Farang Men Who Have Healthy Relationships With Thai Men

[boybrat]

now. i might not be caucasian. (though my father is caucasiod) however, i know that "farang" can also refer to foreigners. and i am not thai. so...

i had one thai boyfriend quite some time ago. cute as a button, great bod. around the same age as me. however, he has the mentality of a teenager. even though we are about the same age, (im only 3 months older), it seems that i had to play the "older guy" role in the relationship even though we were both in our early twenties back then.it was very weird.

granted he has his qualities but he seems to be content with his dead-end job earning pittance. he does not seem to have the motivation to do better. im a go-getter and such a mentality irks me cos i know he is capable of so much more.

moreover, he would rather spend his income on crap rather than saving them to finance his education. i do not mind paying for taxis, meals and such but its not like he does not earn anything. once, he blew his paycheck on a PHONE, leaving barely enough to pay his rent.

one of the reasons for our split was that even though both of us are asians , we were very different. we had absolutely nothing in common at all except for partying till the wee hours ( this was before the 2 am closing time rule) . we would go to private chillout parties afterwards, stumble home, barely coherent and sleep till 4 in the afternoon.

it was fun while it lasted but alas, he was no husband-material.

Edited January 25, 2006 by boybrat

[dukkha]

thanks boyrat, you really spelt it out without any greyness at all...always a comfort to read of other mens journeys along the path of life...different cultures but same human condition..ta muchly for contributing to what I hope is a worthwhile discussion for all of us;;

dukkha

[Buki]

I cannot relate to the topic at hand since I have no thai boyfriend or had any relations with one also. But I think its great to have a healthy relationship with anyone from different culture. Aside from being healthy for the heart. Its very educational too, you fully understand the cultures of people from different nations. And you become a worldly individual because of it.

I am happy with my relationship and with my partner. Going 7 strong years this 2006. And what makes me a happiers is that he will be flying here on the 6th of February, just to be with me and share my wonderful experience with Thailand and its beautiful people.

im sooo excited.

[sjaak327]

Hi People, I'm new on this forum, and this thread seems like a great way to post my first message.

I have been to thailand quite a few times, but never got into dating anybody in this country. I was more of a drinking and partying kind of tourist. Anyway about two years back I met a nice guy in a restaurant at Sukhumvit soi 22. (he was working there as a cook, but his shift was over and he joined us to drink some beers) After a hour chatting and joking he wanted to come with me, but since I was a bit shy and also because I had to get up early morning to go to chiang Mai I went home alone.

Funny thing was that I kept thinking of this guy for the rest of my holiday, after about 2,5 weeks I was back in Bangkok. The first night I went out in Nana Plaza, and afterwards in the angels disco in Nana Hotel, I was there barely 10 minutes when they closed the place. Now I knew some places to go for a drink after 2AM, one happened to be the restaurant at SUK 22 (they had a illegal drinking spot at the first floor). I went there and I saw this guy again. When the evening was over (5 AM) he went with me and we had great fun.

We did meet late at night (when his shift ended) for the next three days, after that he was able to take two days off, to see me the whole day. After that I had to go home.

Now, I thougth that would be the end of it, but I did leave my phone number, and I did have his as well. The funny thing was that I kind of missed him and he felt the same, so we kept in contact. And basically this 7 days of fun changed to a full blown relationship. Of course since then I returned to Bangkok three times, all these times he was there too, and we had a great time on all occasions.

Of course it's difficult to be in a Long distance relationship, but we call at least once a day, sometimes more. (nowadays the cost of calling to thailand are very low, like 2 euro cent a minute)..

The good thing is that the age difference is only 8 years, and he speaks quite good English.

I wasn't a person for relationships but somehow I made an exception for this guy, and up until now I have no regrets whatsoever.

[boybrat]

yup. my relationship with my thai ex was rather short-lived. though we made quite a cute couple! both of us were the same height and build. thus, we were able to wear each other's (skimpy) party clothes. as what i said, he was no husband-material, but honestly, he was good fun to be around with.

i must include one more perk he had that annoyed me. he was very possessive. and i mean VERY. im a friendly guy and i can start a conversation with anyone in the bar or club, nothing sexual of course. i even chat with guys i do not find attractive cos hey, being attitude-y is SO late 90s. he would then accuse me of being a "butterfly". he has some issues with his insecurity but he was an overall a pretty decent chap.

