New Born Baby And Pollution - Are We Being Stupid?!

[mallymal]

Hey all

My wife and I are planning on a move to CM for up to a year. Although we're planning to arrive late November, we're expecting our first born mid February.

I've been hearing lots of reports of the pollution situation geting worse in CM. How long are the levels hazardous and at what time of year?

Are we stupid go have our baby right in the middle of potentially the most hazardous levels?!

Anyone have any experience of having a new born, or can tell me more about the pollution situation? We've only visited in November 2011...

Many thanks,

Mal

[benever]

There are plenty of expats in Beijing or Shanghai with little kids. By comparison CM has the purest air on earth. Don't worry too much.

[junglechef]

As a Mt Biker I check the levels everyday during the burning season and some days it can be real bad and I don't ride. I also find some years are much worse than others. This year I have a baby who will be 1 yr in April and we will go south for a month beach vacation.

[Beetlejuice]

No, it`s pretty bad and at certain times of the year the air is choking and almost unbreathable.

If you decide to bring a baby or young child into Chiang Mai, you do so at your own risk and discretion.

[transam]

There are plenty of expats in Beijing or Shanghai with little kids. By comparison CM has the purest air on earth. Don't worry too much.

. OP, do a search on this forum. I went to CM last year, October l think, and the shit in the air was noticeable. There is a problem.

[eyecatcher]

Surely its about minimising risk; so unless its absolutely necessary why expose a young one to such toxicity.

I would assume also as responsible parents, you would put a baby in a car seat when travelling...again to minimise risk....how bad would you feel in 2 years taking your child to the doctor to treat asthma....or worse

[doppa]

as folks have said some years are worse than others, this year pretty awful to the point of the school giving us daily pollution readings, which would determine whether school would be open.

[Priceless]

'I've been hearing lots of reports of the pollution situation geting worse in CM.'

It all depends on what you mean by this. The long-term trend is very positive, the average pollution level has fallen by ~40% since mid-2004. That said, there are fairly large variations between different years giving 'high' and 'low' years. So far, though, every 'high' year has been lower than the previous 'high'. Obviously no one knows in advance what kind of year 2013 will be

However, what characterizes pollution in Chiang Mai (and the rest of the Upper North) are the very sharp seasonal variations, normally peaking from mid-February to the end of March:

As for some of the comments above, remember that subjectiveness is subjective E.g. October of last year (as indeed November) had very little pollution with averages around 30 µg/m³, with the Pollution Control Department's 'risk level' set at 120. The Chiang Mai levels for those months were half the levels at Din Daeng in Bangkok at the same time.

As for your future baby, that is your responsibility and must be your decision. If the baby is strong and healthy there shouldn't be a problem (babies are born here all the time...). On the other hand, if the baby turns out to have asthma or some other respiratory problem, you should probably get out of Chiang Mai on the double and not come back until around Songkran.

/ Priceless

[KRS1]

When the slash and burn starts that is when it really gets bad.Living on Huay Kaew road last year i could see sediment from the pollution overnight on my balcony.

You could always put a little facemask on your child when going outside and keep the windows closed when home.

[mallymal]

thanks everyone for your replies so far. Hmmm... i guess I could also buy a HEPA filter for home and car...

[hellodolly]

thanks everyone for your replies so far. Hmmm... i guess I could also buy a HEPA filter for home and car...

You beat me to it. As has been said it is unpredictable. We found ourselves using the air con to get through some of the worst of it this year. Last year it was not a problem we had rain instead.

The baby will be a New Born and more susceptible to problems so yes get filters HEPA is the best. But remember as some posters have pointed out children get born here year round for hundreds of years.

[yoslim]

IF you want your newborn to have some chronic pulmonary disease go ahead

[WinnieTheKhwai]

'I've been hearing lots of reports of the pollution situation geting worse in CM.'

