Steve Jobs Is Now A Half-Yak Living In A Heavenly Palace

[rics21]

Another DMC plot to attract followers.

Believe it or not. There r really believers to really thinks that Steve became another half yank. Steve was a Zen, he is no member of the Theravada sect. Anyway DMC is something of their own, their beliefs r nothing close to the teachings of the Theravada.

Watched VCDs by the DMC sometime back, didn't feel right at all.

Their ideology to contribute to the temple; " you should contribute to the DMC temple as it is one of the biggest temple. Contributing to build the DMC temple will gives you more merit as there r more believers using the temple as a place of worship. Contributing to a temple in the Upcountry will result in a minimal merit as it is not utilised as compared to the DMC." It is totally unacceptable to me.

Can't accept a temple to deduct monthly contribution from,my bank account either.

Its a huge scam. With lots of believers.

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[rockyysdt]

Another DMC plot to attract followers.

Believe it or not. There r really believers to really thinks that Steve became another half yank. Steve was a Zen, he is no member of the Theravada sect. Anyway DMC is something of their own, their beliefs r nothing close to the teachings of the Theravada.

Watched VCDs by the DMC sometime back, didn't feel right at all.

Their ideology to contribute to the temple; " you should contribute to the DMC temple as it is one of the biggest temple. Contributing to build the DMC temple will gives you more merit as there r more believers using the temple as a place of worship. Contributing to a temple in the Upcountry will result in a minimal merit as it is not utilised as compared to the DMC." It is totally unacceptable to me.

Can't accept a temple to deduct monthly contribution from,my bank account either.

Its a huge scam. With lots of believers.

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I for one do not support scams and generally remain unattached to superstition.

In terms of what may have happened to Steve, isn't what happens to us not necessarily aligned with our belief?

Otherwise, in order to achieve a certain outcome, all you have to do is believe in it.

Edited August 26, 2012 by rockyysdt

[Jawnie]

No, there is no suffering in the god realm like in the human, animal, hungry ghost, and hell realms. The god realm is characterized by a blissful existence...

Doesn't iit seem a conflict in terms J?

Isn't simply being in the state of Samsara to suffer?

beings who go there have accumulated a lot of good merit. Because there is no suffering and because the beings there are god-like, they perceive no reason to study the dharma.

Would you say that, although they had a lot of merit, they experienced much sloth and torpor.

After all, isn't the difference between those who a re born and those who are likely to succeed, the diligent practice of dharma?

No, it is not a contradiction. The long-life god realm is a samsaric realm characterized by a blissful and meditative existence. Its character is bliss. They live so long that they are oblivious to mortality until they approach death. They indulge in bliss for aeons. They have no motivation to practice the dharma. When their karma is finally exhausted, it is only then they experience the suffering of change. Not having developed any positive qualities such as wisdom and compassion nor performed any positive actions, they have no positive basis for the future. They have exhausted all the positive merit which caused them to be reborn as gods. As their death approaches, they see their future rebirth as a hell being, animal, or preta...then their suffering is immense. It is not a contradiction, it is one of the six destinies.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Jawnie

[Para]

I agree. it is ridiculous stories like this that make Buddhists look silly.

Bankei

So you don't believe in in the higher planes of Gods/Deva's/Deity's?

No, it is not a contradiction. The long-life god realm is a samsaric realm characterized by a blissful and meditative existence. Its character is bliss. They live so long that they are oblivious to mortality until they approach death. They indulge in bliss for aeons. They have no motivation to practice the dharma. When their karma is finally exhausted, it is only then they experience the suffering of change. Not having developed any positive qualities such as wisdom and compassion nor performed any positive actions, they have no positive basis for the future. They have exhausted all the positive merit which caused them to be reborn as gods. As their death approaches, they see their future rebirth as a hell being, animal, or preta...then their suffering is immense. It is not a contradiction, it is one of the six destinies.

Interesting comment and one I would agree with.

Imagine the pain of living a mindful human life accumulating karma and wisdom so as to be able to break human samsara and live in a plane so much more than I am sure we can even imagine only to then lose it all through lack of discipline following the Dhamma and meditation knowing you will be reborn back down in this living hell.

