Break Even Owning A Bar?

[gk10002000]

I can retire and more then make ends meet. However, for various reasons, I am still kicking around the idea of some business in Thailand. What is the general concensus on owning a bar there? Say one of the middle sized ones that are on Soi 7. Can you make a profit? Is it worth the headaches of the Copyright police, whatever graft the local cops might pressure you for, legal insurance, frivolous law suits, key money, health inspectors, hiring/firing staff, finding decent girl staff, filing Thai and US business taxes, and all the other details? I assume that one of the key things would be to have a good Thai "partner" or mama san type of manager. Would seem to be invaluable when deailing with all the Thai infrastructure. How many of the bars on Soi 7 and Soi 8 are owned by foreigners versus Thais? Any?

Thanks

[William Osborne]

here we go ... anyway, quick answer............. noooooooooooooooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[breadbin]

I say go for it.

[hotandhumid]

I assume you are knocking on a bit if you can retire, if that is the case why do you want to spend your evenings hanging around grotty bars in Pattaya? Not where I would want to be later in life.

Edited August 22, 2012 by hotandhumid

[Ling Kae]

I have been a bar drinker for 20 years or so in Pattaya. My opinion is that if you have the right location, right prices, good looking bar girls, right lady/guy partner/management then it can work. There are many farang owned bars making money and most have been there for years.

The ones that fail are missing one of the above.

I also believe that if you don't need the money then don't bother, leave your money invested in your home country and collect the dividends/interest is far less problems, enjoy Pattaya without taking a risk.

As for bar ownerships in Pattaya, real rough figures based on several years of floating around I would estimate 25% farang owned verses 75% Thai owned. I've seen both Thai owned bars and farang bars disappear within a year, just missing one of the above, good luck.

[Satcommlee]

Either you are coming to Pattaya to Retire, or you are coming to Pattaya to run a bar and work.

Without your constant attention and hard work, you probably would not succeed.

Leave it all to Thai staff, you'll probably be rippped off.

In my opinion, it is not worth opening a bar in Soi 7, when the local government is rumoured to be actively trying to move such sleaze to inner pattaya (Soi Baukhao etc.)

[smokie36]

If you want to work 12+ hours a day then go for it.

[yogi100]

Of the few Falang bar owners I know the majority regret the day they got into the game. Most of them have struggled to just break even, worried about the plod's tea money, worried about the rent going up, worried about the renewal of their lease, worried about having the right music licence, worried about staff ripping them off and have had to spend all day, every day at the bar to welcome their handful of customers.

Others have blown their retirement savings and had to go home with their tails between their legs. One of them had a bar in Soi Honey Inn and died of a heart attack aged just 43 having just got back from Australia where he'd had to sell his belongings to raise the cash in order to keep his bar open.

The saying about how to make a small fortune in Thailand was not coined in jest.

[gk10002000]

All comments greatly appreciated. Seems to be in line with my general observations on my 13 or so visits there since 2004. I thought the percentage of falang owners would be a bit higher than one person estimated. And I do agree that there is a quiet push to get the bars away from the water. Obviously some developers will want the "ocean view" for their dream hotels that are on the drawing boards. Man I miss Pattaya of even a few years ago, before that latest Eastiny hotel got built.

I am 55 and was just kicking it around as a thing to do. I am a lightweight drinker and spent more time than I liked in High School and College taking care of the famly lounge so I really wasn't looking to do this as my chief goal. But there were reasons to consider it. A good friend of mine was also interested in splitting the "watchkeeper" duties in Thailand. He is more seasoned than I am.

Kind of reminds me of Branson and when someone asked him how to become a millionaire: He said something like. "it is easy. First get a billion dollars, then buy an airline".

I think I will just keep working my contractor/consultant schedule here in the USA and just take longer holidays.

Thanks

[Exsexyman]

All comments greatly appreciated. Seems to be in line with my general observations on my 13 or so visits there since 2004. I thought the percentage of falang owners would be a bit higher than one person estimated. And I do agree that there is a quiet push to get the bars away from the water. Obviously some developers will want the "ocean view" for their dream hotels that are on the drawing boards. Man I miss Pattaya of even a few years ago, before that latest Eastiny hotel got built.

