Canadian Sisters Died In Thailand From Drinking Cocktail That Contained Insect Repellent

[deesquared]

I've seen people do some pretty strange things to get high, but drinking DEET was not one of them. That crap in banned in the US because it is so toxic. The girls probably never knew what they were drinking. So sad.

Actually, I don't believe it is banned in the states. I think it is legal to be used as long as it does not account for more than 30% of the product. I think it is still used in OFF as has been mentioned here.

[robertson468]

so I guess the tales that some posted on the other page about mozzie repellents being put into drinks weren't to far off then. The worldly and wise branded them as loonies running around in tin foil hats with conspiricy theories. I guess there is something to be learnt here, next time before some attack others with insults, stop for a moment and consider the possibility they may actually be more intelligent than yourselves and not escapees from the loony farm. I am refering to minority, those that think they have thier doctorates in everything known to mankind.

OK, but how much have they had to ingest for it to be lethal and the article talks about an overdose of DEET ?...surely that would be a very large amount

If you watch the video, you will see that under given circumstances it acts as a multiplier therefore does not need to be consumed in large amounts.

[MahaYellow]

I can't believe that they unknowingly drank the stuff.

[ozziebloke]

I've seen people do some pretty strange things to get high, but drinking DEET was not one of them. That crap in banned in the US because it is so toxic. The girls probably never knew what they were drinking. So sad.

Actually, I don't believe it is banned in the states. I think it is legal to be used as long as it does not account for more than 30% of the product. I think it is still used in OFF as has been mentioned here.

i am thinking he is confusing DDT with DEET

[bigbamboo]

I had no idea that any bar would make such a drink that could kill. There must be a way for the police to check which bars produce that

that kind of drink and shut them down. The resutls took a rather long time.

It is obvious that there must be 100s of bars that serve this concoction. I will stick with my favorite...gin n tonic (absolute of course)

with a lemon or lime twist.

Drink enough alcohol it will kill you and thats perfectly legal......................I thank the day I tried some and found all alcohol disgusting.

Practically anything in excess can kill you.

But I don't know quite what it is but there something about this whole case that just doesn't seem quite right.... either the investigation or the autopsy.

Edited September 1, 2012 by bigbamboo

[deesquared]

I am about the age of folks that do all the partying on Phi Phi. I go there once or twice a year but I go for the daytime outdoor activities. I've never been into the night scene. But as soon as we finish dinner when we are there we always see on our walk home the sidewalk vendors setting up shop. Typically it is just a table with buckets full of various concoctions. But they buckets always contain the unopened bottles of whatever the concoction will contain. So the partyer will buy the bucket and pour all of the contents on the individual bottles into the bucket and then share with friends via straws. This could be, for example, vodka, redbull, soda water and rum. Or something like that. But you can tell these vendors are trying to keep things at least close to legal. I've never noticed these guys selling anything shady, such as freakin DEET. I suspect to find that stuff you need to go to the back alleys. These girls may not have known specifically what it was but they probably knew it was not the usual. Someone probably said "you gotta try this '1-2-call'!" (as one person here said it was called.)

Thailand is not a dangerous place if you stay out of the bar/club and underworld scenes.

[dcsw53]

So othre people who were staying nearby also died under suspicious circumstances earlier in the year. No need to inspect the bars and clubs to see what they are putting in the drinks then.

Could someone explain how they "accidentally" drank it ?

[freedom4life]

I can't believe that they unknowingly drank the stuff.

Could be the possibility that someone spiked-it with the poison, when they weren't aware...who knows. The fact still remains that they were with such a crowd of fools to begin with, so there is bound to be some possible issues.

[bridge2bridge]

How can thet say DEET was ACCIDENTIALLY put in the drinks.

Sounds fishy to me.

But of coarse as usual in Thailand-- CASE CLOSED.

[bridge2bridge]

I'm not saying this is what happened. But teenagers and young adults experiment with drugs and alchohol all the time. Spiking their own drinks with ecstacy for example and it is known kids have died from this. Kids when they hear of some practices try and experiment. I remember kids sniffing glue/petrol, There are clear warnings but kids try because they will get high

Maybe i am od fashioned but what is the thing with getting HIGH.

