Burmese Whispers: A Paranoid Response From Idle Older Expats

[fruittbatt]

Who is spreading a vicious myth around the expat community in Chiang Mai regarding people from Burma who reside in Northern Thailand and who brought it to the fruittbatt`s attention? Who’s making the allegations and how does this tale relate to the batt as she describes?

Why did the fruittbatt let her maid go when she was only away for less then two months and not keep the job open for the maid on return from the trip, even if the maid was not paid during the fruitbatts absence, if she was such an excellent worker and impeccably honest as the fruitbatt claims?

Over to you, fruittbatt.

With respect, the issue here is not to question my motives. I have already explained that my maid is in great demand among the farang community, In fact, she has more work offered to her than she has hours to do it! I am often absent from Thailand and have a fairly small place that is easy for my husband, daughter, and self to clean without help. Does that satisfy your curiosity?

[iainiain101]

Who is spreading a vicious myth around the expat community in Chiang Mai regarding people from Burma who reside in Northern Thailand and who brought it to the fruittbatt`s attention? Who’s making the allegations and how does this tale relate to the batt as she describes?

Why did the fruittbatt let her maid go when she was only away for less then two months and not keep the job open for the maid on return from the trip, even if the maid was not paid during the fruitbatts absence, if she was such an excellent worker and impeccably honest as the fruitbatt claims?

Over to you, fruittbatt.

With respect, the issue here is not to question my motives. I have already explained that my maid is in great demand among the farang community, In fact, she has more work offered to her than she has hours to do it! I am often absent from Thailand and have a fairly small place that is easy for my husband, daughter, and self to clean without help. Does that satisfy your curiosity?

So who was it that asked if you had dismissed your maid for "bad reasons"?

[fruittbatt]

I have met both Mr. & Mrs. Fruitbatt and can assure they are not the type of people who would take the time to troll. They have become aware of something they feel to be a real instance/occurance/cause and have expressed an opinion. Everyone does have the right to accept or reject this view.

But Fruitbatt, let me suggest that when you experience a feeling like this, and feel the need to make a post on TV about it, please check that it is not a slow posting week end.

I sincerely feel should JC himself , walk down Thaepae Road, we have those who would start a debate about Him walking on the wrong side of the street, or going to the wrong gate.

I will say, as per my feelings gained from 25 years here, that I do find the Burmese/Shan people to be much harder working people than the local Thai. Having said that, I attribute that to their circumstance. They are displaced and trying to make a niche for themselves in a different world/place. The locals, are, well, locals and already have their place, thus do not have to struggle with the difficulties faced by the Burmese. I would also agree with the poster who said something to the effect that if there is such a rumor afoot, he has heard much more complaining from the Thai, than the farang , re the Burmese.

OMHO

G

Many thanks for your kind words, Gonzo, I completely agree with your analysis of why displaced Shan/Lisu/other Burmese often work harder.

Yes, some Thais (including teachers) do indulge in racist talk about Burmese, but I was surprised and disgusted that a number of farangs had regurgitated the same attitudes. When they started to claim "evidence" for their prejudices by slandering my former maid, I knew I had to speak up to try to dispel this nonsense before it went any further.

[Paagai]

The OP's statment: "Burmese" (by which they mean people from Burma regardless of their ethnicity) and the use of the term "Burmese" throughout this thread shows a complete non-understanding of the issues. The Burmese are about as far from being a homogeneous ethnic group as can be imagined and making sweeping generalisations about such a group that ignore the issue of "ethnicity" is utter nonsense.

Yes, maybe a few opportunistic Burmans have headed back to Rangoon, but the vast majority of displaced people in Northern Thailand are from Shan, Kachin and Karen State and are unlikely to be going anywhere anytime soon. Whilst Suu Kyi takes her smile to Washington and Thein Sein makes placatory remarks in Naypyidaw the AK47s are still rattling away in the Northern Shan and Kachin states despite the so called ceasefires. And the deluge of drugs flooding into Thailand continues un-abated too, which says a lot about the state of society north of the border.

Among my Shan friends, many now have passports and have made the trip home. They've all come back with one message and it's not pretty.

