Poor Results At Half All Primary Schools: O-Net

[webfact]

EDUCATION

Poor results at half all primary schools

SUPINDA NA MAHACHAI

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- Well over half of the 28,000 schools nationwide failed to achieve the average score in every subject of the O-Net (Ordinary National Educational Test) for Prathom 6 (Grade 6), according the Office of the Basic Education Commission (Obec).

Students at 28,290 schools took the test. Scores at 16,294 schools were lower than the overall average of 49.36, while the remaining 11,995 schools reached average or higher-than-average scores, Obec secretary general Chinnapat Bhumirat said yesterday.

More than half of the schools - 18,681 - failed to pass the average English test score of 38.37. Only 9,609 schools posted higher-than-average scores for English.

For maths, 15,448 schools failed to reach the average score of 52.40. The science test average was 40.82, but 17,076 schools failed to achieve it. Average scores for Thai language were 50.04, and 16,290 schools fell below that mark, Chinnapat said.

For social science, 16,432 schools fell below the average of 52.22. In health and physical education, 14,780 schools scored lower than the 58.87 average. In art, 16,169 schools dropped below the 46.75 average, while technology saw 15,478 schools register a score below the 55.38 average, he said.

Chinnapat said an analysis of the scores gave useful information for budget management and teacher development. It would enable Obec to tailor its budgets to suit each school and educational area office. The 10 offices with the lowest O-Net scores will have to create plans to improve student performance, while those with the highest scores, including top-scoring Kalasin Primary Educational Service Area Office 1, will reveal how they improved students' results.

At an end-of-month meeting Obec will propose changes to criteria for judging teachers. Teachers at schools with average O-Net scores higher than 70 percentile will be judged on their students' performance and no longer be required to present extensive evidence of classroom work. Obec will have them train other teachers, Chinnapat said.

-- The Nation 2012-09-19

[masuk]

Do all Thai school teachers requite a degree, as farangs must?

Have all Thai teachers qualified in Education, as most western countries require?

Should the students be blamed for the poor results, or the teaching methods?

I am curious to know how the general knowledge of the average Thai student compares with say, The Philippines, where English is started before they start school.

[KireB]

The take the average as a passing variable? When you do that, no matter where and no matter how good your students are, there will always be a large group that will fail a test. That's how averages work. Some above, some below! If you have 20.000 geniuses in your population, it's nearly impossible to pass when you are just very intelligent!

[CWMcMurray]

Also wonder if the questions have improved?

In previous years, many of the questions were completely ridiculous and included many opinion questions will multiple correct answers, but the official correct answer ring the opinion of the person writing the test

New meaning to "multiple guess"

[Thaddeus]

http://www.purplemath.com/modules/meanmode.htm

[Dr Robert]

so just what do these tests measure? how many "successful" schools coached to the testing? just what do these figures indicate if you dont have a context ( ie what is the trend, up or down and over what period of time?) what is the reliability of the testing? what is the internal validity of the testing? (ie is it reliably testing what it sets out to test and does it test what it thinks it tests?) How does the testing compare to other similar populations? So many questions with so little information makes the reliability of the report very questionable, dont you think?

[SNGLIFE]

This is crazy. So, if a school does "better than average", then that is success??? The averages are ALL FAILING averages, for cryin' out loud! Where's the outrage?!?

A link to a listing of schools' performance by province would be appreciated, if results have been published online. I'm interested to know which schools scored above 70. It mentions Kalasin, but not the score.

Edited September 19, 2012 by SNGLIFE

[Scott]

The gov't can do all kinds of things to improve education, but I seldom see anyone attack the very basic problem of excessive noise in schools. Thailand is a warm country, so open classrooms are relatively important, but the noise that emanates from everywhere in the school makes learning difficult. Teachers and Admin often have megaphones just to be heard over the din.

I am actually quite surprised students learn anything.

[sirchai]

So many kids at my school in Prathom 6 can't read, or let's say can hardly read.Only those who can afford to pay for extra lessons are okay.

But some of our oldest are also very bad in their own language, pretty much late to learn Thai in grade six, I'd say.

I've received some newer stuff, which I should use for the kids, but i don't Better creating some stuff that makes sense, but what will happen if they get such crappy test questions?

We had a speech competition at our school a few weeks ago, three M.3 students doing a speech showed up. I was asking them how many topics they would have, but they didn't understand me. A Thai teacher was helping them ,as i wasn't in the mood to speak Thai to the "best" students who were allowed to attend.

Same problem with all the kids, none of them did even know what they were talking about in their speeches.The only ones who spoke English were the foreigners anyhow involved, being a teacher, or father.

No communication in English between Thai judges and foreign judges, if so then in Thai. The daily: " Good morning teacher." How are you? turns out that many don't even know if they say, "I'm fine thank you and you?".............

