Thailand Grapples With Killer Student Gangs

[webfact]

Thailand grapples with killer student gangs

by Aidan Jones

Lopburi, Thailand, Sept 4, 2012 (AFP) - Sweat dripping from their foreheads as they complete a set of press-ups, students at a Thai army boot camp are momentary allies, but a spate of gang shootings suggests it is an uneasy peace.

Deadly rivalries between student gangs have seen several teenagers gunned down in Bangkok since the start of the school year in May, leaving the kingdom's authorities scrambling for answers to a decades-old violent tradition.

The 150 students doing fitness drills at the army camp north of the capital come from vocational colleges -- schools notorious for incubating ruthless gangs who fight for the perceived pride of their institution.

"I stabbed a student in the head," says Pond, a pimply 18-year-old who escaped prosecution for the assault but was fined a few dollars for carrying a knife.

"Sometimes I feel bad about it, but it's what happens. We do it because it's a legend, passed down from the seniors in our school. We do it for pride."

The colleges prepare teenagers for a life of manual work, rather than going on to university, and the students are often viewed as low status by a society with a keen sense of hierarchy.

An epidemic of violence strikes at the start of every new school year, leaving ordinary Thais on guard for the appearance of students in public spaces, where disputes can lead to tragedy.

A bystander died after she was hit by a stray bullet in June as a group of students opened fire on a Bangkok bus in an attack that killed a rival gang member.

Guns, machetes and even improvised grenades were among an arsenal seized in a subsequent police crackdown, but the death toll has risen unabated with at least three more students killed and several others wounded since.

Bangkok police recorded more than 1,000 cases of students fighting between January and July this year, and the nationwide tally is likely to be much higher.

Desperate for a solution, Thai authorities established the boot camp, where the worst offenders are sent after consultation between their colleges and their parents.

Once there, they are forced to follow orders from no-nonsense army trainers and must live cheek-by-jowl with their sworn enemies.

Dressed in a blue jumpsuit and plimsolls, his hair cropped close like his peers, Pond -- a nickname -- explains that he was blacklisted by his school for persistent fighting and sent to the camp to reform.

He says the 5:00 am wake-up calls, regular meal times and fitness drills have brought some discipline to his chaotic life, but is frank about his prospects of following a new path.

"At the moment I don't want to fight anymore... but when I am back out there I will protect myself," he says, fidgeting with the catch on his army-issue baseball cap.

For Zoom, a scrawny, jittery 18-year-old, fighting for school pride delivers a sense of power, belonging and respect from younger pupils.

He says trivial insults about each other's school are enough to spark confrontation and chillingly recalls a fight last year which started after rivals swore at him from a motorcycle.

As the students passed by he reached for his knife "and slashed one of them across the head", he says, in a description betraying no hint of remorse.

The camp interns, several marked with gruesome scars from similar knife slashings, miss cigarettes, junk food and other home comforts, but generally appear engaged and willing to team up with erstwhile rivals in tasks such as abseiling or cooking.

Their instructors have 10 weeks to break down resentment between them and hope team-building exercises and group discussions will foster friendships that last once the camp ends in September.

But after decades of brawling between the colleges, the instructors are realistic.

"Ten percent of the students are not good when they come to the camp," explains Lieutenant Colonel Wanchana Sawasdeem, an army spokesman.

"When they leave they still won't be good -- they don't accept the system at all. But for 90 percent it will work, even if it just means they hesitate before fighting... at least the camp will have made them think."

While the vocational colleges churn out many success stories, a hardcore among each year gravitates towards the hyper-violence of the gangs, impressed by the tales of older pupils and even former students whose influence lingers.

"Winning fights is their way of life," says Montree Sintawichai, a former senator and now an expert on young people's issues who works for a charity called the Child Protection Foundation.

"The students think their victims are weak... they have little respect and little forgiveness," Montree says.

Boot camp instructor Colonel Wijak Kesuda is happy with the bond established between the pupils and the army trainers and says that, after initial resistance, instilling a sense of discipline was a relatively easy task.