It all depends on what you mean by this. The long-term trend is very positive, the average pollution level has fallen by ~40% since mid-2004. That said, there are fairly large variations between different years giving 'high' and 'low' years. So far, though, every 'high' year has been lower than the previous 'high'. Obviously no one knows in advance what kind of year 2013 will be

However, what characterizes pollution in Chiang Mai (and the rest of the Upper North) are the very sharp seasonal variations, normally peaking from mid-February to the end of March:

As for some of the comments above, remember that subjectiveness is subjective E.g. October of last year (as indeed November) had very little pollution with averages around 30 µg/m³, with the Pollution Control Department's 'risk level' set at 120. The Chiang Mai levels for those months were half the levels at Din Daeng in Bangkok at the same time.

As for your future baby, that is your responsibility and must be your decision. If the baby is strong and healthy there shouldn't be a problem (babies are born here all the time...). On the other hand, if the baby turns out to have asthma or some other respiratory problem, you should probably get out of Chiang Mai on the double and not come back until around Songkran.

/ Priceless

I completely agree with all of that. However, if you're with a newborn baby in March, don't be in Chiang Mai.

Everything is fine come April. (Just hot, but that shouldn't' be an issue)

I have young kids here and March is by far the shittiest month, weather-wise. So we're planning a holiday.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

thanks everyone for your replies so far. Hmmm... i guess I could also buy a HEPA filter for home and car...

No. You just shouldn't be in the North of Thailand.

[BlueSmurf]

March is the worst month but last year it was way over the safe limits for 4 moths. So in effect you are filtering the air using your lungs. I will not be staying for the month of march.. Most locals have no choice but to stay but you do... The Thais always say they are sorting it even in talks with Burma about burning but last year was the worst ever.. If this burning season is the same then its good bye to the north for us..

[Thailand]

If it is any sort of a concern do not be be in Chiangmai Feb/March unless like last year it is raining to douse the incessant burning.this year was dreadful!

[mesquite]

If possible do not be in CM with your newborn in March. If you have to, get a HEPA filter and keep him/her inside.

[chiang mai]

It seems very unfair on a new born to immerse them in air that will almost certainly be quite heavily polluted, you at least have a choice not to be here and I would urge you to exersise that choice.

[HaleySabai]

it was way over the safe limits for 4 moths.

That is a serve exaggeration.

I've lived here for more than 10yrs and last feb/mar was indeed bad, the worst I have seen over that period. In reality, it is a 4-6wk crop burn-off starting in mid-feb to end of March,this maybe compounded by seasonal forest fires from neighboring countries or minimized by unseasonal rainfall.

Next year we are planning a trip to Nepal for one month or perhaps to Bali for the Ubud music festival in March.

Our daughter was born 3yrs ago in CM on Mar.17 and hasn't had any more health problems than the common "ben-wat"

[Priceless]

March is the worst month but last year it was way over the safe limits for 4 moths. So in effect you are filtering the air using your lungs. I will not be staying for the month of march.. Most locals have no choice but to stay but you do... The Thais always say they are sorting it even in talks with Burma about burning but last year was the worst ever.. If this burning season is the same then its good bye to the north for us..

Don't ask me about the poster's motives, but this is a blatant lie!

Last year (2011) was the best year on record, with not a single day over the Thai standard limit of 120 µg/m³. If we are kind and for a moment assume that the poster actually means this year, we did have a bad March with 13 observations over the limit (and one such day in February). However, January, February and April were all less polluted than the Chiang Mai average.

That said, it is still true, as several other posters have confirmed, that since the pollution period is (normally) so concentrated, it may well be a good idea to stay away for the first six weeks of your baby's life, i.e. past the end of March. After that s/he will be a bit stronger and more developed and most of the pollution should be gone.

/ Priceless

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

March is the worst month but last year it was way over the safe limits for 4 moths. So in effect you are filtering the air using your lungs. I will not be staying for the month of march.. Most locals have no choice but to stay but you do... The Thais always say they are sorting it even in talks with Burma about burning but last year was the worst ever.. If this burning season is the same then its good bye to the north for us..

Don't ask me about the poster's motives, but this is a blatant lie!

Last year (2011) was the best year on record, with not a single day over the Thai standard limit of 120 µg/m³. If we are kind and for a moment assume that the poster actually means this year, we did have a bad March with 13 observations over the limit (and one such day in February). However, January, February and April were all less polluted than the Chiang Mai average.

