Bangkok: Second Flood Test Cancelled

[Skywalker69]

Water agency cancels Friday water flow testing on east side of Bangkok after heavy rain, flooding in many locations /MCOT

- so there is no need to do any test, because a few hours of natural rain proved that the city floods! - imagine what a few days of rain would do!!

And that takes a group of high status politicians and so called doctor degree scientists to figure THAT out!!!!

Yes it does, people like the Propeller MP.

[Thaddeus]

It's gonna rain big time for at least two months, so what's all the testing good for???

Absolutely nothin' .........say it again.

[whybother]

It's like "It's raining, so I can't go swimming or I will get wet".

It's flooding, so we can't test the flood defences.

[mahtin]

Rain so loud on my roof in Khon Kaen almost Udon Thani I can't hear myself drink.

[phiphidon]

And THB 300 M for maintenance of pumps? What - you gonna gold plate the little suckers?

It appears to be 300 million baht more than was paid out before for maintenance of anything in the BMA and probably a reflection of that previous lack of maintenance is that the cost is so high.

[Mosha]

It's gonna rain big time for at least two months, so what's all the testing good for???

Absolutely nothin' .........say it again.

Thanks, I read his post, and the song was going through my head. You were right on cue

[billd766]

In the back of my head I can hear the BMA Deputy Governer saying

"I told you that this may happen" but they said he didn't know what he was talking about.

[jonnyscot]

and they let the canals go to max again before opening. Rangsit is almost to the top of the banks this morning

Same up suphanburi way, in fact during the floods of last year the canals where I live were never close to this high, officials here somehow arent keen on opening the gates to reduce the water level,, makes me wonder about the validity of the results of these tests,,

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[BillyBobThai]

If you want a large pump like New Orleans now have, you need an engine like this:

Edited September 7, 2012 by BillyBobThai

[SOTIRIOS]

.....duh......heavy rain caused flooding.....means they have accomplished nothing....touting these 'tests' is just a gimmick........

...(.....where have the 3 billion gone.... they couldn't even mete out water fairly during the floods........God(s) help us.....)

[hellodolly]

Lets hope they don't floods rest of the rice paddies in Ayutthaya.

As if they cared

[barefoot1988]

not a scientist here so i don't fully understand how all these work but it better be. last year flood was really agonizing so they better to be doing proper work than shitting around.

[ScouseTommy]

Is it just me wondering why they have waited a year to run all these tests and announce the flood prevention measures, and what they are going to build? October last year was the start of the big flood and that is less than a month away!! I know lets form a few committees and sub-committees and spend a small fortune discussing what measure can we exploit to make us look good whilst earning our close friends the maximum amount of money.......... More and more of a joke!

[Thait Spot]

If you want a large pump like New Orleans now have, you need an engine like this:

You'd turn every Bangkok toilet into a foul smelling geyser with that horrendous monster.

It'd be raining sanitary ware all over the Chao Phraya delta

[rubl]

The government's first test was conducted Wednesday along the canal network in the west side of the capital. Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said the overall testing on Wednesday was completed satisfactorily-both in terms of the performance of government officials and the flow of water.

Wednesday's tests successful in terms of

- performance of government officials (no panic)

- flow of water (seawards)

Friday tests cancelled. Where did they stow or let flow the water reserved for the tests?

[Insight]

And THB 300 M for maintenance of pumps? What - you gonna gold plate the little suckers?

It appears to be 300 million baht more than was paid out before for maintenance of anything in the BMA and probably a reflection of that previous lack of maintenance is that the cost is so high.

I'd love to know how you stay motivated. Seriously.

[Thai at Heart]

FLOOD DRAINAGE TEST

Test cancelled: Royal Chitradon

The Nation, Thai News Agency

Royal

BANGKOK: -- Water drainage test in Bangkok's eastern region have been cancelled due to the large amount of rain yesterday, said Royal Chitradon, chairman of the Water and Flood Management Commission's sub-committee on water situation analysis.

The rainfall was measured at 60-90 millimetres over wide areas, raising the water level in Klong Song to 1.02 metres from mean sea level despite no additional water from upstream being discharged to the canal, he said. He is director of the Hydro and Agro Informatics Institute.

Last night, all equipment prepared for the test was used to drain the water. All seven water pushing machines drained water satisfactorily and effectively within two hours. It was seen that the water level downstream in Klong Lat Phrao dropped quickly.

Royal said the water agency will discuss today whether the drainage test in Bangkok’s' eastern canals should be rescheduled.

The government's first test was conducted Wednesday along the canal network in the west side of the capital. Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said the overall testing on Wednesday was completed satisfactorily-both in terms of the performance of government officials and the flow of water.

The test is aimed at helping the water agency to evaluate the effectiveness of the canals and pumps in draining water into the sea in preparation of the northern run-off in October.

-- The Nation 2012-09-07

So Thailand has invented a water pushing machine.

Is that a pump to us lesser mortals or did they find a design from the age of victorian English?

