Thai Resident Application - Successful!

[MacWalen]

Point taken Dave, so being more specific it is permanent residency. No more Thai visas needed. If I make a kid he will be Thai, taking a Thai queue at the airport immigration and few other things. In time being able to apply for Thai citizenship.

first congradulations.....You dont need permanent resisdency for you child to be thai. This assuming the mom is thai....

If it is not to personal what did this cost? Also did you have any surprises like having to sing songs?

Yankee, I had to pay taxes based on at least 80,000 Baht salary for the last 10 years which amounts to about 10,000 Baht per month, also time and money to prepare all the paperwork. On the day of receiving residency I also had to pay 191,400 Baht in government fee plus some money as a token of appreciation. It was a long process. I got accepted in the business category. I believe family category would be easier and cheaper. Did not have to sing a song but had to pass Thai exam but it was not a hard exam, just everyday chat. Also they talk to you in Thai each time I went there to make extensions and also this time.

[camerata]

Are you married? When I applied in 2004 I was told that you got the reduced fee of 100,000 baht if you have a Thai spouse, even if you are applying in the Business category. I didn't pay any money as a token of appreciation, though.

My experience at the airport is that you can use the Thai passport holders channel if you have PR, but it's a good idea to have your PR book visible in your hand so that you don't get kicked out of the queue by an airport official. Other foreigners will see you in the queue and stand behind you, only to get kicked out again.

[NewlyMintedThai]

There used to be other advantages to permanent residence. For instance, I received a driving licence for cars and motorbikes that was valid for life, not one or five years. Unfortunately that was one of the benefits that was dropped around the time the fees went up. Thankfully, it was not retroactive so I still have my "life" driving licence.

I was also told I could buy a gun although I had no wish to. The best thing is that you never need to visit Immigration ever again unless you want to leave the country and then it's a brief, hassle-free trip to get an endorsement and re-entry visa. Renewing a police book every five years is a simple formality that costs 800 baht and takes very little time. You don't even have to do it yourself.

Lifetime license had nothing to do with PR. It was open to anyone and just eliminated and made 5 years for new applicants.

Foreigners previously did not receive a lifetime license unless they had PR.

I had a year-by-year license from the late 80's until I got PR in 2002. At that time, I was given a lifetime one.

There are no lifetime licenses given anymore -- whether for Thais or for foreigners -- so I'm grateful I got mine in time.

[NewlyMintedThai]

On the day of receiving residency I also had to pay 191,400 Baht in government fee plus some money as a token of appreciation. It was a long process.

You made a payment to a public official? Not sure I'd advertise that fact here.

For the record: such payments are NOT legal and NOT required.

I handled the entire process myself, without any thieving lawyers telling me I had to pay tea money (which they mostly pocket themselves). Stay away from lawyers when doing this!

[lopburi3]

There used to be other advantages to permanent residence. For instance, I received a driving licence for cars and motorbikes that was valid for life, not one or five years. Unfortunately that was one of the benefits that was dropped around the time the fees went up. Thankfully, it was not retroactive so I still have my "life" driving licence.

I was also told I could buy a gun although I had no wish to. The best thing is that you never need to visit Immigration ever again unless you want to leave the country and then it's a brief, hassle-free trip to get an endorsement and re-entry visa. Renewing a police book every five years is a simple formality that costs 800 baht and takes very little time. You don't even have to do it yourself.

Lifetime license had nothing to do with PR. It was open to anyone and just eliminated and made 5 years for new applicants.

Foreigners previously did not receive a lifetime license unless they had PR.

I had a year-by-year license from the late 80's until I got PR in 2002. At that time, I was given a lifetime one.

There are no lifetime licenses given anymore -- whether for Thais or for foreigners -- so I'm grateful I got mine in time.

I still have my 1969 lifetime license and have never had PR.

[NewlyMintedThai]

There used to be other advantages to permanent residence. For instance, I received a driving licence for cars and motorbikes that was valid for life, not one or five years. Unfortunately that was one of the benefits that was dropped around the time the fees went up. Thankfully, it was not retroactive so I still have my "life" driving licence.

I was also told I could buy a gun although I had no wish to. The best thing is that you never need to visit Immigration ever again unless you want to leave the country and then it's a brief, hassle-free trip to get an endorsement and re-entry visa. Renewing a police book every five years is a simple formality that costs 800 baht and takes very little time. You don't even have to do it yourself.

Lifetime license had nothing to do with PR. It was open to anyone and just eliminated and made 5 years for new applicants.