In my view Burma's real problems have yet to begin, the task of reconciling the countries ethnic minorities who basically hate each other is not going to be easy and the only realistic solution will be some form of separation. Things may well get much worse before they get better; take Yugoslavia as an example from recent history.

Ironically, there is a shred of truth in the OPs allegation. There is plenty of stealing going on in Chiang Mai who's proceeds finish up in Burma. But. the perpetrators are Thai youth as well as aliens and they are all doing it to feed their yaabaa and gambling habits.

[fruittbatt]

The OP's statment: "Burmese" (by which they mean people from Burma regardless of their ethnicity) and the use of the term "Burmese" throughout this thread shows a complete non-understanding of the issues. The Burmese are about as far from being a homogeneous ethnic group as can be imagined and making sweeping generalisations about such a group that ignore the issue of "ethnicity" is utter nonsense.

Yes, maybe a few opportunistic Burmans have headed back to Rangoon, but the vast majority of displaced people in Northern Thailand are from Shan, Kachin and Karen State and are unlikely to be going anywhere anytime soon. Whilst Suu Kyi takes her smile to Washington and Thein Sein makes placatory remarks in Naypyidaw the AK47s are still rattling away in the Northern Shan and Kachin states despite the so called ceasefires. And the deluge of drugs flooding into Thailand continues un-abated too, which says a lot about the state of society north of the border.

Among my Shan friends, many now have passports and have made the trip home. They've all come back with one message and it's not pretty.

In my view Burma's real problems have yet to begin, the task of reconciling the countries ethnic minorities who basically hate each other is not going to be easy and the only realistic solution will be some form of separation. Things may well get much worse before they get better; take Yugoslavia as an example from recent history.

Ironically, there is a shred of truth in the OPs allegation. There is plenty of stealing going on in Chiang Mai who's proceeds finish up in Burma. But. the perpetrators are Thai youth as well as aliens and they are all doing it to feed their yaabaa and gambling habits.

I was interested to read your thoughts on the future of Burma but evidently you did not pick up the fact that my use of quotation marks around "Burmese" indicates irony. I am acutely aware of the significance of ethnic difference among peoples of Burma. A quick glance at the news re the plight of Kachins and Rohinga (?sp) is enough to highlight the real tensions and differences that exist.

[ThaiPauly]

We have a Burmese maid as do several other people on our Moo Baan.

Never heard of anyone having any problems with them

[moe666]

When you heard these vile rumors at a dinner party did you call the fool on his racist speech or did you sit there and nod your head. Calling people out in public is how you stop such stupidity not posting on some forum were the people here didn't hear it and most really do not care or associate with such foolish people

Edited September 17, 2012 by moe666

[TwoDogz]

How to find a burmese couple willing to work a small farm ?

[fruittbatt]

When you heard these vile rumors at a dinner party did you call the fool on his racist speech or did you sit there and nod your head. Calling people out in public is how you stop such stupidity not posting on some forum were the people here didn't hear it and most really do not care or associate with such foolish people

You are assuming I attended this dinner. I didn't. In fact it is a men's only (not gay...and no, I am not homophobic) group where this speeech was made. I was informed by one of the persons who attended. Had I been there I would have dealt within that context.

[ITGabs]

I know that there have two bad news about Burmese people,my gf and me were reading that in a newspaper and we comment about that, I remember one was a Burmese waitress girl that help an old thai lady for many years, the old lady was found killed and the Thai police found guilty the Burmese waitress, she told me that time ago this happend a lot and the people don't trust anymore in Burmese, farmers or business man time ago try to find people from Laos or Myanmar to do the hand work at cheap rates, since many people try to find better live conditions from this two countries, plus people called "garlian" (sound like that in Thai, probably Karen), are killed by the Burmese armed groups or government, so they usually can move to Thailand illegal and work for low rates, I know that Karen and Mon are protected by thai government at the same that other groups of people from the mountains in the north. so probably is a mix between racist and true old histories

[tinfoilhat]

When you heard these vile rumors at a dinner party did you call the fool on his racist speech or did you sit there and nod your head. Calling people out in public is how you stop such stupidity not posting on some forum were the people here didn't hear it and most really do not care or associate with such foolish people

You are assuming I attended this dinner. I didn't. In fact it is a men's only (not gay...and no, I am not homophobic) group where this speeech was made. I was informed by one of the persons who attended. Had I been there I would have dealt within that context.

ah, hearsay.

