ScouseTommy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The stop and search is legal. However the fact they ignore taxi's full of Thai clubbers on their way to Whip and Narz, and all pilled up; In order to focus on farangs, tells its own story. Furthermore when they search and check the minute crevices on the inside of your wallet looking for the merest trace of powder it is again obvious what they are doing. Conducting the search efficiently and completely? Selective policing is not racism, it's manpower management. if a particular group of officers is tasked with deterring tourists using drugs that is what they do. There are other larger, less polite groups tasked with deterring drug use amongst nationals and they usually do it in much more invasive way. I am not sure if this is true or not, however I have been told by a Thai friend a lot of these search points are solely tasked with finding driving offences, drink driving speeding etc? Selective policing is not racist? OK so we know in the U.K. the major terrorist threat is from islamist extremists is it ok if they only stop muslims? In the Borough of Hackney in London over 90% of crime is done by Young black or turkish males, is it ok to just stop and search these ethnicities? I ask because I know for a fact this has been deemed racist in the U.K. (rightly or wrongly). Lastly when I am in a shirt and tie and have been at a friends teaching his GF English then a beer and food, then a taxi home am I in some high risk drug user group? The vast majority of drug users in Thailand are Thai. If they are tasked with drug suppression/detection then they should target all ethnicities particularly the biggest user group. However they do not. They blatantly stop farang and allow anyone else to continue unmolested. Some cynics may say that this is due to the (misconception) that all farang will have money to pay big fine!! Next efficiently and completely sorry but just stopped laughing at that comment. Sometimes (not all the time) these stops border on intimidation. I was stood by the restaurant next to Ekkamai police station. Two police officers drove past then did a U-Turn and stopped and searched me. They asked what I was doing and where was I going. I explained into the restaurant behind me and waiting for my girlfriend to get off the BTS. They were blunt and rude despite my excessive politeness (in Thai). The first search (unsurprisingly) turned up nothing. The younger officer then (quite roughly and with a certain amount of frustration) began to search me again until his older partner told him in thai to stop. I believe he told him to stop because by now the staff had come to watch. They halted a bit abruptly and said two words "you go" and pointed off up sukhumvit. I politely wai'd them and being disinclined to follow there directions went into the restaurant and safety. This was hugely embarrassing, a huge loss of face and a complete fishing expedition. The staff were excellent asking me if I was ok, and telling me (in thai) the police are bad and to stay away from them. I am all for law and order and the use of stop and search with 'REASONABLE' grounds. This example and many other stops here are more intimidation the reasonable. Do you still think these upstanding officers were simply doing their jobs efficiently, because this example is one of a multitude on here. Certainly not a rare occurence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseTommy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 sorry i hate using multi quote so- necronx99 There are desks within SO13 the Police counter terrorist group in the UK who solely concentrate on Islamist extremisim. There are also other desks for other types e.g. domestic etc. However they sift through Intell and conduct investigations. They do not EVER go out on the streets with a remit to stop Muslims and search them. I bet every Pound you are worth, that this is fact. I know because I have worked closely with them in the past! British police have to have 'legal' grounds for suspicion when they stop you. They have to tell you exactly why they stopped you and the grounds they are using. When they are finished they have to give you a written form explaining it all as well. Am sure there have been very bad stops done in the UK, however these would be deemed illegal. It is common place for evidence and even whole cases to be thrown out of court because of bad stop and search. I dont want to seem like I am against being stopped and searched. I have nothing to hide and I am not. However I am against being stopped time and again simply because I am farang. I am against 'any' police force targeting one ethnicity or group over all the others. I am against Users being targeted over the suppliers. I am against blatantly ignoring your own ethnicities penchance for drug use in order to target another. Anyone who doesnt believe this is happening can observe tonight or tomorrow on Sukhumvit probably somewhere between Ekkamai and Asok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ableguy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Being drunk in a public place would be against the law, so you would not admit to that. Similarly you would not be with a prostitute as, prostitution is basically illegal. Not going to get into any argument whether you must carry your passport or not, but it is required that everybody carry identification. The op does not indicate that he had any identification. The police officer could therefore take you to the police station until your identity could be verified. Of course, if you had nothing to hide you could let him check your pockets and you are on your way. That's just a long way of agreeing with