Foreigners previously did not receive a lifetime license unless they had PR.

I had a year-by-year license from the late 80's until I got PR in 2002. At that time, I was given a lifetime one.

There are no lifetime licenses given anymore -- whether for Thais or for foreigners -- so I'm grateful I got mine in time.

I still have my 1969 lifetime license and have never had PR.

Ah...if you want to go back THAT far, yes -- foreigners could get lifetime licenses without PR. I think the rules were changed decades ago, though.

[lopburi3]

Not that I want to go back that far.

[samran]

There used to be other advantages to permanent residence. For instance, I received a driving licence for cars and motorbikes that was valid for life, not one or five years. Unfortunately that was one of the benefits that was dropped around the time the fees went up. Thankfully, it was not retroactive so I still have my "life" driving licence.

I was also told I could buy a gun although I had no wish to. The best thing is that you never need to visit Immigration ever again unless you want to leave the country and then it's a brief, hassle-free trip to get an endorsement and re-entry visa. Renewing a police book every five years is a simple formality that costs 800 baht and takes very little time. You don't even have to do it yourself.

Lifetime license had nothing to do with PR. It was open to anyone and just eliminated and made 5 years for new applicants.

Foreigners previously did not receive a lifetime license unless they had PR.

I had a year-by-year license from the late 80's until I got PR in 2002. At that time, I was given a lifetime one.

There are no lifetime licenses given anymore -- whether for Thais or for foreigners -- so I'm grateful I got mine in time.

I still have my 1969 lifetime license and have never had PR.

I'm curious Lop,

Did you by chance have some sort of visa extension back in 1969? The reason I ask is from reading Arkady's history of Thai immigration laws, any extension of visas then was effectively PR.

From memory, PR as we know it wasn't introduced till the mid to late 70's.

I stand to be corrected on that though.

[Spoonman]

There used to be other advantages to permanent residence. For instance, I received a driving licence for cars and motorbikes that was valid for life, not one or five years. Unfortunately that was one of the benefits that was dropped around the time the fees went up. Thankfully, it was not retroactive so I still have my "life" driving licence.

I was also told I could buy a gun although I had no wish to. The best thing is that you never need to visit Immigration ever again unless you want to leave the country and then it's a brief, hassle-free trip to get an endorsement and re-entry visa. Renewing a police book every five years is a simple formality that costs 800 baht and takes very little time. You don't even have to do it yourself.

Lifetime license had nothing to do with PR. It was open to anyone and just eliminated and made 5 years for new applicants.

Foreigners previously did not receive a lifetime license unless they had PR.

I had a year-by-year license from the late 80's until I got PR in 2002. At that time, I was given a lifetime one.

There are no lifetime licenses given anymore -- whether for Thais or for foreigners -- so I'm grateful I got mine in time.

I still have my 1969 lifetime license and have never had PR.

Not to make you feel old Lop (but then I guess you are) but you got your lifetime Thai licence 3 years before I was born and Iam turning 40 soon !!!

[lopburi3]

I'm curious Lop,

Did you by chance have some sort of visa extension back in 1969? The reason I ask is from reading Arkady's history of Thai immigration laws, any extension of visas then was effectively PR.

From memory, PR as we know it wasn't introduced till the mid to late 70's.

I stand to be corrected on that though.

I was here as US Department of Defense civilian employee at that time. Had one year first and then changed to lifetime as was not much more expensive than another one year.

[NewlyMintedThai]

An excellent investment!

[dinga]

Are you married? When I applied in 2004 I was told that you got the reduced fee of 100,000 baht if you have a Thai spouse, even if you are applying in the Business category. I didn't pay any money as a token of appreciation, though.

Is this correct???

[jbrain]

There used to be other advantages to permanent residence. For instance, I received a driving licence for cars and motorbikes that was valid for life, not one or five years. Unfortunately that was one of the benefits that was dropped around the time the fees went up. Thankfully, it was not retroactive so I still have my "life" driving licence.

I was also told I could buy a gun although I had no wish to. The best thing is that you never need to visit Immigration ever again unless you want to leave the country and then it's a brief, hassle-free trip to get an endorsement and re-entry visa. Renewing a police book every five years is a simple formality that costs 800 baht and takes very little time. You don't even have to do it yourself.

So if I understand it correctly, it can be translated as a very expensive 5 year visa,which costed McWalen about 1.5 Million alltogether and had to jump through a lot of hoops.

