Had An Accident

[kriswillems]

Today I had an accident.

I hit a motorcycle that passed the red light. I was driving a car. My speed was about 80kms per hour.

The guy on the motorcycle was seriously injured. He will most probably fully recover (I talked to the nurse that took care of him).

I guess it will take 1 month to recover, at home, outside the hospital, and medical expenses in a government hospital could go to about 40K.

I am not injured.

The brand-new motorcycle (red license) is totally destroyed (maybe 60K value).

My car has very serious damage (about 150K, total front and 1 complete side crashed, it is repairable, no structural damage).

I have first class insurance and phoh. roh. boh.

The motorcycle had phoh.roh.boh and probably also an insurance because it had a red license and was probably not fully paid (most motorcycle loans require insurance).

The police came to make a report which only says there was an accident at the red light and it needs further investigation. After that I could go home (and take the car with me). They gave all my documents back.

I live in Thailand on a non-immigrant-O visa.

There were no witnesses (that I know of or until now).

The guy is probably not rich (works as a guard).

My insurance made a report, but they say the guy has to agree that all damage comes from that accident (both front and side of the car), which is strange because I have first class insurance.

I am still in shaking, nervous, can't sleep. This is the first accident I had in 22 years driving.

I pulled him of the road so other cars couldn't hit him. Tomorrow I'll go to see the guy in the hospital (I guess that's OK,right?).

What can I expect (legally, financially)?

Somebody with a similar experience?

All information is welcome.

Edited August 29, 2012 by kriswillems

[richard_smith237]

You have full insurance, he (the motorcycle rider) went through a red light. You are legally and morally correct - The simple solution is to remain in the background and let your insurance deal with it, thats what they are there for.

There could be an issue if the motorcycle rider contests that he travelled through the red light, but thats simply your word against his - Nothing can be proved.

I know its difficult but I wouldn't worry too much. It's only a matter of time in Thailand before any of us hit a motorcycle rider or any other vehicle not stopping at a red light. You're lucky it wasn't a lorry.

[kriswillems]

It might seem strange, but I was very relieved he was not dead, because he was not wearing a helmet and I almost couldn't break before hitting him (so my speed was still around 80 kms/h).

I need to drive on the same road every day and on 1 year time I have seen several dead motorcycle riders (so many that I stopped counting). I am seriously thinking about moving my house closer to the school of my son. After the accident, and while the police was there at least 3 other motorcycles passed the red light (and the police was yelling at them and pointing to the bleeding guy on the road).

Thanks for the advice about staying in the background. I am still at bit struggling with this because this is not the way things are generally done in Thailand.

[Jitar]

Sorry you were involved in a serious accident. You are lucky the motor cycle rider was not killed and I can understand your relief. A friend was involved in a similar but fatal accident recently and it is a terrible situation for everyone involved.

The advise about keeping your distance is good and I hope your insurance company can resolve matters. After the insurance settlement there sometimes is a negotiation about compensation where the party with less wealth or more injuries will use a sympathy argument. I.E. a wealthy (or farang) car driver obeying the law should pay some compensation to a motorcyclist breaking the law because the motor cyclist is injured / the car driver can afford to. This negotiation is not easy and more so if you have built up a relationship with the injured person. The police go along with this and sometimes encourage it by being vague. I know a few people that have paid compensation like this, another form of making merit I guess. If you get to this situation you may need a trustworthy Thai friend with suitable experience to assist you.

Good luck with your situation, I hope you feel better about the accident soon.

[anon210]

It might seem strange, but I was very relieved he was not dead, because he was not wearing a helmet and I almost couldn't break before hitting him (so my speed was still around 80 kms/h).

I need to drive on the same road every day and on 1 year time I have seen several dead motorcycle riders (so many that I stopped counting). I am seriously thinking about moving my house closer to the school of my son. After the accident, and while the police was there at least 3 other motorcycles passed the red light (and the police was yelling at them and pointing to the bleeding guy on the road).

