Thaksin Defends Controversial Rice-Pledging Programme

[AleG]

Nattatwut is probably in the know, there probably shouldn't be any rice in that warehouse, because despite being paid for, it never existed. LOL. The odds that they don't lose 20 to 30% of this rice over a one year period is very very slim. Moisture will migrate through the stacks of rice just like a sponge, as humidity rises and falls in the building.There is virtually no chance for the sacks at the bottom or the middle of the stack to breathe, so, inevitably, it at best changes quality, or at worst goes off. Of course you could rotate the stack, but who the hell is going to rotate 10mn tonnes of product in 50 kg sacks? In an ideal world, a huge proportion of this stuff would have been long gone. Alas, it is only going to get worse once the rainy season starts.

Oh, I wouldn't be surprised at all:

The opposition has established a link between the government's rice-pledging scheme and massive money laundering by producing evidence of a dummy company, individuals and old ghosts like President Agri Trading and Siam Indica, which could be found involved in non-existent rice deals.

...

Varong backed his case by saying that one of the buyers, Guangzhou-based GSSG Import and Export Corporation, was actually represented by a Thai man called Rathanit Sojirakul, who later authorised Phichit-based Nimon Rakdi to since a contract to purchase 5 million tonnes of rice on the company's behalf.

The Democrat pointed out that Rathanit was a close aide to Pheu Thai MP Rapeephan Phongruangrong, who is the wife of red-shirt leader Arisman Phongruangrong.

Who in there right mind would buy rice for 40% over market price and let it rot in a warehouse? Forest Gump "Stupid is as stupid does"

Who would do that? Someone that can use other people's money to buy the rice to ensure an electoral victory and maybe even skim a bit here and there. Amoral, even criminal, yes, but not stupid.

[Buchholz]

Next they will start paying farmers to not grow rice so they can save on storage costs and spoilage.

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When I first saw that statement i thought you were joking .... but the more I think about it's just the kind of "logic" the current govrnment wou;d try to pass off to a gulible public.

Like the terms, "valure added tax" or "negative cash income flow".

How Thaksin can say a program that buys rice at a high price and sells it at a lower price can "generate imcome" for Thailand I have yet to understand.

Perhaps I just know economics well enough?

Especially if that program DOESN'T buy rice from the farmers but from the MIDDLEMEN (who are free to pay any price they wish to the farmers and then are paid a gaurenteed higher than market price by the government).

Maybe that's a example of Thaksin-omics in action.?

Today's Bloomberg reports on Thaksin's math.... and also the World Bank's take on the "program"...

Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said in September the rice-purchase program should be extended for several more years.

Thaksin said that the program reaps economic gains that are about three times the cost, according to an interview in September.

According to the World Bank, the total cost may be as much as 440 billion baht ($14.8 billion) in 2012-2013.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-08/thai-rice-reserves-seen-at-record-as-un-flags-warehouse-shortage.html

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[Pimay1]

Come on Phil, gk,and mr. Mut defend your heroes. Tell us where we are missing the big picture and how this is so good for the poor Thai farmers and tax payers of Thailand.

[dcutman]

Next they will start paying farmers to not grow rice so they can save on storage costs and spoilage.

---------------------------

When I first saw that statement i thought you were joking .... but the more I think about it's just the kind of "logic" the current govrnment wou;d try to pass off to a gulible public.

Like the terms, "valure added tax" or "negative cash income flow".

How Thaksin can say a program that buys rice at a high price and sells it at a lower price can "generate imcome" for Thailand I have yet to understand.

Perhaps I just know economics well enough?

Especially if that program DOESN'T buy rice from the farmers but from the MIDDLEMEN (who are free to pay any price they wish to the farmers and then are paid a gaurenteed higher than market price by the government).

Maybe that's a example of Thaksin-omics in action.?

Today's Bloomberg reports on Thaksin's math.... and also the World Bank's take on the "program"...

Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said in September the rice-purchase program should be extended for several more years.

Thaksin said that the program reaps economic gains that are about three times the cost, according to an interview in September.

According to the World Bank, the total cost may be as much as 440 billion baht ($14.8 billion) in 2012-2013.

http://www.bloomberg...e-shortage.html

.

“fostered a considerable rise in unofficial inflows” from neighboring countries, the FAO said in the report. An estimated 750,000 tons in unofficial shipments was moved in, up from 400,000 tons a year.

Not only is Thailand one of the biggest producers of rice now they can claim the biggest storage supply of rice and now becoming a major importer as well. If they should ever start keeping records of stored, unsold rotten rice, Thailand will hold that record to.