Bloody Stupid.

NO Sympathy.

[Phronesis]

what puzzles me is why no-one helped them or why they didn't ask for help.....

They didn't stand out from the crowd.

Vomiting and disorientated girls are just a regular part of the scenery on Koh Phi Phi nowadays.

[TommyDee]

few points of interest..

the report comes in English to us

from a canadian newspaper that is normally in french

from reporters who will have, if they did, done their work in english

with a translation of a thai document

Now I am not saying that they 100% didnt drink deet, but the probability is that it was lost in translation. as the word "ingest" could equally apply, ( perhaps not correctly) to the absorbance of the compound thru their skin.

anyone old enough will remember their Grandad's telling them the story of the advancing troops getting 3 shillings and fourpence sent down the line..

http://www.pattaya103.com/canadian-sisters-autopsy-reports-still-speculation/

[F1fanatic]

Does Deet have pleasurable, drug-like qualities?

Is it cheaper than alcohol?

These are questions that need to be answered.

Edit - I assume the answer is yes to both questions, otherwise bars would not consider putting Deet in drinks.

Edited September 1, 2012 by F1fanatic

[Gulfsailor]

It is extremely unlikely they died from from using too much insect repellent (containing DEET). The stuff we used to get in the military was 40% DEET by volume. We used it ALL the time, as it was not only good for keeping the mosquitoes away, it was excellent for helping remove the thick, greasy camouflage paint we used back in those days (early 80's). I'm sure we would have had a number of deaths from DEET exposure if it was that deadly that slathering it on for a couple of days would be enough to kill you.

The use of Deet has been identified as having a very strong causal relation to veterans suffering from Gulf War Syndrome. So maybe that DEET you were splashing over yor face wasn't as harmless as you think...

[ManInSurat]

Does Deet have pleasurable, drug-like qualities?

Is it cheaper than alcohol?

These are questions that need to be answered.

Edit - I assume the answer is yes to both questions, otherwise bars would not consider putting Deet in drinks.

From what I read the "Coke Cough Syrup" "4x150" or whatever monicker the kids apply to it in your area is supposed to give a sensation of euphoria. So something akin to ecstacy.

I've never tried it and never will so I have no first hand experience.

If cough syrup is also being used then it's DXM which I have had too much of by accident and that's a dissasociative. Like ketamine.

Again, you'd have to ask a user to get a real account.

I'd imagine as you do that they use it as it's in mozzie coils and therefore cheap as the proverbial.

[Thai at Heart]

First off, I doubt any of us know what Deet tastes like.

Any kid from the '60s in the USA that has had OFF sprayed on by parents knows exactly what DEET tastes like. (Probably the 70's, 80's and 90's, but by then I was spraying on my own OFF without Mommy's bad aim) I've also tasted it hundreds of times when fishing and sweaty and it runs into the corners of my mouth.

I can't describe it, but it's pretty unmistakable and very bitter. You have no doubt that you've just tasted it.

Being as DDT is banned, and that would be a little hard to come by. Unless there were residues in the soil or food and they ate tons of soil or unwashed vegetables.

DDT is banned in the USA. It may be banned in other places, but it’s apparently widely used- because it works. In some situations, getting rid of insects right now is more important than the long term effects of DDT in the environment. If I were in the middle of a yellow fever epidemic, I wouldn't really care if the eagle eggs would be a little thin in 5 or 10 years.

Indeed it isn't banned everywhere but in the basis that for agricultural exports its limits are so tight it is definitely not freely available in Thailand.

[belg]

did anyone test, if some genius put DEET in the airco, supposedly to kill mozzies, if they can/will be inhaled and absorbed by the body ???

[Thai at Heart]

It is extremely unlikely they died from from using too much insect repellent (containing DEET). The stuff we used to get in the military was 40% DEET by volume. We used it ALL the time, as it was not only good for keeping the mosquitoes away, it was excellent for helping remove the thick, greasy camouflage paint we used back in those days (early 80's). I'm sure we would have had a number of deaths from DEET exposure if it was that deadly that slathering it on for a couple of days would be enough to kill you.

