Floods In Bangkok After Thursday's Rain Raise Questions On Drainage

[Tanaka]

Can't believe these clowns still think that so called "Water Pushing" works!!.

Ahh, Plodprasop will be ready soon with 1000 tugboats. The government knows that and because of that, they did not bother to improve on the canal and drainage systems.

[candid]

The problem is NOT heavy rain IN Bangkok, but heavy rain upstream........North and North East. This will cause the rivers to swell and the water-reservoir to fill up to unhealthy levels.

For as much as I have tried, I cannot work out exactly what you mean by your post. Are you trying to shift the blame for Bangkok flooding to other parts of Thailand? Or what?

[Arkady]

A larger flotilla of boats churning their engines on the Chaopraya is the answer, compared with more generous offerings to the Water Goddess made by the Bangkok governor, and more sincere tears from Kittirat when he sees industrial estates going under - his "white tears" last years didn't do the trick.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Arkady

[Jim walker]

Ok, development with a little common sense would be a start.

Development comes with a good back hander bribe its got zilch to do with common sense

[Bagwan]

I offer a suggestion that might appeal to some. Mobilise the entire Thai population into an 'I'm backing Thailand' campaign, issue every person with a paddle and direct them to suitable places on the banks of rivers, and then get them to paddle the naughty water away 24/7. Pay at 100 baht per day, free tee shirt and as much som tam as you can eat - but don't stop paddling.

Should be a winner - and Plodprasop can blame everybody for not working hard enough if this super scheme doesn't work.

Whatever J. Peasemould Gruntfuttock says, putting your finger in a dyke is fraught with danger.

[OzMick]

I offer a suggestion that might appeal to some. Mobilise the entire Thai population into an 'I'm backing Thailand' campaign, issue every person with a paddle and direct them to suitable places on the banks of rivers, and then get them to paddle the naughty water away 24/7. Pay at 100 baht per day, free tee shirt and as much som tam as you can eat - but don't stop paddling.

Should be a winner - and Plodprasop can blame everybody for not working hard enough if this super scheme doesn't work.

Whatever J. Peasemould Gruntfuttock says, putting your finger in a dyke is fraught with danger.

Sorry, 48% of the population have enrolled in the "I'm back-stabbing Thailand" campaign and therefore unavailable to do anything in the national interest as they are too busy looking after their own.

[Farang0tang]

What happened to the big tunnel idea?

[Ricardo]

Don't worry, those South Korean pumps must be due to arrive soon, and save the Shinawatra government day !

[GeorgeO]

There is actually another major problem in all this flooding. Bangkok being built on a flood plain, mud & sediment base, through lack of town planning, have been continually building enormous structures compressing the underlying 'soft' support, thus sinking the land.

Water as an element finds its own level (science 101) and Bangkok is at sea level already and water cannot drain easily. Dredging depth in a canal does not make water run when the sea level is higher than the depth of the canal. Widening the water course may, providing the water in the canals has the ability to flow towards the sea.

I would bring back the Dutch water management experts, (after all Amsterdam is below sea level and they have that contained), set up dykes and do a bit more town planning before allowing the next high rise to be built. Reclaim the land where tin shacks and squatters reside, clear buildings along waterways encroaching the water tables, and plant more trees and try to stabilise the land. Putting ridiculous pumps and gates against billions of litres of flood water is simply a waste of time and money.

These are all great ideas, but given the results of the recent ABAC poll on corruption, those responsible for such projects are already aware that they have a 2 to 1 mandate to go ahead and skim 30-40% of any budgets provided, so the projects are bound to be sub-standard.

[indyuk]

There is actually another major problem in all this flooding. Bangkok being built on a flood plain, mud & sediment base, through lack of town planning, have been continually building enormous structures compressing the underlying 'soft' support, thus sinking the land.

Water as an element finds its own level (science 101) and Bangkok is at sea level already and water cannot drain easily. Dredging depth in a canal does not make water run when the sea level is higher than the depth of the canal. Widening the water course may, providing the water in the canals has the ability to flow towards the sea.

I would bring back the Dutch water management experts, (after all Amsterdam is below sea level and they have that contained), set up dykes and do a bit more town planning before allowing the next high rise to be built. Reclaim the land where tin shacks and squatters reside, clear buildings along waterways encroaching the water tables, and plant more trees and try to stabilise the land. Putting ridiculous pumps and gates against billions of litres of flood water is simply a waste of time and money.

