The Hotbutton Racism Thread

[GuestHouse]

For the purpose of this thread it clearly means race, ethnicity, national identity or color.

I'm thinking submaniac's national (and cultural) identity is American.

But he says he's Thai, so either he's a liar or you're slipping into your "omnipotent can see inside other people's heads persona".

Still waiting for you to tell us why you think attending a Thai school has anything to do with the subject under discussion.

[TommoPhysicist]

But he says he's Thai, so either he's a liar or you're slipping into your "omnipotent can see inside other people's heads persona".

Plenty of Americans who inherited Thai passports from mum (or more unusually dad) without ever setting foot in Thailand, until they were adults. Met a few, one memorable one at a Guesthouse in CM a few years back. More Thai than any Thai ...... apart from not having a clue ........ the locals treated him badly, but he could hang out as long as he paid for everything.

Edited September 15, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[GuestHouse]

But he says he's Thai, so either he's a liar or you're slipping into your "omnipotent can see inside other people's heads persona".

Plenty of Americans who inherited Thai passports from mum (or more unusually dad).

There you go again.

When faced with information which contradicts your point of view you choose not to question your point of view but to dream up unsubstantiated scenarios to support your preconceived view - an almost perfect example of bigoted thinking.

Still waiting for you to tell us why you think attending a Thai school has anything to do with the subject under discussion !

[TommoPhysicist]

Here's one of those threads the OP is complaining about

http://www.thaivisa....e-law-thailand/

written by Thais

Even ThaiBleather has written a Thai bashing 'poor education' post to it.

But is it racism, or just the sad reality of some things happening in Thailand.

And what about CMKs post about the army, was it racism or was it reality about the Thai army.

(not having any personal experience with the Thai army apart from walking on base to use my ThaiMilitaryBand card)

Edited September 15, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[GuestHouse]

Are you having a senior moment Tommo?

The OP has given us examples of racist remarks against Thais - we don't need more. What we want is for you to substantiate the statements you've yourself have made in this thread.

Still waiting for you to tell us why you think attending a Thai school has anything to do with the subject under discussion !!

[TommoPhysicist]

Are you having a senior moment Tommo?

Sorry, as you said, I've forgotten what we were talking about, move on.

Edited September 15, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[bina]

French are rude, Americans are loud mouth, Thai's are stupid, English are violent piss heads, Scots are cheap charlies, Kiwis are sheep sha66ers, Germans are obnoxious. If you belong to any of these nationalities, does it really upset you to hear it

-- should i feel slighted? )

and i have to say, many of the not too well educated working overseas thais i meet very frequently, inlcuding relatives of hubby (korat) are racist towards non koratians and racist towards their employers (israelis)... jews are stingy (could be in this case as it is an exploitation based work set up), we are like sheep (says they as they look at the orthodox jews in their black coats and 10 kids, in jerusalem); arabs steal everything (based on majority of incidents involving sheep and goats and farming equimpent being moved to 'over the green line' areas... dare i say more?

generalizations abound towards any race, ethinic group, sub ethnic group... (taxi driver asking me if my hubby's penis is really as small as asians are supposed to be...)by any race ethnic group or sub ethnic group are par for the course.

i have a sneaking suspician that racism/ethnocentricsm/xenophobia is more genetically improgrammed then we think; and only intensive higher education actually helps us override it, but not always, as i see here in my own lovely little beleagered country wrought with racism in all aspects (currently the sudanese illegal immigrants forcing themselves thru all borders, they have become the 'rapists' of the country.

in general i can make lots of generalizations about thais (the kind that are here, small village, lacking education, not planning ahead to much, warm hearted, sanook types) that i meet here. and i can gripe and complain about those very same traits. since those traits often cause me large headaches (try to plan a vacation in a month or so from today... schedules...)however, i am well aware that those are generalizations and not all thais are that way. same for any group. and believe me, i work in a hotel, i can generalize about lots of types: the kurdish jewish type, the morrocan type, the yiddishe perfectionist type, the ethiopian slow moving soft spoken types, the hongkongian male arrogant type, the nigerian christian tourist type (wont go in to details of hotel rooms next day) .. the list is endless. howver, in real life, have met many lovely people (as submaniac would say) that dont fall in to said categories...

