Crackdown On Visiting Foreign Charter Yachts In Thai Waters: Phuket

[impulse]

Nope, they not talking about comercial yachts, coming with guests from outside.

They talking about companies with a 'private non thai' boat/yacht in Thai waters, picking up groups from the airport and counting there business as 'not Thai related' business.

Also, there are not so many operators, cruising into Thai waters from outside, with customers on board, already.

But in thev past, there have been a couple, starting from Phuket to the Andaman Isl. or Burma, (p.ex), and doing so, with 'private boat' status.

That's why I think, it's all about the 'Freud' in the headline! Afaik, 'they' never complained, as long some 'taxes' went into the right directions!

Perhaps we were reading different articles?

"The budget includes installing radar stations fitted with GPS satellite vehicle tracking management systems to monitor yachts arriving in Thai territorial waters and the islands around Phuket."

"Currently, the only way the Marine Department knows of vessels arriving in the area is if a random patrol encounters them on the high seas or if the captain presents himself and his vessel to the authorities to declare that he has arrived in Thailand, he added."

I don't know why they'd need radar with GPS to track outfitters picking up customers at a domestic airport.

I'd be interested in hearing about any sub-plots and ulterior motives, but the article paints a picture of a pretty reasonable program on its face.

Edited September 26, 2012 by impulse

[noob7]

Nope, they not talking about comercial yachts, coming with guests from outside.

They talking about companies with a 'private non thai' boat/yacht in Thai waters, picking up groups from the airport and counting there business as 'not Thai related' business.

Also, there are not so many operators, cruising into Thai waters from outside, with customers on board, already.

But in thev past, there have been a couple, starting from Phuket to the Andaman Isl. or Burma, (p.ex), and doing so, with 'private boat' status.

That's why I think, it's all about the 'Freud' in the headline! Afaik, 'they' never complained, as long some 'taxes' went into the right directions!

Perhaps we were reading different articles?

"The budget includes installing radar stations fitted with GPS satellite vehicle tracking management systems to monitor yachts arriving in Thai territorial waters and the islands around Phuket."

"Currently, the only way the Marine Department knows of vessels arriving in the area is if a random patrol encounters them on the high seas or if the captain presents himself and his vessel to the authorities to declare that he has arrived in Thailand, he added."

I don't know why they'd need radar with GPS to track outfitters picking up customers at a domestic airport.

I'd be interested in hearing about any sub-plots and ulterior motives, but the article paints a picture of a pretty reasonable program on its face.

Maybe I got mislead by the 'Freud", and by the amount of 'private' non Thai boats/yachts, that are busy from Phuket harbour's! And by the point '... the crackdown will not affect Thai-registered vessels.", doesn't matter, that they would have to inform the officials also, after coming back to Thai waters!

I see your point!

[blackthorn2005]

Phuket Marine office chief Phuripat Theerakulpisut means business He can't een sort out the jet skis, he was ordered to leave a recent Governors meeting for the Honorary Consuls.

Edited September 26, 2012 by blackthorn2005

[Sateev]

Phuket Marine office chief Phuripat Theerakulpisut means business He can't een sort out the jet skis, he was ordered to leave a recent Governors meeting for the Honorary Consuls.

And he looks like a thug/taxi driver.

[Foggy Bottom]

So what many posters are saying is that ......

If I have a game farm thats fenced in by me, maintained by me and financed by me, But I don't have the right to an portion of the income from an outside guy that charters helicopter tours (game watching) over my farm. He takes off and land on an airfield outside my farm and due to this I don't have a right to a portion of the income, although he is using my game to generate an income. Think again please.

Nah - head to one of the border markets, speak to the guy sitting beside the water fountain, and buy some surface to air hand launched missiles - simples.

[KarenBravo]

I don't know why they'd need radar with GPS to track outfitters picking up customers at a domestic airport.

He might have been confused and meant radar with AIS.

[David006]

really don't understand..what the is the point of radar and GPS ..all major ports should have the radar anyways would not have thought one could track vessels using GPS unless those vessels' GPS are programmed or registered with the tracking system?