necronx99 "Yes they can and no, it's not really.' The only problem here is they can plant something and the BKK scunbags are capable of doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ableguy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 sorry i hate using multi quote so- necronx99 There are desks within SO13 the Police counter terrorist group in the UK who solely concentrate on Islamist extremisim. There are also other desks for other types e.g. domestic etc. However they sift through Intell and conduct investigations. They do not EVER go out on the streets with a remit to stop Muslims and search them. I bet every Pound you are worth, that this is fact. I know because I have worked closely with them in the past! British police have to have 'legal' grounds for suspicion when they stop you. They have to tell you exactly why they stopped you and the grounds they are using. When they are finished they have to give you a written form explaining it all as well. Am sure there have been very bad stops done in the UK, however these would be deemed illegal. It is common place for evidence and even whole cases to be thrown out of court because of bad stop and search. I dont want to seem like I am against being stopped and searched. I have nothing to hide and I am not. However I am against being stopped time and again simply because I am farang. I am against 'any' police force targeting one ethnicity or group over all the others. I am against Users being targeted over the suppliers. I am against blatantly ignoring your own ethnicities penchance for drug use in order to target another. Anyone who doesnt believe this is happening can observe tonight or tomorrow on Sukhumvit probably somewhere between Ekkamai and Asok. Get used to it, you must be aware how corrupt they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renbe Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 In many EU countries one could be taken to the police station for not being able to show proper identification. Photocopies are not allowed in the EU countries I am familiar with. Nowadays even in once liberal countries like Holland there similar check points, where cars, drivers and passengers are subject to agonizing scrutiny, and where both car is searched through and people are thoroughly frisked. The few experiences I had with Thai police in the 3 years that I lived here have all been excellent. Speeding some 30 km/h was rewarded with a 400 baht fine, payable on the spot, and a parking offense, normal fee 400 baht, was reduced to 200 baht when I told the police officer at the police station that I was not aware of that particular rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ableguy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 All these comparisons.... In the US,Australia, UK, all these bastions of civilization,freedom and rights your governments willingness to kill you is their only real control. And at times they do demonstrate it just to remind everyone. You can be put to death for not paying a bus fare. Don't pay the ticket and they will send a sheriff to confiscate property. Try to protect your property and you will be clubbed. Try to defend yourself from being clubbed and your will be shot to death. All for the lack of $2.50 The rule of law operates its own consistent logic. In Thailand, however, such a consistency is considerably different than in the West. This could be good or bad depending on the situation, as your vignette has just shown. What a crock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseTommy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I am used to it, sadly enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseTommy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I goto Thai nightclubs and have been forced to p*ss in a cup a bit humiliatingbut could hardly complain as they targeted everyone. This is very different to the 'selective policing' you were championing earlier and completely besides the point mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necronx99 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I goto Thai nightclubs and have been forced to p*ss in a cup a bit humiliatingbut could hardly complain as they targeted everyone. This is very different to the 'selective policing' you were championing earlier and completely besides the point mate! BS. They have two separate classes here, drug use by tourists and drug use by Thais. they largely police them in different ways with the Thais getting the short end of the stick. What are you complaining about? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sysardman Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) How dare you, people can compare RTP to any western police? Its beyond me, it let me completely speechless. In UK i never heard tourist got shot by drunken police, and never got justice? But in thailand it does happen, do you remember Joe Del Pinto, shot by a cop in Pai? Sometimes i wonder if all these nonsensical message are not wrote by only 1 guy who hold many account on TV. Canot believe there are so many stupid people around... You must walk around with your eyes shut - in the UK there are many instance besides the Tomlinson case of people dying in custody or resisting arrest. If you check on Youtube there's tons of video evidence of people being shot by US police under dubious circumstance. Its just been in the news recently about a coloured guy being shot in a hail of 46 bullets (Google it) when all he had was a knife - what happened to tasers???? Edited August 23, 2012 by sysardman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseTommy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 For a start I have been polite I have not sworn at you for having a particular point of view and I dont expect you to do it to me. I think it is crystal clear what I am complaining about I have said it in 3 replies to you, Im not going to take up space by multi-quoting it back to you. TBH if you want to blindly support all RTP activity then feel free I dont really care. I have a point of view gained through experience. My experiences are not unique, not even uncommon. I think I have stated what my issues are and also given a balanced point of view. I am NOT against drug suppression or stop and search. However I am never going to convince someone like you, so I wont try!