Condo Appreciation Thoughts

[LawrenceChee]

Cheeryble

Sorrie mate you cannot find the building.

My Hip is just right behind Big C ..so if u swing in thru the super highway ...turn left at the intersection with Index Living Mall. Once you are along this road, my hip, jigsaw 1&2 , Hillside Payap are all along the same road.

As for North 8 Condo, it's on the website for land and house right now and if u know where the serenity lake entrance is, the sales office is right inside the moo baan. The serenity lake entrance must be one of the nicest looking entrance around the hang dong. It has 8 big white pillars that are almost 4-5 storey high

As for the one plus projects, I agree for the price of about $40,000 USD, it would be beyond reality to expect any furnishings of very high quality.

Just as some on this forum has suggested to buy the old popular condos for refurb and rental, these newer ones with the good locations can be treated in much the same way, paying for the investment for the outer core and then doing up the interior designs for a nicer abode whether it is for investment or self

The advantage with some of the newer condos is that the wiring, the wifi ,sewage, cable options are at times easier than some of the older buildings although the maintenance condition of what you buy plays a part in that.

I can see the advantage having state in supanich condo a older unit next to the railway station that the older buildings tend to have bigger units, toilet and balconies

[elektrified]

My Hip is just right behind Big C ..so if u swing in thru the super highway ...turn left at the intersection with Index Living Mall. Once you are along this road, my hip, jigsaw 1&2 , Hillside Payap are all along the same road.

OMG that would be a HORRIBLE place to live! On weekends there are walking street markets and cars parked everywhere, rubbish and food wrappers everywhere, and the music from the 20 or so bars in that area would make it even worse. There are also drunk students coming in and out all night long on motorcycles making all kinds of noise. Not to mention all the tour buses coming and going to Khum Khantoke and all the traffic from the huge building that has just been completed. Oh and I forgot - all the traffic from Home Pro and Big C.

Choke dee on speculating in that area!

[lizardtongue]

Get it out in as many agents, web sites, notice boards as possible, advertize it in other towns/cities that have a high ex pat community like Pattaya, Hua Hin, Phuket, you may be lucky and sell in a day or it might take until the end of the approaching 'high season', if it isn't sold by then you may have to think about dropping price!

[moe666]

.... When buying condos, one needs to look at the price per sqm to get an understanding of the value of them. And 36K compared to 60K per sqm is a BIG difference. Has my condo gone up in value, or is the new condo being built with ultra high end materials and is marketed as "luxury"? Don't know, maybe they meet somewhere in the middle?

How many baht per kilo should you pay for a car or truck?

Hahha, funny man.

Look, I was only taught by some of my friends that own 10+ condo units in Thailand, that you calculate the price per sqm. And thats what I did to show the appreciation between my condo, and what a new condo is going for. If you don't like comparing condos based on sqm, thats up to you, but you see many developers advertise their price PER SQM.

Thats typically how you buy any property, condos, single family house, commercial property, never heard of buying by any other method. Adding square footage or meters to a property is the only way to ensure increase in value.

[moe666]

My Hip is just right behind Big C ..so if u swing in thru the super highway ...turn left at the intersection with Index Living Mall. Once you are along this road, my hip, jigsaw 1&2 , Hillside Payap are all along the same road.

OMG that would be a HORRIBLE place to live! On weekends there are walking street markets and cars parked everywhere, rubbish and food wrappers everywhere, and the music from the 20 or so bars in that area would make it even worse. There are also drunk students coming in and out all night long on motorcycles making all kinds of noise. Not to mention all the tour buses coming and going to Khum Khantoke and all the traffic from the huge building that has just been completed. Oh and I forgot - all the traffic from Home Pro and Big C.

Choke dee on speculating in that area!

All of that is what makes some neighborhoods in demand.