All vessels arriving in Thai waters are required to check in at Customs and immigration registering the vessel crew and pasengers?

If they think they are not doing so it is only necessary to patrol mariners/berths and fuel outlets.

Think there is more to this than is stated....one wonders how/if Customs and Immigration are currently handling policing of importation of illegal substances and smuggling in general by all vessels entering Thai waters?

[noob7]

really don't understand..what the is the point of radar and GPS ..all major ports should have the radar anyways would not have thought one could track vessels using GPS unless those vessels' GPS are programmed or registered with the tracking system?

All vessels arriving in Thai waters are required to check in at Customs and immigration registering the vessel crew and pasengers?

If they think they are not doing so it is only necessary to patrol mariners/berths and fuel outlets.

Think there is more to this than is stated....one wonders how/if Customs and Immigration are currently handling policing of importation of illegal substances and smuggling in general by all vessels entering Thai waters?

Only an issue if this happened

... avoid paying tax to Thai officials...

[stevenl]

really don't understand..what the is the point of radar and GPS ..all major ports should have the radar anyways would not have thought one could track vessels using GPS unless those vessels' GPS are programmed or registered with the tracking system?

All vessels arriving in Thai waters are required to check in at Customs and immigration registering the vessel crew and pasengers?

If they think they are not doing so it is only necessary to patrol mariners/berths and fuel outlets.

Think there is more to this than is stated....one wonders how/if Customs and Immigration are currently handling policing of importation of illegal substances and smuggling in general by all vessels entering Thai waters?

The problem is this: there is a boat with lets say Singaporean divers leaving from Langkawi. They go diving and snorkeling in the Southern Andaman Sea, nearly exclusively in Thai waters. They do not come into any harbour and are not registered, they are not paying anything. They may go to Maya Bay for a visit and go to Phi Phi on shore for an evening, but that's it. Nobody sees them they don't benefit the Thai economy at all, but do benefit themselves from Thai resources.

So yes, IMO they should pay for that.

[David006]

really don't understand..what the is the point of radar and GPS ..all major ports should have the radar anyways would not have thought one could track vessels using GPS unless those vessels' GPS are programmed or registered with the tracking system?

All vessels arriving in Thai waters are required to check in at Customs and immigration registering the vessel crew and pasengers?

If they think they are not doing so it is only necessary to patrol mariners/berths and fuel outlets.

Think there is more to this than is stated....one wonders how/if Customs and Immigration are currently handling policing of importation of illegal substances and smuggling in general by all vessels entering Thai waters?

The problem is this: there is a boat with lets say Singaporean divers leaving from Langkawi. They go diving and snorkeling in the Southern Andaman Sea, nearly exclusively in Thai waters. They do not come into any harbour and are not registered, they are not paying anything. They may go to Maya Bay for a visit and go to Phi Phi on shore for an evening, but that's it. Nobody sees them they don't benefit the Thai economy at all, but do benefit themselves from Thai resources.

So yes, IMO they should pay for that.

ok..I see .....of course they should contribute agree for sure

......assuming they locate these vessels investment in a few more patrol boats would be necessary also.

Indonesia requires a cruising permit before entering their waters.

Suspect that in the unlikely event that a foreign offending vessel is actually boarded.....you know the rest...555

[noob7]

really don't understand..what the is the point of radar and GPS ..all major ports should have the radar anyways would not have thought one could track vessels using GPS unless those vessels' GPS are programmed or registered with the tracking system?

All vessels arriving in Thai waters are required to check in at Customs and immigration registering the vessel crew and pasengers?

If they think they are not doing so it is only necessary to patrol mariners/berths and fuel outlets.

Think there is more to this than is stated....one wonders how/if Customs and Immigration are currently handling policing of importation of illegal substances and smuggling in general by all vessels entering Thai waters?

The problem is this: there is a boat with lets say Singaporean divers leaving from Langkawi. They go diving and snorkeling in the Southern Andaman Sea, nearly exclusively in Thai waters. They do not come into any harbour and are not registered, they are not paying anything. They may go to Maya Bay for a visit and go to Phi Phi on shore for an evening, but that's it. Nobody sees them they don't benefit the Thai economy at all, but do benefit themselves from Thai resources.