I am 55 and was just kicking it around as a thing to do. I am a lightweight drinker and spent more time than I liked in High School and College taking care of the famly lounge so I really wasn't looking to do this as my chief goal. But there were reasons to consider it. A good friend of mine was also interested in splitting the "watchkeeper" duties in Thailand. He is more seasoned than I am.

Kind of reminds me of Branson and when someone asked him how to become a millionaire: He said something like. "it is easy. First get a billion dollars, then buy an airline".

I think I will just keep working my contractor/consultant schedule here in the USA and just take longer holidays.

Thanks

Sounds like you have got your head screwed on.Many falang bar owners cannot even answer the telephone, stock the bar up, order the stock etc, they have to rely on a trusted mamasan to do this for them. Easier said than done.I have been here long enough, and have heard so many horror stories about falangs who have come here and invested their money in a bar. They have to be there all night, watching what is going on so many have been ripped off. Very few make a living. My advice is, don't even think about it.

[gk10002000]

The extra downside as a US citizen is the "Internal Revenue Service" our taxman. One of the great "priviledges" of being a US citizen is having to report any and all business activities around the globe and usually being liable to pay US taxes on money earned overseas. I have enough headaches now with US taxes just because I work in different US states. I am an engineer and I hate arbitrary inefficiency and stupid reporting. Thanks again all.

[Scottythai]

I own one and am partners in another. 2 shots of advice.

1) don't buy one in Phuket/Pattaya/Bangkok/Chewang

2) make it memorable. My small bar down south does very well but it's only across the road from the ocean. View is the draw.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Rimmer
Overlarge picture upsetting the format

[PattayaPhom]

Open a laundry instead

[gk10002000]

I own one and am partners in another. 2 shots of advice.

1) don't buy one in Phuket/Pattaya/Bangkok/Chewang

2) make it memorable. My small bar down south does very well but it's only across the road from the ocean. View is the draw.

Yeah. I understand the memorable angle. Need something that makes it stand out from the rest. Actually comfortable seats to sit in with some cushions, a view, a better layout, other bar intangibles.

[Scottythai]

I own one and am partners in another. 2 shots of advice.

1) don't buy one in Phuket/Pattaya/Bangkok/Chewang

2) make it memorable. My small bar down south does very well but it's only across the road from the ocean. View is the draw.

Yeah. I understand the memorable angle. Need something that makes it stand out from the rest. Actually comfortable seats to sit in with some cushions, a view, a better layout, other bar intangibles.

Yes sir! I put a beer pong table in the bangkok bar. Its simple and draws the party people.

[gk10002000]

My dad owned and ran the "best" bar/lounge in Providence Rhode Island called Murphy's. He was the consumate bar keep. He knew people and faces and just was entertaining to the bar crowd. That was the schtick as they say. And we made great sandwiches and sides all night long. God how many drunks I jump started cars for or drove home at 2 am with the temperature 15 F outside in the winter! Unfortunately he had horrible financial sense, despite knowing and hanging out with hoards of white collar folks like lawyers, stock brokers, bank VPs etc. Lots of angles to running a succesful place. The ladies are nice, but .... need some other things.

Best of luck

[necronx99]

I own one and am partners in another. 2 shots of advice.

1) don't buy one in Phuket/Pattaya/Bangkok/Chewang

2) make it memorable. My small bar down south does very well but it's only across the road from the ocean. View is the draw.

nice spot.

fix your lawn.

[easyride]

I have been a bar drinker for 20 years or so in Pattaya. My opinion is that if you have the right location, right prices, good looking bar girls, right lady/guy partner/management then it can work. There are many farang owned bars making money and most have been there for years.

The ones that fail are missing one of the above.

I also believe that if you don't need the money then don't bother, leave your money invested in your home country and collect the dividends/interest is far less problems, enjoy Pattaya without taking a risk.

As for bar ownerships in Pattaya, real rough figures based on several years of floating around I would estimate 25% farang owned verses 75% Thai owned. I've seen both Thai owned bars and farang bars disappear within a year, just missing one of the above, good luck.