[elektrified]

My Hip is just right behind Big C ..so if u swing in thru the super highway ...turn left at the intersection with Index Living Mall. Once you are along this road, my hip, jigsaw 1&2 , Hillside Payap are all along the same road.

OMG that would be a HORRIBLE place to live! On weekends there are walking street markets and cars parked everywhere, rubbish and food wrappers everywhere, and the music from the 20 or so bars in that area would make it even worse. There are also drunk students coming in and out all night long on motorcycles making all kinds of noise. Not to mention all the tour buses coming and going to Khum Khantoke and all the traffic from the huge building that has just been completed. Oh and I forgot - all the traffic from Home Pro and Big C.

Choke dee on speculating in that area!

All of that is what makes some neighborhoods in demand.

Hahahahaha sure.

[amexpat]

........ If you don't like comparing condos based on sqm, thats up to you, but you see many developers advertise their price PER SQM.

Thats typically how you buy any property, condos, single family house, commercial property, never heard of buying by any other method.

SQM is considered. Then come the adjustments for LOCATION, condition, quality of construction, floor level, view, amenities, etc., etc.

A 1000 sf condo in the US could sell for $200,000 - $2M depending on those factors.

Adding square footage or meters to a property is the only way to ensure increase in value.

So, why do investors rip out and renovate without adding any area?

[davejones]

Well, in regards to your original question about appreciation, at Mountain Front, we paid 3.2M for a 1 bedroom, 86.60 SQM unit. So we paid 36,951 per sqm. 4.4M for 73sqm and you are paying 60,273 per sqm. At that price, our unit would have cost 5.2M Baht. If that is not appreciation I do not know what is. We bought our unit about 2 years ago.

One bedroom compared to a two bedroom in a different project, management?, location?, view? floor level?, same city, though.

Yes, I am comparing a condo to another condo in Chiang mai. What is wrong with that? There will be an average price of what units are selling for. And its a two bedroom in a smaller unit, so I do not see your point. When buying condos, one needs to look at the price per sqm to get an understanding of the value of them. And 36K compared to 60K per sqm is a BIG difference. Has my condo gone up in value, or is the new condo being built with ultra high end materials and is marketed as "luxury"? Don't know, maybe they meet somewhere in the middle?

It's good to compare prices, but new buildings tend to sell for much more per sqm than old buildings. In Sukhumvit you can get a condo in an old building to 40k/sqm, or a new condo for 100K-200K per sqm. I think most people prefer to buy new if they can, especially as so many older buildings look in a bad way. But if it's an older building that's well maintained, then prices will be higher. One problem seems to be that people want their building to be maintained, but they don't actually want to pay for it. With a new building I'd expect everyone to sign a contract agreeing to reasonable annual increases in fees. If fees are fixed and owners have to vote in a few rise, then chances are that they will never go up. That will lead to not enough money being available for maintenance and the building will start falling apart - slowly or quickly.

[davejones]

.... When buying condos, one needs to look at the price per sqm to get an understanding of the value of them. And 36K compared to 60K per sqm is a BIG difference. Has my condo gone up in value, or is the new condo being built with ultra high end materials and is marketed as "luxury"? Don't know, maybe they meet somewhere in the middle?

How many baht per kilo should you pay for a car or truck?

Hahha, funny man.

Look, I was only taught by some of my friends that own 10+ condo units in Thailand, that you calculate the price per sqm. And thats what I did to show the appreciation between my condo, and what a new condo is going for. If you don't like comparing condos based on sqm, thats up to you, but you see many developers advertise their price PER SQM.

It is obvious that you do have to compare price per sqm, as that is the obvious starting point. You then take other factors into consideration. It's not like comparing the cost of cars per kilo at all. But the other factors do make a huge difference. e.g. what floor, view, how close to amenities, how many condos in total, management company, state of building, etc. But still, price per sqm has to be the starting point.

[davejones]

I know people who have been trying to sell condos in C.M. for years now with no serious offers.

