unfortunately "half-yak stories" like this are putting off most people who are interested, respectively learn more about Buddhism No disrespect Naam but when you say 'most people' what are you basing that on? This is a single thread that is discussing he path to Nibbaba sounds pretty Buddhist to me. If people don't like what's being discussed here they are free to read the next thread..... Phra Para Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabianfred Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 The trouble with life in the heaven realms is that there is no suffering and so desire to make merit...even humans get complacent and with little thought for their future rush around seeking pleasures they know are temporary. In the six deva heavens they enjoy pleasures of the senses and even sex...but it doesn't lead to childbirth...there are no children in the realms above human. They have the chance to hear the dhamma when a Buddha is alive and teaching, but once he is gone we humans are in a far better position to study and practice. In the higher realms of Brahmas etc. they live in bliss similar to the four jhanic states....and the higher realms are without difference in sexes. It sounds pretty good though Fred. Being in heaven. Do they also avoid Dukkha? In the six heaven (Deva) realms above the human realm the only forms of suffering are three... One mentioned by an earlier poster...when they know their time is bcoming to an end...and wondering where they will take rebirth combined with sudden aging. two.. a desire for something....almost immediately fulfilled slight boredom..not feeling any desire. These realms along with the human realm are within the class of realms of sensual desire.....subject to the pleasures of the five senses....beautiful sights, sounds, smells, tastes and feelings. Sex does not lead to procreation..because pregnancy and childbirth and close attending upon an infant are all forms of suffering (three of the five forms of suffering experienced by women and not men in the human realm.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 The trouble with life in the heaven realms is that there is no suffering In the six heaven (Deva) realms above the human realm the only forms of suffering are three... So there is suffering in the higher levels due to samsara and as outlined by the Four Nobel Truths? As human beings we are aware of suffering and the cure for it with the Eight Fold Path but when we have attained enough positive merit we escape samsara in the human world and enter samsara in the Deva world but are then made to endure the same suffering as we had as humans, craving, attachment etc. So what about the next 10 realms there are as I understand it 16 in all? I don't follow the logic on this I am sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabianfred Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Yes there is very minor suffering in the kamasugati realms, but the main problem is that one hasn't escaped samsara. I think one of the rupa loka is the destination for Anagami who reach Arahant whilst in that realm....they are already close to escaping. We should aim for at least stream-entry, and its safety from falling into the four lower realms, in this lifetime. During the period of destruction at the end of an aeon all beings from all realms take rebirht in the Arupa loka...until a new Earth and set of realms is once more in place to continue the cycle during the subsequent Aeon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockyysdt Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Yes there is very minor suffering in the kamasugati realms, but the main problem is that one hasn't escaped samsara. I think one of the rupa loka is the destination for Anagami who reach Arahant whilst in that realm....they are already close to escaping. We should aim for at least stream-entry, and its safety from falling into the four lower realms, in this lifetime. During the period of destruction at the end of an aeon all beings from all realms take rebirht in the Arupa loka...until a new Earth and set of realms is once more in place to continue the cycle during the subsequent Aeon. The sphere of infinite consciousness sounds like a good place to be. In all honesty, the upper Deva realms might be subject to somekind of suffering, but compared to what we see around our planet, this would be "spoilt for not appreciating what you have" level. Nothing like, the killing, torture, sickness, loss, anguish, pain and other suffering which humans are subject to. In which Sutta's does the Buddha cover such realm detail? Edited August 25, 2012 by rockyysdt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Yes there is very minor suffering in the kamasugati realms, but the main problem is that one hasn't escaped samsara. I would agree there seems to be only minor suffering in Kamasugati what about the 4 lowest planes Kamaduggati Bhumi? (Planes of misery - State of loss) Daemons Unhappy Spirits Eight Major Hell's But isn't samsara in every plane until Nibbana is reached? Thank you so much for posting the 31 planes I was only told of 16 I have learned something. The sphere of infinite consciousness sounds like a good place to be. In all honesty, the upper Deva realms might be subject to somekind of suffering, but compared to what we see around our planet, this would be "spoilt for not appreciating what you have" level. Nothing like, the killing, torture, sickness, loss, anguish, pain and other suffering which humans are subject to. In which Sutta's does the Buddha cover such realm detail? +1 Wonder if they offer a fast track there! Edited August 25, 2012 by Para Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 unfortunately "half-yak stories" like this are putting off most people who are interested, respectively learn more about Buddhism No disrespect Naam but when you say 'most people' what are you basing that on? This is a single thread that is discussing he path to Nibbaba sounds pretty Buddhist to me. If people don't like what's being discussed here they are free to read the next thread..... Phra Para my assumption is based on common sense and not a matter of liking or not liking. if somebody is interested to know more about Buddhism he will want to read all threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadish_sweetball Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Not to worry - stop your Kling-on, and you'll be fine, the Buddha said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabianfred Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Samsara IS the 31 planes in which beings continue the cycle of existence until final escape to nibbana.... It is said that the worst suffering you could possibly imagine in the human realm does not compare with the least suffering in the hell realms... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankei Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 unfortunately "half-yak stories" like this are putting off most people who are interested, respectively learn more about Buddhism I agree. it is ridiculous stories like this that make Buddhists look silly. Bankei 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawnie Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 The trouble with life in the heaven realms is that there is no suffering In the six heaven (Deva) realms above the human realm the only forms of suffering are three... So there is suffering in the higher levels due to samsara and as outlined by the Four Nobel Truths? As human beings we are aware of suffering and the cure for it with the Eight Fold Path but when we have attained enough positive merit we escape samsara in the human world and enter samsara in the Deva world but are then made to endure the same suffering as we had as humans, craving, attachment etc. So what about the next 10 realms there are as I understand it 16 in all? I don't follow the logic on this I am sorry. No, there is no suffering in the god realm like in the human, animal, hungry ghost, and hell realms. The god realm is characterized by a blissful existence...beings who go there have accumulated a lot of good merit. Because there is no suffering and because the beings there are god-like, they perceive no reason to study the dharma. However, this realm is one of the six realms within samsara and is, therefore, impermanent. When their karma is exhausted after thousands of years, these beings pass to lower realms where they again experience suffering (physical, mental, etc.). These beings suffer greatly in their last few moments in the god realm as the perceive they will soon leave that existence to be reborn in a lower one. So, yes, for a while, these beings do not experience suffering but only temporarily since they are not liberated from the cycle of samsaric existence. They will need to practice and accomplish the Buddhist teachings in order to be finally liberated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawnie Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) unfortunately "half-yak stories" like this are putting off most people who are interested, respectively learn more about Buddhism I agree. it is ridiculous stories like this that make Buddhists look silly. Bankei I agree that it sounds a little cartoon-ish. A more sober explanation is that Buddhist teachings say that beings transmigrate between six different realms of existence: god, demi-god, human, animal, preta, or hungry ghost, and hell realms. In authentic texts which provide detail on these realms, you will find descriptions of the beings in each realm. For example, in the hungry ghost realm, beings are characterized as have very long, thin necks, short arms and legs, and huge stomachs. This is the result of karma and causes great suffering because they have huge appetites but very small necks/throats which make eating very difficult (they have other problems associated with food and eating but the point here is their physical appearance). For the animal realm, one of the other realms that humans actually perceive, you can see for yourself the vast range of physical bodies which occupy that realm. In that context, if you had never heard of a cow and I told you there is a very large four-legged animal which humans squeeze liquid from and then drink, you would probably be a little skeptical, to say the least. Now for the giants. It is the demi-god realm where beings are described as being 'giant' by comparison to human, approximately 14 feet tall, if I remember correctly. The demi-god realm is not peaceful and is characterized by lots of conflict and in-fighting among beings there. Beings in whom aggression predominated their previous existence are reborn there. They are often called 'jealous gods' and live in envy of the long-living gods. This is where Steve Jobs is supposedly residing now, but not as Steve Jobs in all likelihood. Regarding the space being near the Apple headquarters, it does sound a little ridiculous and too much of a coincidence. But, the six realms (and the many sub-realms within each) interpenetrate the same great space so it is possible. Space, which can also be called 'the ground of the all-knowing Dharmadhatu," is infinitely accommodating and allows infinite forms to exist within it. This is why you hear stories of millions of beings attending a teaching by the Buddha, the human concept of space does not apply to the Buddha and the higher beings. Edited August 26, 2012 by Jawnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockyysdt Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 No, there is no suffering in the god realm like in the human, animal, hungry ghost, and hell realms. The god realm is characterized by a blissful existence... Doesn't iit seem a conflict in terms J? Isn't simply being in the state of Samsara to suffer? beings who go there have accumulated a lot of good merit. Because there is no suffering and because the beings there are god-like, they perceive no reason to study the dharma. Would you say that, although they had a lot of merit, they experienced much sloth and torpor. After all, isn't the difference between those who a re born and those who are likely to succeed, the diligent practice of dharma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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