[Thai at Heart]

If you want a large pump like New Orleans now have, you need an engine like this:

Ah, a farang water pushing machine. Will never work in Thailand, not same.

[RubbaJohnny]

I'm feeling a tad moist already just awoke from my siesta what happened to the drought? Or was that just a drought of talent?

[pedro01]

Krughtep Krita was flooded today- sort of happy they wont test again....

[santanaclaus]

i think its gonna flood these people have no idea what they are doing

[MILT]

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, meanwhile, said the committee did not release large volumes of water during the tests on Wednesday in the western part of Bangkok because it would have affected several residential areas along the canals.

So as long as the rain is not a heavy rain residential areas will be safe? So the canals do work for the most part as long as the volume of water doesn't cause any flooding. Right! and now for something completely different.

[ResX]

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, meanwhile, said the committee did not release large volumes of water during the tests on Wednesday in the western part of Bangkok because it would have affected several residential areas along the canals.

So as long as the rain is not a heavy rain residential areas will be safe? So the canals do work for the most part as long as the volume of water doesn't cause any flooding. Right! and now for something completely different.

I have predicted the possibility of higher than usual occurrences of flash floods this year in one of my old posts. No, I'm not an expert in weather forecast. But the Physics and the mathematics of rainfalls and rivers that I know enable me to come with such prediction.

By the end of November last year Bhumibol and Sirkit dam have an additional assignment to discharge at least 7billion cubic meter of water over the next than months. Thus, is equivalent to average discharge of 270 cubic meter per second, continuously. Meanwhile average discharge of the Chao Pharaya measured at its river mouth near the sea is 2,500 cubic meter per second. If the Chao Pharaya final discharge is about 4,800 cubic meters per second, that mean close to 15 billion cubic meter of waters has already "trapped" somewhere at the upstream- the 2011 major flood scenario. At 3,300 cubic meter per second there is very realistic chance a few areas upstream have already been inundated.

Even you are assuming average discharge scenario of the Chao Pharaya @ 2,500 cubic meter per second in 2012, then 50% of the time its final discharge will become 2,770 (2,500+270) cubic meter per second. So the safe margin before the river banks is breached is 570 cubic meter per second, assuming the first breach occurs at 3,300 cubic meter per second.

Even without the test this margin is pretty low. But, I insist that is almost the best that it can be done. We still can improve here and there by varying the discharges from all dams according to real time conditions but basically the improvement is marginal.

The problem is even a normal rainfall that you can see any in month, once every four years can have intensity as as high as 6, 000 cubic meter per second that might last in 4-7 hours. If such rainfall hits sufficiently big catchment area then flash flood is the most possible scenario.

How the Water Management Authorities fair? They decided to release 12 billion cubic meter from those two monsters in the North, i.e. the average of 460 cubic meter per second. That reduced the safe margin from 570 by 190 cubic meter per second (460-270). As a result the average margin has become 390 cubic meter per second! Honestly speaking I don't think that additional water for the test is required to violate the 390 cubic meter per second limit because we don't include discharges from many other dams down stream. Not surprising just after the test initiated you can see the ultimate consequence.

Do you think that the authorities could see this tight margin scenario way back to end of November last year before they came out from meeting room? I don't think so.

BTW- I still beleive the hidden motive of the test is to draw down water levels for the dams downstream. As you can see the margin is very tight even if I excluded all dams beside those two monsters.

Edited September 7, 2012 by ResX

[Skywalker69]

If you want a large pump like New Orleans now have, you need an engine like this:

If it was pumps like this Thaksin bought from South Korea I can understad why they haven´t reached Thailand yet.

[Thaddeus]

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, meanwhile, said the committee did not release large volumes of water during the tests on Wednesday in the western part of Bangkok because it would have affected several residential areas along the canals.

So as long as the rain is not a heavy rain residential areas will be safe? So the canals do work for the most part as long as the volume of water doesn't cause any flooding. Right! and now for something completely different.

I have predicted the possibility of higher than usual occurrences of flash floods this year in one of my old posts. No, I'm not an expert in weather forecast. But the Physics and the mathematics of rainfalls and rivers that I know enable me to come with such prediction.

By the end of November last year Bhumibol and Sirkit dam have an additional assignment to discharge at least 7billion cubic meter of water over the next than months. Thus, is equivalent to average discharge of 270 cubic meter per second, continuously. Meanwhile average discharge of the Chao Pharaya measured at its river mouth near the sea is 2,500 cubic meter per second. If the Chao Pharaya final discharge is about 4,800 cubic meters per second, that mean close to 15 billion cubic meter of waters has already "trapped" somewhere at the upstream- the 2011 major flood scenario. At 3,300 cubic meter per second there is very realistic chance a few areas upstream have already been inundated.

Even you are assuming average discharge scenario of the Chao Pharaya @ 2,500 cubic meter per second in 2012, then 50% of the time its final discharge will become 2,770 (2,500+270) cubic meter per second. So the safe margin before the river banks is breached is 570 cubic meter per second, assuming the first breach occurs at 3,300 cubic meter per second.