[dukkha]

great to read the diversity of posts especially age range..am far from being an expert on relationships as my track record speaks for itself, but one thing I have learnt is 'continue to be yourself' when you meet someone whose friendship may develop one way or another...although many of us are lacking in fluent thai language skills, our thai friends rely on our body language often, they can read our face and see our heart often..glad we had a newbie feel confident enough to make a post and add some thoughts...we learn from one another..

dukkha

[DUMPSTER]

Is a long distance relationship healthy? From my experience I think they are not.

I met my first Thai b/f in London while he was working. We had a 6 month long distance relationship before I moved to Thailand. I was actually moving to Thailand before I met him, so our meeting was coincidental to my move.

Those 6 months were very difficult for me. We met, maybe 3 times for a couple of days at a time, during that period and he also traveled to London for a week for our birthdays. All in all we were together for around 14 days in 6 months. In that time we emailed, text and called but it wasn’t enough for me. In those few months I didn’t have time to really get to know him. It was to prove costly.

When I moved we shared an apartment together and it was a disaster. We just couldn't get on so eventually I decided we should go our separate ways. We tried but I was exhausted and eventually, 1.5 years later, I realized it was never going to work.

As they say you never really know somebody until you live with them.

I also have a Thai friend in a LTR with an English guy. His b/f visits every few months. His latest trip is for 2 weeks. My Thai friend said he was not looking forward to it because it was so long this time! His trips are usually under a week and normally business related. I asked why he felt this way. He said, when he is not here I don’t have to worry about what I want to eat and what I want to do. When he is here I have to arrange everything for him and it becomes very exhausting. He said, I can live a very simple life but my b/f cannot.

I had to agree with my Thai friend. In general, I think foreigners a far more difficult to please than Thais. I know I am.

So beware long distant b/f’s. Coming here for a few weeks on vacation can be and probably will be completely different from living with your Thai b/f.

[PeaceBlondie]

Dumpster, that raises several good points. Especially in the long distance relationships, the Thai boyfriend has extra burdens: translator, tour guide, negotiator, problem solver, etc. The Western boyfriend may be so involved with jet lag or culture shock or language inability, that the Thai b/f is overwhelmed with responsibilities he feels are rightly his job.

We need to let our partner know that we appreciate his work, and be aware of his personal needs. Besides the obvious personal need.

[ChrisP]

MY LTR has developed over 2 years.. and we have spent more and more time "test-living" together in BKK... last year it was for 2 weeks.. then 4 weeks.. then 9 weeks.. It all seemed to work. This year it will for be 5 continuous months. I've also really made the effort to not behave like a tourist now.. to really behave like I live here. (It helped that I also had some work to do too...)

But you're right about what the Thai's do for us.. that we don't even think about. He said "I take care of you.." and (apart from making coffee for my breakfast every day!) I couldn't think what else..? but PB has the list down... and I'll certainly thank the bf for all the "extras" next time..

He DOES "take care" me... (like my previous bf).. in MANY small ways that all add up. That's one BIG plus with Thai guys.. they're indoctrinated to do that..!

ChrisP

[ProThaiExpat]

Money should be added to the list. A vacation spending style vs. a long stay spending level.

Many Thai b/fs get used to a high spending vacation lifestyle in a overseas b/f situation and then when the long stay in Thailand occurs, there is rarely as much money to spend as before and the falang is along to see how the money is spent. Sick buffalo stories are much harder to "sell" when the falang is here. Likewise, juggling many "overseas" b/fs is much harder to do when one is here full time.

Thus, I suspect the survival rate of "overseas" relationships is much lower, once the falang becomes long stay, than those that develope once the falang is here.

Cultural differences are much more difficult to ameliorate when the parties are living apart. When I was in the Navy, I knew many who were married for years, six months at home and six months overseas. Those relationships worked, even with kids, etc. but once the husband returned home for long stay, the problems began, as the six months husband was away, the wife ran the show and then when he returned with no prospect of leaving again in six months, the dynamic changed.

Optimistically, if both parties want the same thing and work hard toward that goal, most of these problems disapear in time. It is when the Thai has a "hollywood idealized version of falang relationships" learned from movies that the success rate is so low.

I credit the success of my relationship with "my Thai" to my willingness to change markedly to adjust to him and I am sure he would say the same. The old saying regarding 50-50 relationships is baloney, in my view, each person in a relationship must feel they are giving 90% for the relationship to last, this applies to Thailand as well as elsewhere. The willingness to change yourself and give to the partner, in my view, is the key. Treating him as a partner, not a houseboy or boytoy, is a given.