And (unfortunately) most Thai owned bars put up thier prices as business falls thereby driving away the few customers that are left.

[gerry53]

OP you are obviously aware of the potential problems, corruption, theft from employees, etc in owning and running a bar. Why would you want to spend 12 hours plus each day managing one when you have enough assets to retire ??? Most of us retire because we want to leave the rat race, you seem to want to jump back in? If you are bored try a hobby you enjoy where you can possibly earn income without risk or capital or manage your own money.

Why would you want to work these kinds of hours to "break even" when you don't need too financially? Keeping busy is healthy but there are so many other things to do here.

[Morakot]

If you want to work 12+ hours a day then go for it.

Or if you think, you'll be the "best customer" yourself, go for it. But it might not work in the long run in terms of breaking even.

[meatboy]

i saw enough in the 80's in patts when it was booming with little trouble, now break even, it will break your heart

[quadrant]

The extra downside as a US citizen is the "Internal Revenue Service" our taxman. One of the great "priviledges" of being a US citizen is having to report any and all business activities around the globe and usually being liable to pay US taxes on money earned overseas. I have enough headaches now with US taxes just because I work in different US states. I am an engineer and I hate arbitrary inefficiency and stupid reporting. Thanks again all.

apparently, there are quite a number of people returning their US citizenship because of those new regulations. maybe you should consider that. i heard montenegro is accepting new citizens. if you are lucky, you even might end up becoming the neighbor of someone who knows a lot about thailand and doing business here. i'm sure he could give you some useful tips.

cheers

[dazk]

yes you will make good money in a bar that is managed right

you need to be there 24 /7 with a thai partner you trust 100% i mean like partner as in a relationship partner

dont drink the profits i have seen a lot of places where the falang is on the beer all day also not good for running a business when your pissed all day

its hard work and long days (12 hours plus) im in my early 40s so still working, i would think twice if your looking for a easy retirement

[jeanpierre]

Open a laundry instead

money laundry?

[meatballs]

The extra downside as a US citizen is the "Internal Revenue Service" our taxman. One of the great "priviledges" of being a US citizen is having to report any and all business activities around the globe and usually being liable to pay US taxes on money earned overseas. I have enough headaches now with US taxes just because I work in different US states. I am an engineer and I hate arbitrary inefficiency and stupid reporting. Thanks again all.

that's if you owe. haven't filed in years, buddy.

[brit1984]

Obviously it is possible to make a profit from running a pub but I don't think such an endeavour would allow for a peaceful retirement, especially not a girly bar in Pattaya... I recommend you open a little tea room in Padstow.

[gk10002000]

The extra downside as a US citizen is the "Internal Revenue Service" our taxman. One of the great "priviledges" of being a US citizen is having to report any and all business activities around the globe and usually being liable to pay US taxes on money earned overseas. I have enough headaches now with US taxes just because I work in different US states. I am an engineer and I hate arbitrary inefficiency and stupid reporting. Thanks again all.

that's if you owe. haven't filed in years, buddy.

Unless your Gross income is less than $10,000 you HAVE to file. You may owe nothing when the calculations are done, but if income anywhere is more than 10K you are required to file. Good luck to you if you are getting by with income below 10K.

[Asianrider]

Running a bar here is long hours. It is much more fun drinking at different bars too than being stuck at the same one all the time. If you don't have reliable thai partner, it is an uphill struggle to recruit "ladies".

[scorpio]

Running a bar here is long hours. It is much more fun drinking at different bars too than being stuck at the same one all the time. If you don't have reliable thai partner, it is an uphill struggle to recruit "ladies".

so the general feeling here is ( if you have a good thai wife who you can trust tio keep things in order ) i have and i wanted to open a bar a few years ago but 99% of tv members gave negitive replies.

[JanKlaasen]

Running a bar here is long hours. It is much more fun drinking at different bars too than being stuck at the same one all the time. If you don't have reliable thai partner, it is an uphill struggle to recruit "ladies".

so the general feeling here is ( if you have a good thai wife who you can trust tio keep things in order ) i have and i wanted to open a bar a few years ago but 99% of tv members gave negitive replies.

Maybe they read your previous threads