i kind of think of racism as a friend of mine acts (washing the cup that anon drank from, again, cause maybe he has diseases. she is lacking in higher education, never been exposed to anyone not from her own little religious jewish town, and meant no harm. after meeting him several times, that little habit stopped.)and she is a big hearted woman. and meant no offense whatsoever....

so frankly, cant see where this thread will now lead...

bina

shana tova (happy new jewish new year to all and this is the time to turn inwards and search inner soul to see how you REALLY are, and not how u htink u are...)

[GuestHouse]

To remind you. (Tommo).

Having failed to address the OP's argument you have set about reinventing his biography for him, denying him the Thai nationality he claims and assigning to him that of the US with bolted on cultural identity.

Perhaps the idea that a Thai person can hold an opinion, construct an argument and challenge your own point of view does not sit well with your view of what a Thai person should be.

Edited September 15, 2012 by GuestHouse

[GuestHouse]

so frankly, cant see where this thread will now lead...

With a bit of luck to a better understanding of the level of bigotry spread across this forum and hopefully with a more proactive stand against it by those of us who find it unacceptable - Regardless of who is making the bigoted remarks and who they are directing them at.

[Rob8891]

I'm still having problems understanding how you can be racist against Thais, when Thai isn't a race.

Sort of a Chinese/Indian/Malay mix. With skin colouring varying from whiter than westerners to as black as an African.

What a crock of ~~~~. Trying to excuse xenophobia through semantics is a cheap shot, and totally transparent. The true point of the thread is the rampant disrespect for and prejudice against people of different origins (race / ethicity / language / culture / skin tone, use whatever criterion you want) that is expressed in TV. The feeble post you made does you no credit.

[GuestHouse]

I'm still having problems understanding how you can be racist against Thais, when Thai isn't a race.

Sort of a Chinese/Indian/Malay mix. With skin colouring varying from whiter than westerners to as black as an African.

What a crock of ~~~~. Trying to excuse xenophobia through semantics is a cheap shot, and totally transparent. The true point of the thread is the rampant disrespect for and prejudice against people of different origins (race / ethicity / language / culture / skin tone, use whatever criterion you want) that is expressed in TV. The feeble post you made does you no credit.

Absolutely spot on !

[StreetCowboy]

so frankly, cant see where this thread will now lead...

With a bit of luck to a better understanding of the level of bigotry spread across this forum and hopefully with a more proactive stand against it by those of us who find it unacceptable - Regardless of who is making the bigoted remarks and who they are directing them at.

I suppose part of the trouble is that so few of us. accept that we are prejudiced bigots.

It's only once we realise this that we can then identify and correct our behaviour.

Of course, it's much easier to ask others to correct their behaviour than to correct our own, though probably not as productive

SC

Edited September 15, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[phuturatica]

Nope... Still going no where.

[jacktrip]

one must assume people are talking about specific cases when they post. its hard to append everything with a 'this certain person' or some sort of disclaimer at the end of every post that exempts the cases that are not relevant to every discussion. that exceptions are always there is obvious to most people.

'the above post is my opinion and does not define reality for everyone, i am not responsible for misinterpretations of this post'

[Rob8891]

Spot on, StreetCowboy!

Someone once said "scratch below the skin of any anglo-saxon and you'll find a racist". It's probably true. I was married to a lovely black skinned lady from Guyana (sadly she died long ago).... I have two grown up kids by her. I now have a thai gf.... but all of that does not sometimes stop me from having racist / bigotted thoughts, I am ashamed to say.