The use of Deet has been identified as having a very strong causal relation to veterans suffering from Gulf War Syndrome. So maybe that DEET you were splashing over yor face wasn't as harmless as you think...

Piffle. It's been around forever. I look forward to suing Johnson and Johnson for gazillion s

[F1fanatic]

Does Deet have pleasurable, drug-like qualities?

Is it cheaper than alcohol?

These are questions that need to be answered.

Edit - I assume the answer is yes to both questions, otherwise bars would not consider putting Deet in drinks.

From what I read the "Coke Cough Syrup" "4x150" or whatever monicker the kids apply to it in your area is supposed to give a sensation of euphoria. So something akin to ecstacy.

I've never tried it and never will so I have no first hand experience.

If cough syrup is also being used then it's DXM which I have had too much of by accident and that's a dissasociative. Like ketamine.

Again, you'd have to ask a user to get a real account.

I'd imagine as you do that they use it as it's in mozzie coils and therefore cheap as the proverbial.

Yes, but that's why my questions were specific to Deet.

We all know that cough syrup has drug-like qualities if taken in large enough doses, and presumably the other ingredients too.

But does Deet - and is it a cheap alternative to alcohol? How many mossie coils would it take to provide enough Deet to be toxic, without being obvious in the drink? Mossie coils are solid not liquid, making them (I would have thought) a little obvious in a drink.

Edited September 1, 2012 by F1fanatic

[friendphil]

When I first came to Thailand seven years ago, I had read that it was 'safe'-- probably in The Lonely Planet guide book to Thailand, perhaps also on the internet. After keeping somewhat abreast of the news here on this website, that would now seem to have been misinformation, or things seem to have changed.

I would hope that such guide books and other travel information sources include some warnings to tourists about some of the perils that exist here, so that when people land, they have their feet on the ground and have some idea that some cautions are indeed advisable. Of course that is true visiting anywhere, but people are not generally that experienced and knowledgeable about what to look out for when they are young and inexperienced, traveling for perhaps the first time.

Edited September 1, 2012 by friendphil

[farang000999]

Have they released any quantities at all? How do we know the just didn't get some in their blood from spraying it on their skin often? We have a lot of things in our body. It does not mean it is what kills us. How about some evidence?

[Rimmer]

Inflammatory posts and some quoted replies removed.

[SunsetT]

I've seen people do some pretty strange things to get high, but drinking DEET was not one of them. That crap in banned in the US because it is so toxic. The girls probably never knew what they were drinking. So sad.

I was just reading how it is one of the most widely approved insect repellent in the USA, and even for kids as small as 3months. It is decidedly untoxic if used properly

http://en.m.wikipedi.../DEET#section_1

There is an epa pdf file that classified it as slightly and no where can I do find a description of symptoms for ingestion. As far as I remember it has an unbelievably bitter taste.

I stand corrected... Although it was banned for use on children in the US in 1998.

Here is an article that described the side effect in laboratory experiments..

http://www.environme...g03hazards.html

The Medical Sciences Bulletin, published by Pharmaceutical Information Associates Ltd. reports, "Up to 56% of DEET applied topically penetrates intact human skin and 17% is absorbed into the bloodstream." Blood concentrations of about 3 mg per litre have been reported several hours after DEET repellent was applied to skin in theprescribed fashion. DEET is also absorbed by the gut.

Given the statement above, the girls could have just as easily applied insect repellent containing DEET before going out for the evening given the high absorption rate.

...Dont know why the repellent they sell in the UK contains 20 to 30% Deet when those for sale in Thailand work just as well with only 12-13%. Soffell is my favoured brand.....smells nice too.

[Dukeleto]

My apologies if I have missed any important updates, but where are the two Brazilian guys and has anybody attempted to question them on the matter. They are key witnesses to the events prior to the girls tragic deaths. Surely if the girls ingested toxic cocktails they were witness to this or may indeed have been complicit. I fail to understand how this could be accidental unless it is proven the girls tainted the cocktails themselves. Any other sceanario short of this is certainly not accidental. Why have these lads not come forward to assist in this mystery. Surely if they were friends and just had an innocent time out on the town they would have offered up information. It is unlikely they are unaware of the deaths.