That means that the selling price is too high. ALL condos will sell at the right price. It is almost impossible not to be able to sell a condo. When people say they can't sell, what they really mean is that no-one will buy at the price they want. These people just have an unrealistic view of the price that their condos are worth. It's really as simple as that. Send these people to me, as I will buy their condos for cash if the price is right. But I'm sure they'll want to much. Some condo prices in Thailand are crazy - much more expensive than in countries like the UK? 10m for a 2-bed condo in CM? That's probably around 40 times the average wage. Even in London prices are under 10 times average earnings.

[Jobo]

Starting at 2.2 million for the smallest studio units at 38sqm

4.4 for the 2 bedroom 73sqm ones and 6 for those with direct views at the front of Suthep and pool

The layout is good and the furnishings coming with it seems to set up properly

The land and house reputation is whats pushing me in that direction

Having seen many of the projects in Bangkok by them they have a food team looking after the estate most of the siwalee properties I drove through in Chiang Mai had a well kept feel about if

Well, in regards to your original question about appreciation, at Mountain Front, we paid 3.2M for a 1 bedroom, 86.60 SQM unit. So we paid 36,951 per sqm. 4.4M for 73sqm and you are paying 60,273 per sqm. At that price, our unit would have cost 5.2M Baht. If that is not appreciation I do not know what is. We bought our unit about 2 years ago.

Yes but could you sell it now as a 2nd hand unit for a price more than you paid for it?

[elektrified]

I know people who have been trying to sell condos in C.M. for years now with no serious offers.

That means that the selling price is too high. ALL condos will sell at the right price. It is almost impossible not to be able to sell a condo. When people say they can't sell, what they really mean is that no-one will buy at the price they want. These people just have an unrealistic view of the price that their condos are worth. It's really as simple as that. Send these people to me, as I will buy their condos for cash if the price is right. But I'm sure they'll want to much. Some condo prices in Thailand are crazy - much more expensive than in countries like the UK? 10m for a 2-bed condo in CM? That's probably around 40 times the average wage. Even in London prices are under 10 times average earnings.

"ALL condos will sell at the right price." That is not true. In C.M. there is far more supply than demand. I suppose if you give it away it will sell. I know people who are now trying to sell for less than they paid for their units several years ago. I wouldn't touch a condo here with a ten foot pole. I'll stick with shares that I can sell any time I need to (and make far better returns over time).

There is merit to the old saying "never invest anything in Thailand that you can't afford to walk away from".

Edited October 7, 2012 by elektrified

[justcruisin]

Any new or old buildings inside the Superhighway and Canal road will retain a premium price, the land value has a lot to do with pricing which no one has mentioned. 30 Million Bht and up is the going price per Rai now inside those roads.

Good management is also important to retain value. Smaller buildings with say 40-80 units will require a higher management fee per Sqm than say the Hillsides and Riverside.

Never buy an apartment in an area where there is predominantly student dormitories or close to a Uni. the noise at all hours is bad.

Lastly from what Ive seen, nearly every building that starts out well managed, then falls to sh#t after the developer has sold all and walked away. Then it is the time to step up and be involved in the day to day management. Take ownership and ensure that the property being managed. By this, I mean take a role on the committee, learn about the building, assist the manager in budgeting, future building improvements and be pro-active. unfortunately most owners sit back and let the "management" do their thing. Som num na

[justcruisin]

I know people who have been trying to sell condos in C.M. for years now with no serious offers.

That means that the selling price is too high. ALL condos will sell at the right price. It is almost impossible not to be able to sell a condo. When people say they can't sell, what they really mean is that no-one will buy at the price they want. These people just have an unrealistic view of the price that their condos are worth. It's really as simple as that. Send these people to me, as I will buy their condos for cash if the price is right. But I'm sure they'll want to much. Some condo prices in Thailand are crazy - much more expensive than in countries like the UK? 10m for a 2-bed condo in CM? That's probably around 40 times the average wage. Even in London prices are under 10 times average earnings.