One of the cultural divides that is the most difficult to overcome, in my view, is the concept of sharing finances. Most Thais think money shared is "money given" and is theirs to do with as they like, as opposed to using it for the benefit of the relationship. I suspect the same is true in many relationshps in the west. Joint bank accounts are almost sure to ruin a relationship in Thailand, due to the cultural differences. Another topic entirely and one someone might want to begin.

[dukkha]

XP.."take care" is a welcome daily mantra always backed up each day with actions..I have been banned from the kitchen, not through any malice, other than Sam likes to prepare meals...after meeting in Bkk I invited him down to my place of a week end...no english but we can chatter away in thai..surface stuff initially, then we began to realise this was an important meeting for both of us..he at 27 was waiting to love and be loved, me at 59, in the same position, only this time I was relaxed and lacking in any insecurity. suspicion or jealousy...Sam would come down after a week in the sweat shop sewing relentlessly in hideous heat and what I imagine were not too decent working conditions...after two months of this I aksed if he would like to live here with me, understanding mostly what that entailed..we both did not know of the future but were willing to nurture this extraordinary meeting...from stints of me being in ICU situations, his grandmother who virtually brought him up dying and me flying back to australia...now it is almost 9 months on and it just grows and grows, sure we have day to day difficulties but all is overshadowed by this overwhelming compassion that is bestowed upon me daily..Not only has life been radically transformed for this young Isaan man but for me too, I am truly grateful..

dukkha

[Ijustwannateach]

Like everyone else who is a tourist before coming here, I had my flings with Thai guys I met on holiday in the suspect zones (like Silom). I'd already had my LDR experience in another country, though, so I'd learned my lesson about those risks, and everything that various posters above warn about them is true- it isn't likely you'd be meeting someone who's REALLY going to be faithful, and so forth, and chances are they are juggling several visitors and whatnot.

But I don't condemn them as "unhealthy" out of hand. I have one or two friends who are frequent, almost inevitable visitors, who are just as resolved that they will never actually live here. So even when they meet someone (usually on the scene) they really like, they know it will never work out in the traditional "boy-meets-boy and settles down" way. However, they do make long-term loving bonds with these guys- involving different levels of support- and don't put heavy pressure on them about fidelity. I've seen both the foreign and Thai guys looking pretty happy with these arrangements, and if it suits both of their needs (and we all have different kinds of needs) then I'd say these are healthy enough.

In fact, as long as both parties are happy, and getting whatever level of needs they have satisfied, I'd have to say the relationship is a pretty healthy one. We could go on and on about foreigners who date MBs and so forth, but some men need the power trip, and even if they have opportunities with non-MBs, those are not satisfying to them. I've seen different men with all kinds of different needs, and I'm not the one to say that a different guy's needs are "bad" or "unhealthy" [because I'd be judging by my own standards- which are based on a completely different kind of needs, possibly].

"Steven"

[dukkha]

The orange sun falls behind the hill,

my thai partner sits on a sunbed eating

steamed rice and salmon straight from

the rice cooker...he has returned after an

absence of 3 days...oh how nice to have

his presence once again...I feel healthy

and tomorrow is the 9th month together..

Happy Chinese New Year...

dukkha

[toptuan]

After first meeting my b/f and staying together only 6 days in Thailand, I flew back home, and a long-distance relationship ensued for a year.

The nice side about this experience for us, was that we both could express ourselves in written form. The emails flew, fast and furious. Pages, and pages, and gallons of cyber-ink later, we were getting intimately inside each other's heads and hearts. It was the 21st century version of grandma's love letters to her fiance, discovered in a dusty trunk. We explored hundreds of subjects and scenarios about our relationship and other things. We covered cultural differences, the age gap, finances, which end of the toothpaste tube should be squeezed, you name it.

The deep and long correspondance eventually led to a decision to move to Thailand. Our written communication had cleared out a host of land-mines before we made the step to live together. By the time we saw each other after a year or correspondance, we felt we really knew the other person at a soul-mate level. Three years later, that feeling is still confirmed.

Sure, there were still adjustments of day-to-day living together over long term that had to be worked out (we didn't cover ALL the toothpase tube scenarios), but really, the biggest issues had been settled, which produced a mutual commitment that has overcome smaller differences.

I guess we should feel lucky that we both had a comfortable medium, the written word, that we could both benefit from. Even better, we still have the "trunk"! Before I came to Thailand, I copied excerpts from our emails that were crucial in our developing relationship. I downloaded them to my little smartphone, and on long trips I'll pull up those comments, and we relive together our early days of bonding. Not only are they sweet memories, but going over those former thoughts and feelings continue to deepen the relationship.