"The hard part is making them respect themselves, other people and society," he says.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2012-09-04

[FarangTalk]

Those 'students' are scared little cowards.

Prison time rather than boot camps would be the best and most effective way to deal with them.

[aaacorp]

lock them up...Use the same uniforms for all schools

[Pseudolus]

"Deadly rivalries between student gangs have seen several teenagers gunned down in Bangkok since the start of the school year in May, leaving the kingdom's authorities scrambling for answers to a decades-old violent tradition"

They know the answer. We all know the answer. Stop allowing people to escape justice through paying bribes. Simple. Might take a year or two, but getting a 200 baht fine for stabbing someone in the head is just encouraging them to continue. Secondly, for juveniles, start harrassing the parents; fine them, have a judge order them to sort their kids out and failure to do so is contempt of court. Loads they could do but it would require an un corrupt judiciary and police, and a police that police.

[khaowong1]

Farang Talk, I don't think prison is the answer. I remember back about 30 - 40 years ago in the US, a lot of these problems were solved by sending a bunch of these same kind of young kids into the military. It gave them discipline and even taught them a trade. I think it would be worth the effort to look at that for these so called gangs. just saying..

Edited September 4, 2012 by metisdead
: Bold font removed, please don't post in bold font.

[drdoom6996]

Are they talking about Politicians, Police or kids as the gangs that need the remedial most help???????????????????.

[cowslip]

THe usual clap-trap from the "hang-em-high" brigade I see.

wouldn't life be lovely if all problems were simply a case of black and white?

Firstly it might be a good to bear in mind that the streets of Thailand are NOT crawling with "killer student gangs".

However in a country where MPs take automatic weapons into restaurants and shoot people with apparent impunity, what can you expect of their spawn?

Edited September 4, 2012 by cowslip

[siampreggers]

Close all the vocational colleges and put the students where they belong - in rice paddies for 15 hours a day.

They'll never amount to anything anyway.

[ableguy]

My answer would be put them in the army down South for two years show them what real fighting is about, there would be no strutting around acting hard when any minute you can be blown away.

[ableguy]

THe usual clap-trap from the "hang-em-high" brigade I see.

wouldn't life be lovely if all problems were simply a case of black and white?

Firstly it might be a good to bear in mind that the streets of Thailand are NOT crawling with "killer student gangs".

However in a country where MPs take automatic weapons into restaurants and shoot people with apparent impunity, what can you expect of their spawn?

I could view this post as the usual clap trap ?

[BookMan]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

It happens the world over TB67. Nothing new in it. You can say this about youth gangs in any country in the world. I would say myself they are less of a problem in Thailand than many other areas of the world.

[wlcart]

I've said it for a long time I don't think right now Thai society is well equipped to handle youth gangs.

Although I believe Thai's are very family oriented people and surely love their kids, I have not seen the strong parenting skills required to handle this issue.

[ThomasBird67]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

It happens the world over TB67. Nothing new in it. You can say this about youth gangs in any country in the world. I would say myself they are less of a problem in Thailand than many other areas of the world.

If the "rest of the world" you are referring to is third world despotic hellholes than I would agree.

[Katipo]

"Deadly rivalries between student gangs have seen several teenagers gunned down in Bangkok since the start of the school year in May, leaving the kingdom's authorities scrambling for answers to a decades-old violent tradition"

They know the answer. We all know the answer. Stop allowing people to escape justice through paying bribes. Simple. Might take a year or two, but getting a 200 baht fine for stabbing someone in the head is just encouraging them to continue. Secondly, for juveniles, start harrassing the parents; fine them, have a judge order them to sort their kids out and failure to do so is contempt of court. Loads they could do but it would require an un corrupt judiciary and police, and a police that police.

I doubt these guys can really afford bribes, and the prison system is already filled with those who similarly could not. It is the rich and wealthy who are the real cowards, hiding behind walls of wealth and connection.

The key word above, the word that is really at the heart of the problem, is “hierarchy”. These children see no future; they are at the bottom of the pile. Left to rot their by a corrupt system whose only use for them is to work as labourers in factories making their fat rich bosses even fatter and richer.