Many students in grade six can't spell their name in English, they have to copy it from another book/sheet to a let's say worksheet. How can you answer questions in any languages, if you can't read?

When asking for their number, many just say it in Thai. And they don't know how to say it in English, after having six years English lessons.

The big question is who's to blame? Of course, it's the foreigners' fault if they fail, because they can't lose face.

It's my third school, worked at a primary and a high school before. The same problem at the high school, many of them coudln't read, or understand a simple question like "How old are you?" in M.six! We had to make an "Immersion English camp", that they'd passed.

When you take a look at the "superficial" tests coming somewhere from Bangkok, you'll see that some questions/answers are ridiculous. Takes a lot of imagination being good at English to find something that would make sense.

The joke is that most Thai English teachers wouldn't pass an M.6 O-Net test, or even a P.6 assignment for students.They always need an "answer key."

To understand the whole problem, please take a look at the "First Lady" She's a kind of reflecting the whole system. How much does she know about other countries, or languages?

How much do people know about education, working at the MoE?

I love all the kids like my own, nobody can blame them. It's the Thai society that seems to have a problem, our son in M.2 now is in the same situation. His English teacher is asking him, if he doesn't get something in English.

The rich kids will get a good paid job, doesn't matter how uneducated they are.

But I guess also at Wall Street are not the best educated guys, only the richest.. ----

.

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Edited September 19, 2012 by sirchai

[EarthAlien]

This is a disgrace.

The results show that the majority of schools can't even muster a 50% average.

No such thing as a bad student,.. only bad teachers,.. and/or the deplorable and archaic system of "education" that fails them.

Thailand,... to late to avoid being the lauging stock of ASEAN in 2015!

Som Nam Na!

[djlest]

I actually believe the above results are an exaggeration - its more like 90% below average - and who defines average in a country where if its not (Sanook) its not worth doing.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Do all Thai school teachers requite a degree, as farangs must?

Have all Thai teachers qualified in Education, as most western countries require?

Should the students be blamed for the poor results, or the teaching methods?

I am curious to know how the general knowledge of the average Thai student compares with say, The Philippines, where English is started before they start school.

Yes, yes, primarily the teaching methods and very poorly

[timewilltell]

I am a little bemused here.

First off, hats off to Sirchai who seems to sum things up pretty well. Thai schools show the worst of what is wrong with the Thai culture of keeping everyone happy, well especially the rich people, regardless of the merits of the situation. The ignorance surrounding the whole Education issue is overwhelming - nearly everyone is looking at second hand shadows never mind the real thing - philosophers may relate!

As for those posters being amazed at the fact that many schools fail to meet the average score - well umm - that is the way averages work - add up all the scores and divide by the number of scores submitted to get an average - you will get many above and many below - you would need to normalise the results to get something more meaningful to talk about. However the real problem is that I am pretty sure that Thais generally don't understand how bad their education is compared to the countries they should be trying to emulate. Having said that it is a source of sadness that even the so called better education systems of the evil West are sadly woefully lacking - and by those standards I am not sure my comments about the Thai education system wouldn't land me in a defamation suit - another source of evil hampering this country - the legal system!

Oh well at least it is sunny and the girls smile.

[SlyAnimal]

hmm...... is it a very bad translation of the English word "Average", which then fits almost perfectly into the context of the rest of the article.....

Or did someone miss their morning coffee before writing this article lol.

Edited September 19, 2012 by SlyAnimal

[Thaddeus]

So many kids at my school in Prathom 6 can't read, or let's say can hardly read.Only those who can afford to pay for extra lessons are okay.

But some of our oldest are also very bad in their own language, pretty much late to learn Thai in grade six, I'd say.

I've received some newer stuff, which I should use for the kids, but i don't Better creating some stuff that makes sense, but what will happen if they get such crappy test questions?

We had a speech competition at our school a few weeks ago, three M.3 students doing a speech showed up. I was asking them how many topics they would have, but they didn't understand me. A Thai teacher was helping them ,as i wasn't in the mood to speak Thai to the "best" students who were allowed to attend.

Same problem with all the kids, none of them did even know what they were talking about in their speeches.The only ones who spoke English were the foreigners anyhow involved, being a teacher, or father.

No communication in English between Thai judges and foreign judges, if so then in Thai. The daily: " Good morning teacher." How are you? turns out that many don't even know if they say, "I'm fine thank you and you?".............

Many students in grade six can't spell their name in English, they have to copy it from another book/sheet to a let's say worksheet. How can you answer questions in any languages, if you can't read?

When asking for their number, many just say it in Thai. And they don't know how to say it in English, after having six years English lessons.

The big question is who's to blame? Of course, it's the foreigners' fault if they fail, because they can't lose face.