However, the difference (I hope) between some of the posters such as TP myself is that I do not spout such thoughts openly, out of respect for other peoples' feelings. Yes, there are things about Thailand that drive me nuts, but I would like to think that I have the maturity and the humanity to discuss my dislikes in a calm way, when appropriate, and in such a manner that it does not cause offence to others. I do not always succeed, but sure as hell, I try hard!

[samran]

To remind you. (Tommo).

Having failed to address the OP's argument you have set about reinventing his biography for him, denying him the Thai nationality he claims and assigning to him that of the US with bolted on cultural identity.

Perhaps the idea that a Thai person can hold an opinion, construct an argument and challenge your own point of view does not sit well with your view of what a Thai person should be.

That is pretty clear. Let's hope he refrains from dishing out visa advice as well.

[2unique]

one must assume people are talking about specific cases when they post. its hard to append everything with a 'this certain person' or some sort of disclaimer at the end of every post that exempts the cases that are not relevant to every discussion. that exceptions are always there is obvious to most people.

'the above post is my opinion and does not define reality for everyone, i am not responsible for misinterpretations of this post'

Are you saying that the onus is on the reader to interpret the mindset of the writer? If I'd known that I would have been much lazier in my constructs.

Sent from Android, please excuse errors in type or judgement.

[chiangmaikelly]

Here's one of those threads the OP is complaining about

http://www.thaivisa....e-law-thailand/

written by Thais

Even ThaiBleather has written a Thai bashing 'poor education' post to it.

But is it racism, or just the sad reality of some things happening in Thailand.

And what about CMKs post about the army, was it racism or was it reality about the Thai army.

(not having any personal experience with the Thai army apart from walking on base to use my ThaiMilitaryBand card)

Take a look at the below posts and tell us if it a comment about the Army from an expert or an expat who does not have a clue?

Anybody that cares about their child would not let them be sent into the Thai army or airforce or anything else with its decrepit machinery all bought and maintained under less than ideal conditions when copy parts are bought to replace failing items at a tenth of the cost and then send Somchai off to test it.

You seem to have trouble distinguishing between a professionally run armed forces and the Thai one. Conscription into a professional organisation that offers all the modern day benefits of an education, career and future, against Dad's army trained by the 3 stooges littered with corruption. Up to you.

Edited September 15, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[2unique]

Spot on, StreetCowboy!

Someone once said "scratch below the skin of any anglo-saxon and you'll find a racist". It's probably true. I was married to a lovely black skinned lady from Guyana (sadly she died long ago).... I have two grown up kids by her. I now have a thai gf.... but all of that does not sometimes stop me from having racist / bigotted thoughts, I am ashamed to say.

However, the difference (I hope) between some of the posters such as TP myself is that I do not spout such thoughts openly, out of respect for other peoples' feelings. Yes, there are things about Thailand that drive me nuts, but I would like to think that I have the maturity and the humanity to discuss my dislikes in a calm way, when appropriate, and in such a manner that it does not cause offence to others. I do not always succeed, but sure as hell, I try hard!

You could be right especially when a large majority of those I see posting on forums (not just TV) respond to accusations of racism by saying, well they started it!

We're almost all racist and we almost all employ stereotypes at times against marriage, ethnicity etc but for the most part we know it's wrong and realize we're having a naughty chuckle. The OP is a point well raised, defending racism is crass, employing a sense of entitlement to cling to it is ignorant and I must admit I've found that it's normally these Anglo Saxons that think other races are being sensitive - which usually stems from them very rarely being subjected to out and out nasty vicious racial attacks.

Rightly or wrongly I find it very hard to take it seriously when "white" folk say they've been racially abused, I guess it's like a man saying he's been raped - I know it happens but...

Sent from Android, please excuse errors in type or judgement.

[Rob8891]

Here's one of those threads the OP is complaining about

http://www.thaivisa....e-law-thailand/

written by Thais

Even ThaiBleather has written a Thai bashing 'poor education' post to it.

But is it racism, or just the sad reality of some things happening in Thailand.