Thanks for the advice about staying in the background. I am still at bit struggling with this because this is not the way things are generally done in Thailand.

Sorry to hear of the unfortunate event.

Whereas you were strictly respecting the law (within the speed limit & passing at green light), my personal opinion is that in this crazy country, it is not sufficient to abide by the law. You should slow down at intersections, or any junction where another car or bike may join in.

Even though that may appear callous, keep well away from the guy at hospital. Any sign of caring would be interpreted as guilt and could lead you to being pressured for more money. It is best left to the insurance. And do not forget the advice often given to install a dash cam in your car... In such a case, it would be the "silver bullet".

[funcat]

I'm with Jitar on this...let your insurance handle this,showing to much compassion may turn against you...TIT...Good Luck!...and hope the other guy recovers soon...

[expat63]

I am sorry for you, but pasing a junction with traffic lights in 80kms per hour.... Maybe you should consider to drive little bit more carefully.

[TommoPhysicist]

I am sorry for you, but pasing a junction with traffic lights in 80kms per hour.... Maybe you should consider to drive little bit more carefully.

I agree, you shouldn't be going through lights at this speed.

Please slow down for traffic lights.

(Oh, and don't visit the guy)

[rics21]

I am sorry for you, but pasing a junction with traffic lights in 80kms per hour.... Maybe you should consider to drive little bit more carefully.

I agree, you shouldn't be going through lights at this speed.

Please slow down for traffic lights.

(Oh, and don't visit the guy)

I agree. Its common to slow down at the junctions. Although it's not your fault (legally), it's not advisable to visit the other guy, send gifts or whatsoever as it may occur more implications than you need.

You should keep a distance till the investigation is over, which may take a long time (weeks- months).

But I guess you should take note of his contact number, if possible; do something for the poor guy after the whole incident is over.

After all, its partially your fault.

Sent from my XT910 using Thaivisa Connect App

Edited August 30, 2012 by rics21

[transam]

I am sorry for you, but pasing a junction with traffic lights in 80kms per hour.... Maybe you should consider to drive little bit more carefully.

I agree, you shouldn't be going through lights at this speed.

Please slow down for traffic lights.

(Oh, and don't visit the guy)

I agree. Its common to slow down at the junctions. Although it's not your fault (legally), it's not advisable to visit the other guy, send gifts or whatsoever as it may occur more implications than you need.

You should keep a distance till the investigation is over, which may take a long time (weeks- months).

But I guess you should take note of his contact number, if possible; do something for the poor guy after the whole incident is over.

After all, its partially your fault.

Sent from my XT910 using Thaivisa Connect App

How was it partially his fault ?

[funcat]

I think it's always partly our fault ...by simply being here...if the OP hasn't been there,there would be no accident...TIT...BTW,you should know what I mean...

Edited August 30, 2012 by funcat

[jibberjabberjibberjabber]

Sorry to hear about the accident, must have really shaken you! I hope the motorcyclist is well on the road to recovery already.

This is a great reminder to get a dash cam installed, I haven't bothered yet but this post has served as a wake up call; I think I shall hot foot it to Panthip at lunch time.

It would be great if you could update the thread as and when developments happen so we can learn from your experience of dealing with insurance, compensation etc. I have to admit my instinct would be to visit the guy in hospital but it seems there is a lot of sound advice against that course of action so we've learnt something already.

[anon210]

Well, simple safe driving precaution: slow down at intersections and red lights, don't zoom through traffic without keeping your eyes wide open for crazy people.

[transam]

Well, simple safe driving precaution: slow down at intersections and red lights, don't zoom through traffic without keeping your eyes wide open for crazy people.

The OP could have been doing 30kph with the same result IF the timing is right. I have seen stuff happen where the bike rider was on the phone and could not operate both brakes, BANG.

The guy jumped a red, in any farang country he would be prosecuted, different here l know but we should not all have to bend over backwards for these tossers and take ''partial'' blame for their stupidity. .

