Thai Resident Application - Successful!

[DonW]

There used to be other advantages to permanent residence. For instance, I received a driving licence for cars and motorbikes that was valid for life, not one or five years. Unfortunately that was one of the benefits that was dropped around the time the fees went up. Thankfully, it was not retroactive so I still have my "life" driving licence.

I was also told I could buy a gun although I had no wish to. The best thing is that you never need to visit Immigration ever again unless you want to leave the country and then it's a brief, hassle-free trip to get an endorsement and re-entry visa. Renewing a police book every five years is a simple formality that costs 800 baht and takes very little time. You don't even have to do it yourself.

So, no need to renew a Thai driving license (mine is for five years and it takes 30 mins to renew), no need to do a visa again (once a year and the ball ache of 90 day reports) all this for 190,000 and a considerable number of man hours?

Do you need this to apply for Thai citizenship?

Cheers

[DonW]

Point taken Dave, so being more specific it is permanent residency. No more Thai visas needed. If I make a kid he will be Thai, taking a Thai queue at the airport immigration and few other things. In time being able to apply for Thai citizenship.

first congradulations.....You dont need permanent resisdency for you child to be thai. This assuming the mom is thai....

If it is not to personal what did this cost? Also did you have any surprises like having to sing songs?

Yankee, I had to pay taxes based on at least 80,000 Baht salary for the last 10 years which amounts to about 10,000 Baht per month, also time and money to prepare all the paperwork. On the day of receiving residency I also had to pay 191,400 Baht in government fee plus some money as a token of appreciation. It was a long process. I got accepted in the business category. I believe family category would be easier and cheaper. Did not have to sing a song but had to pass Thai exam but it was not a hard exam, just everyday chat. Also they talk to you in Thai each time I went there to make extensions and also this time.

How much was the backhander?

Cheers

[lopburi3]

You would still need to renew license if you drive anything.

If working in Thailand at wage of 80k or more per month for 3 years and on one year extensions of stay it would seem to make sense as provides a bit more security and used to be required for stepping on to citizenship (which does provide a lot more benefits).

[DonW]

There used to be other advantages to permanent residence. For instance, I received a driving licence for cars and motorbikes that was valid for life, not one or five years. Unfortunately that was one of the benefits that was dropped around the time the fees went up. Thankfully, it was not retroactive so I still have my "life" driving licence.

I was also told I could buy a gun although I had no wish to. The best thing is that you never need to visit Immigration ever again unless you want to leave the country and then it's a brief, hassle-free trip to get an endorsement and re-entry visa. Renewing a police book every five years is a simple formality that costs 800 baht and takes very little time. You don't even have to do it yourself.

So if I understand it correctly, it can be translated as a very expensive 5 year visa,which costed McWalen about 1.5 Million alltogether and had to jump through a lot of hoops.

Let me have my yearly retirement extension at 1900 Baht, and I don't care to go say hello at immigration every 90 days.

Yes, the total cost was around 1.5 million.

Jbrain, you have your retirement visa extension now but times are changing, we do not know what the future will bring, what will be retirement visa requirements in a few years time. It is 50 years old now but perhaps next year it will be changed to 55 or even 60-65. The amount of money you need to have may change also, you may need regular income etc. In any case you are still a guest here. Remember that there are more and more older people who retire and would like to live in Thailand. In time some of them might be considered a burden here. You never know. People are welcome to live and plan their life as they see fit.

I love Thailand and I have long term plan to live here so I do not like surprises. I got my PR and I can justify to myself the cost for what I got and I am happy and proud to have it now.

How did it cost 1.5 mill? Youde have paid that income tax irrespective.

[jayboy]

Why would you want the expense (1m++thb)? For what? Really, I am not seeing it. I see no benefit so help me out. You don't have to visit Immigration office??

I think there is a subset of guys that like to feel like they belong as much as possible, PR makes them warm and fuzzy. Another similar group are the document collectors: taben bahn, etc...

Not only loss of 1m but on interest, dividend, profit..

I have just received PR after a long wait.I was however fairly sure I would qualify once the logjam was unlocked.This was on the basis of excellent advice from Camerata and others, supplemented by working with a top flight Thai lawyer.

Over time there have been quite a few posts on the lines of that from bangkokburning.As far as one can tell these members who see no value in PR don't qualify for it anyway, so I am at a loss to understand why they get so heated about what is beyond their grasp.