And what about CMKs post about the army, was it racism or was it reality about the Thai army.

(not having any personal experience with the Thai army apart from walking on base to use my ThaiMilitaryBand card)

Take a look at the below posts and tell us if it a comment about the Army from an expert or an expat who does not have a clue?

Anybody that cares about their child would not let them be sent into the Thai army or airforce or anything else with its decrepit machinery all bought and maintained under less than ideal conditions when copy parts are bought to replace failing items at a tenth of the cost and then send Somchai off to test it.

You seem to have trouble distinguishing between a professionally run armed forces and the Thai one. Conscription into a professional organisation that offers all the modern day benefits of an education, career and future, against Dad's army trained by the 3 stooges littered with corruption. Up to you.

It seems you are more concerned with your status of expat/expert than your choice of terminology, which was, I believe the reason why your post was quoted. Whether your post refers to reality (ie ineptitude in the army) or not, is not the crux of the matter, nor is your personal/professional status.

Yet another case of avoidance tactics?

[chiangmaikelly]

Here's one of those threads the OP is complaining about

http://www.thaivisa....e-law-thailand/

written by Thais

Even ThaiBleather has written a Thai bashing 'poor education' post to it.

But is it racism, or just the sad reality of some things happening in Thailand.

And what about CMKs post about the army, was it racism or was it reality about the Thai army.

(not having any personal experience with the Thai army apart from walking on base to use my ThaiMilitaryBand card)

Take a look at the below posts and tell us if it a comment about the Army from an expert or an expat who does not have a clue?

Anybody that cares about their child would not let them be sent into the Thai army or airforce or anything else with its decrepit machinery all bought and maintained under less than ideal conditions when copy parts are bought to replace failing items at a tenth of the cost and then send Somchai off to test it.

You seem to have trouble distinguishing between a professionally run armed forces and the Thai one. Conscription into a professional organisation that offers all the modern day benefits of an education, career and future, against Dad's army trained by the 3 stooges littered with corruption. Up to you.

It seems you are more concerned with your status of expat/expert than your choice of terminology, which was, I believe the reason why your post was quoted. Whether your post refers to reality (ie ineptitude in the army) or not, is not the crux of the matter, nor is your personal/professional status.

Yet another case of avoidance tactics?

What is the crux? You can change the status. It is just an exercise.

[Rob8891]

Here's one of those threads the OP is complaining about

http://www.thaivisa....e-law-thailand/

written by Thais

Even ThaiBleather has written a Thai bashing 'poor education' post to it.

But is it racism, or just the sad reality of some things happening in Thailand.

And what about CMKs post about the army, was it racism or was it reality about the Thai army.

(not having any personal experience with the Thai army apart from walking on base to use my ThaiMilitaryBand card)

Take a look at the below posts and tell us if it a comment about the Army from an expert or an expat who does not have a clue?

Anybody that cares about their child would not let them be sent into the Thai army or airforce or anything else with its decrepit machinery all bought and maintained under less than ideal conditions when copy parts are bought to replace failing items at a tenth of the cost and then send Somchai off to test it.

You seem to have trouble distinguishing between a professionally run armed forces and the Thai one. Conscription into a professional organisation that offers all the modern day benefits of an education, career and future, against Dad's army trained by the 3 stooges littered with corruption. Up to you.

It seems you are more concerned with your status of expat/expert than your choice of terminology, which was, I believe the reason why your post was quoted. Whether your post refers to reality (ie ineptitude in the army) or not, is not the crux of the matter, nor is your personal/professional status.

Yet another case of avoidance tactics?

What is the crux? You can change the status. It is just an exercise.

Yup. Avoidance. Just the same as Tommophysicist when challenged by GH.

[samran]

Spot on, StreetCowboy!

Someone once said "scratch below the skin of any anglo-saxon and you'll find a racist". It's probably true. I was married to a lovely black skinned lady from Guyana (sadly she died long ago).... I have two grown up kids by her. I now have a thai gf.... but all of that does not sometimes stop me from having racist / bigotted thoughts, I am ashamed to say.