In terms of what may have happened to Steve, isn't what happens to us not necessarily aligned with our belief?

Otherwise, in order to achieve a certain outcome, all you have to do is believe in it.

Absolutely we all follow our own paths hoping that it will lead us to the place we feel is best for us. IMO.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Para

[rics21]

Meditation do not show anyone the afterlife, one needs to achieve Bodhisattva. I do believe in the teachings Buddhism but I do not like the idea of exploiting the teachings and Steve jobs by a cult.

Read this mates:

http://blogs.dickinson.edu/buddhistethics/2012/07/17/esoteric-teaching-of-wat-phra-dhammakaya/

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[Para]

Meditation do not show anyone the afterlife, one needs to achieve Bodhisattva.

Sorry so meditation doesn't allow you to see the afterlife (not my choice of words) unless you are a Bodhisattva and then meditating does?

Isn't that a contradiction?

Edited August 26, 2012 by Para

[rics21]

unfortunately "half-yak stories" like this are putting off most people who are interested, respectively learn more about Buddhism

I agree. it is ridiculous stories like this that make Buddhists look silly.

Bankei

Its a cult. I don't see much of Buddhism teachings in a temple who exploit the death of Steve jobs.

The abbot told his followers that he found Steve jobs in afterlife during his mediation??? Steve was a Zen Buddhist who has no knowledge on the DMC cult?

Guess someone was holding on to the iPhone while mediating.

Most monks at the temple are generous enough to use the iPhone by Steve.

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[rics21]

Meditation do not show anyone the afterlife, one needs to achieve Bodhisattva.

Sorry so meditation doesn't allow you to see the afterlife (not my choice of words) unless you are a Bodhisattva and then meditating does?

Isn't that a contradiction?

To see or know about afterlife. One needs to achieve Bodhisattva, and it is not achievable by mediating nor doing merit.

Dharma/ karma is more than that.

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[rockyysdt]

I disagree they have to practice Dhamma and meditation to escape the lower 6 classes which have a physical form attached to them to enter the upper 10 classes which are formless.

Even at the 16th level they still endure samsara and it not until full enlightenment is attained and they pass to Nibbaba that their suffering/problems stop and life is as you say blissful.

This is all conjecture but if I am ever able to achieve even the lowest class I will try and get a message back letting people know what its like!

With metta

Phra Para

Hi Phra Para.

Isn't it much better to focus on the physical (here and now)?

According to the teaching you've been focusing on, the re birth your stream will generate will not be you.

Refer to SabaiJai's link:

http://www.dharmapun...om/rebirth.html

• In Buddhism, there is no static or permanent atman which is reincarnated.
  
• 
  
• The previous cuti-citta and next patisandhi-citta are not the same (cuti-citta is you, patisandhi-citta is the re born).
  
• 
  
• When the initial consciousness eventually falls away it conditions the next citta (state of consciousness) to arise.
  
• 
  
• This citta is the first bhavanga-citta (the undercurrent forming the condition of becoming, or subconsciousness) of a particular life.
  

The re born will be no more you than two computers loaded with almost identical programming are not the same.

Your effort will be for altruistic, not personal reasons as you will expire.

Isn't it much better to focus on the here and now and practice awareness in the present?

Realms may or may not be, but they should not make any difference to ones practice, otherwise it would suggest an attachment to aversion.

The aversion of wanting to avoid suffering, and the aversion of being no more when you expire.

Attachment to this aversion is capable of shipwrecking your practice as it grows your ego.

Edited August 26, 2012 by rockyysdt

[Para]

Isn't in much better to focus on the here and now and practice awareness in the present?

Realms may or may not be, but they should not make any difference to ones practice, otherwise it would suggest an attachment to aversion.

The aversion of wanting to avoid suffering.

I agree the here and now is the only real reality in life.

This whole thread is simply about opinions on what happens next there is no tangible proof. As you said in a previous post 'The sphere of infinite consciousness sounds like a good place to be.' and I agreed! My personal position on all of this is rather light hearted but am fascinated by some of the posts.

Living a mindful life regardless of what happens next should be reward enough.