[DonW]

Yes, and there are many other advantages.

a) Thai line at immigration;

easier access to credit;

c) no need to bring money in from overseas when purchasing condo;

d) I have heard -- though not confirmed -- that it exempts you from being restricted to owning in the 49% foreigner quota of condo buildings;

e) although you still need a work permit, requirements are much more lax (you can't work at all on a retirement visa).

f) it is a step towards citizenship;

g) offers much, much more security than any alternative visa class and protects you from possible capricious requirement changes in the future;

h) It is permanent. You never have to apply for another visa or face scrutiny every again.

So, really, all it offers is removing visa issues. Im not saying that is not a biggy but from the list, thats the only tangible advantage.

[DonW]

Nobody can doubt that the Thai passport service is one of the most efficent pubic services you'll see anywhere in the world

Oh yeh, you are definately Thai now Mate. LOL

Edited October 16, 2012 by DonW

[samran]

Nobody can doubt that the Thai passport service is one of the most efficent pubic services you'll see anywhere in the world

Oh yeh, you are definately Thai now Mate. LOL

You clearly have no idea do you?

[DonW]

Would Thailand really close the doors on foreigners and kick out those foreigners without PR or Citizenship?. Unlikely. And if it did I'd probably guess it would be because the country has become like North Korea and most foreigners (and thais for that matter) wouldn't want to stay anyway. On the other hand there are those that believe the $7000 for PR and citizenship is worth it for their own life plans.

Would a native born Thai think so? Who knows, but it's only the applicants own value judgement decision to decide if they want to spend that much money to reside here permanently, and the incurred costs associated with ongoing re-entry permits.

I'd don't know why there is so many negative comments back and forth on this topic?

Most of the poo-poo's come from people who would never qualify for either PR or citizenship in a million years. I think that pretty much answers your question.

How could one not qualify for PR (in a million years)? You just need three years wirth of extensions, right and not be a known crim.

[DonW]

Why would you want the expense (1m++thb)? For what? Really, I am not seeing it. I see no benefit so help me out. You don't have to visit Immigration office??

I think there is a subset of guys that like to feel like they belong as much as possible, PR makes them warm and fuzzy. Another similar group are the document collectors: taben bahn, etc...

Not only loss of 1m but on interest, dividend, profit..

I have just received PR after a long wait.I was however fairly sure I would qualify once the logjam was unlocked.This was on the basis of excellent advice from Camerata and others, supplemented by working with a top flight Thai lawyer.

Over time there have been quite a few posts on the lines of that from bangkokburning.As far as one can tell these members who see no value in PR don't qualify for it anyway, so I am at a loss to understand why they get so heated about what is beyond their grasp.

Two questions - can you PM me the name of your lawyer please? And the other, why would anyone NOT qualify for it, I thought it was just three years of extensions and no criminal record. I agree 100k to remove the ball ache of visas is a small price to pay.

[DonW]

Nobody can doubt that the Thai passport service is one of the most efficent pubic services you'll see anywhere in the world

Oh yeh, you are definately Thai now Mate. LOL

You clearly have no idea do you?

Well, that depends on what subject you are infering I am clueless in. Either you were attempting to be facetious or you were being serious - who can tell as it didnt elicit a chuckle.

[samran]

Nobody can doubt that the Thai passport service is one of the most efficent pubic services you'll see anywhere in the world

Oh yeh, you are definately Thai now Mate. LOL

You clearly have no idea do you?

Well, that depends on what subject you are infering I am clueless in. Either you were attempting to be facetious or you were being serious - who can tell as it didnt elicit a chuckle.

Applying for Thai passports. What did you think?

[DonW]

Ah well, touche, my old fruit. But you do come accross, at times, as a rather serious chap from your postings.

Edited October 16, 2012 by DonW

[jayboy]

Why would you want the expense (1m++thb)? For what? Really, I am not seeing it. I see no benefit so help me out. You don't have to visit Immigration office??

I think there is a subset of guys that like to feel like they belong as much as possible, PR makes them warm and fuzzy. Another similar group are the document collectors: taben bahn, etc...

Not only loss of 1m but on interest, dividend, profit..

I have just received PR after a long wait.I was however fairly sure I would qualify once the logjam was unlocked.This was on the basis of excellent advice from Camerata and others, supplemented by working with a top flight Thai lawyer.

Over time there have been quite a few posts on the lines of that from bangkokburning.As far as one can tell these members who see no value in PR don't qualify for it anyway, so I am at a loss to understand why they get so heated about what is beyond their grasp.