Up to a point this is a good article. Bangkok is above sea level although I admit is could be less that one meter above mean sea level. That is enough to build a water management system that works. Holland's flood prevention is largely about sea defenses, but in addition the management of flood water from Germany via the river Rijn and river Maas. The entirety of Holland (rather that the Netherlands which is the entirety of the country) being the coastal area of reclaimed land. The majority of the dry land in Holland is below sea level. The is because it is all reclaimed land. High power pumping systems and sluice gates are used to control water levels inside the dykes up several kilometers inland. Further Holland does get flooded during severe weather from the flood waters of Germany and the Netherlands. This is manageable because the sea is kept out. Bangkok is an entirely different problem although our expertise has been useful in Thailand in the past. The weight of the City of Bangkok is compressing the overburden of the original construction site of the city and is essentiall squeezing the overburden out from underneath all of the older buildings which would have been built on rafts made of wattle which likely was used to stabilize the quagmire at the construction site. The only perfect solution is demolish all of the old buildings and rebuild them on piles and to set entry levels as a new ground level. One needs to stop thinking flood prevention and to focus on water management. That means canals, sluices and powerful water pumps. Which Bangkok has a plenty. The problem is interference with existing water management systems by the Thai people. The Dams in the North are also a valuable water management system. However exploiting the value of the Dams in Water management does need co-ordination by a National center of Water Management. I would wager that if Bangkok canals were dredged regularly and that the pumps were maintained in accordance with the manufacturers instructions and the sluice checked every year for their integrity and that water management personnel had not overfilled the Dams in the north last year Bangkok would not have been flooded last year. All Thailand has to do is to replace obstructive personalities in the system with retrained in water management staff working to carefully drafted procedures Bangkok would not have flooded last year. Get National Water Management co-ordinated and functioning efficiently may be the only solution that is needed to prevent Bangkok from flooding during the current decade. For what it's worth I think that the actions the government are taking are appropriate at this time provided it introduces a National Water Management plan headed by the best of Thailand's hydraulic civil engineers. Edited September 9, 2012 by indyuk

[indyuk]

Meanwhile, the National Water Resources and Flood Policy Committee (NWRFPC) said its plan to install water-pushing machines and other flood-prevention devices in canals in eastern Bangkok had saved residential areas near Lat Phrao Canal from flooding on Thursday night.

We, the NWRFPC, saved the day. There was no flooding (to speak of).

Now on a more serious tone. Without full details, but having heart that Bangkok is a wee bit low-level, sinking and all that, wouldn't you say that rather than pushing water through Bangkok you should pump it out? Open the gates and water flows INTO bangkok suggest somehow that you need pumps to get it out again on a another side.

That is not the way the system has been designed. Options are limited.

[indyuk]

Thanks for the feedback guys (and the likes) but it still seems to me a lot of these reports are propagated by incompetent lying, incapable politicians with no answers or solutions,grandstanding themselves in the media.

I wish their Majesties would intervene, that wonderful input of structured common sense which no-one will dare go against. The grand Patriach did this for the Thai people way back and showed a water management systems to be followed and it was done at the time. I just wish he would grace the Thai's with his presence yet once again as he is certainly wise (humble) enough to seek outside counsel and draw the right conclusions then explain it to the Thai's where they will have to follow.

I also agree with the OP regarding the growth of Bangkok - it has been totally organic, lacks structure and is rife with corruption and payoffs to rubber stamp illegal projects. Corruption being the 'dis-ease' as well as disease of Thailand (Asia) is the heart of a lot of these problems. Wake up Thailand.

Thailand has an adequate flood management system. If you put Asian people in a position when it is necessary for them to lie they will. Thailands water management system needs strong, informed gentle souls to make it work.

[indyuk]

Don't worry, those South Korean pumps must be due to arrive soon, and save the Shinawatra government day !

I wish you could find something helpful to say Ricardo.

[indyuk]

What happened to the big tunnel idea?

Would you care to elaborate. i.e. Which big tunnel idea?

[indyuk]

... and that's just some hours of heavy rain. What will happen when it's heavy rain for 3 days or even 7 days? It WILL happen. Maybe not this year or next year but of course it will happen.

Doing it the easy way is one option. Doing the real hard work is another thing. Seems like they've just kinda pointed the water to the poorest, outside the cities.

I think that you're wrong. That's not the way I read it at all. When a good flood management system is in place you still have surface water temporarily when it rains heavily.

[whybother]

What happened to the big tunnel idea?

Would you care to elaborate. i.e. Which big tunnel idea?

Underground Tunnel Suggested As Solution To Bangkok's Flood Problems

http://www.thaivisa....flood-problems/

Edited September 9, 2012 by whybother

[whybother]

Thailand has an adequate flood management system. If you put Asian people in a position when it is necessary for them to lie they will. Thailands water management system needs strong, informed gentle souls to make it work.

Given the flooding that is already happening up north, I would suggest that their flood management is inadequate.

[Mosha]

"Floods In Bangkok After Thursday's Rain Raise Questions On Drainage". H'mm How many years has this occurred, and only now is it cause for concern?

[MaxLee]

Their governments' flood prevention system is the same as last year, just given other names of the so called Mega projects, that were just "for show", but in reality nothing has changed, only the names of several flood prevention control centers,

… we don't hear sh****t about FROC, but actually they are the exact same people only under another jargon abbrevial (National Water System Prevention - something) it doesn't matter, … it's gonna be another exciting 2-3 month period again… because the real deal hasn't even started yet. The real deal rain is yet to come upstream, as some do you have already mentioned…

[asiawatcher]

There is actually another major problem in all this flooding. Bangkok being built on a flood plain, mud & sediment base, through lack of town planning, have been continually building enormous structures compressing the underlying 'soft' support, thus sinking the land.