However, the difference (I hope) between some of the posters such as TP myself is that I do not spout such thoughts openly, out of respect for other peoples' feelings. Yes, there are things about Thailand that drive me nuts, but I would like to think that I have the maturity and the humanity to discuss my dislikes in a calm way, when appropriate, and in such a manner that it does not cause offence to others. I do not always succeed, but sure as hell, I try hard!

You could be right especially when a large majority of those I see posting on forums (not just TV) respond to accusations of racism by saying, well they started it!

We're almost all racist and we almost all employ stereotypes at times against marriage, ethnicity etc but for the most part we know it's wrong and realize we're having a naughty chuckle. The OP is a point well raised, defending racism is crass, employing a sense of entitlement to cling to it is ignorant and I must admit I've found that it's normally these Anglo Saxons that think other races are being sensitive - which usually stems from them very rarely being subjected to out and out nasty vicious racial attacks.

Rightly or wrongly I find it very hard to take it seriously when "white" folk say they've been racially abused, I guess it's like a man saying he's been raped - I know it happens but...

Sent from Android, please excuse errors in type or judgement.

The usual suspects who also spout how they are minorities in their home country and the femmonazi's have taken over, so they've come to Thailand to escape the oppressive PC environment keeping them down.... Only to complain about the folk who provide them with that environment. The only place they are happy is in their own misery.

[cdnvic]

A few points:

1 Submaniac is Thai. Accept it.

2 Saying Thais aren't a race is splitting hairs and is just trolling.

[manarak]

A few points:

1 Submaniac is Thai. Accept it.

It still would be interesting to know if submaniac is of Thai culture or not.

A passport doesn't make a person member of a cultural community.

Get a Thai passport and see if it stops Thais call you farang.

[cdnvic]

A few points:

1 Submaniac is Thai. Accept it.

It still would be interesting to know if submaniac is of Thai culture or not.

A passport doesn't make a person member of a cultural community.

Get a Thai passport and see if it stops Thais call you farang.

I was serious about the above and don't appreciate your unwarranted accusations against another member in response. Take a little enforced time out to reflect. We're getting really tired of people who feel free to insult and make accusations against other members here.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

IIf you are born in a particular country, then that is an issue of fact.

If you are raised in a particular country, then that is also an issue of fact.

Your parentage is also an issue of fact.

Your culture is a matter of your opinion and the opinion of others.

[chiangmaikelly]

Take a look at the below posts and tell us if it a comment about the Army from an expert or an expat who does not have a clue?

Anybody that cares about their child would not let them be sent into the Thai army or airforce or anything else with its decrepit machinery all bought and maintained under less than ideal conditions when copy parts are bought to replace failing items at a tenth of the cost and then send Somchai off to test it.

You seem to have trouble distinguishing between a professionally run armed forces and the Thai one. Conscription into a professional organisation that offers all the modern day benefits of an education, career and future, against Dad's army trained by the 3 stooges littered with corruption. Up to you.

It seems you are more concerned with your status of expat/expert than your choice of terminology, which was, I believe the reason why your post was quoted. Whether your post refers to reality (ie ineptitude in the army) or not, is not the crux of the matter, nor is your personal/professional status.

Yet another case of avoidance tactics?

What is the crux? You can change the status. It is just an exercise.

Yup. Avoidance. Just the same as Tommophysicist when challenged by GH.

Sorry but I am only trying to understand what you are talking about. If you have been reading my posts you will know I agree with the OP. But I really don't know what your point is? What is the crux? The crux of what? I would be more than happy to answer your question but I don't know what it is.

[Rob8891]

@ CMK

I just PM'd you......

[MJP]

@Samran. #264

I think that sums it up perfectly. For others it's a long mental journey of discovery that everyone's pretty much the same. This can take a while.