"ALL condos will sell at the right price." That is not true. In C.M. there is far more supply than demand. I suppose if you give it away it will sell. I know people who are now trying to sell for less than they paid for their units several years ago. I wouldn't touch a condo here with a ten foot pole. I'll stick with shares that I can sell any time I need to (and make far better returns over time).

There is merit to the old saying "never invest anything in Thailand that you can't afford to walk away from".

Buy into shares in 2009 you would be still down now about 40% on total return and if you bought a good rental unit here the same time, you would be up around 45% on your investment.

I know as I had both. That is if I actually sold the apartment on todays market.

[Jobo]

I know people who have been trying to sell condos in C.M. for years now with no serious offers.

That means that the selling price is too high. ALL condos will sell at the right price. It is almost impossible not to be able to sell a condo. When people say they can't sell, what they really mean is that no-one will buy at the price they want. These people just have an unrealistic view of the price that their condos are worth. It's really as simple as that. Send these people to me, as I will buy their condos for cash if the price is right. But I'm sure they'll want to much. Some condo prices in Thailand are crazy - much more expensive than in countries like the UK? 10m for a 2-bed condo in CM? That's probably around 40 times the average wage. Even in London prices are under 10 times average earnings.

"ALL condos will sell at the right price." That is not true. In C.M. there is far more supply than demand. I suppose if you give it away it will sell. I know people who are now trying to sell for less than they paid for their units several years ago. I wouldn't touch a condo here with a ten foot pole. I'll stick with shares that I can sell any time I need to (and make far better returns over time).

There is merit to the old saying "never invest anything in Thailand that you can't afford to walk away from".

Totally agreed. This is especially true in Chiang Mai if not in say Bangkok or Phuket for example. If I wanted out in a hurry I'd have to give my house away effectively, as it's at the high end in terms of what it cost! Would never ever invest in real estate here and maybe I shouldn't have built my own house either for that matter! At least I have a Thai born son who I could give it to.

[Jobo]

Any new or old buildings inside the Superhighway and Canal road will retain a premium price, the land value has a lot to do with pricing which no one has mentioned. 30 Million Bht and up is the going price per Rai now inside those roads.

Good management is also important to retain value. Smaller buildings with say 40-80 units will require a higher management fee per Sqm than say the Hillsides and Riverside.

Never buy an apartment in an area where there is predominantly student dormitories or close to a Uni. the noise at all hours is bad.

Lastly from what Ive seen, nearly every building that starts out well managed, then falls to sh#t after the developer has sold all and walked away. Then it is the time to step up and be involved in the day to day management. Take ownership and ensure that the property being managed. By this, I mean take a role on the committee, learn about the building, assist the manager in budgeting, future building improvements and be pro-active. unfortunately most owners sit back and let the "management" do their thing. Som num na

Can you put me in touch with anyone who will pay me 30 million per rai in an area off the Canal Rd? I have 5 rai there which I'd be willing to discount just a little at that price!

The Canal Rd extends from Hoy Tung Tow (spelling) to Sanpatong so that's a big area.

[Jobo]

I know people who have been trying to sell condos in C.M. for years now with no serious offers.

That means that the selling price is too high. ALL condos will sell at the right price. It is almost impossible not to be able to sell a condo. When people say they can't sell, what they really mean is that no-one will buy at the price they want. These people just have an unrealistic view of the price that their condos are worth. It's really as simple as that. Send these people to me, as I will buy their condos for cash if the price is right. But I'm sure they'll want to much. Some condo prices in Thailand are crazy - much more expensive than in countries like the UK? 10m for a 2-bed condo in CM? That's probably around 40 times the average wage. Even in London prices are under 10 times average earnings.