Let me have my yearly retirement extension at 1900 Baht, and I don't care to go say hello at immigration every 90 days.

[NewlyMintedThai]

So if I understand it correctly, it can be translated as a very expensive 5 year visa,which costed McWalen about 1.5 Million alltogether and had to jump through a lot of hoops.

Let me have my yearly retirement extension at 1900 Baht, and I don't care to go say hello at immigration every 90 days.

Your understanding is very incorrect.

[p_brownstone]

There used to be other advantages to permanent residence. For instance, I received a driving licence for cars and motorbikes that was valid for life, not one or five years. Unfortunately that was one of the benefits that was dropped around the time the fees went up. Thankfully, it was not retroactive so I still have my "life" driving licence.

I was also told I could buy a gun although I had no wish to. The best thing is that you never need to visit Immigration ever again unless you want to leave the country and then it's a brief, hassle-free trip to get an endorsement and re-entry visa. Renewing a police book every five years is a simple formality that costs 800 baht and takes very little time. You don't even have to do it yourself.

So if I understand it correctly, it can be translated as a very expensive 5 year visa,which costed McWalen about 1.5 Million alltogether and had to jump through a lot of hoops.

Let me have my yearly retirement extension at 1900 Baht, and I don't care to go say hello at immigration every 90 days.

It's nothing like any type of Visa - partly because as the title indicates it is Permanent.

The 5 yearly extension of the Residence Certificate is simplicity itself - with no supporting Documents or other requirements - you pay your Baht 800.- and get the extension back immediately.

Your Retirement Visa on the other hand gives you absolutely no security of stay whatsoever. When renewal is due you could easily find that the requirements have changed and you no longer qualify for that type of Visa (for example the financial requirements - money in the Bank or monthly Pension amounts - can change, as they have several times in the past).

Patrick

[MacWalen]

There used to be other advantages to permanent residence. For instance, I received a driving licence for cars and motorbikes that was valid for life, not one or five years. Unfortunately that was one of the benefits that was dropped around the time the fees went up. Thankfully, it was not retroactive so I still have my "life" driving licence.

I was also told I could buy a gun although I had no wish to. The best thing is that you never need to visit Immigration ever again unless you want to leave the country and then it's a brief, hassle-free trip to get an endorsement and re-entry visa. Renewing a police book every five years is a simple formality that costs 800 baht and takes very little time. You don't even have to do it yourself.

So if I understand it correctly, it can be translated as a very expensive 5 year visa,which costed McWalen about 1.5 Million alltogether and had to jump through a lot of hoops.

Let me have my yearly retirement extension at 1900 Baht, and I don't care to go say hello at immigration every 90 days.

Yes, the total cost was around 1.5 million.

Jbrain, you have your retirement visa extension now but times are changing, we do not know what the future will bring, what will be retirement visa requirements in a few years time. It is 50 years old now but perhaps next year it will be changed to 55 or even 60-65. The amount of money you need to have may change also, you may need regular income etc. In any case you are still a guest here. Remember that there are more and more older people who retire and would like to live in Thailand. In time some of them might be considered a burden here. You never know. People are welcome to live and plan their life as they see fit.

I love Thailand and I have long term plan to live here so I do not like surprises. I got my PR and I can justify to myself the cost for what I got and I am happy and proud to have it now.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Yes, and there are many other advantages.

a) Thai line at immigration;

easier access to credit;

c) no need to bring money in from overseas when purchasing condo;

d) I have heard -- though not confirmed -- that it exempts you from being restricted to owning in the 49% foreigner quota of condo buildings;

e) although you still need a work permit, requirements are much more lax (you can't work at all on a retirement visa).

f) it is a step towards citizenship;

g) offers much, much more security than any alternative visa class and protects you from possible capricious requirement changes in the future;

h) It is permanent. You never have to apply for another visa or face scrutiny every again.

[bdenner]

Congratulations on succeeding with the 1st step of the path you have taken. For me living here for 12 years now, the 1st 3 years of which was under a work permit situation with a major multinational oil company, I often thought of taking this road.

So many negatives, goal posts moving, the system grinding to a halt etc. have made me realise the 800K in the bank retirement visa system works "near on" just as well for me.

[sas_cars]

I'm curious Lop,

Did you by chance have some sort of visa extension back in 1969? The reason I ask is from reading Arkady's history of Thai immigration laws, any extension of visas then was effectively PR.

From memory, PR as we know it wasn't introduced till the mid to late 70's.

