Sala A Vowel

[mackes]

Anyone who can explain why the replacement for "sala a" ( ั instead of ะ) together

with second consonant is omitted in all teaching and dictionary I have seen so far.

[bytebuster]

Because these are two forms of the same vowel?

[DavidHouston]

Perhaps you have not yet found the right text.

If I understand your posting correctly, you are asking two separate questions. First, you are asking "why" Thai uses various formulations of the the short vowel /a/ in its writing system. Second, you are asking why the textbooks you have seen do not provide a presentation which will allow you to understand the distinctive ways in which Thai orthography represents these sounds.

None of us can speak to the second issue: we don't know what textbooks you have used. However, I can tell you that the most comprehensive and common Thai text does speak directly to this issue. The text to which I refer is "หลักภาษาไทย" [The Fundamentals of the Thai Language] by กำชัย ทองหล่อ [Kumchai Thonglaw], ISBN 974-246-635-1, 345 baht; this text has been in print for many years and it can be found in bookstores around the country. The question you are asking about is discussed on pages 148-150 in the chapter entitled, "การเขียนคำ" [Writing Thai Words]. If you are a new student of the language, you will need a Thai teacher to help you get through the minefield of rules, practices, and words.

Have patience and approach the language and its writing system with enthusiasm and humility. I wish you the best of luck in your studies.

[mackes]

How come that this thread looks completely different from yesterday when I got a reply with an reference to Thai-language.com and answered on that?

However, you can Google on "Thai vowels" where you got a lot of hits. The ones I checked did not mention a secondary sign for closed syllables.

[Richard W]

How come that this thread looks completely different from yesterday when I got a reply with an reference to Thai-language.com and answered on that?

I suggest you raise the matter with forum support. It need not be a technical glitch. Moderators have the ability to remove posts without trace, so there could have been a breach of the forum rules in the post that the moderator did not feel it was necessary to comment on.

[soundman]

How come that this thread looks completely different from yesterday when I got a reply with an reference to Thai-language.com and answered on that?

I suggest you raise the matter with forum support. It need not be a technical glitch. Moderators have the ability to remove posts without trace, so there could have been a breach of the forum rules in the post that the moderator did not feel it was necessary to comment on.

There have been no deletions, or edits in this topic from what I can see.

[mackes]

I'm one hundred pro cent sure that I got a reply with questions for clarification and I post a reply with example. That was followed by an answer with a link to http://thai-language.com/ref/vowels and I replied with a thanks.

The day after everything was gone and replaced with the current posts #2 and #3

[Richard W]

I'm one hundred pro cent sure that I got a reply with questions for clarification and I post a reply with example. That was followed by an answer with a link to http://thai-language.com/ref/vowels and I replied with a thanks.

That certainly rings a bell. On the other hand, there are probably quire a few references to that page on this forum. If it is a technical glitch, and not our memories playing tricks, I'm not surprised it's left no obvious trace.

As no-one has answered the question, I'll add some relevant observations. I opened a Thai Thai grammar I have to hand, and for the 12 pairs of short and long vowels it tabulated the open syllable character sequences, which is what one normally sees. I had to dive into the notes on the table (not referenced from the table itself) to find that some forms are changed in closed syllables - and I did not find a complete list of the changes. Also, it did not list the combination เอย, which is pronounced as เออ + ย. Unsurprisingly, there was no remark on the rare occurrence of เออ in closed syllables.

Similarly, you have to read a great deal before you discover that there are a few words in which ฑ serves as a mid consonant with the same sound value as ด, e.g. บัณฑิต(ย์).

[DavidHouston]

Kumchai, on pages 56-58 shows three variations of the short /a/ vowel in Thai or "สระอะ" :

1. คงรูป [full expression] or as it is technically called "ประวิสรรชนีย์" a) use in true Thai words such as กะบะ, กะทะ, มะระ; use in the final consonant of Sanskrit and Pali sourced words, such as, คณะ, อิสระ, อาสนะ; 3) used to clarify pronunciation in words adopted from other languages, such as, บะหมี่, ซากุระ, มะตาหะรี; 4) used in leading consonant clusters, such as, กระ, ประ, ตระ

2. ลดรูป [no written expression] or "ไม่ประวิสรรชนีย์" a) used to express reduced /a/ sound in non-conforming consonant clusters, such as, ขนม, ขยัน, ฝรั่ง, สมาน; special exceptions where a Thai word is composed of only one consonant with no following vowel, such as, ณ (pronounced "นะ") meaning "at", ธ (pronounced "ทะ") meaning "ท่าน"; c) certain alliterative words where the vowel is pronounced after a closed syllable such as สกปรก (โสะ-กะ-ปรก), จักจั่น (จัก-กะ-จั่น), สัปหงก (สับ-ปะ-หงก); d) words in which the vowel is pronounced lightly in the first syllable, such as, ขโมย, ชนวน (ชะ-นวน), สไบ; e) Sanskrit, Pali, and other source language words where the /a/ sound not in the last syllable, such as, คติ, จริยะ, อเมริกา

3. แปลรูป [altered expression] where ะ is expressed as ั [ไมัหันอากาส] or as a doubled ร: a) where the syllable has a leading and final consonant, such as, กัน, ขัง, รัก, คัม, นับ; 2) doubled letters of which only รร remains in current usage, such as กรรม, สรรพ, จรร, ธรรมดา, จรรยา

[mackes]

Thanks for all clarification

About removed posts, my error.