[expat63]

Well, simple safe driving precaution: slow down at intersections and red lights, don't zoom through traffic without keeping your eyes wide open for crazy people.

The OP could have been doing 30kph with the same result IF the timing is right. I have seen stuff happen where the bike rider was on the phone and could not operate both brakes, BANG.

The guy jumped a red, in any farang country he would be prosecuted, different here l know but we should not all have to bend over backwards for these tossers and take ''partial'' blame for their stupidity. .

The same damage had probably not happend at 30kpm, but thats another story.

Driving in Thailand are and going to be dangerus. You can't be careful enought.

I don't say that if you are careful enough, accedents don't happend. They still do, but beeing passive and careful will help you to avoide the "big one"

And transam. We are not in farang country

Edited August 30, 2012 by expat63

[steveromagnino]

While on the face of it you did nothing wrong, certainly the way many motorcyclists ride means there is an accident waiting to happen.

You will be shaken up; and you may struggle to sleep; you should probably go and get yourself checked out by a doctor and if necessary pick up some medicine to help you sleep a bit.

Typically, it is VERY common in this case for the car to take some mercy on the motorcyclist even though you were not at fault. If his injuries are as serious as you state, then my advice is as others say, let insurance sort things out now, once all finalised and the police report is signed by both of you (you probably will need to sign something and you should NOT sign willy nilly, make sure it specifically states what happened because this is the document that can be used as the legal version of what happened afterwards should someone prompt the motorcyclist to ask you for further compensation - if necessary you should take a translator with you and ask to note further notes in the police daily report (I believe it will be in the buntuek brajum wun) so you remain completely in the clear legally. You NEED to speak to the police man nicely, and it may be added in the original report (if there is space) or you may need to add in additional notes that do not contradict the original report IF the police will allow.

If it is grey (i.e. a red light incident with no clear right and wrong person) then you may have issues later on. This is the first and most important thing to do now.

Morally, you have suffered not at all, the motorcyclist may have. Your insurance if it has what is called 'Chun 3' will take responsbility for his damages. AFTER it is resolved, it is not uncommon to offer some compensation or anonymous assistance for the medical bills or whatever...but AFTER there is a clear resolution of who is right who is wrong. This may also include the fact you moved him? (which could be claimed to be the reason why he is injured etc - lawyers can play it around a bit).

Irrespective of who is right who is wrong the damage is far beyond a bike totalled and a car scratched. If you can afford it, make it right with the guy after. Morally. This is fairly standard Thai practise for Thai and Thai accidents; the big car pays for the small car.

Ignore the more cynical TIT posters and focus on the major issues which is:

- be in the clear legally

- let insurance resolve for you

- assist if there is serious issues long term for the other guy for your own peace of mind

GOOD LUCK and if you really need help in talking to police etc you can PM me.

[siampreggers]

Simple. From now on every question and comment from the police and relatives gets the answer 'You have can contact my insurance rep at (telephone number).

Stay in the back ground and away from everything as much as you can. Do not deal with anyone expect for your insurance agent.

[mogandave]

One should always be cautious, but assuming you are at or under the limit, there is nothing wrong with going through an intersection (particularly one with a signal light) at speed. 80km/hr is not that fast (50mph) and the lights are timed such to allow stopping in plenty of time.

[transam]

Well, simple safe driving precaution: slow down at intersections and red lights, don't zoom through traffic without keeping your eyes wide open for crazy people.

The OP could have been doing 30kph with the same result IF the timing is right. I have seen stuff happen where the bike rider was on the phone and could not operate both brakes, BANG.

The guy jumped a red, in any farang country he would be prosecuted, different here l know but we should not all have to bend over backwards for these tossers and take ''partial'' blame for their stupidity. .

The same damage had probably not happend at 30kpm, but thats another story.

Driving in Thailand are and going to be dangerus. You can't be careful enought.