[rockyysdt]

I agree the here and now is the only real reality in life.

This whole thread is simply about opinions on what happens next there is no tangible proof. As you said in a previous post 'The sphere of infinite consciousness sounds like a good place to be.' and I agreed! My personal position on all of this is rather light hearted but am fascinated by some of the posts.

Living a mindful life regardless of what happens next should be reward enough.

Sorry. Without the knowledge of lightheartedness involved, many of the posts appeared to be associated with strong belief.

I've often thought, what would the result be if travellors built their lives on the existence of realms only to find that they may only exist in the mind.

Especially when you consider much of what the Buddha taught was passed on verbally for a long time after his death, then written in an esoteric language only used by the religious castes, then translated into another dead language, then translated to others over centuries through different eyes and with different conditioning influencing them.

Nestled amongst Brahmanism, Jainism, Hinuism, and others, is it possible what the Buddha taught and what we are presented may differ?

Do not accept anything by mere tradition ... Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures ... Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your pre-conceived notions ... But when you know for yourselves—these things are moral, these things are blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and happiness—then do you live acting accordingly.

As you indicate, practice is best.

Edited August 26, 2012 by rockyysdt

[Para]

Sorry. Without the knowledge of lightheartedness involved, many of the posts appeared to be associated with strong belief.

I've often thought, what would the result be if travellors built their lives on the existence of realms only to find that they may only exist in the mind.

Nestled amongst Brahmanism, Jainism, Hinuism, and others, is it possible what the Buddha taught and what we are presented may differ?

Do not accept anything by mere tradition ... Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures ... Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your pre-conceived notions ... But when you know for yourselves—these things are moral, these things are blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and happiness—then do you live acting accordingly.

Of course there are strong beliefs regarding this as it is in effect the path to Nibbana something every Buddhist strives for.

I have also wondered if this is not all a huge con but realized even if it is so what because we have been mindful of our actions and considerate of others. Evan as a Monk if I was to die and be told there is no more I could still smile knowing I had learned to lead a better way of life. That alone is enough for me and goes back to your comment about 'living in the day'.

Anything is possible considering how long ago we are talking about who can judge if the Dhamma taught today is what Lord Buddha wanted to be taught?

The issue with this thread is we are talking about what is speculation based on what has been handed down as teachings and whilst it goes against the 'prove it for yourself' ideology we accept there is more to life than the here and now. Without that belief why would people make merit, be mindful embrace meditation?

Are we not in a catch 22 situation here by accepting what has been taught without the means to question and discover for ourselves?

Edited August 26, 2012 by Para

[Jawnie]

I agree the here and now is the only real reality in life.

This whole thread is simply about opinions on what happens next there is no tangible proof. As you said in a previous post 'The sphere of infinite consciousness sounds like a good place to be.' and I agreed! My personal position on all of this is rather light hearted but am fascinated by some of the posts.

Living a mindful life regardless of what happens next should be reward enough.

Sorry. Without the knowledge of lightheartedness involved, many of the posts appeared to be associated with strong belief.

I've often thought, what would the result be if travellors built their lives on the existence of realms only to find that they may only exist in the mind.

Especially when you consider much of what the Buddha taught was passed on verbally for a long time after his death, then written in an esoteric language only used by the religious castes, then translated into another dead language, then translated to others over centuries through different eyes and with different conditioning influencing them.

Nestled amongst Brahmanism, Jainism, Hinuism, and others, is it possible what the Buddha taught and what we are presented may differ?

Do not accept anything by mere tradition ... Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures ... Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your pre-conceived notions ... But when you know for yourselves—these things are moral, these things are blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and happiness—then do you live acting accordingly.

As you indicate, practice is best.

To say this is to negate the Four Thoughts that Turn the Mind:

1. The rarity of human rebirth.

2. Impermanence and death.

3. The defects of samsara.

4. Cause and effect, ie., karma.

I think trying to lay the 'blame' for disagreement at the feet of dead or esoteric languages is a bit of a cop out.

To say that only what you believe the Buddha taught the only true teachings, negates those very teachings. Why? Because it means that only one person, the Buddha himself, has realized the final goal of Dharma practice and that no others have.