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sysardman Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 For a start I have been polite I have not sworn at you for having a particular point of view and I dont expect you to do it to me. I think it is crystal clear what I am complaining about I have said it in 3 replies to you, Im not going to take up space by multi-quoting it back to you. TBH if you want to blindly support all RTP activity then feel free I dont really care. I have a point of view gained through experience. My experiences are not unique, not even uncommon. I think I have stated what my issues are and also given a balanced point of view. I am NOT against drug suppression or stop and search. However I am never going to convince someone like you, so I wont try!! I'm not sure if your reply was directed at me but if it was then at no point in my post did I swear at you. As for my views on the RTP, I am not whole-heartedly supporting them but I do get upset when people say they are such devils and the western police are such angels. I'd say they're about par, some good some bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necronx99 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 All these comparisons.... In the US,Australia, UK, all these bastions of civilization,freedom and rights your governments willingness to kill you is their only real control. And at times they do demonstrate it just to remind everyone. You can be put to death for not paying a bus fare. Don't pay the ticket and they will send a sheriff to confiscate property. Try to protect your property and you will be clubbed. Try to defend yourself from being clubbed and your will be shot to death. All for the lack of $2.50 The rule of law operates its own consistent logic. In Thailand, however, such a consistency is considerably different than in the West. This could be good or bad depending on the situation, as your vignette has just shown. What a crock. Are you saying that in a country with all those rights and freedoms you would be able to protect your property from theft or your person from assault? Try it. Get someone to come back to us with how it all worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseTommy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 not diected at you sysardman directed at the poster who put BS next to what i'd written Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseTommy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Syardman I actually agree with you, looking at the current state of affairs in the west and the U.S. in particular the RTP are definitely not all bad. My complaint was solely to do with the actual topic and the targeted stop and search of farang in Taxi's of a night at the exclusion of all others. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpuumike Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Whatever faults they might have, I prefer the Royal Thai Police. You have to kidding yourself. This is a police blunder, and yes it does happen in western country, but its not the norm. Police blunder are serious matter in europe. Agree. Not the norm, but frequently happens. If it 'frequently happens' then it's not the norm? Police blunders in Europe (or at least the UK) seem to be rewarded with a promotion, suspended duty on a good salary, or a substantial retirement 'bonus'. Thankfully I am not contributing to any of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sysardman Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) For a start I have been polite I have not sworn at you for having a particular point of view and I dont expect you to do it to me. I think it is crystal clear what I am complaining about I have said it in 3 replies to you, Im not going to take up space by multi-quoting it back to you. TBH if you want to blindly support all RTP activity then feel free I dont really care. I have a point of view gained through experience. My experiences are not unique, not even uncommon. I think I have stated what my issues are and also given a balanced point of view. I am NOT against drug suppression or stop and search. However I am never going to convince someone like you, so I wont try!! I'm not sure if your reply was directed at me but if it was then at no point in my post did I swear at you. As for my views on the RTP, I am not whole-heartedly supporting them but I do get upset when people say they are such devils and the western police are such angels. I'd say they're about par, some good some bad. Woops sorry got my posters confused with there being no reference quote. Anyway my concern is the adoption of tasers as non-lethal force by western police. This same technology is used in hospitals to stop and start people hearts so it stands to reason that if the taser electrodes are placed around the heart area there's a good chance of killing somebody. PS I know in a previous post about the guy dying under a hail of 46 bullets and I suggested a taser. In that situation the guy may just have survived a taser but definitely not 46 