So yes, IMO they should pay for that.

mmmh :http://www.imo.org/Pages/home.aspx

Why should they pay?

(couldn't resist)

[stevenl]

mmmh :http://www.imo.org/Pages/home.aspx

Why should they pay?

(couldn't resist)

I presume on that website is something related to this? If so, maybe post a link to that specific page.

[noob7]

mmmh :http://www.imo.org/Pages/home.aspx

Why should they pay?

(couldn't resist)

I presume on that website is something related to this? If so, maybe post a link to that specific page.

you wrote: 'So yes, IMO they should pay for that.'

IMO!!!!!

Edited September 27, 2012 by noob7

[tinfoilhat]

perhaps they should look at the vast majority of the population that have NEVER filed a return.

[stingray]

I doubt its for yachts that are privately used. Once you start taking on passengers and making a buck they want their cut.

They should take their cut from the local Boats (Speed boads, diving boats, sailing boats, jet skies, ferries, etc). I don't think that they pay any taxes at all. Boats are not my business, but sometime i think we shouln't stay here, doing business and create any jobs at all. They not really want us, just our money and i think they not deserve it!

I just had a nice holiday in Europe, spend some time on the mediterian coast (Riviera) on Italy and South France and i regonized how clean and nice everything is there (no smeling rubbish containers and smelling diesel taxies), in compare to here.

BTW, There are many other thousend islands around the phillipines, which are much nicer to visit then the islands here.

Edited September 28, 2012 by stingray

[impulse]

They should take their cut from the local Boats (Speed boads, diving boats, sailing boats, jet skies, ferries, etc). I don't think that they pay any taxes at all.

Local boat-

Paid VAT and duties on the purchase of the boat.

Pay to register the boat.

Paid VAT and taxes on the fuel they bought this morning (and employed some fraction of a local person in the Thai oil and distribution business- who spends their money locally)

Paid their local employees, along with income tax- and pumped a bunch of money into the local economy through paying their employees, who have families that spend the money and... pay VAT on what they buy..

Have to be licensed through TAT, and pay their fees to support tourism in Thailand

Pay the dock where they keep their boat, who pays taxes on their income from dock fees and VAT on the cost of building that dock.

Pay income tax on their profits from taking the tourists out to go diving, fishing, snorkeling.

Pay local suppliers to maintain and repair the boat- who pump money into the Thai economy.

I'm not sure if they pay any portion of their fares from operation as a tax. I'd be curious.

You can argue about whether these fees are collected, or whether these locals pay these taxes, but that's another issue.

Foreign operated vessels sneaking into Thai waters pay into Thailand's economy? Pretty much zero.

Edited September 29, 2012 by impulse

[stevenl]

I'm not sure if they pay any portion of their fares from operation as a tax. I'd be curious.

2% withholding tax. Also don't forget the required insurances to operate the vessel.

[steelepulse]

>>Indonesia requires a cruising permit before entering their waters.

There's the simple solution. Require a permit for foreign flagged vessels to enter Thai waters. Certainly something like this could be done online. Unfortunately simple and solution don't go hand in hand when it comes to collecting money here, especially when personal gain often comes with money collection.

[noob7]

Local boat-

Paid VAT and duties on the purchase of the boat.

Pay to register the boat.

Paid VAT and taxes on the fuel they bought this morning (and employed some fraction of a local person in the Thai oil and distribution business- who spends their money locally)

Paid their local employees, along with income tax- and pumped a bunch of money into the local economy through paying their employees, who have families that spend the money and... pay VAT on what they buy..

Have to be licensed through TAT, and pay their fees to support tourism in Thailand

Pay the dock where they keep their boat, who pays taxes on their income from dock fees and VAT on the cost of building that dock.

Pay income tax on their profits from taking the tourists out to go diving, fishing, snorkeling.

Pay local suppliers to maintain and repair the boat- who pump money into the Thai economy.

I'm not sure if they pay any portion of their fares from operation as a tax. I'd be curious.

You can argue about whether these fees are collected, or whether these locals pay these taxes, but that's another issue.

