Duel Nationality

[Savage]

Hello,

I have a 1 month old baby girl. I am about to get her first British passport before getting her a Thai passport. My question is simply, will this state of affairs be offered to her throughout her life or will she have to choose one or the other at the age of 18?

Also, once I have her two passports can I confirm that the way for her to travel is by leaving Thailand on her Thai passport, entering/leaving UK on her British passport and then re-entering Thailand on her Thai passport. This seems the common sense approach but is it allowed?

One last thing. When applying for my daughters nationality (UK) I have to get a counter signiture on my daughters photo by a proffesional who has known me for 2 years or more. I am sending a photo back to the UK for my family friend (A doctor) to sign along with the application form. The friend has not actually met my daughter as yet, does this matter if I don't mention it?

Your assistance in these matters is most appreciated.

Savage

[lopburi3]

Will let a Brit answer the photo signing as don't have any idea.

You understanding of passport use is correct and it is allowed. Passport of the country always used for the country. You may show other passport to airline to establish no visa needed.

There is no magic change at 18 years old. For males there is a requirement for military service (if they call you) but even that is not usually a problem.

[Backpack_thailand]

Congrats on the new baby, it will change your life!

lop3 is spot on. I have a 2 year old boy and he has both a Thai and UK passport. Although we haven't been to UK yet, the always super helpful (!!) staff at the Brit Embassy assure me that entering UK on his British pasport is no problem as long as both are presented wherever you travel to as stamps will overlap.

For someone to sign a photo for your daughter though, I would suggest a Thai professional would be better. I used my local doctor who also wrote a covering letter outlining that he is indeed my son's GP and the Embassy were fine with this. In Thai language is OK.

The question of having to make a 'decision' at 18 is unclear however. I have had conflicting reports in this one from various people. I think it depends on how much time you spend in each country....

[samran]

My mother in in here 60's and has Thai/Aust dual nationailty. I am waaaay past 18 and still have it. They way you mentioned about using the PP's is the way to go. Always use the Thai PP to enter and leave Thailand to save any confusion later. Always show the airline both passports to confirm the ability to travel back to Europe visa free.

[Backpack_thailand]

Things would be so much easier if kids could still be included on the parents passport...!!!

[visarunner]

My kids have dual citicienship as well , no problem in using thepassports for the various In & Out's .

Airport check-in staff just have to make sure that at the destination the person has no problem.

As far as I know the 18 year rule applies to some EU Countries , but how they want to controll it still eludes me , proberly a tool for the drawing to the military , which becomes less n less important , at least for Europe.

Edited January 26, 2006 by dr_Pat_Pong

[tom yum goong]

I have 2 passports, Thai and British.

I use my Thai to enter and leave Thailand, and my British to enter/leave the UK or just about anywhere else.

Airline check-in staff always ask to see my British when i am leaving Thailand just to check i can legally enter the country. I have on the odd occasion been asked by Thai immigration whether i have another passport on entering Thailand as they can't find a visa or stamp in my passport indicating where i've been. They never seem bothered when i tell them i also have a British passport and just let me through.

The thing about having to choose when you are 18 is because as far as i am aware, Thailand does not recognise dual nationality. Therefore you are "supposed" to decide which nationality you will keep when u turn 18.

However, for anyone with British nationality this is impossible because u cannot renounce your British citizenship. I could stand in front of the British embassy in Bangkok and burn my passport whilst verbally abusing the Queen, but if i applied for a new one they would still give me one.

So i wouldn't worry too much. As long as you don't advertise the fact that you have two passports (maybe i should take my own advice ), no one is going to give u any hassle.

[british8230]

Hi,

I've just been through all this at xmas with my 14mth old son, its very straight forward you leave Thailand on Thai passport but make sure you take both Thai/British birth certificate as in my case Thai immigration wanted to see them in order to verfiy nationilty.

Entering the UK was so simply just gave passport had questions about my wife's length of stay then through without a problem.

The British embassy mentions that it a good idea to get a right of abode stamp as a remark in both passports but after checking into this its not a legal requirement and in my case it didn't cause any problems.

In relation to 18yrs as far as I know they can keep both passports without a problem however I will invest in the right of abode then.

In relation to counter signing the pics of you daughter just get the babys doctor here in Thailand to sign them to confirm identity.

Good Luck

[moonoi]

I have 2 passports, Thai and British.

I use my Thai to enter and leave Thailand, and my British to enter/leave the UK or just about anywhere else.

Airline check-in staff always ask to see my British when i am leaving Thailand just to check i can legally enter the country. I have on the odd occasion been asked by Thai immigration whether i have another passport on entering Thailand as they can't find a visa or stamp in my passport indicating where i've been. They never seem bothered when i tell them i also have a British passport and just let me through.

The thing about having to choose when you are 18 is because as far as i am aware, Thailand does not recognise dual nationality. Therefore you are "supposed" to decide which nationality you will keep when u turn 18.

However, for anyone with British nationality this is impossible because u cannot renounce your British citizenship. I could stand in front of the British embassy in Bangkok and burn my passport whilst verbally abusing the Queen, but if i applied for a new one they would still give me one.

So i wouldn't worry too much. As long as you don't advertise the fact that you have two passports (maybe i should take my own advice ), no one is going to give u any hassle.

Actually your not correct there. You can renounce British citizenship (its something I've investigated as its something I was thinking about doing......I have Dual Nationality but with another EU nation) You can read about it here Renouncing British Nationality

As for Thailand I've read elsewhere on this forum that they do now recognise Dual Nationality for Thai citizens (I seem to remember it was 3 or 4 years ago)......of course that doesn't mean that everyone at immigration and other government department know that

Slightly off topic I know, but I think its best to keep information as accurate as possible

[GU22]

The thing about having to choose when you are 18 is because as far as i am aware, Thailand does not recognise dual nationality. Therefore you are "supposed" to decide which nationality you will keep when u turn 18.