It's my third school, worked at a primary and a high school before. The same problem at the high school, many of them coudln't read, or understand a simple question like "How old are you?" in M.six! We had to make an "Immersion English camp", that they'd passed.

When you take a look at the "superficial" tests coming somewhere from Bangkok, you'll see that some questions/answers are ridiculous. Takes a lot of imagination being good at English to find something that would make sense.

The joke is that most Thai English teachers wouldn't pass an M.6 O-Net test, or even a P.6 assignment for students.They always need an "answer key."

To understand the whole problem, please take a look at the "First Lady" She's a kind of reflecting the whole system. How much does she know about other countries, or languages?

How much do people know about education, working at the MoE?

I love all the kids like my own, nobody can blame them. It's the Thai society that seems to have a problem, our son in M.2 now is in the same situation. His English teacher is asking him, if he doesn't get something in English.

The rich kids will get a good paid job, doesn't matter how uneducated they are.

But I guess also at Wall Street are not the best educated guys, only the richest.. ----

.

That was very well put, thank you, from my own experience, which I will grant anyone, is limited, the thing that is the very opponent of learning is teaching by rote, my command of the Thai language is not that good, but I do know that 'chew' means name 'arai' means what and 'tee nai' means where, when I hear those Thai words I then try to work out the padding of the question, is it me, is it my Dad or the dog.

The kids are taught to respond to "how old are you" with "I am xx years old" ...... and if anyone asks them "and you are how old" ...... silence and confusion.

Teach them how, what, when, why, who, where first, get them to listen for the sound of those words no matter where they appear in the question and respond accordingly

[thunder30101]

What do you want for nothing ?

[Somtamnication]

So why the pic of a mathayom class?

My students have a hard time reading Thai, and forget their reading skills in English. They also have to learn Chinese. I think that is too much. They should choose which language to study and concentrate on that one.

That being said, the system here of rote prevents them to think analytically during these O-Net tests. (But I have pics of my school receiving the O-Net books 2 weeks prior and all teachers furiously copying the pages to teach the students how to pass).

[bumpkin]

hmm...... is it a very bad translation of the English word "Average", which then fits almost perfectly into the context of the rest of the article.....

Or did someone miss their morning coffee before writing this article lol.

interesting indeed. Surely, by defintion, about half will be below and half will be above average.

How long must we wait until all 100% are above average, maybe the next election promise !

That will be a tribute to Thai mathematics education !

[sirchai]

So why the pic of a mathayom class?

My students have a hard time reading Thai, and forget their reading skills in English. They also have to learn Chinese. I think that is too much. They should choose which language to study and concentrate on that one.

That being said, the system here of rote prevents them to think analytically during these O-Net tests. (But I have pics of my school receiving the O-Net books 2 weeks prior and all teachers furiously copying the pages to teach the students how to pass).

Many students have to "study" Chinese, what a joke.the hour per week, taught by "selected" Chinese, mostly attractive girls.

Haven't met one student at primary or high school level ( not being Chinese) who could speak, read or write properly.

But they khow how to top their problems through the upcoming ASEAN association! Some schools tell them they must learn one of these languages.

Guess it won't be a problem to find teachers who can teach Tagalog here.

Would you please send me the test questions, (but also the by Thai professional chosen right answers!) I'd love to see all of them having high scores. --

Edited September 20, 2012 by sirchai

[Somtamnication]

My school´s preparation for Asean? Make P1 through P6 draw their flags and costumes.

[Newguy70]

The biggest problem is that they push the students ahead no matter what. So, tell me how do you teach a bunch of children who have been pushed through the system. The teachers are in a no win situation. The parents can hold the child back a year, but they don't. The Thai teachers need alot of documentation supporting why they want to fail the child, and one subject will not keep a child back. So, you need several teachers per student. Not gonna happen. Thus we are in this situation.

[Newguy70]

Pretty much the same. Regarding making flags and costumes, oh and learning how the say hello in each of the Asean countries. The Thai teacher told the students that in Singapore they greet you with Nee How (chinese), I found that interesting. Asked her if she had ever been to Singapore, answer was no. After I told her I had been to Singapore a few times and that I was greeted, and spoken to In English, she just smiled as if I said lalalalalalalalalalala.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Newguy70

[sirchai]

Pretty much the same. Regarding making flags and costumes, oh and learning how the say hello in each of the Asean countries. The Thai teacher told the students that in Singapore they greet you with Nee How (chinese), I found that interesting. Asked her if she had ever been to Singapore, answer was no. After I told her I had been to Singapore a few times and that I was greeted, and spoken to In English, she just smiled as if I said lalalalalalalalalalala.

Your post is pretty much unfair, majority of Thais don't travel a lot. Many in Singapore greet you in Chinese, as many older people do not speak any other language.:

Singapore is a multi-racial society. And it’s the smallest of the ten ASEAN member countries in area.