Two questions - can you PM me the name of your lawyer please? And the other, why would anyone NOT qualify for it, I thought it was just three years of extensions and no criminal record. I agree 100k to remove the ball ache of visas is a small price to pay.

.

I am sorry but he is a friend and I would only provide his name/firm to someone known personally to me.

As to ease of obtaining PR I am no expert.I do know that Immigration advises hopeless cases not to pursue.I agree it's not particularly difficult and my impression that the biggest stumbling block for those who fail is tax.

[NewlyMintedThai]

My advice: skip the lawyer and their outrageous fees and made up "facilitation payments". Do it yourself. I did.

[jayboy]

My advice: skip the lawyer and their outrageous fees and made up "facilitation payments". Do it yourself. I did.

If you have lots of time, not very much money and a low boredom threshold then you are correct.I have friends in these categories.For those like myself who doesn't belong in any of these categories, compounded by a natural indolence, hiring a good lawyer made sense.His fees were quite high but it was all utterly transparent.Incidentally someone made the wise comment on the forum that this field doesn't attract the best lawyers.Beware there are many shysters operating out there.

[NewlyMintedThai]

If you're implying that I have a shortage of cash and tons of time on my hands, you're wrong. I don't see how hiring a lawyer is going to save you much time -- only you can put the documents in order, and you have to appear at immigration in person at most steps along the way.

The immigration officials who helped me along appreciated that I was doing it myself and did everything they could to smooth the process fir me. More than one confided that they detest the scum-sucking lawyers who manage to convince hapless applicants that they are indispensable.

But...to each his own.

[jayboy]

If you're implying that I have a shortage of cash and tons of time on my hands, you're wrong. I don't see how hiring a lawyer is going to save you much time -- only you can put the documents in order, and you have to appear at immigration in person at most steps along the way.

The immigration officials who helped me along appreciated that I was doing it myself and did everything they could to smooth the process fir me. More than one confided that they detest the scum-sucking lawyers who manage to convince hapless applicants that they are indispensable.

But...to each his own.

I agree lawyers are not necessary in the process and equally there are some very dubious operators out there - so caution is appropriate.

It suited me however to employ a lawyer.

[DonW]

Why would you want the expense (1m++thb)? For what? Really, I am not seeing it. I see no benefit so help me out. You don't have to visit Immigration office??

I think there is a subset of guys that like to feel like they belong as much as possible, PR makes them warm and fuzzy. Another similar group are the document collectors: taben bahn, etc...

Not only loss of 1m but on interest, dividend, profit..

I have just received PR after a long wait.I was however fairly sure I would qualify once the logjam was unlocked.This was on the basis of excellent advice from Camerata and others, supplemented by working with a top flight Thai lawyer.

Over time there have been quite a few posts on the lines of that from bangkokburning.As far as one can tell these members who see no value in PR don't qualify for it anyway, so I am at a loss to understand why they get so heated about what is beyond their grasp.

Two questions - can you PM me the name of your lawyer please? And the other, why would anyone NOT qualify for it, I thought it was just three years of extensions and no criminal record. I agree 100k to remove the ball ache of visas is a small price to pay.

.

I am sorry but he is a friend and I would only provide his name/firm to someone known personally to me.

As to ease of obtaining PR I am no expert.I do know that Immigration advises hopeless cases not to pursue.I agree it's not particularly difficult and my impression that the biggest stumbling block for those who fail is tax.

OK no worries -= if he doesnt work on referrals then no worries. He must be very good.

[Time Traveller]

Why would you want the expense (1m++thb)? For what? Really, I am not seeing it. I see no benefit so help me out. You don't have to visit Immigration office??

I think there is a subset of guys that like to feel like they belong as much as possible, PR makes them warm and fuzzy. Another similar group are the document collectors: taben bahn, etc...

Not only loss of 1m but on interest, dividend, profit..

I have just received PR after a long wait.I was however fairly sure I would qualify once the logjam was unlocked.This was on the basis of excellent advice from Camerata and others, supplemented by working with a top flight Thai lawyer.

Over time there have been quite a few posts on the lines of that from bangkokburning.As far as one can tell these members who see no value in PR don't qualify for it anyway, so I am at a loss to understand why they get so heated about what is beyond their grasp.

Two questions - can you PM me the name of your lawyer please? And the other, why would anyone NOT qualify for it, I thought it was just three years of extensions and no criminal record. I agree 100k to remove the ball ache of visas is a small price to pay.