Even without the test this margin is pretty low. But, I insist that is almost the best that it can be done. We still can improve here and there by varying the discharges from all dams according to real time conditions but basically the improvement is marginal.

The problem is even a normal rainfall that you can see any in month, once every four years can have intensity as as high as 6, 000 cubic meter per second that might last in 4-7 hours. If such rainfall hits sufficiently big catchment area then flash flood is the most possible scenario.

How the Water Management Authorities fair? They decided to release 12 billion cubic meter from those two monsters in the North, i.e. the average of 460 cubic meter per second. That reduced the safe margin from 570 by 190 cubic meter per second (460-270). As a result the average margin has become 390 cubic meter per second! Honestly speaking I don't think that additional water for the test is required to violate the 390 cubic meter per second limit because we don't include discharges from many other dams down stream. Not surprising just after the test initiated you can see the ultimate consequence.

Do you think that the authorities could see this tight margin scenario way back to end of November last year before they came out from meeting room? I don't think so.

BTW- I still beleive the hidden motive of the test is to draw down water levels for the dams downstream. As you can see the margin is very tight even if I excluded all dams beside those two monsters.

That is such a cool post, I have the utmost admiration for some one who knows their job that in depth, and is willing to take the time to explain this situation in what I would describe as 'understandable detail'

And, no, I am not taking the Michael, I meant that.

But, I have a question, how much of the water that hit Bangkok and Ayuthaya last year came from the klongs, rivers etc and how much of it never spent any time in a semi-controlled waterway?

[ResX]

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, meanwhile, said the committee did not release large volumes of water during the tests on Wednesday in the western part of Bangkok because it would have affected several residential areas along the canals.

So as long as the rain is not a heavy rain residential areas will be safe? So the canals do work for the most part as long as the volume of water doesn't cause any flooding. Right! and now for something completely different.

I have predicted the possibility of higher than usual occurrences of flash floods this year in one of my old posts. No, I'm not an expert in weather forecast. But the Physics and the mathematics of rainfalls and rivers that I know enable me to come with such prediction.

By the end of November last year Bhumibol and Sirkit dam have an additional assignment to discharge at least 7billion cubic meter of water over the next than months. Thus, is equivalent to average discharge of 270 cubic meter per second, continuously. Meanwhile average discharge of the Chao Pharaya measured at its river mouth near the sea is 2,500 cubic meter per second. If the Chao Pharaya final discharge is about 4,800 cubic meters per second, that mean close to 15 billion cubic meter of waters has already "trapped" somewhere at the upstream- the 2011 major flood scenario. At 3,300 cubic meter per second there is very realistic chance a few areas upstream have already been inundated.

Even you are assuming average discharge scenario of the Chao Pharaya @ 2,500 cubic meter per second in 2012, then 50% of the time its final discharge will become 2,770 (2,500+270) cubic meter per second. So the safe margin before the river banks is breached is 570 cubic meter per second, assuming the first breach occurs at 3,300 cubic meter per second.

Even without the test this margin is pretty low. But, I insist that is almost the best that it can be done. We still can improve here and there by varying the discharges from all dams according to real time conditions but basically the improvement is marginal.

The problem is even a normal rainfall that you can see any in month, once every four years can have intensity as as high as 6, 000 cubic meter per second that might last in 4-7 hours. If such rainfall hits sufficiently big catchment area then flash flood is the most possible scenario.

How the Water Management Authorities fair? They decided to release 12 billion cubic meter from those two monsters in the North, i.e. the average of 460 cubic meter per second. That reduced the safe margin from 570 by 190 cubic meter per second (460-270). As a result the average margin has become 390 cubic meter per second! Honestly speaking I don't think that additional water for the test is required to violate the 390 cubic meter per second limit because we don't include discharges from many other dams down stream. Not surprising just after the test initiated you can see the ultimate consequence.

Do you think that the authorities could see this tight margin scenario way back to end of November last year before they came out from meeting room? I don't think so.

BTW- I still beleive the hidden motive of the test is to draw down water levels for the dams downstream. As you can see the margin is very tight even if I excluded all dams beside those two monsters.

That is such a cool post, I have the utmost admiration for some one who knows their job that in depth, and is willing to take the time to explain this situation in what I would describe as 'understandable detail'

And, no, I am not taking the Michael, I meant that.

But, I have a question, how much of the water that hit Bangkok and Ayuthaya last year came from the klongs, rivers etc and how much of it never spent any time in a semi-controlled waterway?

I used info from Wiki. Minus all dams and water retention facilities, the Chao Pharaya has natural storage close to 1.7 billion cubic meter, average. Last year the figure that I approximated based on various info from public domains and my intellectual guess, was 2.0billion cubic meter. If there is 15 billion cubic meter of water traps somewhere up there, we can take for granted that at least 13 billion cubic meter is not resided within the the Chao Pharaya natural storage.