I don't say that if you are careful enough, accedents don't happend. They still do, but beeing passive and careful will help you to avoide the "big one"

For sure, in fact l slow for junctions, but the Thai guy behind me doesn't ever, they over take me causing perhaps a bigger problem. The damage thing doesn't come into the equation.

[siampreggers]

Morally, you have suffered not at all, the motorcyclist may have. Your insurance if it has what is called 'Chun 3' will take responsbility for his damages. AFTER it is resolved, it is not uncommon to offer some compensation or anonymous assistance for the medical bills or whatever..

Part of what is wrong in this country.

Let people learn their lesson.

Run through a redlight, cause an accident, expect people to say 'mai pen rai' and take pity on you so you don't have to take responsibility.

Nonsense I say. Let him and his family hurt so they learn not to run through redlights. Quite a simple lesson to them.

[richard_smith237]

I think it's always partly our fault ...by simply being here...if the OP hasn't been there,there would be no accident...TIT...BTW,you should know what I mean...

I understand the point you are trying to make but the logic you apply has a fundamental 'gone native' flaw to it.

If involved in an accident can I blame my parents? I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them !!...

The Op was within the Law, there is no legal or moral wrong doing.

Moving the injured party can potentially open a can of worms, but again this was perhaps the correct move where imminent danger preceded the risk of further injury through movement.

The 'compassion donation' is a nice touch - but IMO is often the source of much of the carelessness of bikes in the first place. They don't seem to care if they hit a car as the driver of a car always has money to pay them.

Slightly off topic: A number of years ago the Driver for my Wife's parents hit and killed a cyclist. The cyclist was a mentally disabled man who simply cycled across a 3 lane highway without looking. My Wife's parents paid B50,000 compensation to the family. I disagree with this outcome and suggest that the family of the victims are at fault. But, that's just the way things are done here - i.e. to make someone feel better now and forget about future consequences.

So Op: If after all legalities have been taken care of and you have been treated fairly - Feel free to donate a bit of cash as a form of compassion, but don't let yourself get bullied by either the Police or anyone else to hand over money. It is purely your choice and no one else's. You could even argue that the injured guy should pay you, after all the crash was his fault, you'll be without a car while its being fixed and your insurance premium might increase. This point is rarely if ever argued in Thailand though, but its there as backup if someone tries to turn the screws on you.

The advice is fairly universal: Sit back and let the insurance take care of it.

With regards to passing lights at 80 kmh. If we are to be honest, most of us follow the flow of traffic through an intersection (in many cases at 80 kmh).

[Wavefloater]

I agree with those who have said to keep away from the motorcycle rider and his family. Leave it completely up to the insurance company. If you go to the hospital, that action will be perceived as an admission of guilt, or at the very least, it will send a message to the family that you are a soft touch who can tapped for some (undeserved) compensation.

[rijb]

You might want to find a lawyer now, in case you need one in a hurry later. Best of luck.

Edited August 30, 2012 by rijb

[floridaguy]

I think it's always partly our fault ...by simply being here...if the OP hasn't been there,there would be no accident...TIT...BTW,you should know what I mean...

This is such a bad way of thinking. It is not your fault just for being a foreigner, and if you keep thinking that way, then you will always be taken advantage of, like so many TV'ers and other foreigners I meet here are.

To the OP, let the insurance company sort it out. Ask them to check for CCTV to prove you were in the right. If you have to, meaning if they try to blame partial fault to you, then ask them to go to the scene and find a witness. There are usually food/trinket vendors there every day and they may have witnessed yours. Stay away from the guy you hit. By visiting him you are admitting fault, not legally really, but it shows you are remorseful and you accept some blame.

[siampreggers]

To the OP, let the insurance company sort it out. Ask them to check for CCTV to prove you were in the right.

Yes, he's lucky that the guy that hit him is poor, and probably can't afford 10k to have the video tapes wiped.