"ALL condos will sell at the right price." That is not true. In C.M. there is far more supply than demand. I suppose if you give it away it will sell. I know people who are now trying to sell for less than they paid for their units several years ago. I wouldn't touch a condo here with a ten foot pole. I'll stick with shares that I can sell any time I need to (and make far better returns over time).

There is merit to the old saying "never invest anything in Thailand that you can't afford to walk away from".

Buy into shares in 2009 you would be still down now about 40% on total return and if you bought a good rental unit here the same time, you would be up around 45% on your investment.

I know as I had both. That is if I actually sold the apartment on todays market.

I guess you didn't invest in Thai Stocks then my friend . If you invested in the west and especially Australia in 2009 then that might be the case. If you had invested in the SET you might be up at least 50% in that time. And in that time some of my managed funds are up 125%. And I can sell today or any other day and immediately realise my capital.Beat that with a condo!

[Briggsy]

OMG that would be a HORRIBLE place to live! On weekends there are walking street markets and cars parked everywhere, rubbish and food wrappers everywhere, and the music from the 20 or so bars in that area would make it even worse. There are also drunk students coming in and out all night long on motorcycles making all kinds of noise. Not to mention all the tour buses coming and going to Khum Khantoke and all the traffic from the huge building that has just been completed. Oh and I forgot - all the traffic from Home Pro and Big C.

Choke dee on speculating in that area!

I checked out these condos last week for rental.

Jigsaw seemed nice but hard to justify the price. I wonder what market they are going after. Students from affluent families or companies paying their employees a rental allowance, perhaps.

I couldn't find My Hip. Silly me.

The Hillside 7, 8, 9 and 10 were looking a bit old.

But what really put me off were the pubs (pubs in Thailand mean loud music till the early hours) and the construction. There was loads of it. It is a business park in the process of being built. The noise could be torture.

[mamborobert]

I guess you didn't invest in Thai Stocks then my friend . If you invested in the west and especially Australia in 2009 then that might be the case. If you had invested in the SET you might be up at least 50% in that time. And in that time some of my managed funds are up 125%. And I can sell today or any other day and immediately realise my capital.Beat that with a condo!

True and not true.The gains in SET have been made of a low base as it took many years to even partially recover from the Asian Stock Market Crisis of 1997. Though they paid the IMF back earlier (2003 I think) the SET is still not that broad or that robust. All I'm trying to point out is that Property or Shares you are always going to make money or lose money depending on what period you are in or looking at. You could have sold your shares easily in the past and made a horrific loss but shares do have liquidity as a bonus (whatever the return). Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

The SET had an upper 70% fall in 1997.

At present the SET is certainly the way to go and the abundance of empty and non completed condo projects (many that were stalled or ceased for a while after the 97 crisis) is a worry. A condo can be a good positively geared investment if you have a good tenant but thats far from a given (see all the empty condos). Generally now you would get a better return with cash in a term deposit in say Australia as you have mentioned.

Edited October 8, 2012 by mamborobert

[Jobo]

The guy mentioned 2009 so I used that as the basis for comparison. I know all about 1997 and 2008.

Picking individual stocks provides a much better return than just using the SET (ETF). However, in any case the SET once again is one of the best performing bourses.

You are correct about another possible bubble resulting from the number of condos going up all over the country. Over supply looming? And as you will know this was the cause of the "tom yung goong" crisis in 1997.

Of course there are ups and downs. I'm not a day trader unlike most Thais here who are encouraged to day trade,lose their money and become disillusioned with the stock market.

What then do they do with all their wealth ( or bank loans)? The only thing they know - build moo bahns and condos!

[justcruisin]

Any new or old buildings inside the Superhighway and Canal road will retain a premium price, the land value has a lot to do with pricing which no one has mentioned. 30 Million Bht and up is the going price per Rai now inside those roads.

Good management is also important to retain value. Smaller buildings with say 40-80 units will require a higher management fee per Sqm than say the Hillsides and Riverside.