I stand to be corrected on that though.

I was here as US Department of Defense civilian employee at that time. Had one year first and then changed to lifetime as was not much more expensive than another one year.

Lop, you mean the life time license here or the Visa/PR?

[samran]

There used to be other advantages to permanent residence. For instance, I received a driving licence for cars and motorbikes that was valid for life, not one or five years. Unfortunately that was one of the benefits that was dropped around the time the fees went up. Thankfully, it was not retroactive so I still have my "life" driving licence.

I was also told I could buy a gun although I had no wish to. The best thing is that you never need to visit Immigration ever again unless you want to leave the country and then it's a brief, hassle-free trip to get an endorsement and re-entry visa. Renewing a police book every five years is a simple formality that costs 800 baht and takes very little time. You don't even have to do it yourself.

So if I understand it correctly, it can be translated as a very expensive 5 year visa,which costed McWalen about 1.5 Million alltogether and had to jump through a lot of hoops.

Let me have my yearly retirement extension at 1900 Baht, and I don't care to go say hello at immigration every 90 days.

Yes, the total cost was around 1.5 million.

so that was 1.3million in lawyer fees? The remaining 200K or so was offical fees?

[dinga]

Are you married? When I applied in 2004 I was told that you got the reduced fee of 100,000 baht if you have a Thai spouse, even if you are applying in the Business category. I didn't pay any money as a token of appreciation, though.

Is this correct???

Sorry to ask again (but my question was buried amongst other posts), could someone pls clarify the PR fee. I am a Class of 2008 Business Applicant who got married to a Thai lady in that same year. If my PR Application is successful, what is the fee?

Tks & apols for my impatience

[lopburi3]

I'm curious Lop,

Did you by chance have some sort of visa extension back in 1969? The reason I ask is from reading Arkady's history of Thai immigration laws, any extension of visas then was effectively PR.

From memory, PR as we know it wasn't introduced till the mid to late 70's.

I stand to be corrected on that though.

I was here as US Department of Defense civilian employee at that time. Had one year first and then changed to lifetime as was not much more expensive than another one year.

Lop, you mean the life time license here or the Visa/PR?

Drivers license.

[samran]

Are you married? When I applied in 2004 I was told that you got the reduced fee of 100,000 baht if you have a Thai spouse, even if you are applying in the Business category. I didn't pay any money as a token of appreciation, though.

Is this correct???

Sorry to ask again (but my question was buried amongst other posts), could someone pls clarify the PR fee. I am a Class of 2008 Business Applicant who got married to a Thai lady in that same year. If my PR Application is successful, what is the fee?

Tks & apols for my impatience

if you are married, it should be half whatever the offial fee is.

[p_brownstone]

I'm curious Lop,

Did you by chance have some sort of visa extension back in 1969? The reason I ask is from reading Arkady's history of Thai immigration laws, any extension of visas then was effectively PR.

From memory, PR as we know it wasn't introduced till the mid to late 70's.

I stand to be corrected on that though.

Do you have a Link for Arkadys' Post Samran - I'd be interested to read it?

In my case I arrived on a Non Immigrant Visa on 17 November, 1971, I am hazy about the actual process but I seem to recall that I was told my Company automatically applied for my PR and at that time there was a limit of 200 applicants per Nationality - at least for Brits but I believe this number varied according to Nationality.

Whatever the system was at that time I received my Alien Registration Book (ใบสำคัญประจำคนต่างด้าว) dated 17 February, 1972 (exactly 3 months later so maybe it was automatically issued by Immigration on the date of Visa extension as you mention and had nothing to do with my Companys' application).

I don't recall when my Certificate of Residence (ใบสำคัญถิ่นที่อยู่) was issued since I do not have the original - this document is in its 4 or 5th incarnation since it is stamped with the Re-entry Visa and Endorsement and Immigration stamps whenever I leave / re-enter the Country so it fills up quite quickly.

Slightly off-topic but another advantage in "the old days" was that I received a lifetime Work Permit too, not only does it not need renewal but it is transferrable between Companies.

Patrick

[samran]

I'm curious Lop,

Did you by chance have some sort of visa extension back in 1969? The reason I ask is from reading Arkady's history of Thai immigration laws, any extension of visas then was effectively PR.

From memory, PR as we know it wasn't introduced till the mid to late 70's.

I stand to be corrected on that though.

Do you have a Link for Arkadys' Post Samran - I'd be interested to read it?