.

I am sorry but he is a friend and I would only provide his name/firm to someone known personally to me.

As to ease of obtaining PR I am no expert.I do know that Immigration advises hopeless cases not to pursue.I agree it's not particularly difficult and my impression that the biggest stumbling block for those who fail is tax.

No it's not tax. Anyone can pay tax. But you need to be working for a thai company (with WP) for 3yrs,, with minimum income requirements.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Time Traveller

[jayboy]

No it's not tax. Anyone can pay tax. But you need to be working for a thai company (with WP) for 3yrs,, with minimum income requirements.

I can only pass on what I have been told by experts, namely the inability to show personal tax forms with receipts (por ngor dor 50) is the main reason applicants are unable to progress.Obviously this implies working for the required period with valid work permit and visa.

[samran]

Ah well, touche, my old fruit. But you do come accross, at times, as a rather serious chap from your postings.

555

Indeed, sometimes too serious for my own good.

In all honesty though, having gone through the process for Australian and NZ passports, the Thai passport application is a two line 'form' followed by a swipe of the ID card and a digital photo.

[NewlyMintedThai]

With these additional tax payments made, what happened with the tax return each year as they would have given back any extra that paid above and beyond the proper calculation, surely this would have negated the whole idea of paying the extra in the first place.

He's talking about increasing your salary (which one has the latitude to do as a business owner) in order to make the threshold. NOT paying more than you owe.

One of the best things about being a Thai citizen for me now is not having to take any salary -- and thus having to pay no personal income taxes -- AT ALL. Just like the rich Thais do.

[Time Traveller]

With these additional tax payments made, what happened with the tax return each year as they would have given back any extra that paid above and beyond the proper calculation, surely this would have negated the whole idea of paying the extra in the first place.

He's talking about increasing your salary (which one has the latitude to do as a business owner) in order to make the threshold. NOT paying more than you owe.

One of the best things about being a Thai citizen for me now is not having to take any salary -- and thus having to pay no personal income taxes -- AT ALL. Just like the rich Thais do.

You don't need to be a citizen to do that. Anyone that owns their own business can.

[DonW]

So applying under a family approach youstill need the tax certs? What if I dont work and self support?

[Time Traveller]

So applying under a family approach youstill need the tax certs? What if I dont work and self support?

No matter what category, you need a job and 3yr history of working. The list of documents includes but not limited to:

Work permit,

Copy of work history from the Labor dept.

Company letter confirming employment, salary, position.

Copy of Corporate registration certificate, Company's Tax registration and it's VAT certificate.

Copy of Annual corporate income tax forms for your employer

Copy of your personal income tax returns for last 3 yrs

Copy of the last 12 months of monthly income tax withholding forms.

etc.etc.

All the requirements are listed on the forms on the immigration website.

[Mario2008]

Then you don't stand much of a change.

You must be a credit to Thai society, one way of showing that is by working and and earning a good income in Thailand itself. It is a major issue in determining if you will get PR or Thai nationality.

[NewlyMintedThai]

With these additional tax payments made, what happened with the tax return each year as they would have given back any extra that paid above and beyond the proper calculation, surely this would have negated the whole idea of paying the extra in the first place.

He's talking about increasing your salary (which one has the latitude to do as a business owner) in order to make the threshold. NOT paying more than you owe.

One of the best things about being a Thai citizen for me now is not having to take any salary -- and thus having to pay no personal income taxes -- AT ALL. Just like the rich Thais do.

You don't need to be a citizen to do that. Anyone that owns their own business can.

If you are a foreigner, you must be paid a certain amount in order to obtain a work permit. And, of course pay tax on that amount.

For Thais, naturally, no work permit or minimum salary (or any salary at all) is required.

[bangkokburning]

So to answer my own question - there really is no good reason.

Just like I thought.

Citizenship, I understand, this is the biggest bunch of nothing.

Again can somrone spell out the benefit please without the ad hominum attack?

[NewlyMintedThai]

So to answer my own question - there really is no good reason.

Just like I thought.

Citizenship, I understand, this is the biggest bunch of nothing.

Again can somrone spell out the benefit please without the ad hominum attack?

It's been done, numerous times already. If you think it's "nothing" to be able to own land, own your company, be free of visa and work permit hassles, and be a part of society with 100% rights rather than an outsider with less than 100%-- so be it.

I don't really know what more there is to say.