Never buy an apartment in an area where there is predominantly student dormitories or close to a Uni. the noise at all hours is bad.

Lastly from what Ive seen, nearly every building that starts out well managed, then falls to sh#t after the developer has sold all and walked away. Then it is the time to step up and be involved in the day to day management. Take ownership and ensure that the property being managed. By this, I mean take a role on the committee, learn about the building, assist the manager in budgeting, future building improvements and be pro-active. unfortunately most owners sit back and let the "management" do their thing. Som num na

Can you put me in touch with anyone who will pay me 30 million per rai in an area off the Canal Rd? I have 5 rai there which I'd be willing to discount just a little at that price!

The Canal Rd extends from Hoy Tung Tow (spelling) to Sanpatong so that's a big area.

The land I refer to is on Huay Keow Rd where I think its called The Harbor is being built.

I believe a lot of the land along there was purchased by a Bangkok consortium including the new construction going on at Rincome junction.

[cheeryble]

Well, its under 2 years old, so its not exactly run down like hillside or riverside. .

That's the thing about a proper maintenance system.

It may interest you to know that the column piping in Hillside is already replaced and the "big plumbing" and pumps are certainly newer than your 2year old condo.

Same goes for the filtration system.

BTW all condo buildings are subject to an annual survey by a qualified firm.

The Hillside pool is just about to be rebuilt and will I guess have salt water...so that will effectively be "newer and better" than yours.

Skybreeze already has a stunning (and large) rebuilt saltwater pool and new water piping pumps etc and new electrical fittings in public areas and floor tiles partially done, so some of that is "newer" than yours. Some of the condos there and at Hillside are of an extremely high standard inside (even a granite steam room!), far higher than you will ever get in any new building unless you pay an extra 10,000 per sqm and wait for a long time while the marble gets laid, the granite bathroom goes in etc etc. That proportion of high end units in older buildings increases slowly but surely.

Everything gets older, and everything can be dealt with.

Not criticising, just saying.

Edited October 15, 2012 by cheeryble

[cheeryble]

Never buy an apartment in an area where there is predominantly student dormitories or close to a Uni. the noise at all hours is bad.

Skybreeze actually borders CMU and is wonderfully quiet, it's a big plus there, and absolutely no traffic noise.

Behind it is a small student dorm. I don't know if the owners of that dorm have strict rules but dogs are never seen or heard in the area (apart from the Skybreeze mascot) and have never, never ever, heard ANYTHING from the residents.

[watcharacters]

Heya Vibe

I did enjoy my stay at mountain front when I was there for 2 months

It's a quiet apartment abd neighborhood and the 2 ladies at the reception are great help with everything

The free shuttle to kad soon keuy was great as well :-)

Free shuttles are likely to go the way of security. A couple of years after they've placed all the units it'll be down to calling a cab.

YEP...

[cheeryble]

I used to live at hillside 4 for 6 years......

All those upgrades are not free, thats YOUR condo fees paying for them all,

I believe the Hillside 4 fees are much less than the new condos which even the standard ones are 25baht/sqm/month.

I sthat not so.....and isn't staffing and maintenance exactly what fees are for?

How can you complain about the fees there when you're willing to pay much more?

including the 1M baht lifts (scam).

Specifically what makes you the the lifts are some sort of scam? (please no vagaries, that would be unfair not to say illegal). The upgrade was considerable and they are now high speed lifts so the whole system must have been renewed. how do you know he didn't get a great deal, because a control system alone can cost a fortune.

The fact is the person ruling the roost is very highly experienced indeed. Could it be he in fact saved you and himself a pile of money? As the fees suggest, even if things aren't exactly to your liking oversightwise, it might still be a great deal for the expertise he brings.

And the older the building gets, the more money will need to be sunk into it just to maintain it, let alone improve it.