Edited January 28, 2006 by toptuan

[Guest endure]

I've been doing the long distance dance with the bf since 1993 and we just get closer and closer.

[DUMPSTER]

I agree with PTE That, I too suspect the survival rate of "overseas" relationships is much lower, once the falang becomes long stay, than those that develope once the falang is here.

I have known Thais who have had more than one B/f at the same time and they have played them until they have to choose the best candidate. This is normally the one who can best take care of them, the richest in other words. I know there are exceptions and toptuan is proof of this. Again alot depends on the sort of Thai guy you enter a relationship with. If it is the bar boy type then you know what to expect.

As for Endures 12 or 13 year relationship, how often are you in Thailand?

[Guest endure]

As for Endures 12 or 13 year relationship, how often are you in Thailand?

May I ask the relevance of your question?

[DUMPSTER]

To have had a 12-13 year, long distance, relationship I think, is quite exceptional, and good on you for making it work. As a few of us have pointed out the success rate of this type of relationship, we believe, is low once the farang moves to Thailand. Many of these reasons have beem mentioned. I have also mentioned a Thai friend of mine in a LTR is very happy for his b/f to come and visit from time to time, but not for too long because he doesn't want him to interupt his life too much. Of course the Thai guy tells me he loves his b/f so much but when he isn't here he is off having fun with other guys.

As chrisp pointed out he has been increasing the length of time he stays and of course this has increased the trust between him and his b/f. So it appears the longer you are in Thailand the healthier your relationship will be. If on the other hand you come twice a year for a fortnight I cannot see how this can be, firstly a relationship, and secondly healthy.

That said, if it suits both parties, then that's all that matters at the end of the day. So what constitutes a relationship, i.e b/f's, partners or whatever you want to call it. Seeing them 14 or 28 days a year or?

I was just interested to know how you have made you LTR work for such a longtime. If you see no relevance then feel free to ignore

Edited January 30, 2006 by DUMPSTER

[jdinasia]

Dating ---

There are a million issues (ok a slight exagerration) that arise when one begins dating another person regardless of the genders involved.

I think there are 2 types of gay men (farang) that come to Thailand looking for relationships. The two types while having some small points where they are similar really are quite different.

Type 1 --- The farang looking for a wife.

People in this group tend to go for the "trophy" at least in their own minds. The income of the prospective spouse doesn't really matter. The social background of this person doesn't really matter. What does matter (in no particular order) age, appearance, good heart, friendliness, etc. This type of guy often has a close group of farang friends in the same types of relationships. (A very good thing .. gives social outlets that allow for communication etc. Also allows for their partners to associate freely so THEY have people to talk to as well.)

Type 2 --- The farang looking for a partner.

People in this group tend to look for other things first. Ability to communicate fully. Similar worldviews and social backgrounds. This type of guy is more difficult to find in Thailand but it IS doable.

I stand by my beliefs that to DATE someone here that you would not date back wherever home was is likely to be futile if you are in fact looking for something that really lasts. However I am learning more from my type1 friends that with the right group of like-minded friends that this approach can work. I am also learning that many of those friends are looking more for serial monogamy than anythin longterm and that is cool too!

[dukkha]

I certainly came here as an older gay man knowing there were not the same discriminatory set ups that existed in my own gay subculture back in Awstrayia...I was not rejected on the grounds of age or body type as many western gay man have encountered in coming to LOS...refreshing of course and then we start to question motives etc. when a thai man shows interest in us..after five years of exploring possibilities I found that it was a dead end and was resigned to being a single man in Thailand as I had been in Awstrayia for many decades...Surprise, it was not to be as I met Sam and the rest is his/her/story...in opening up my heart and 'going with the flow' I have found peace and joy...in opening this thread I only wanted to present a more balanced commentary of how we as western men are able to show love and be loved without it being totally bogged down in the current discourse of money and mistrust...hope springs eternal

Dukkha

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, I hope I'm as lucky someday, Dhukka... thanks for all the optimism, even if you had to go through the pessimism first.

"Steven"

[dukkha]

..IJWT...a long wait but, Oh My Buddha well worth the wait...am truly grateful that I will not die not knowing the joy of intimacy and trust...