[Ricardo]

“fostered a considerable rise in unofficial inflows” from neighboring countries, the FAO said in the report. An estimated 750,000 tons in unofficial shipments was moved in, up from 400,000 tons a year.

Not only is Thailand one of the biggest producers of rice now they can claim the biggest storage supply of rice and now becoming a major importer as well. If they should ever start keeping records of stored, unsold rotten rice, Thailand will hold that record to.

No wonder a neighbouring country, which in best-Thai-tradition I cannot name (but it begins with 'C'), smiles upon the government of PM-Yingluck, and considers the Big-Boss who thought-up the scam scheme an 'eternal-friend'.

And as a bonus, their own legal direct-exports also get a better price too, due to the serious reduction in supplies from the former number-1. A win-win situation !

[Melyn]

I believe Thailand must now be a net importer of rice

[scorecard]

Come on Phil, gk,and mr. Mut defend your heroes. Tell us where we are missing the big picture and how this is so good for the poor Thai farmers and tax payers of Thailand.

And how this is building: quality democracy, respect for the law, and equal justice for all, and how it will lift millions of Thais into a better quality of life from their own productivity...

[marchawkes]

Of rice... Mice & Men.

> Price subsidies guarantee farmers a minimum price for rice. Farmers are smiling!

> Recovering a part of this subsidy means hiking the price of Thai-rice. Makes imported brands - often better quality - cheaper. Shoppers r smiling!

> Countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, India, Pakistan....selling cheap, quality rice in Thailand see rice exports to T/land grow. Neighbors are smiling!

> Unsold Thai-rice builds up in warehouses. Recently lots more space was rented. Warehouse owners & trucking companies r smiling!

> Ageing rice which cannot be consumed is sold for animal produce/destroyed. Other service providers are smiling, whilst the govt. keeps paying!

> At the flick of a pen Thaksin has used taxpayer money to buy farmer support. Farmers r a key voting bloc.Thaksin (his sister) are smiling!

Thai taxpayers who are picking up the huge bill for this charade watch one family single-handedly destroy the rice culture of Thailand. Taxpayers are the only ones left unsmiling.

Edited February 9, 2013 by marchawkes

[Buchholz]

Thai Rice Reserves Seen at Record as UN Flags Warehouse Shortage

Rice stockpiles in Thailand will surge to a record this year driven by a government-price support program, according to the Food & Agriculture Organization, which said the country may be running out of room to store the staple. Milled holdings may jump 40 percent to 18.2 million metric tons in 2013, the Rome-based United Nations’ agency said in a report yesterday on the global rice market. The reserves, which averaged 5.4 million tons a year between 2008-2010, have increased from 7.8 million tons in 2011, according to the report.

There may be a “looming shortage of storage space,” the agency said. “Government stock-release plans have progressed slowly, further aggravating the supply situation for an export sector that is faced with little offshore demand,” it said. The FAO’s forecast compares with a Jan. 30 estimate from the Thai Rice Exporters Association, which put milled holdings at 17 million tons. Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said in September the rice-purchase program should be extended for several more years.

Bloomberg - February 8, 2013

18 million tons of stored rice?

No problem, United Nations.

What do you guys know, anyways?

You're not our father.

Permanent-Secretary for Commerce Ministry Vatchari Vimooktayon claimed yesterday that Thailand has the capacity to store 30 Million Tons of rice.... even though no where near that amount has ever actually been stored before.

Permanent-Secretary for Commerce Ministry Vatchari Vimooktayon

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[Ricardo]

Perhaps they should produce a sticker with a picture of a pretty girl in a bikini, to be put on every sack, to assist in sales ?

Sponsored by NokAir of course, but which pretty politician might be prepared to sacrifice her image, for the good of the party country ?

Perhaps a senior political-figure might volunteer ?

[Mosha]

If it's going rotten now, what's 30 million of stored rice going to achieve?

[Robby nz]

"If we manipulate the mechanism for two years, three years, then things will be moving naturally," Thaksin said. "The rice price in the world market is increasing.

So the idea is that withholding Thai rice from the world market it will force the price up.

Thaksin said the government had 17 million tonnes of paddy on hand, and stockpiles of milled rice were estimated at 4 million tonnes. Sales to Indonesia, Iraq and Ivory Coast, as well as other countries in the Middle East and Africa, would keep reserves down, he said.

Dont appear to have happened yet.

"I don't think we have much because we keep selling," he said, referring to the stockpile next year.

Who is this WE anyway what has this crim on the run really got to do with it?