bullets. Edited August 23, 2012 by sysardman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseTommy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 " if the taser electrodes are placed around the heart area there's a good chance of killing somebody." I have added a link, am not sure this is allowed but if MODS are on and this is a violation then please remove for me and accept my apologies- http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-02/taser-study-deaths/54688110/1 I dont think there is definitive evidence that conclusively proves Tasers can kill. However it stands to reason if you have a heart condition and you are tasered things are not going to go well for you. There is also the problem of the barbs on the taser these cause injury and have to be removed in a Hospital. I wonder how many prisoners are actually taken to hospital for removal? Im on the fence a little bit with this issue. I dont have a weak heart and would rather be faced with a taser than a glock!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkok101 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Ok, so lets wrap this up for the OP. He was traveling late at night in an area notorious for dodgy stuff. He was legally stopped and searched and briefly questioned and despite breaking the law by not carrying his passport the police let him continue on his way without penalty after finding no illicit substances on his person. The bastards... And no,Thailand is not a democracy, not really. what does democracy have to do with any of this? The rights of people during a police search fall under the category of civil and constitutional rights and liberties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiinasia Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Hands in pockets? My gawd are the police that desperate for a customer? Why don't they just drop a pill on the ground and say "What did you drop mate?" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The thread thus far clearly shows how much the experiences with the Police of the posters on TV.com varies in both Thailand and their home countries. In some cases I'm quite shocked at the level of miss-treatment at the hands of the Thai Police force. I do believe that you can be firm with the Police, do not allow yourself to be intimidated. IMO: Much of the response of the Police is down to your behaviour upon interaction. Behave like an overly polite scared wimp and you'll see them walking all over you, embarrassing you, pushing the limits and acting with impunity. Behave too strongly and impolitely and you may see them employing force, although I've never heard of this. IMO: Depending on the attitude of the officer: IF they are direct and rude mirror their behaviour and in many cases you will see them back down - they are just trying to bully weak people. If they are very polite mirror their behaviour and be polite back and let them do what they need to do and get on your way - these guys are simply doing their job. What happened to ScouseTommy perhaps only happened because the RTP knew he was from Liverpool ( sorry, couldn't resist that one !)... But really the Police in this instance were shocking. This is when a friend in the right place can work wonders with a well placed phone call. A few months ago my Wife and I were in a taxi going to a friends house (not driving as we were about to drink): The Police stopped the taxi and looked in the door at me. He tried to look intimidating but I was pretty pissed that they'd just stopped the taxi (we were running late) I simply eyeballed the Policeman for about 10 seconds and he waved us along. I'm not sure if he profiled us or simply evaluated that I will not submit readily to potential extortion, or it could have been that I was with my Thai Wife. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseTommy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 kiwi, dont be giving them idea's!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseTommy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Richard, abuse of scousers will not be tolerated LOL Actually your half right. I have a shaved head (baldness) and I have Tattoo's (legacy from the army). I accept they make me look a certain way. I accept being stopped although it doesnt make me a happy camper! I just dont accept intimidation, rudeness, bullying or policing a tiny proportion of a population and leaving everyone else! Anyway it's friday tomorrow so off for a pint and my usual stop and search on sukkers!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommoPhysicist Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The problems are systemic, not just a few bad cases. Unlike in Thailand, in the UK there is an Independent Police Complaints Commission; yet the reality is that rigid evidence shows that most complaints to the IPCC never make it. For those few that are taken, up a substantial amount is drop on the way, and when the IPCC does take up a case (due to the pressure of the media) the Crown Prosecution Service drops it --as the death of Ian Tomlinson has shown-- until in rare instances and under very lucky circumstance a parliamentary inquiry overturns this. Indeed one can easily ask one's "friendly Bobby" on the street for direction, but it does make policing in the UK less problematic than it is in Thailand. Most complaints are not upheld because they're not valid. The average Brit has faith in their police service, the average Thai despises theirs. I don't believe you have much knowledge on this subject. Unfortunately I do. The IPCC are there to 'rubber stamp' police actions as lawful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sysardman Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 " if the taser electrodes are placed around the heart area there's a good chance of killing somebody." I have added a link, am not sure this is allowed but if MODS are on and this is a violation then please remove for me and accept my apologies- http://www.usatoday....aths/54688110/1 I dont think there is definitive evidence that conclusively proves Tasers can kill. However it stands to reason if you have a heart condition and you are tasered things are not going to go well for you. There is also the problem of the barbs on the taser these cause injury and have to be removed in a Hospital. I wonder how many prisoners are actually taken to hospital for removal? Im on the fence a little bit with this issue. I dont have a weak heart and would rather be faced with a taser than a glock!! Thanks again for your forgiveness and I compliment you on the link you provided as it does back up my argument - didn't realise it was as many as 500 deaths. Tasers are a very grey area and I don't think the police check a suspects medical record before deploying it. I've also seen on Youtube where tasers have been used in really controversial circumstances (like an unarmed lady creating a fuss in a shopping mall) just because it's an accepted method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommoPhysicist Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) " if the taser electrodes are placed around the heart area there's a good chance of killing somebody." I have added a link, am not sure this is allowed but if MODS are on and this is a violation then please remove for me and accept my apologies- http://www.usatoday....aths/54688110/1 I dont think there is definitive evidence that conclusively proves Tasers can kill. However it stands to reason if you have a heart condition and you are tasered things are not going to go well for you. There is also the problem of the barbs on the taser these cause injury and have to be removed in a Hospital. I wonder how many prisoners are actually taken to hospital for removal? Im on the fence a little bit with this issue. I dont have a weak heart and would rather be faced with a taser than a glock!! When you issue police with a non-lethal weapon, they will use it as a matter of course. When they have a gun, there would be a lot more explaining for them to do. Better they have a Glock IMHO. Next time you are in that situation try a little taunting, "Go on then mate, do it if you dare" Try it first facing a policeman with a Glock. Then try it again facing a policeman with a Tasar. I think we can all predict the outcome. Edited August 23, 2012 by TommoPhysicist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rott Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Syardman I actually agree with you, looking at the current state of affairs in the west and the U.S. in particular the RTP are definitely not all bad. My complaint was solely to do with the actual topic and the targeted stop and search of farang in Taxi's of a night at the exclusion of all others. Cheers So you agree with him that Thai police are ''about par'' with western police?? I think you didn't read his post properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseTommy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I have some knowledge on the IPCC as well. They are hated by the British police and the police federation. So rubber stamping police actions maybe a bit far fetched. However the IPCC are a political entity and it is rarely convenient for a government to have its police force shown as doing wrong or being corrupt. I think any pressure on or within the IPCC comes from on high and is not due to a cosy relationship with the British police!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseTommy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Maybe i didnt- about par is pushing it a bit. RTP are under payed and under trained. When they join it is to an established *alleged* corrupt organisation, where you join in or get out 'according to popular belief'. Therefore they are definitely not on par with the agencies of the west. I agree'd with the other poster in respect to his lethal force issue, and to say not all RTP are bad or corrupt. In fact I have met some really good people who are RTP. Also that Western agencies have a lot of issues themselves. This is being shown more and more on Western TV and on you tube. Point taken though. Next time I'll read a complete post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sysardman Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) Syardman I actually agree with you, looking at the current state of affairs in the west and the U.S. in particular the RTP are definitely not all bad. My complaint was solely to do with the actual topic and the targeted stop and search of farang in Taxi's of a night at the exclusion of all others. Cheers So you agree with him that Thai police are ''about par'' with western police?? I think you didn't read his post properly. Racial profiling is rife in western police forces so is it such a surprise to find it here. I have been stopped quite a few times by the BiB and they check my papers which I make sure are correct and they see my Thai family and I get a smile and waved on. If we go back to the post that started this then the OP did not have ID and was therefore technically breaking the law and in my opinion he was very lucky he didn't have to pay a fine or whatever. To @rott I suggest dying your skin black when you return home and see what your opinion to western police is then. Edited August 23, 2012 by sysardman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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