Why do I say this? Because some insist that any teaching not spoken directly by the Buddha (at least from their own perspective) can not be relied upon as authentic Dharma. It means that throughout all history since the Buddha, there has not been a single individual who has achieved the final goal of Dharma practice.

Perhaps this is because Theravadins believe the final goal is extinction and those beings pass out of existence, hence they aren't around to say so. To say this is to say that Dharma practice ultimately to a dead end. For the other schools, this is not the case.

But, rockyysdt, if you are referring to the fact that the sutras were translated into Tibetan (and Chinese), and that in this process the authenticity or effectiveness of the teachings was compromised, and that Tibetan language is a 'dead' language, I'd say you need to study that period and process much more closely. Many sutras are in Chinese as well, and in some instances, only the Chinese and/or Tibetan versions of sutras exist with the Sanskrit versions being lost.

[camerata]

This whole thread is simply about opinions on what happens next there is no tangible proof.

The question I'd be asking is whether the whole rigmarole is possible according to the Pali canon.

One of the abbot's claims is that Jobs is now all blissed out and grateful after receiving a stream of light and a sparkling crystal projected by a group of Dhammakaya followers into the centre of his body. I don't need to check to know that this isn't in any orthodox scripture.

The ability to see a being's karmic destination is one of the three wisdoms (tevijja), known as divine eye (dibba-cakkhu). It's known from the suttas that the Buddha had this. According to Wiki, attaining the 4th jhana gives one this ability, but it doesn't provide a reference. I'll bet it's a commentary.

Actually, it should be quite easy to prove the divine eye. Simply take two practitioners with divine eye, separate them, and ask them both what happened to Jobs. If the divine eye works, they should both come up with the same answer. Unless... it depends exactly how this works. If the practitioner has to actually have known Jobs and used some kind of telepathic power with him, it wouldn't be possible, and Dhammakaya are having us on.

If there's no need to have known Jobs personally, how would they identify our Steve Jobs from all the others in the various realms? Presumably, they'd have to know something about him and his life. But every article I read about Jobs portrays him differently, and how could anyone know everything that went on in his life? This means that our two different practitioners would have to be given identical biodata on Jobs or they would necessarily come up with different results because of different input. GIGO, as they say in the computer world.

Personally, I wouldn't set much store by Dhammakaya's claim. I'm guessing when the Buddha used his divine eye (in the canon, not the commentaries) it was always with someone he knew personally.

[fabianfred]

Meditation do not show anyone the afterlife, one needs to achieve Bodhisattva. I do believe in the teachings Buddhism but I do not like the idea of exploiting the teachings and Steve jobs by a cult.

Read this mates:

http://blogs.dickins...hra-dhammakaya/

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I read that article and it is plain that it is a cult.

Giving special meditation sessions with the Abbot to those who make progress, and those who are big donors!

Punishing those who leave the temple by saying they will be reborn in hell....and the same to anyone not following the temple line and having doubts about the Abbot's teachings and status.

The abbot seems to put his own status above the Buddha, virtually claiming to be God and having created the Universe and Nibbana etc.

He has probably fallen from being a monk by the parajika rules a long time ago.

If you read the book i recommended about the life of mae chi Gaew you will realise that great attainments in Samatha meditation and achieving the high jhanas can be a hinderance and cause one to lose the path.

This Abbot has obviously lost the plot....all the marks of a cult.

Edited August 26, 2012 by fabianfred

[meadish_sweetball]

This is true, assuming that the writer is making correct claims, and does not write this in spite because he has an ax to grind after breaking with the group. The accusations are serious, so I wonder what response they will get.

[rockyysdt]

To say this is to negate the Four Thoughts that Turn the Mind:

1. The rarity of human rebirth.

2. Impermanence and death.

3. The defects of samsara.

4. Cause and effect, ie., karma.

I think trying to lay the 'blame' for disagreement at the feet of dead or esoteric languages is a bit of a cop out.

To say that only what you believe the Buddha taught the only true teachings, negates those very teachings. Why? Because it means that only one person, the Buddha himself, has realized the final goal of Dharma practice and that no others have.