He said he’s in no hurry to return to his native land, having grown accustomed to a life where he flies every three days on average

That could be the problem permanent jet lag.

[backtonormal]

Those rice farmers in the NE area where I live work very very hard for bare subsistence. Anything to help them other than hoping daughter marries a farang is great in my book. Where would Thailand be without the rice farmer...who will grow up to be one? Thaksin is not relevant to this truth. Like everyone else I am surprised he is talking and getting printed. Can't call him stupid..just getting old and not pertinent.

What would be good is if the millers and middle men didn't syphon off the money meant for the farmers. THEN it would be a good scheme.

I believe the article says 'unmilled rice' no millers needed. There is no middle men as all the mills are owned by the same few people...the rice exporters.

[backtonormal]

tulsathit RT @Phil_kttv:

Korn describes rice pledging as worst government policy ever.

"For every 100bt, only 30bt reaches farmers"

http://nationmultimedia.com/

Did he go on to explain the billions that went to the fertiliser manufacturers and did not increase the farmer profit one baht, but just maintained the same low margins......he should know plenty about this democrat methodology...yes?

Instead of hitting the "But the Democrats..." key, why don't you try to defend this PTP/Thaksin policy?

Remember. The government can't reveal how much they have sold and for what price. It is a secret.

They claim that the issue of selling rice is sensitive.

The big question remains, how can anybody defend the scam if the public is kept in the dark?

Come on 473ego, give it a try.

If it is the scam to end all scams why are PTP about to smash the Dems in Bangkok. And remember they will be the educated middle classe voting. Kinda rips a new 4rs3hole in your statement..dont you think

[backtonormal]

Can the Thaksin haters provide any independant journalism that shows this rice scheme is a scam..if not pipe down

[Ricardo]

Can the Thaksin haters provide any independant journalism that shows this rice scheme is a scam..if not pipe down

The OP quotes disgraced former-PM Thaksin describing the scheme as an attempt to manipulate the global-market, surely that would count ?

Or the many cases of corruption, which the government admits ?

The strange way the ministry stopped publishing figures, when it all went horribly wrong ?

The BAAC getting increasingly strident, in demanding that the government pass them more of the money, to reimburse them for what they've already paid-out ?

The Finance Minister calling for sales to be urgently accelerated, as he needs the cashflow, perhaps ?

Just how much proof can anyone require ...

[Seismic]

Can the Thaksin haters provide any independant journalism that shows this rice scheme is a scam..if not pipe down

Well perhaps its not a scam at all, perhaps they are stupid enough to actually believe that they can unload this rice on world markets at a large premium. If that is the case then Thailand is is much more trouble than anyone thought.

[scorecard]

Apologies,,, earlier part of the thread cut to get past quotes rules

If it is the scam to end all scams why are PTP about to smash the Dems in Bangkok. And remember they will be the educated middle classe voting. Kinda rips a new 4rs3hole in your statement..dont you think

All / the majority of Bkk voters are educated middle class?

Get real.

[Buchholz]

Thai rice export plunges due to weak Euro

BANGKOK, 24 February 2013 (NNT) Thailand's rice exports to European Union (EU) continue to decline due to the depreciation of the Euro and the higher prices of Thai rice.

Mr. Tikhumporn Natvaratat, Deputy Director-General of the Department of Foreign Trade, Commerce Ministry, revealed that Thai rice exports to the EU have been on a decline due to sluggish EU economic conditions and a weaker Euro. As a result, consumers in Eurozone have suffered a decrease in purchasing power.

Mr. Tikhumporn added that another factor causing the rice exports to drop is higher prices when compared with other countries, especially Cambodia which has enjoyed import tax privileges from the EU under the Generalized System of Preferences (GSP).

http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/newsen/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNECO5602250010001

[marstons]

Next they will start paying farmers to not grow rice so they can save on storage costs and spoilage.

Thats what the EU and USA do, crazy when many in the world starving

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/05/25/demand-strong-for-government-program-paying-farmers-not-to-plant-crops/

[dcutman]

Thai rice export plunges due to weak Euro

BANGKOK, 24 February 2013 (NNT) Thailand's rice exports to European Union (EU) continue to decline due to the depreciation of the Euro and the higher prices of Thai rice.

Mr. Tikhumporn Natvaratat, Deputy Director-General of the Department of Foreign Trade, Commerce Ministry, revealed that Thai rice exports to the EU have been on a decline due to sluggish EU economic conditions and a weaker Euro. As a result, consumers in Eurozone have suffered a decrease in purchasing power.