Once a building goes through it's first couple of decades the fees should be stable if they're properly calculated. On the other hand it looks to me like the new buildings are not only charging much more in fees, but as you say they don't need any renovations for a while (though of course they will).......so as you are very aware of scams could the developer for instance be doing the "snagging" or "borrowing" to repay loans on your buck instead of his? Or does he just want to feel very safe against any eventuality......but at your cost?

I will take my 2 year old building anyday over hillside.

Fair enough, but do you know how things will turn out?

And do you know that twenty years of shakes including some I thought were quite nasty will only cause one little crack (which we haven't seen and which must have been OK'd by the surveyor and was most likely not structural but merely in the infill or plaster work......most buildings have some cracks) in a huge building?

Again.....just another way of looking at it.....we are all entitled to our opinion.

Edited October 15, 2012 by cheeryble

[cheeryble]

Hi Vibe

I don't want to enter a pissing contest, just pointing out an alternative way of looking at things.

I am playing devils advocate, though in the case of Hillside, where I keep an eye on a friend's unit, I think the devil ain't doing too bad, and that building will be there in a highly desirable central position for another half century after which you could sell out at a fantastic profit for redevelopment when CM is a city of millions.

It seems to me that when you have a dictator who owns 20% of the space he's going to make sure things are kept OK. When he wins, you win. I sometimes think the right dictatorship may be better in both condos and governments, at least things get done.

Even if you spent a couple of baht more on your fees than necessary it may be the best baht you spent, you're getting everything on a plate (though the opposite is the case, you spend ten baht persqm or more extra in the new places that supposedly don't need to spend it on maintenance).

As for overweight, it's hearsay. What I do know is when people lay granite or marble floors it's often on a two inch bed making three inches of extra floor, a very considerable addition in weight. You should have been very happy to hear it was banned.......as is workmen making noise out of hours and dirt left outside renovations which attracts an instant fine. As for your crack, if it looks like it's moved you can guarantee it's not structural as those beams are not only rebarred for beam and column strength but with regular tie-squares to hold them together in immensely strong form.

Take a look at my ex temporary home Chatrium Suites in BKK to see the amazing strength of reinforced concrete. 36 floors (and I lived on the 36th an amazing double-height unit with a helipad outside!) stand on 6 flimsy looking columns a mere few square metres which are not even at the edge they are towards the centre. Hillside by contrast has the load spread across the whole building with hundreds of columns in a honeycomb much stronger again.

Ps: you passed on backing up your comment about the lifts being a scam. You thought them expensive, One million to me sounds very cheap given all the running gear was changed for 15 floors as well. Bear in mind you are not buying a cut price floor at you are buying something which has to be fitted perfectly and to last at least twenty years.

Then you went on to another passing allegation about the cameras. Very easy to make these unsupported claims. I'm not saying they're true or not true but I was once on a committee elsewhere. We were accused regularly by one particular oddball who always looked at the glass half empty. This seems to happen at every condo, there's always someone who will accuse and accuse and as soon as you ask for evidence they change to some new fantasy. It no doubt will happen in your new condo......IF the other units sell and you're lucky enough to get a proper committee formed.

Please don't take offence.....

Edited October 16, 2012 by cheeryble

[binjalin]

Im not complaining about fees, just reminding the poster that all those "newer and better" upgrades were not free, that he helped pay for them.

Not going to go into the lift topic here. If you think "he" went out of his way to save you money, well, what can I say? May I have a pari of those rose colored glasses too?

Check to see the cost for the CCTV system as well....you might be shocked.

I am sure there is more than one crack in the building, and the crack I mentioned appears to be more than superficial. Looks as if a large chunk has shifted. Also, when I was doing my renos, the manager told me not to use any stone, cause the building was over weight. She would only have got that info from an engineer. Still safe? Sure. A building approaching its design limits....yes. And the pool on the roof only adds to that issue.

Look, we are all going to defend our own homes, as I did when I lived there. But now that I do not, I can see the forrest through the trees.