Sorry, but Thailand [/b]does allow dual nationality, and has done so for some time.

My wife and daughter both have dual Thai and British nationality, and show their Thai passports for entering and leaving Thailand and any other ASEAN countries where Thais don't need a visa but Brits do; and their British passports for everywhere else. When checking in the airline will want to see both passports to ensure you have the necessary ability to enter at the other end. This is because the airline would have to pay a heavy fine if they carried you and you were then refused entry.

[tom yum goong]

Apologies for getting it wrong about renouncing British nationality, i was told this some time ago. It was something to do with Napoleon actually being a British subject by way of his mother (can't remember the details). Between Napoleon's time and now obviously the laws have changed

However, I'm pretty sure you can not have dual nationality as a Thai. You have to choose your nationality at 18. If this has changed i have definitely not heard of it. Do u have a link to any info?

[singa-traz]

Apologies for getting it wrong about renouncing British nationality, i was told this some time ago. It was something to do with Napoleon actually being a British subject by way of his mother (can't remember the details). Between Napoleon's time and now obviously the laws have changed

However, I'm pretty sure you can not have dual nationality as a Thai. You have to choose your nationality at 18. If this has changed i have definitely not heard of it. Do u have a link to any info?

Unlike some other countries, example Singapore, Thailand DO NOT require his citizen to revoke their Thai citizenship, if they get another nationality (for example based on marriage).

[Savage]

Thankyou very much for your kind and prompt answers, I feel more confident about what I need to do now. The duel nationality thing seems a little hazy later on but I guess the best thing to do is keep quiet as many people seem to hold duel nationality without problem (illegal or not).

Incidently if I wish for a second copy of my daughters birth certificate when registering her birth then I have to pay over 3000 bhat per extra copy. My mum just picked up me a copy of my birth certificate in the UK for 7 pounds!!! Slight fluctuation in price!

[GU22]

However, I'm pretty sure you can not have dual nationality as a Thai. You have to choose your nationality at 18. If this has changed i have definitely not heard of it. Do u have a link to any info?

No direct link, but the following was posted on Thailand-UK last August. I've seen it quoted on other boards as well.

“Section 13 of the Citizenship Act 1965 stipulates that a female Thai national who marries a foreigner and is later granted citizenship by her foreign husband’s home country shall maintain her Thai nationality.

There is no Thai law that stipulates that she must lose her Thai citizenship. However, she may choose to revoke her Thai citizenship, a decision the Thai government will announce the Government Gazette.

For Thai children with dual nationality, the Citizenship Act (3rd issue) 1992 states that a Thai national with a foreign father may declare his or her intention to revoke Thai nationality within the year following the child’s 20th birthday.

The law does not mention that the child will automatically have his or her Thai citizenship revoked. If the child does not declare his or her intention to revoke Thai citizenship, that child will still hold Thai nationality.”

Monday, April 12, 2004 Satchaphand Atthakor, Deputy Director-General, Consular Affairs Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

(My emphasis)

I also queried this point with the RTE in London when my wife and step-daughter qualified for British citizenship, and was assured by them that they could become British and still retain their Thai nationality as well.

[Jamnjam]

However, I'm pretty sure you can not have dual nationality as a Thai. You have to choose your nationality at 18. If this has changed i have definitely not heard of it. Do u have a link to any info?

No direct link, but the following was posted on Thailand-UK last August. I've seen it quoted on other boards as well.

“Section 13 of the Citizenship Act 1965 stipulates that a female Thai national who marries a foreigner and is later granted citizenship by her foreign husband’s home country shall maintain her Thai nationality.

There is no Thai law that stipulates that she must lose her Thai citizenship. However, she may choose to revoke her Thai citizenship, a decision the Thai government will announce the Government Gazette.

For Thai children with dual nationality, the Citizenship Act (3rd issue) 1992 states that a Thai national with a foreign father may declare his or her intention to revoke Thai nationality within the year following the child’s 20th birthday.

The law does not mention that the child will automatically have his or her Thai citizenship revoked. If the child does not declare his or her intention to revoke Thai citizenship, that child will still hold Thai nationality.”

Monday, April 12, 2004 Satchaphand Atthakor, Deputy Director-General, Consular Affairs Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

(My emphasis)

I also queried this point with the RTE in London when my wife and step-daughter qualified for British citizenship, and was assured by them that they could become British and still retain their Thai nationality as well.

And in chapter 2, section 22 of that same act as quoted above, it states:

A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalised as an alien, or has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

And this small statement has been enough for Thai authorities to seize land that was bought by a Thai national who had been naturalised as an alien.

This was part of the amendments made in 2535 (14 years ago) and this same act has been amended again on 21st July 2538 (11 years ago).

This act doesn't stop Thai nationals from becoming naturalised as an alien, as section 13 says, but it does say that a Thai national who is naturalised as an alien shall lose Thai nationality.

The Thai government will not chase you down and tell you. A Thai citizen can happily use their dual passports and keep updating their Thai ID card but in law they are no longer seen as Thai citizens.

So before buying some Thai land as a dual passport holder then consider the huge risk involved - go see a Thai lawyer. They'll probably tell you to renounce your alien citizenship.

There are probably no risks travelling to and from Thailand with dual passports. There are no fines that I know of. So if this is all you are worried about then there is nothing really to worry about.

Please, if you are trying DIY law work, either read each act very, very carefully or I'd suggest getting professional help.

[the scouser]

You made your point in the other ongoing thread. There's nothing to be gained by dredging up old threads just to reiterate what you've already written.

Scouse.