The main languages are English, Mandarin and other Chinese Dialects, Malay (Bahasa Melayu) and Tamil.

If you are in touristy areas, there might be those who know Japanese or even French or German.

But while most Singaporean know English (especially those under 40 years of age). The standard of English is very different among individuals.

But beware there are those who only speak a creole form of English, called "Singlish."

This is from a Singaporean and if a teacher’s saying that they say “Nee Hauw” to say hello, they’re definitely not wrong.

How much do you know about the ten countries, if I may ask you? How much do they know in Myanmar about the other countries? -

Edited September 20, 2012 by sirchai

[Newguy70]

Enough to know that they do not greet you with Nee How ( not sure of the spelling). I have Singaporean friends who are chinese and if you greet them with nee how, they will think you are playing a practical joke. Plus, I have been a few times myself. Would you like to see my travel miles.

It's very fair, she shouldn't of advised the students that the greeting for Singaporeans is the chinese greeting. She should of advised the students that Singapore is a multicultural country, and that they use English as the main language in the gov., bus, educ. sectors.

Thus the reason of the Aseana activities in school...

I'm attempting to provide the tools to the children here, so that they have as many opportunities as possible when they step out into the real world. How the other countries go about it, is not my concern.....

Edited September 20, 2012 by Newguy70

[naboo]

My school´s preparation for Asean? Make P1 through P6 draw their flags and costumes.

Did they prepare a dance as well?

But the stats in the above story remind me of a comment from the head of Mathayom at my school. Having drawn a distribution curve of the results, she pointed out that half of the students were below the peak and so had failed. Chicken and egg here. What will come first, the smart teacher or the good education system?

[culicine]

The take the average as a passing variable? When you do that, no matter where and no matter how good your students are, there will always be a large group that will fail a test. That's how averages work. Some above, some below! If you have 20.000 geniuses in your population, it's nearly impossible to pass when you are just very intelligent!

Quite right. Maybe the MOE failed M3 statistics:)

[culicine]

The problem, as I see it, is the O-Net test difficulty is not aligned with the content in the curriculum. These tests are generally much more difficult than what is presented in schools. Sometimes I feel the ajarns are just showing off how smart they are, rather than evaluating what students have learned in school. No wonder why most students give up when they can't even muster 30% on a multiple choice test! This is also a major cause of discipline problems, along with pushing all students through the system regardless of what they do at school. Where I come from, if you performed well at school, you were well prepared for state/national tests. Not so in Thailand, where only the wealthiest can afford a reasonable education, and a shot at good university courses. It's just another way to supress they poor - deny them a decent, equitable education which is the right of all citizens of any country.

[oops]

Unfortunately my child goes to a Thai Bilingle school. Which means we pay more for the suppression of our children. Thai Teachers should be ashamed of themselves.

Thailand should be ashamed of themselves with so much wealth in this country they can afford to have good schools. But the corruption won't allow it because there is more money in private schools in which you have to pay a deposit for this, deposit for that, a fee for this a fee for that.

They want 3000 baht just to put your name on a list in an effort to make you believe you’re lucky if your child gets into the school.

Then they hammer you with 200,000 baht deposit for first time enrollment fee.

Then some want a maintenance fee 200,000

You basically end up paying up to 600,000 baht to enroll your child in a school.

The fees are to keep you from moving your child to another school if you don't like her current school or you find out she was learning more at the Thai public school.

The government school has another way to keep you from moving your child to another school...They simply won't except your child until the following year and then they want to make them repeat the previous year because she/he hasn't been in school for 7 months.

THAILAND GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES AND YES I KNOW YOUR WATCHING AND READING EVERTHING THE FARRANGS SAY. THE Good thing is I know you all went to the same school system ....enough said!.

When the Thai children go to our countries we at least own up to the responsibilities of taking care of children and make sure they recieve a standard education

Current policies keep parents running around in circles while the school system pushing them into draining their pockets and

pawning off all their valuables spending every last dime they have. Then to add insult to injury they try to make it seem if the children don't pass a test then they can't be accepted.

So off go the parents rushing to a learning center where again they want money to test the child, money for books, money for first time enrollment fee. After all that you think you found a place that will help your child where you can't “OH NO!”

Now they want you to pay for more books then sell you some long program only to make it impossible or convenient for you to get your child to the class because they only have these programs on the weekend, so by chance your the lucky ones who have love your children enough to put them sports...this conflicts with Thai methology, and only grown ups should play soccer.

[oops]

What do you want for nothing ?

Gosh your right, when it comes time corperate Thailand to find qualified staff....well you said it all " What do you get for nothing". When one of their children dies on the street going out to dinner with friends, HEY! can't blame the ignorant ones can you. If you don't understand about future investments then we would be hard pressed to explain why and educated society is much better than....lets say...HARLEM