Water as an element finds its own level (science 101) and Bangkok is at sea level already and water cannot drain easily. Dredging depth in a canal does not make water run when the sea level is higher than the depth of the canal. Widening the water course may, providing the water in the canals has the ability to flow towards the sea.

I would bring back the Dutch water management experts, (after all Amsterdam is below sea level and they have that contained), set up dykes and do a bit more town planning before allowing the next high rise to be built. Reclaim the land where tin shacks and squatters reside, clear buildings along waterways encroaching the water tables, and plant more trees and try to stabilise the land. Putting ridiculous pumps and gates against billions of litres of flood water is simply a waste of time and money.

These are all great ideas, but given the results of the recent ABAC poll on corruption, those responsible for such projects are already aware that they have a 2 to 1 mandate to go ahead and skim 30-40% of any budgets provided, so the projects are bound to be sub-standard.

I hear recently with all the sudden disaster (mis)management it was 70% as no-one is checking and after doing the maths on the civil engineering numbers being quoted, it can still be done after that loading! It would only cost 30% of the quoted budgets! Trust the Thai's to find a way to scam even in a disaster. Have they no shame?

[Ricardo]

Don't worry, those South Korean pumps must be due to arrive soon, and save the Shinawatra government day !

I wish you could find something helpful to say Ricardo.

Sorry to upset you, that's not my intent.

My culture has a long (centuries-long) and proud history of poking-fun at the poo-yai politicians, to expose their inane or self-serving agendas and lies, this is one small way the 'little-guy' or 'Man on the Clapham omnibus' can fight back against them.

Because they can't take laughter or the cleansing light of publicity !

So I try to have fun myself, and highlight the ridiculous face-saving nonsense, whether it's by 'Caption Competitions' or quoting their more-OTT pronouncements, or simply refusing to forget the things they say. The order for South Korean pumps, in this case.

I laugh equally at the military doing frozen-chicken for aircraft barter-deals, or blimps that don't work, bomb-detectors that are are divining-rods but cost a fortune, high-speed railways that end short of the border & the line they're supposed to link-up with, a lower-cost sister-airline which offers all the same services of the parent-company, re-introducing a charge for hospital-treatment (previously free) and then making payment voluntary, the list goes on-and-on because this country offers a multitude of targets.

And to get back to the OP, the idea that Bangkok could ever become 'flood-free', let alone within a year through schemes which are largely vehicles-for-corruption, is a nonsense. What might be achievable, that co-ordination of government-resources & improvement of timeliness/accuracy of flood-warnings is possible, is the best which I believe can realistically be achieved.

In my own humble opinion.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Ricardo

[thaibeachlovers]

There is actually another major problem in all this flooding. Bangkok being built on a flood plain, mud & sediment base, through lack of town planning, have been continually building enormous structures compressing the underlying 'soft' support, thus sinking the land.

Water as an element finds its own level (science 101) and Bangkok is at sea level already and water cannot drain easily. Dredging depth in a canal does not make water run when the sea level is higher than the depth of the canal. Widening the water course may, providing the water in the canals has the ability to flow towards the sea.

I would bring back the Dutch water management experts, (after all Amsterdam is below sea level and they have that contained), set up dykes and do a bit more town planning before allowing the next high rise to be built. Reclaim the land where tin shacks and squatters, clear buildings along waterways encroaching the water tables, and plant more trees and try to stabilise the land. Putting ridiculous pumps and gates against billions of litres of flood water is simply a waste of time and money.

Town planning and Bangkok? I have a headache every time i look at the expressway pillars standing in water with a tin hut on stilts sitiing there.

Almost no town was built due to town planning, it happened organically over time. Problem with Bangkok is that it is built at the bottom of a river, and like most cities that get built at that location -- it is sinking. Before the city gets built in that location silt comes down and builds up replacing old land that was there - which sinks..... Now all that is left is a sinking feeling. The truth is no politician likes to tell people that they cannot solve the problem by next year, or the year after. It would be a decade long construction program that is required to protect Bangkok - a very expensive prospect. All politicians are going to play diversion games, and hope like heck that luck is on there side (and take credit for it if nothing happens).

The only realistic solution is to build a diversion canal large enough to take the entire river flow above "normal", and start it in the north, probably above Ayuhttaya, entirely bypassing Bkk. However, they would need to have started it last year. I'm not holding my breath!

[Bagwan]

I offer a suggestion that might appeal to some. Mobilise the entire Thai population into an 'I'm backing Thailand' campaign, issue every person with a paddle and direct them to suitable places on the banks of rivers, and then get them to paddle the naughty water away 24/7. Pay at 100 baht per day, free tee shirt and as much som tam as you can eat - but don't stop paddling.

Should be a winner - and Plodprasop can blame everybody for not working hard enough if this super scheme doesn't work.

Whatever J. Peasemould Gruntfuttock says, putting your finger in a dyke is fraught with danger.

Sorry, 48% of the population have enrolled in the "I'm back-stabbing Thailand" campaign and therefore unavailable to do anything in the national interest as they are too busy looking after their own.