While one should never excuse the despicable acts of an individual, we certainly need to look at the system that is guilty of creating them.

[GeorgeO]

Although the lack of accountability is obvious (given that one student is able to admit that he stabbed someone in the head but avoided prosecution), the truth is, it's the perception of the "killing tradition" that needs changing.

Even if these kids go back to their schools after boot camp and start trying to behave themselves, they're going to get a lot of stick from their peers for "turning against" their own gang. So they will just fall back into their previous behaviour patterns.

It has to start with the identification of the ring leaders, whose parents must be informed that they are also required to take responsibility for the actions of their offspring. If necessary, lock up the ringleaders, and their parents, and send out a clear message to everyone that the kid gloves are off.

Those that subsequently take on the mantle of the new ringleader are then given the same treatment until everyone realises that they're actually chasing a lost tradition. Maybe then the remainder will start to move away from this craziness and some common sense will prevail.

[ThomasBird67]

"Deadly rivalries between student gangs have seen several teenagers gunned down in Bangkok since the start of the school year in May, leaving the kingdom's authorities scrambling for answers to a decades-old violent tradition"

They know the answer. We all know the answer. Stop allowing people to escape justice through paying bribes. Simple. Might take a year or two, but getting a 200 baht fine for stabbing someone in the head is just encouraging them to continue. Secondly, for juveniles, start harrassing the parents; fine them, have a judge order them to sort their kids out and failure to do so is contempt of court. Loads they could do but it would require an un corrupt judiciary and police, and a police that police.

I doubt these guys can really afford bribes, and the prison system is already filled with those who similarly could not. It is the rich and wealthy who are the real cowards, hiding behind walls of wealth and connection.

The key word above, the word that is really at the heart of the problem, is “hierarchy”. These children see no future; they are at the bottom of the pile. Left to rot their by a corrupt system whose only use for them is to work as labourers in factories making their fat rich bosses even fatter and richer.

While one should never excuse the despicable acts of an individual, we certainly need to look at the system that is guilty of creating them.

Oh pleez. More bleeding heart feel good lefty crap. You being born into a family without money does not give you a license to go be a menace to society and then blame the system. Whats your suggestion anyway? Reverting to communism? With your obvious hatred of anyone who has money sounds like you think thats a fine idea. People need to take responsibility for thier own actions. Blaming society will do nothing but create a soceity of entititlement and victimhood.

[Pseudolus]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

It happens the world over TB67. Nothing new in it. You can say this about youth gangs in any country in the world. I would say myself they are less of a problem in Thailand than many other areas of the world.

Very true - but in countries where accountability for actions is considered to be Not thai, taught and encouraged by society as a whole, the problem Thailand faces with these gangs is that where in some countries there is a line that kids will stop at because they know the law and society will jump on them, in Thailand the law and society protects them and covers up for them. The country can not contain this situation because to do so requires the adults in the population to change wholesale which they will never do.

[teatree]

Prison is university for criminals - if they went there they would make all kinds underworld contacts, setting them up for a life of crime when they get out.

What they need is some kind of rehabilitation program where they recieve discipline (probably for the 1st time in their lives) and are shown that there are consequences to their actions and that there is another way.

[RigPig]

Those 'students' are scared little cowards.

Prison time rather than boot camps would be the best and most effective way to deal with them.

Sorry guys I disagree, prison will make it worse as they will fall into their respective "gangs" in prison, if for no other reason for protection. Sport and the competition it brings with it's pride and sense of achievement is probably the best solution.

IMHO

[atlbravosfan]

How about we ban colleges and universities from hazing every single freshman student into becoming a member of their perceived 'group'? I live in Phuket right near Prince of Songkla University and there isn't one night the entire year where some large group of students isn't being hazed. I see students lined up, being shouted at my upper classmen, I see them being forced to learn dance routines and remember meaningless songs. How about instead of breeding a culture of group inclusion, we breed a culture of critical thinking and independent/empowered individuals. Show people that true power is helping others, being respectful, being humble. Cowards and weaklings rely on brute strength.