That said, it is still true, as several other posters have confirmed, that since the pollution period is (normally) so concentrated, it may well be a good idea to stay away for the first six weeks of your baby's life, i.e. past the end of March. After that s/he will be a bit stronger and more developed and most of the pollution should be gone.

/ Priceless

let's not get into name calling and accusations already. It's not good air for health and the previous poster didn't say who's limits. It may be personal limits or another countries standards. For me exercising its way over my personal limits for healthy exercise.

Priceless makes a lot of contributions to the debate but also comes off very pedantic and petty at times. Perhaps this is due to his own motives whatever they might be.

Show some more harmony and good nature in this on going discussion.

[cloudhopper]

Every poster is entitled to be pedantic and petty - that's a matter of style and interpretation. No poster is entitled to manufacture facts however, and I for one enjoy seeing such posts getting crushed however it's done.

[Priceless]

March is the worst month but last year it was way over the safe limits for 4 moths. So in effect you are filtering the air using your lungs. I will not be staying for the month of march.. Most locals have no choice but to stay but you do... The Thais always say they are sorting it even in talks with Burma about burning but last year was the worst ever.. If this burning season is the same then its good bye to the north for us..

Don't ask me about the poster's motives, but this is a blatant lie!

Last year (2011) was the best year on record, with not a single day over the Thai standard limit of 120 µg/m³. If we are kind and for a moment assume that the poster actually means this year, we did have a bad March with 13 observations over the limit (and one such day in February). However, January, February and April were all less polluted than the Chiang Mai average.

That said, it is still true, as several other posters have confirmed, that since the pollution period is (normally) so concentrated, it may well be a good idea to stay away for the first six weeks of your baby's life, i.e. past the end of March. After that s/he will be a bit stronger and more developed and most of the pollution should be gone.

/ Priceless

let's not get into name calling and accusations already. It's not good air for health and the previous poster didn't say who's limits. It may be personal limits or another countries standards. For me exercising its way over my personal limits for healthy exercise.

Priceless makes a lot of contributions to the debate but also comes off very pedantic and petty at times. Perhaps this is due to his own motives whatever they might be.

Show some more harmony and good nature in this on going discussion.

My motives are quite simple:

In any discussion of factual circumstances, it is preferable (if not necessary) to stick to FACTS while such are available. Otherwise the discussion turns to merely an exchange of opinions appearing as facts, which can only mislead.

If the poster above ('BlueSmurf') indeed referred to his personal opinions, he should have called it that and not 'safe limits'.

As for other countries' standards, let me quote you a few (in µg/m³):

Thailand: 120

Singapore: 150

Vietnam: 150

Philippines: 150

Malaysia: 150

Indonesia: 150

Myanmar: N/L

Lao PDR: N/L

Cambodia: N/L

PDR China (Grade II): 150

USA: 150

(The European Union does not have a limit for individual daily level.)

/ Priceless

[chiang mai]

Let's not kill posters for being lazy with imprecise English, we are after all in a social networking forum and not the debating halls of Oxbridge, a quick test of whether it was misfeasons or malfeasons should answer the earlier issue.

[hellodolly]

March is the worst month but last year it was way over the safe limits for 4 moths. So in effect you are filtering the air using your lungs. I will not be staying for the month of march.. Most locals have no choice but to stay but you do... The Thais always say they are sorting it even in talks with Burma about burning but last year was the worst ever.. If this burning season is the same then its good bye to the north for us..

Don't ask me about the poster's motives, but this is a blatant lie!

Last year (2011) was the best year on record, with not a single day over the Thai standard limit of 120 µg/m³. If we are kind and for a moment assume that the poster actually means this year, we did have a bad March with 13 observations over the limit (and one such day in February). However, January, February and April were all less polluted than the Chiang Mai average.

That said, it is still true, as several other posters have confirmed, that since the pollution period is (normally) so concentrated, it may well be a good idea to stay away for the first six weeks of your baby's life, i.e. past the end of March. After that s/he will be a bit stronger and more developed and most of the pollution should be gone.

/ Priceless

let's not get into name calling and accusations already. It's not good air for health and the previous poster didn't say who's limits. It may be personal limits or another countries standards. For me exercising its way over my personal limits for healthy exercise.