Why do I say this? Because some insist that any teaching not spoken directly by the Buddha (at least from their own perspective) can not be relied upon as authentic Dharma. It means that throughout all history since the Buddha, there has not been a single individual who has achieved the final goal of Dharma practice.

Perhaps this is because Theravadins believe the final goal is extinction and those beings pass out of existence, hence they aren't around to say so. To say this is to say that Dharma practice ultimately to a dead end. For the other schools, this is not the case.

But, rockyysdt, if you are referring to the fact that the sutras were translated into Tibetan (and Chinese), and that in this process the authenticity or effectiveness of the teachings was compromised, and that Tibetan language is a 'dead' language, I'd say you need to study that period and process much more closely. Many sutras are in Chinese as well, and in some instances, only the Chinese and/or Tibetan versions of sutras exist with the Sanskrit versions being lost.

Hi J.

I thought I had indicated that I keep an open mind.

To have uncritical enthusiasm on any one possibility is to become attached.

I keep an open mind to both metaphysical and living possibilities and explore the answers through practice.

The final goal, whatever that turns out to be, is open to all through practice.

The problem with attachment to what that final goal is is a hinderance and can grow the ego.

I'm not sure where "extinction" comes into it, but if you mean that some believe that upon death we expire, then the Buddhas 'awakening' in this lifetime is still very worth while as it has allowed you to realize your full potential.

Whether awakening/nibbanna is a final place where one dwells free of re birth, or whether it is the unlocking of our true state in this life free from greed aversion and delusion, practice is worthwhile.

Isn't practice with preconceaved ideas something the Buddha warned against (Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your pre-conceived notions)?

In terms of interpretations over the years, not only were there language obstacles, but there were also cultural and religious barriers which would have filtered what was being interpreted.

If you commission a Christian to interpret ancient works they will arrive at a different conclusion to a Brahmanist for example.

Also, being open to the existense of a sense of humour can allow different interpretations over those who are highly literal and without humour.

Edited August 27, 2012 by rockyysdt

[rockyysdt]

Without that belief why would people make merit, be mindful embrace meditation?

Practice will reveal all.

This is why practice is paramount.

Everything else is a discussion or a belief.

For me a motivator of practice, apart from the potential to be liberated from greed aversion and delusion, is to learn to cultivate Metta, Karuna, Mudita, and Upekka.

To be able to see the pain and suffering in another, as though it is ours, allowing us to look outward away from ourselves (ego).

If everyone practiced this imagine how much better our world would be.

Rather than embracing a belief to save ones skin from suffering, much better to practice to become a better person, with metta, karuna, mudita, and upekka radiating outward from ones heart.

Edited August 27, 2012 by rockyysdt

[Several]

This is one of those things that makes wonder what the point of merit is. Its not a bojjhanga so it does not lead to enlightenment. Mr. Jobs is a toothy giant living in the same zip code for a few aeons until he's reborn as what? An angry midget? Many monks 'sell' it as though it were a stock comodity. Oh, you could be born the son of a millionaire who owns, say, Red Bull. Then drive your ferrari into a policeman at 200 kph while drunk. Hooray.

Cynical? Totally. The very idea of merit creates desire and the cash aquisition of it too often inflates the ego of donors, who then believe they are better than others.

If you're going to suffer, then suffer mindfully. Telling the laity they can postpone it in some costa-del-Loka timeshare resort is wrong, insidious and not aimed at ending suffering.

Just as a side rant, saying a being is a half-yak is idiotic. It implies parentage, geneology. As said before, Deva type beings don't procreate. So whats the other half? Naga? Human? Rat? I certainly smell one.

[sabaijai]

I'm imagining one half of Jobs is giant and the other half is normal sized. Must look strange

[beautifulthailand99]

Given the conditions and the dehumanising way that tech companies such as Apple exploit Chinese labour to create a demand for ever more complex gadgets that most of us neither need nor can afford I suspect Steve Jobs is not on his way to Buddhist. Where is the compassion and mindfullness to allow this to happen in the name of profit ?

Edited September 14, 2012 by beautifulthailand99