[chiang mai]

One person said something to the OP and that constitues older farangs in the North spreading false rumours? The OP needs to get out more.

[fruittbatt]

When you heard these vile rumors at a dinner party did you call the fool on his racist speech or did you sit there and nod your head. Calling people out in public is how you stop such stupidity not posting on some forum were the people here didn't hear it and most really do not care or associate with such foolish people

You are assuming I attended this dinner. I didn't. In fact it is a men's only (not gay...and no, I am not homophobic) group where this speeech was made. I was informed by one of the persons who attended. Had I been there I would have dealt within that context.

ah, hearsay.

no, information from a reliable first-hand source. Flaming rather than addressing the issues raised is really punching below the belt, don't you think? Edited September 17, 2012 by fruittbatt

[ITGabs]

How to find a burmese couple willing to work a small farm ?

We did that with my gf for the family of she when we travel, I know that there have some strange agency, but really looks more like mafia stuff (sorry xD) you can go directly to Mae Sot to the market in the border, and ask to the people working there where you can find people for work in a farm, we left our number and people interested called the same day, we did the same in Laos, one important thing is that in Laos many people can speak thai in the towns close to the border, but in Myanmar not at all, so the best points are markets in Thailand. We found pretty girls to work in a karaoke bar too

[fruittbatt]

One person said something to the OP and that constitues older farangs in the North spreading false rumours? The OP needs to get out more.

No. Wrong. One person gave me this first-hand information but the slandering of my maid came from several older farangs. Only one of these people had the courage to ask me whether these allegations were true, so I was able to put them straight. Unfortunately other people (the ones who actually DO need to get out more) have now spread this crap before it could be contained.

[Beetlejuice]

Much Ado About Nothing.

I hear different things from people all the time and most of it goes in one ear and out the other.

Life is too short and there are worst troubles at sea.

In my whole almost 30 years of living in Thailand, I have never heard of or met any farangs that are racist against the Burmese.

My advice to the OP is, either ignore these people, ignore idle gossip or mix with better company.

[Rob5060]

Great advice Beetlejuice always avoid that type of company

[ianf]

We have not been able to find another Burmese aid. We had a wonderful girl but she was able to travel back home to Burma. Where can we find another Burmese maid?

[Loaded]

Only idiots are influenced by idiots making idiotic statements. I think the OP can stop worrying that the farang community will rise up against those dam evil Burmans.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Loaded

[chuang]

slightly offline from the general point, the op was planning an extended holiday, so he released his maid for a couple of months to save costs, does that make any sense, if your cutting costs you don't go on a extended holiday and you don't have a maid.

[uptheos]

Only idiots are influenced by idiots making idiotic statements. I think the OP can stop worrying that the farang community will rise up against those dam evil Burmans.

[colinneil]

Post is a load of bo...cks

[Tywais]

Inflammatory post removed.

[catmac]

I feel that the OP may have received a better response if she hadn't used her post to slag off us "older, retired" expats.

Now that we have more information as to the origin of this rumour, I can only say that I would be inclined to disregard anything spouted off in one of those decidedly kinky "men only" gatherings! The "men only" is the danger sign, not the age of them!

[chiang mai]

I feel that the OP may have received a better response if she hadn't used her post to slag off us "older, retired" expats.

Now that we have more information as to the origin of this rumour, I can only say that I would be inclined to disregard anything spouted off in one of those decidedly kinky "men only" gatherings! The "men only" is the danger sign, not the age of them!

What do you mean "us", you speak for yourself.

[Chicog]

I'm willing to bet someone has been cleaned out, but to tar every Burmese person with the same brush is definitely a village gossip trait.

[NancyL]

Why did the fruittbatt let her maid go when she was only away for less then two months and not keep the job open for the maid on return from the trip, even if the maid was not paid during the fruitbatts absence, if she was such an excellent worker and impeccably honest as the fruitbatt claims?

Over to you, fruittbatt.