[Guest endure]

To have had a 12-13 year, long distance, relationship I think, is quite exceptional, and good on you for making it work. As a few of us have pointed out the success rate of this type of relationship, we believe, is low once the farang moves to Thailand. Many of these reasons have beem mentioned. I have also mentioned a Thai friend of mine in a LTR is very happy for his b/f to come and visit from time to time, but not for too long because he doesn't want him to interupt his life too much. Of course the Thai guy tells me he loves his b/f so much but when he isn't here he is off having fun with other guys.

As chrisp pointed out he has been increasing the length of time he stays and of course this has increased the trust between him and his b/f. So it appears the longer you are in Thailand the healthier your relationship will be. If on the other hand you come twice a year for a fortnight I cannot see how this can be, firstly a relationship, and secondly healthy.

That said, if it suits both parties, then that's all that matters at the end of the day. So what constitutes a relationship, i.e b/f's, partners or whatever you want to call it. Seeing them 14 or 28 days a year or?

I was just interested to know how you have made you LTR work for such a longtime. If you see no relevance then feel free to ignore

Thanks for your reply.The reason I asked my question was to find out whether you were being judgmental. You were.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think anytime there is stability in a relationship- no matter what way it is set up- and something changes, it is going to cause stress. They say that moving house is one of the hardest things for a marriage to survive. I think it must be similarly stressful when something that used to be a long-distance relationship turns into a local relationship. There are obvious benefits, but there will be all kinds of new responsibilities and problems, too.

These days a lot of Japanese office-workers are having marriage crises when they retire. The wife isn't used to having them around the house so much, and they don't know what to do with their time there. I can see a move to join an LDR partner in Thailand as being similar in some ways- when Chris was here he made sure to keep very busy, and I think that's important not only for a good retirement, but also to keep a good relationship going- we have to have lives of our own to share with our partners.

"Steven"

[ChrisP]

I (personally) don't think Dumpster is being too judgemental...

That said, if it suits both parties, then that's all that matters at the end of the day

and he was interested in how different people made their own relationships work...

Like dukkha I'm attracted to LOS also by the fact that (some) Thais can see past the age issue... (I certainly don't FEEL my age.. !) California is - as you probably know - the toughest amd most judgemental state for being "young, gay and beautiful" in. I can't tell you how many personal ads say "No-one over 35 please..." - and that's from guys in their 30's....

ChrisP

[dukkha]

XP, so often we have heard thai men say.."I am not interested in your age or how you look,but I am interested in the kindness of your heart"...well cynics may also add that thai men are interested in the bulge in our wallet..I am over that now fortunately as it was always an obstacle to forming some kind of decent relationship...our economic situation, in most cases, is far more stable than many of the thai men we meet and I think we just have to accept that or let it be...I know I am senior in years to you XP, but that aint a significant issue..we all share the human condition and that commonality is of more importance to me..western gay body fascism is here to stay, one only needs flip through any gay publication, did you ever see a 60 year old gay man feature on a cover..needless to say wimmin cop it even worse in the media..dont you think that gay men who have made LOS their home need to do some serious reflection as to why they find establishing a healthy relationship with a thai man so difficult...our own backyards need tidying up before we deliver a litany of ' all that is wrong with thai men'...of course one can always return to the country of ones birth if life here seems to present so many difficulties day to day in finding a mate..no one forced us to come here and make this our new home, but I have no regrets that I did so...and I know others of you reside happily both within a relationship and outside of one..

Dukkha

[DUMPSTER]

Endure at times I really don't understand where you are coming from. You appear very reluctant to open up and express anything about yourself or your relationship and then label others who ask a simple question about it. This is not the first time you have said something about me, I think the first time was called a troll and now I’m being judgmental.

Maybe you are scared of being judged and have something you don’t want to discuss then it’s your prerogative to say nothing but as part of the topic I was just simply interested, as usual, to see what works for others so as to broaden my horizons and learn something. Often when we write on here we say things in general and there are always exceptions.

I was not judging you as I have no need to. I don’t even know you. Don’t be so sensitive.

Edited January 31, 2006 by DUMPSTER

[ProThaiExpat]

dukkha: While I agree with the majority of what is contained in your last post that starts out with "XP", which may direct the post to me, however, if so, I wonder upon what evidence you base your judgement that you are older than me?

[dukkha]

PTE, that was directed at ChrisP whom I

ProThai...understand your confusion with the two names...and certainly did not mean to evoke such a reaction regarding age...i happen to know for a fact that CrisP ( XP ) is younger than myself and it was to him that I was addressing the first sentence of the post...relax man...age is only a number heh eh eheheheh...sorry for the mix up

Dukkha

[Buki]

What could be in the minds of the Thai men?