I still stand by my original comment that its run down. Have they fixed the water leaks in the lobby yet?? 6 years I watched water drop on the floor. Saw one lady slip and fall as well. Nothing changed. Now where is that very "experienced" guy that you mentioned??

whatever the faults of H4 you cannot compare the location of MF with H4 which is by far a better location - and it's actually buzzing! parking? yes a problem but the Japs love it and it's jammed full!!!

[binjalin]

Starting at 2.2 million for the smallest studio units at 38sqm

4.4 for the 2 bedroom 73sqm ones and 6 for those with direct views at the front of Suthep and pool

The layout is good and the furnishings coming with it seems to set up properly

The land and house reputation is whats pushing me in that direction

Having seen many of the projects in Bangkok by them they have a food team looking after the estate most of the siwalee properties I drove through in Chiang Mai had a well kept feel about if

Well, in regards to your original question about appreciation, at Mountain Front, we paid 3.2M for a 1 bedroom, 86.60 SQM unit. So we paid 36,951 per sqm. 4.4M for 73sqm and you are paying 60,273 per sqm. At that price, our unit would have cost 5.2M Baht. If that is not appreciation I do not know what is. We bought our unit about 2 years ago.

Yes but could you sell it now as a 2nd hand unit for a price more than you paid for it?

Well, its under 2 years old, so its not exactly run down like hillside or riverside. Can I sell it for more than I paid? I do not know, as its not for sale. But I believe I can, and would of course start at a much higher price than what I paid, especially now after seeing that what some new buildings are going for.

We also have some land that we paid 6500 Baht per talang wah. That was early in the year, and now there is land on the market for 15000B per talang wah, just two plots over from ours. Can I get that price for our land? I do not know, but what I do know, is that I would start listing it at a lot more than 6500 since we can not find any in the area that is listed at that price. Most is listed at 10K and up.

everybody, I mean everybody, justifies their purchases (as you are here with your room and land) and we do it with cars, rooms and women! everyone finds supporting 'evidence' to justify why they took the right decision but don't over cook it! and over-run down other places! there are some good condos around and some rubbish but LOCATION is the most important. you can change your room, change the committee, the JPM and have 'free shuttles' (for now) but you can't change the location and for many of us being in town is preferable and there is no one-stop solution that fits all. good luck

[sitta]

A 1bed 70sqm condominium,old around 20/25 years, empty no fittings or furniture, located to the right of the super HWY, behind Makro super market, 10 Min to the center of CM, what it is worth?

Since most people here have good knowledge re: CM condo's, some one can help me with this please?

[cheeryble]

Two good posts Binjalin

.....the central locations will always add to desirability for a lot of people.

I must say though for those willing to drive every time the blocks on the edge of town......and now the Scene and so on are going up actually outside town......can be a pleasant alternative. (though in the case if Chang Kian the first one got it's view partially stolen and now another Korean place may impair the view to that second one. This is of course happening to 103 off Nimmanhemin which is losing it's view completely to the expensive and to me unattractive Unique. Happily for Hillside residents it's been said that the plot for sale next door can only be low rise and their chairman has a lot of clout to protect his own investment)

One of my friends has put a deposit at the Scene. Trouble is that was a very long time ago now, and whilst the girl in the office keeps saying they nearly got permission only a molehill is visible in the long grass. It,ll be a year before long and that's a long time when you want to move in.

Vibe, I've promised to keep my eyes open for a new condo maybe 100 to 140sqm plus for another friend moving here part time. I'm very interested in how things are in the newer blocks.

As an example is MF which you own sold out? Does it yet have a committee fully run by buyers?

Do you know about the other blocks up there, the one with the blue windows right on the main road which Thais will love but farang will hate (Convention?) and so on? I once popped into Touch Hill and was not at all impressed with the cheap finish in the units, they would need upgrading before moving in for many people. How are the others? Thanks!

Edited October 17, 2012 by cheeryble