Mr. Tikhumporn added that another factor causing the rice exports to drop is higher prices when compared with other countries, especially Cambodia which has enjoyed import tax privileges from the EU under the Generalized System of Preferences (GSP).

http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/newsen/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNECO5602250010001

I think it safe to assume the Thai delegation that went to the EU earlier this month did not fair so well, pushing the high quality Thai rice.

[Buchholz]

Thai rice export plunges due to weak Euro

BANGKOK, 24 February 2013 (NNT) Thailand's rice exports to European Union (EU) continue to decline due to the depreciation of the Euro and the higher prices of Thai rice.

Mr. Tikhumporn Natvaratat, Deputy Director-General of the Department of Foreign Trade, Commerce Ministry, revealed that Thai rice exports to the EU have been on a decline due to sluggish EU economic conditions and a weaker Euro. As a result, consumers in Eurozone have suffered a decrease in purchasing power.

Mr. Tikhumporn added that another factor causing the rice exports to drop is higher prices when compared with other countries, especially Cambodia which has enjoyed import tax privileges from the EU under the Generalized System of Preferences (GSP).

http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/newsen/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNECO5602250010001

I think it safe to assume the Thai delegation that went to the EU earlier this month did not fair so well, pushing the high quality Thai rice.

.

Plunging exports with mountains of rice stockpiles in ever-growing tonnage, some now of it rotting.

Thaksin Defends Controversial Rice-Pledging Programme

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[rubl]

I'm really surprised our member buchholz seems to have mellowed a bit. He only quoted some lines of the article which also had this gem:

"In spite of this, the Commerce Ministry will continue with its strategy to place more importance on export value more than volume while raising Thai rice prices to match with its superior quality."

It seems the Commerce Ministry thinks that soon, very soon now foreigners will see the superior quality of Thai rice and will come in droves to 'please may I buy some?'.

[bigbamboo]

I'm really surprised our member buchholz seems to have mellowed a bit. He only quoted some lines of the article which also had this gem:

"In spite of this, the Commerce Ministry will continue with its strategy to place more importance on export value more than volume while raising Thai rice prices to match with its superior quality."

It seems the Commerce Ministry thinks that soon, very soon now foreigners will see the superior quality of Thai rice and will come in droves to 'please may I buy some?'.

It seems to me that the Commerce Ministry thinks foreigners are as stupid as they are.

[dcutman]

I'm really surprised our member buchholz seems to have mellowed a bit. He only quoted some lines of the article which also had this gem:

"In spite of this, the Commerce Ministry will continue with its strategy to place more importance on export value more than volume while raising Thai rice prices to match with its superior quality."

It seems the Commerce Ministry thinks that soon, very soon now foreigners will see the superior quality of Thai rice and will come in droves to 'please may I buy some?'.

Just to get them coming back, after this drought of quality rice on the world market over the last year and a half. It might require some extra incentives. A large discount is just not possible as we all know. But could sweeten the deal with some "vintage" rice or there is also an option of 10,000 tons of "vintage" rubber. just discovered from Another program Thaksin supports.

Edited February 25, 2013 by dcutman

[rubl]

Maybe the 'rice to sato rice wine' could be expanded. Instead of letting the wine mature / age, we could start with matured / aged rice instead. Surely there's an opportunity for Thailand to be a hub for something in this :-)

[Ricardo]

Distill the rotting-rice, to produce biofuel for power-stations when gas-supplies falter, perhaps ? Another cunning PTP-plan !

The weaker-Euro argument would apply equally to the Dollar & Sterling as the Thai-Baht strengthens, the price farang-customers will pay to buy Thai-rice falls, increasing the loss which the government will make on any eventual sale.

But at least this can be blamed on farangs, who after-all don't really understand Thailand, or follow the Big-Boss's orders about happily paying a premium for the privilege of buying from here, rather than cheaper rice from his 'eternal-friend' and other suppliers, or competitors as we call them, back in the real-World.

[473geo]

I'm really surprised our member buchholz seems to have mellowed a bit. He only quoted some lines of the article which also had this gem:

"In spite of this, the Commerce Ministry will continue with its strategy to place more importance on export value more than volume while raising Thai rice prices to match with its superior quality."

It seems the Commerce Ministry thinks that soon, very soon now foreigners will see the superior quality of Thai rice and will come in droves to 'please may I buy some?'.

It seems to me that the Commerce Ministry thinks foreigners are as stupid as they are.

Perhaps they view the first 10 comments in the 'political' Tvisa threads....