Priceless makes a lot of contributions to the debate but also comes off very pedantic and petty at times. Perhaps this is due to his own motives whatever they might be.

Show some more harmony and good nature in this on going discussion.

While I agree with the spirit of your post. I do agree that when a out and out false hood is posted people have the right to respond severely to it. Especially when there is recorded facts to refer to. With out the facts but in my opinion I believe it was March and April of 2007 that had the worst. It was even talked about on CNN

As a rule we know there is a strong chance of it happening in March and many who can afford it take a vacation to the sea side or other areas. This can be a good idea based on one's own situation. do you have the funds. Do you want to spend them then. Are you willing to stay here like most of the people do. If you are willing to do that are you willing to wear a quality mask are you willing to get a air purifier for the room.

Chances are if you have a brand new baby you arenot going to be taking them out for a stroll a month old.

One more thing to remember is that people who are exposed to various sickness at a early age tend to live longer than those who were over protected and did not build up a immunity fighting system in their youth.

With a new born I would have a air purifier with a HEPA filter. Or go to a quite beach resort I know of North of Nonkong Si Tammaret.

[chiang mai]

I have to say this thread amazes me for a number of reasons, it amazes me that there is anything other than complete agreement that CM is unsuitable for a newborn baby during burning season (where there is choice). Secondly, that some posters are prepared to be so heavy handed with others who have made casual and perhaps lazy statements, perhaps to emphasise their point, (albeit an incorrect one) is very troubling. Heinious crimes these are not, "if we are kind" one poster said, yes, why not let's be that and simply move on rather than regurgitating fact and drawing sides!

[mallymal]

okay - let's approach this from another angle, where would you suggest escaping to that would be suitable for a recovering mother and newborn?

When people suggest 'heading to the coast' where would make a good destination, rather than a crazy party hotspot?

cheers!

Mal

P.S. I'm a Brit and my wife is an Aussie in case you were wondering...

Edited September 22, 2012 by mallymal

[Priceless]

okay - let's approach this from another angle, where would you suggest escaping to that would be suitable for a recovering mother and newborn?

When people suggest 'heading to the coast' where would make a good destination, rather than a crazy party hotspot?

cheers!

Mal

P.S. I'm a Brit and my wife is an Aussie in case you were wondering...

From a pollution (and climate) point of view it seems that Surat Thani would be a good choice. I have very little personal experience from there, but it seems that the mainland province would be your best choice. Koh Phangan is very much a backpacker party place and Koh Samui is quite expensive (very much so compared to Chiang Mai).

Phuket is also a good choice from the pollution aspect, but very touristy and expensive.

Prachuap Khiri Khan (e.g. Hua Hin) is supposedly very laid back but should also suit your environmental needs.

From the pollution aspect you would probably do well to avoid all of the Upper North and Central Thailand. Sara Buri is by far the most polluted area in the country and Bangkok (at least the central parts) is not very good either.

/ Priceless

[mallymal]

okay - let's approach this from another angle, where would you suggest escaping to that would be suitable for a recovering mother and newborn?

When people suggest 'heading to the coast' where would make a good destination, rather than a crazy party hotspot?

cheers!

Mal

P.S. I'm a Brit and my wife is an Aussie in case you were wondering...

From a pollution (and climate) point of view it seems that Surat Thani would be a good choice. I have very little personal experience from there, but it seems that the mainland province would be your best choice. Koh Phangan is very much a backpacker party place and Koh Samui is quite expensive (very much so compared to Chiang Mai).

Phuket is also a good choice from the pollution aspect, but very touristy and expensive.

Prachuap Khiri Khan (e.g. Hua Hin) is supposedly very laid back but should also suit your environmental needs.

From the pollution aspect you would probably do well to avoid all of the Upper North and Central Thailand. Sara Buri is by far the most polluted area in the country and Bangkok (at least the central parts) is not very good either.

/ Priceless

thanks Priceless

[TommoPhysicist]

MY baby appears to have lived through it.

So it can't be as bad as the nutters suggest.

A little bit of pollution is part of life in the 3rd world.

Edited September 22, 2012 by TommoPhysicist