Foreign operated vessels sneaking into Thai waters pay into Thailand's economy? Pretty much zero.

Minimum, if Farang 'Co'owned:

and can't avoid, paying a 'tax' to the Thai official in charge of this process

[stevenl]

Local boat-

Paid VAT and duties on the purchase of the boat.

Pay to register the boat.

Paid VAT and taxes on the fuel they bought this morning (and employed some fraction of a local person in the Thai oil and distribution business- who spends their money locally)

Paid their local employees, along with income tax- and pumped a bunch of money into the local economy through paying their employees, who have families that spend the money and... pay VAT on what they buy..

Have to be licensed through TAT, and pay their fees to support tourism in Thailand

Pay the dock where they keep their boat, who pays taxes on their income from dock fees and VAT on the cost of building that dock.

Pay income tax on their profits from taking the tourists out to go diving, fishing, snorkeling.

Pay local suppliers to maintain and repair the boat- who pump money into the Thai economy.

I'm not sure if they pay any portion of their fares from operation as a tax. I'd be curious.

You can argue about whether these fees are collected, or whether these locals pay these taxes, but that's another issue.

Foreign operated vessels sneaking into Thai waters pay into Thailand's economy? Pretty much zero.

Minimum, if Farang 'Co'owned:

and can't avoid, paying a 'tax' to the Thai official in charge of this process

Yes, can easily be avoided.

[noob7]

Local boat-

Paid VAT and duties on the purchase of the boat.

Pay to register the boat.

Paid VAT and taxes on the fuel they bought this morning (and employed some fraction of a local person in the Thai oil and distribution business- who spends their money locally)

Paid their local employees, along with income tax- and pumped a bunch of money into the local economy through paying their employees, who have families that spend the money and... pay VAT on what they buy..

Have to be licensed through TAT, and pay their fees to support tourism in Thailand

Pay the dock where they keep their boat, who pays taxes on their income from dock fees and VAT on the cost of building that dock.

Pay income tax on their profits from taking the tourists out to go diving, fishing, snorkeling.

Pay local suppliers to maintain and repair the boat- who pump money into the Thai economy.

I'm not sure if they pay any portion of their fares from operation as a tax. I'd be curious.

You can argue about whether these fees are collected, or whether these locals pay these taxes, but that's another issue.

Foreign operated vessels sneaking into Thai waters pay into Thailand's economy? Pretty much zero.

Minimum, if Farang 'Co'owned:

and can't avoid, paying a 'tax' to the Thai official in charge of this process

Yes, can easily be avoided.

So you telling me, basics can change? And you get your papers as quickly, as the guy, 'taxing' the officials bank account of a unknown person in the very north-east of Thailand? Without any trouble? Amazing!

[stevenl]

Local boat-

Paid VAT and duties on the purchase of the boat.

Pay to register the boat.

Paid VAT and taxes on the fuel they bought this morning (and employed some fraction of a local person in the Thai oil and distribution business- who spends their money locally)

Paid their local employees, along with income tax- and pumped a bunch of money into the local economy through paying their employees, who have families that spend the money and... pay VAT on what they buy..

Have to be licensed through TAT, and pay their fees to support tourism in Thailand

Pay the dock where they keep their boat, who pays taxes on their income from dock fees and VAT on the cost of building that dock.

Pay income tax on their profits from taking the tourists out to go diving, fishing, snorkeling.

Pay local suppliers to maintain and repair the boat- who pump money into the Thai economy.

I'm not sure if they pay any portion of their fares from operation as a tax. I'd be curious.

You can argue about whether these fees are collected, or whether these locals pay these taxes, but that's another issue.

Foreign operated vessels sneaking into Thai waters pay into Thailand's economy? Pretty much zero.

Minimum, if Farang 'Co'owned:

and can't avoid, paying a 'tax' to the Thai official in charge of this process

Yes, can easily be avoided.

So you telling me, basics can change? And you get your papers as quickly, as the guy, 'taxing' the officials bank account of a unknown person in the very north-east of Thailand? Without any trouble? Amazing!

No, I'm telling you paying a tax to the Thai official in charge of this process can (and IMO should) be avoided.