In my case I arrived on a Non Immigrant Visa on 17 November, 1971, I am hazy about the actual process but I seem to recall that I was told my Company automatically applied for my PR and at that time there was a limit of 200 applicants per Nationality - at least for Brits but I believe this number varied according to Nationality.

Whatever the system was at that time I received my Alien Registration Book (ใบสำคัญประจำคนต่างด้าว) dated 17 February, 1972 (exactly 3 months later so maybe it was automatically issued by Immigration on the date of Visa extension as you mention and had nothing to do with my Companys' application).

I don't recall when my Certificate of Residence (ใบสำคัญถิ่นที่อยู่) was issued since I do not have the original - this document is in its 4 or 5th incarnation since it is stamped with the Re-entry Visa and Endorsement and Immigration stamps whenever I leave / re-enter the Country so it fills up quite quickly.

Slightly off-topic but another advantage in "the old days" was that I received a lifetime Work Permit too, not only does it not need renewal but it is transferrable between Companies.

Patrick

Sorry Patrick, I'm unable to recall exactly where I saw it. As you know, there are a few of us who follow this particular subject matter, so it is simply I recall Arkady talking about at some point. Suspect it is there in Camerata's guide to PR somewhere. In any case, I rather suspect he'll be along shortly to elaborate/correct me!

[MacWalen]

"so that was 1.3million in lawyer fees? The remaining 200K or so was offical fees?"

1.2 million was taxes I paid. 100k various expenses. 200k government fees. I included taxes because normally you can pay a lot less tax if you just want to have a work permit. If you want to apply in a business category you will need to pay higher taxes and that will increase the total cost. Im my case it took years. If the immigration speeds things up it would be much cheaper but my wait was epic. Years and years of extensions but persevered and in the end successful.

[supaprik]

Ok well thanks for the explanation. I thought that what you have just received was "Thai Citizenship" not just residence. Where you can vote, collect the pensions etc but this is new news for me. This took 6 years and now you also need to apply for citizenship?

I am confused however congrats on your status (I think.)

PS: Can someone then explain what the difference is in Citizenship and this Permanent residence?

Easy, with permanent residency you do not need a visa of any kind anymore, you come and go as you please.

Only once every 5 years have to check in at the police department.

Not many more advantages, still need a workpermit if you want to work etc. Still cannot own land...

Citizenship is one step up from that. You become a Thai citizen and will get every right/duty any other Thai citizen has (some with a delay, you only get voting rights after 5 years).

No restricted occupations (can become a tuk tuk driver if you so please), can own land, companies and so forth without any of the restrictions foreigners have. For all legal means and purposes you are the same as any other Thai national...

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Thaivisa Connect App

Don't forget that you still need to do the annual pilgrimage to the immigration office to get a reentry permit. A multiple reentry will set you back 5k.

A multi entry permit was Thb 3,800 a couple of months ago?

Yep still is 3,800thb

[Mario2008]

People on Permanent Residence don't get a normal re-entry permit. If they want to travel abroad they need an endorcement, which costs 1,900 baht. Not sure if that is multiple.

[samran]

"so that was 1.3million in lawyer fees? The remaining 200K or so was offical fees?"

1.2 million was taxes I paid. 100k various expenses. 200k government fees. I included taxes because normally you can pay a lot less tax if you just want to have a work permit. If you want to apply in a business category you will need to pay higher taxes and that will increase the total cost. Im my case it took years. If the immigration speeds things up it would be much cheaper but my wait was epic. Years and years of extensions but persevered and in the end successful.

so are you saying in the 3 years before you applied you bumped your tax payments by 1.2m over and above what you'd normally pay so you'd meet the income criteria?

I don't quite follow why you'd pay more taxes than needed in the years following your application...

[MacWalen]

"so that was 1.3million in lawyer fees? The remaining 200K or so was offical fees?"

1.2 million was taxes I paid. 100k various expenses. 200k government fees. I included taxes because normally you can pay a lot less tax if you just want to have a work permit. If you want to apply in a business category you will need to pay higher taxes and that will increase the total cost. Im my case it took years. If the immigration speeds things up it would be much cheaper but my wait was epic. Years and years of extensions but persevered and in the end successful.

so are you saying in the 3 years before you applied you bumped your tax payments by 1.2m over and above what you'd normally pay so you'd meet the income criteria?

I don't quite follow why you'd pay more taxes than needed in the years following your application...

I paid taxes for 10 years. 3 years before I applied and 7 years after and I continue to pay them at this rate.