[somtampet]

Close all the vocational colleges and put the students where they belong - in rice paddies for 15 hours a day.

They'll never amount to anything anyway.

Idiotic post and typical from a farang middle class pompous tosser.U live Bangkok by any chance

[prakhonchai nick]

Lack of proper punishment for most crimes in Thailand is the problem. Motoring offences at best cost a couple of hundred baht - no licence suspension, pay offs by those with "friends", and the easy bail conditions, where murderers caught in the act are not only bailed after arrest, but bailed pending an appeal against conviction.

Hurt the criminals hard. Minimum fines of 5000bt, nobody exempt, no matter who you are or who you know, and meaningful prison sentences when required.

The youth (mainly just troublemakers rather than hardened criminals) should be pushed into minimum 2 years military service, and do away with conscription.

Fortunately, Thailand does not seem to have too many do -gooders, but I suppose with corrupt practices, they would not be required!

[chooka]

Farang Talk, I don't think prison is the answer. I remember back about 30 - 40 years ago in the US, a lot of these problems were solved by sending a bunch of these same kind of young kids into the military. It gave them discipline and even taught them a trade. I think it would be worth the effort to look at that for these so called gangs. just saying..

Thats not feel good lefty enough for the Europeans on board.

I believe Thailand already has compulsory military service.

[RigPig]

The key words are responsibility, accountability, discipline, hierarchy, face.........

Doesn't happen here, I even think the religion is biased toward people (even young children) being free to choose their own path no matter what and it will all come out in the wash one way or another. There is gonna be a cockroach infestation in this country in the not so distant future !!!

[brianmarinus]

Have you ever seen that prison can change youth behavior?

I believe that to solve these problems, first and foremost, by the Government and police, as well as parents and schools teach these young people some other values ​​and of course even appear to be good examples.

I know that there are many years ahead before this can happen here in Thailand, because of things as we all know, but believe that it is the only solution that is sustainable.

Nor do I think that you just have to say ... well, but that's it and then give up, even though there are long future prospects that things can be changed.

No, education and learning good values ​​must be the way forward.

Prison etc. is a solution to protect society against dangers-not intended to nurture and teach children and young people to behave properly and show themselves and other people respect.

[BookMan]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

It happens the world over TB67. Nothing new in it. You can say this about youth gangs in any country in the world. I would say myself they are less of a problem in Thailand than many other areas of the world.

If the "rest of the world" you are referring to is third world despotic hellholes than I would agree.

USA, England, Australia. All three are first world western countries and all have youth gang problems.

[travelmann]

abolish the stupid hierarchy system and that means to the TOP............ nothing will happen

[ronthai]

"The colleges prepare teenagers for a life of manual work, rather than going on to university, and the students are often viewed as low status by a society with a keen sense of hierarchy."

The above line in the news report explains it all and is the base of why Thailand will never grow in to a first world country.

Status >>> Look at me with all my gold (that will be in the pawn shop next month) as an example.

Just like most Asian countries there is an underlying cast system. A farmers family will always farmers, because that is their place in Thai society.

Come on Thailand (government) you know what the problems are, but you really do not care, since it does not affect your place/status/cast and you prefer it to stay this way, otherwise you will have the same status as a farmer in 20-30 years.

Usually it takes about 1 generation for basic changes to start.

(end corruption, better teachers/schools, etc., etc, no need for the full list, has been many many times done in so many other topics)

Edited September 4, 2012 by ronthai

[kingstonkid]

Before people start calling this a Thai problem i think you have to look at every country ans you will see street gangs. Actually it may be a lot more safer here than let's say Los Angelos or other california cities. even Toronto is getting bad.

[SABloke]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

It happens the world over TB67. Nothing new in it. You can say this about youth gangs in any country in the world. I would say myself they are less of a problem in Thailand than many other areas of the world.

If the "rest of the world" you are referring to is third world despotic hellholes than I would agree.

You're absolutely right - the UK has no student gangs and the streets are paved with gold.