[theslime]

so I guess the tales that some posted on the other page about mozzie repellents being put into drinks weren't to far off then. The worldly and wise branded them as loonies running around in tin foil hats with conspiricy theories. I guess there is something to be learnt here, next time before some attack others with insults, stop for a moment and consider the possibility they may actually be more intelligent than yourselves and not escapees from the loony farm. I am refering to minority, those that think they have thier doctorates in everything known to mankind.

In Bali some of the inmates drank it with coffee,regularly. Quite ingeneous how they boiled water in a plastic bottle till it was bubbling .Didnt notice too much from their behaviour later and have seen a lot worse reaction from Boozing. This was the whole bottle in one Coffee size mug between only a few.Jing Jing.

[Pesche]

Thinking about if this would happen to my daughters, I would blow all fuses!

In my humble opinion I find it ABSOLUTELY unacceptable that it took F***** 2 1/2 months to "diagnose" an accidentally mixed DEET Cocktail!

Now what?! Is there a crackdown on Bars/Restaurants to investigate and find the source/culprits?

I feel so depressed considering the unspeakable suffering of the parents!!!

And I feel even more depressed at the lack of action from the authorities!

Forbitting alcohol sales during elections BUT alowing - not controlling - Food & Beverage sellers on hygiene and stock in Tourist locations!!.

I opened the first Thai restaurant in Switzerland long ago and the "Lebensmittelinpektor" FDA-inspector ordered me to stop IMMEDIATELY sale of Maekong as it contains Dyoxine!

I was speachless so I made it analyze and indeed it had 0.0000007 mg. of Dioxine!

Frankly: where are we going..?

"If the median lethal dose in rats (2 g/kg) is applicable to humans, 50 ml of 100% DEET may is potentially lethal for an 8-year-old child (Tenenbein, 1987)."

[TommyDee]

from the good ol US, NPIC...

What happens to DEET when it enters the body

When DEET was applied to the skin of volunteers by researchers, they found that a small amount of the DEET was

taken into the body through the skin. When DEET and alcohol are applied to the skin, more DEET is taken into the skin

compared with DEET alone. Drinking alcohol may also cause more DEET to be absorbed through the skin. Sunscreen

products that contain DEET may cause more DEET to be taken into the body through the skin.

The DEET that is taken in to the body can be found in the blood up to 12 hours after it is applied to the skin. Once in

the body, DEET is broken down by the liver and eliminated from the body mainly through the urine. All of the DEET

that is taken in by the body is broken down into smaller chemicals before it is eliminated. Nearly all of the DEET that

is taken in through the skin is eliminated by the body within 24 hours of applying it.

[gaucho]

mate portuguese is the language of brazil that is why there could have been confusion about nationality ... if these two played a part in the deaths i hope they r made to pay but prob long gone by now drugging for sex is VERY wide spread

[ozziebloke]

I'm not saying this is what happened. But teenagers and young adults experiment with drugs and alchohol all the time. Spiking their own drinks with ecstacy for example and it is known kids have died from this. Kids when they hear of some practices try and experiment. I remember kids sniffing glue/petrol, There are clear warnings but kids try because they will get high

Maybe i am od fashioned but what is the thing with getting HIGH.

Bloody Stupid.

NO Sympathy.

Teenagers and young adults experiment with drugs they do not have the experiance we have

[webfact]

Canadian Sisters Autopsy reports still speculation

By Staff Reporter

The autopsy has been concluded on the two Canadian sisters who died together and alone in their Hotel room on Thailand’s Phi Phi island , earlier this summer, making senstational headlines in Canada and around the world.

The Bangkok Autopsy centre has yet to release the contents of the report to the public, however Canadian reporters claim to have had early access to them.

The question has to be, how would they have done this, and how much of the content, if they really did get it, is lost in translation, first from Thai to French, and then from French to English.

In a Canadian newspaper, claims that they drank a lethal cocktail may well be either founded or unfounded, yet are drawing a huge internet audience. In the news article they state that the girls drank a cocktail containing cough syrup, Coke,, Kratom leaves ( a local herbal drug) and DEET, the neurotoxic formula used in mosquito repellent..

Full story: http://www.pattaya10...ll-speculation/

-- pattaya103.com 2012-09-01