[Phronesis]

Take you own photographs of the damage on your car (and, if possible the damage to the bike). In the absence of any witnesses (or CCTV footage) photos of the damage will be the most reliable evidence. Do not assume, or rely, on the police to retain any evidence (including photos) that support your story.

Did anyone take photos at the scene??

Edited August 30, 2012 by Phronesis

[funcat]

I think it's always partly our fault ...by simply being here...if the OP hasn't been there,there would be no accident...TIT...BTW,you should know what I mean...

This is such a bad way of thinking. It is not your fault just for being a foreigner, and if you keep thinking that way, then you will always be taken advantage of, like so many TV'ers and other foreigners I meet here are.

I guess I've phrased if wrong (English is my second language)...what I've meant is that,if there is farang around,he will be probably blamed for things gone wrong and tried to be taken advantage of...

My car got hit ones by drunken motorcyclists while PARKED!...when one of those guys finally crawled out of the ditch and the BIB asked him what happened,he said that the car hit them (!!)...even the BIB laughed...Next day,at the police station the father of the driver asked if we can help him because the bike is damaged and there is 5k bill for the hospital as well...hmmm

[rics21]

I am sorry for you, but pasing a junction with traffic lights in 80kms per hour.... Maybe you should consider to drive little bit more carefully.

I agree, you shouldn't be going through lights at this speed.

Please slow down for traffic lights.

(Oh, and don't visit the guy)

I agree. Its common to slow down at the junctions. Although it's not your fault (legally), it's not advisable to visit the other guy, send gifts or whatsoever as it may occur more implications than you need.

You should keep a distance till the investigation is over, which may take a long time (weeks- months).

But I guess you should take note of his contact number, if possible; do something for the poor guy after the whole incident is over.

After all, its partially your fault.

Sent from my XT910 using Thaivisa Connect App

How was it partially his fault ?

dam_n unlucky. He should had pray in the morning before he drive.

Sent from my XT910 using Thaivisa Connect App

[steveromagnino]

Morally, you have suffered not at all, the motorcyclist may have. Your insurance if it has what is called 'Chun 3' will take responsbility for his damages. AFTER it is resolved, it is not uncommon to offer some compensation or anonymous assistance for the medical bills or whatever..

Part of what is wrong in this country.

Let people learn their lesson.

Run through a redlight, cause an accident, expect people to say 'mai pen rai' and take pity on you so you don't have to take responsibility.

I am sure his destroyed motorcycle and physical pain and possibly permanent injuries are insufficient. You are right, maybe I should go kick the dude in the nuts as well and yell at him :_)

Uneducated folk, the type who end up on motorcycles sometimes, are often poorly educated, do stupid things and regret after. I think some compassion sometimes is not a bad way to be.

but I do agree with you to some extent; however as humans we sometimes need to forgive and assist others. Even though they are dips*(ts.

[transam]

Morally, you have suffered not at all, the motorcyclist may have. Your insurance if it has what is called 'Chun 3' will take responsbility for his damages. AFTER it is resolved, it is not uncommon to offer some compensation or anonymous assistance for the medical bills or whatever..

Part of what is wrong in this country.

Let people learn their lesson.

Run through a redlight, cause an accident, expect people to say 'mai pen rai' and take pity on you so you don't have to take responsibility.

I am sure his destroyed motorcycle and physical pain and possibly permanent injuries are insufficient. You are right, maybe I should go kick the dude in the nuts as well and yell at him :_)

Uneducated folk, the type who end up on motorcycles sometimes, are often poorly educated, do stupid things and regret after. I think some compassion sometimes is not a bad way to be.

but I do agree with you to some extent; however as humans we sometimes need to forgive and assist others. Even though they are dips*(ts.

Load of rubbish.

The laws are in place in LOS the same as any other country. If this numnut wants to flout them then it's his problem, NOT a guy that is abiding by those laws.

Are you saying the thick natives in farang land are different and will get away with stuff, or we ask at an accident that they caused, ''OH, are you thick, if you are then no problem''