I think this was the key reason the guys were talking. The reasons given for terminating such a valuable employee were vague or unknown to the group. Most others would have paid the woman for the time they were gone, asking her to check in on their unit from time-to-time for water damage since the building in question is well-known to have leaking windows. I believe, too, that another employer had recently terminated their relationship with this woman also -- again for unknown reasons. Also, we know of expats who have had other trusted Burmese employees steal from them once they've decided it's time to return to Burma.

One can hardly fault the man who came to you, Fruittbatt, because he was considering employing this woman. Perhaps you should have written a character reference for her before you fired her.

[fruittbatt]

Why did the fruittbatt let her maid go when she was only away for less then two months and not keep the job open for the maid on return from the trip, even if the maid was not paid during the fruitbatts absence, if she was such an excellent worker and impeccably honest as the fruitbatt claims?

Over to you, fruittbatt.

I think this was the key reason the guys were talking. The reasons given for terminating such a valuable employee were vague or unknown to the group. Most others would have paid the woman for the time they were gone, asking her to check in on their unit from time-to-time for water damage since the building in question is well-known to have leaking windows. I believe, too, that another employer had recently terminated their relationship with this woman also -- again for unknown reasons. Also, we know of expats who have had other trusted Burmese employees steal from them once they've decided it's time to return to Burma.

One can hardly fault the man who came to you, Fruittbatt, because he was considering employing this woman. Perhaps you should have written a character reference for her before you fired her.

Nancy: let me clarify a few points.

Number one:

I have already stated my reasons for deciding to let the maid go to others who were positively clamoring to employ her because of her sterling reputation. I did not fire the maid at all but explained that because we were likely to be absent for long periods in the next six months, she might as well take up the offers of permanent work which she had received. One of my friends was actually wanting to employ the maid for an extra day each week, so I knew she would not miss out on work.

Number two:

It is absolutely no one else's business whether I employ someone to clean my place or not, so the speculation which followed my decision was - quite simply - idle gossip. In this regard, I had already informed two people - one of whom is a man in the dining group - that I had decided to do my own housework DESPITE my maid's excellent work. So, relevant people already KNEW that this girl had done nothing wrong.

Why, then, the malicious suggestions about an innocent person? I can only put this down to the existence of unfounded rumours about workers from Burma.

Number three: just because there are unsound rumors circulating it is totally unjustified and downright racist to stereotype "all" Burmese workers as potential thieves. Why not make an effort to find out the facts before shooting one's mouth off?

Number Four: the gentleman who actually had the guts to ask whether the rumour was true is hardly likely to have employed my maid as he has sold his condo and is repatriating....as you well know.

[tinfoilhat]

When you heard these vile rumors at a dinner party did you call the fool on his racist speech or did you sit there and nod your head. Calling people out in public is how you stop such stupidity not posting on some forum were the people here didn't hear it and most really do not care or associate with such foolish people

You are assuming I attended this dinner. I didn't. In fact it is a men's only (not gay...and no, I am not homophobic) group where this speeech was made. I was informed by one of the persons who attended. Had I been there I would have dealt within that context.

ah, hearsay.

no, information from a reliable first-hand source. Flaming rather than addressing the issues raised is really punching below the belt, don't you think?

it was a simple remark offered in jest, hardly flaming

if you would read on you would see that i am actually in agreement with you, such rumors are rather unpleasant and unnecessary, and are generally perpetuated by miserable gits.

However that does not change the fact that second hand "information from a reliable first-hand source" is hearsay, and perhaps addressing the source would prove much more effective if you wish to make a difference.

[NancyL]

I don't think the gentlemen involved were slandering all members of a specific ethnic group. One of the gentleman was simply concerned about a specific maid because he was considering hiring her. Nor should these men be characterized as "a bunch of idle, comparatively rich, fearful farang spreading slander against this marginalised, disadvantaged group." as was done in the frentic, over-the-top OP. It's no wonder so many people thought it a troll post, because it was such an over-reaction to someone asking a reasonable question about a potential employee.

These men are hardly fearful and I doubt most would characterize themselves are rich and idle. Talk about slandering one specific group!

And don't get me going on using the "F-word" to describe these poor guys. In my mind it's like black people using the "N-word" to describe themselves.

(There it is -- I'm taking on the cause of old, white guys who are subject to repeated attacks on their character, hobbies and topics of discussion. We all have a favorite cause, don't we?)