[noob7]

Minimum, if Farang 'Co'owned:

and can't avoid, paying a 'tax' to the Thai official in charge of this process

Yes, can easily be avoided.

So you telling me, basics can change? And you get your papers as quickly, as the guy, 'taxing' the officials bank account of a unknown person in the very north-east of Thailand? Without any trouble? Amazing!

No, I'm telling you paying a tax to the Thai official in charge of this process can (and IMO should) be avoided.

I totally agree with you here! I mean, the 'should' part of your statement.

The can-part, I know a bit different.

This 'can avoid' has almost every time something to do with your Thai shareholders. If they are well known, or knowing someone, with connections! But if you have enough time or arguments (if i do not get the license now, I have to cancel trips. Also I have to fire people, b/c no trips, no income, no payment. But all papers are ok, so it will be not our companies fault), and a Thai managing this talking for you, ;-), you may avoid the 'but 50.000 not much for you, boat not go, a lot more' discussion!

[David006]

I don't know why they'd need radar with GPS to track outfitters picking up customers at a domestic airport.

He might have been confused and meant radar with AIS.

hmmm..don't know that it will tell 'em where flagged though?

Gotta think that they could not find their etc.......all in all a rather silly announcement.....

...if the technology was available to crackdown as they predict it would already be in use globally..would not need EPIRBS maybe......what next?.. a frickin tractor beam...

[impulse]

hmmm..don't know that it will tell 'em where flagged though?

...if the technology was available to crackdown as they predict it would already be in use globally..would not need EPIRBS maybe......what next?.. a frickin tractor beam...

The technology is easy. Use a radar system that records boat locations (and movement) to disk.

When you see a boat enter Thai waters and not go directly to a proper immigration control station, you send a boat to check them out. If they have proper documents, no harm, no foul. If they're offloading contraband or pursuing commercial activities without proper permissions, you got 'em.

It's done every day all over the world.

[David006]

hmmm..don't know that it will tell 'em where flagged though?

...if the technology was available to crackdown as they predict it would already be in use globally..would not need EPIRBS maybe......what next?.. a frickin tractor beam...

The technology is easy. Use a radar system that records boat locations (and movement) to disk.

When you see a boat enter Thai waters and not go directly to a proper immigration control station, you send a boat to check them out. If they have proper documents, no harm, no foul. If they're offloading contraband or pursuing commercial activities without proper permissions, you got 'em.

It's done every day all over the world.

exactly..I was really referring to ID technology ie owner, reg etc. ....trouble is electronics has an off button.

The answer is really more patrol vessels or perhaps issuance of transponders to all legal operators like those used on tollways in cars ...see 'em on radar, look for transponder ID code ..no/wrong ID ..send vessel...Hey we can't solve their problems ! Beer time

[cloudhopper]

hmmm..don't know that it will tell 'em where flagged though?

...if the technology was available to crackdown as they predict it would already be in use globally..would not need EPIRBS maybe......what next?.. a frickin tractor beam...

The technology is easy. Use a radar system that records boat locations (and movement) to disk.

When you see a boat enter Thai waters and not go directly to a proper immigration control station, you send a boat to check them out. If they have proper documents, no harm, no foul. If they're offloading contraband or pursuing commercial activities without proper permissions, you got 'em.

It's done every day all over the world.

It is over 100 nautical miles from the border to Phuket where the designated yacht check-in is and there are dozens of islands along that route. Unless every yacht is using an AIS transponder, which does not use radar at all, tracking along that route is impossible. If they ever actually put a radar up at Chalong it will be filled with hundreds of targets and they will not be able to tell a yacht from a fishing trawler.

Edited September 30, 2012 by cloudhopper

[Outlaw Cambodia]

I just googled "crack down in Thailand"

...there are alot of such Activities...

Time is running

Bad Boys - what you gonna do, when the come for YOU?

[noob7]

I just googled "crack down in Thailand"

...there are alot of such Activities...

Maybe that is, b/c Thailand is the world hub for such activities?

I mean, every crackdown that isn't cracking something down needs another supposed crackdown, a bit later. Keeps people in jobs and the money flow alive!