How Frequently Should The Oil Be Changed In A 2007 Or Newer Car?

[Thailaw]

I have a 2007 Toyota car with just under 50,000 km on it. I have the oil and oil filter changed at Shell or Petronas every 5,000 km. Both stations sell oil which is recommended for 3, 5 or 7,000 kms at increasing prices. I buy the oil recommended for 5,000 kms. I have read that changing motor oil every 3,000 miles is a hold over from what our parents told us, and that with modern cars and engine oils, the motor oil does not need to be changed so frequently. A recent article I saw said that such frequent oil changes are a "waste" and environmentally unfriendly, and that oil should be changed every 7,500 miles (about 12,000 km). Are the 3 "qualities" of oil with a range of recommended km use a gimic that the oil companies use to encourage you to pay more for oil? Is there any real difference in the oils being offered? Which oil is best (from a price/quality perspective) and how long (how many kms) can it be used between changes? I have always viewed frequent oil changes as the cheapest/best preventative maintenance (I change the oil in my motorcycles every 1,000 kms), but now I not sure of the real benefit. Thanks,

[IMHO]

RTFM

Whatever intervals the OEM will honor warranty on are probably a good guide

[ThailandBert]

Changing your oil and filter every 5000km is what I do. both bike car and truck. Keep your fluids good and today's modern engines will run for ever.

[sotsira]

Depends on the way you use the car, frequent starting and stopping the engine when cold

deteriorates the oil as fuel can bypass the bores and mix with the oil subsequently thinning down

the oil lubrication qualities.

Some synthetic oils last longer than standard oils, but make sure you put the correct grade oil

recommended by the manufacturer.

Changing the oil frequently especially when it becomes black will prolong the life span of the engine,

if you look at it from an environmental point of view then you shouldn't own a car.

[transam]

Mineral oil 5000km

Semi-synthetic 10000km

Synthetic 15000km

Frequent Filter change is important especially if of small dimensions.

BUT, if cash is no problem then as often as you like.

[John 1]

Mineral oil 5000km

Semi-synthetic 10000km

Synthetic 15000km

Frequent Filter change is important especially if of small dimensions.

BUT, if cash is no problem then as often as you like.

Are you saying all Toyota diesel engine like Vigo and Fortune they have small filter to change often. They are half the size of a Mitsu. I would say filters are rated for the regular oil change intervals.

[transam]

Mineral oil 5000km

Semi-synthetic 10000km

Synthetic 15000km

Frequent Filter change is important especially if of small dimensions.

BUT, if cash is no problem then as often as you like.

Are you saying all Toyota diesel engine like Vigo and Fortune they have small filter to change often. They are half the size of a Mitsu. I would say filters are rated for the regular oil change intervals.

''My'' opinion from stuff is the Vigo filter is very small. On stuff l fooled around with in UK l sourced larger filters that fitted, being same thread and seal size. Even sourced ones with no internal by-pass. Most filters have an in built by-pass so if filter is clogged the valve opens and stuffs crap through the engine.

[Thailaw]

Mineral oil 5000km

Semi-synthetic 10000km

Synthetic 15000km

Frequent Filter change is important especially if of small dimensions.

BUT, if cash is no problem then as often as you like.

Noted. All of the oils I identified sold by Shell and Pitronas are mineral oils. I have never used synthetic oils in an vehicle I have owned, except my '99 Corvette (LS1, full race), which always got the best. So, is the 3, 5 and 7,000 distinction on these oils just nonsense? I,e., will the 3,000 km oil be just as good as the 5,000 km oil for an every 5,000 km oil change?

[sotsira]

Noted. All of the oils I identified sold by Shell and Pitronas are mineral oils. I have never used synthetic oils in an vehicle I have owned, except my '99 Corvette (LS1, full race), which always got the best. So, is the 3, 5 and 7,000 distinction on these oils just nonsense? I,e., will the 3,000 km oil be just as good as the 5,000 km oil for an every 5,000 km oil change?

No, it doesn't work like that, it could take some drivers 2 years to do 5,000km,

and others only 6months.

That doesn't mean you should wait 2 years to change the oil, you should still change it once it loses it's

lubricating qualities, which is when it becomes black and thinned out.

Pull the dipstick out and visually inspect it and rub it between your fingers to feel it, this is the best way to know

when the oil needs changing, mileage intervals stated by the manufacturers are just guide lines.

Also different engines wear down oil at different time levels.

[transam]

With transmission/power steering oil/fluid the colour of it is a tell tale of a problem or needs changing, with engine oil it's a bit different. When you change the oil it will probably ''look'' dirty after a few Km.

Reason being not all the oil is drained as stuff remains in pockets internally, also oil that grips/sticks to metal surfaces will not drain, so this old oil mixes with the new and discolours it. Only way to get ''near'' clean internals is to use a flushing oil first.

Where possible drain old oil hot, when it is at it's thinest.

Forgot before, it is advisable to change oil after 6 months regardless of mileage..

[BSJ]

I change oil on the motor scooters and motor bike at log book service interval or yearly if not being used much. Cars and pick-ups 7500km would be the limit for me. Filter changes every time.

[Thailaw]

Noted. All of the oils I identified sold by Shell and Pitronas are mineral oils. I have never used synthetic oils in an vehicle I have owned, except my '99 Corvette (LS1, full race), which always got the best. So, is the 3, 5 and 7,000 distinction on these oils just nonsense? I,e., will the 3,000 km oil be just as good as the 5,000 km oil for an every 5,000 km oil change?

No, it doesn't work like that, it could take some drivers 2 years to do 5,000km,

and others only 6months.

That doesn't mean you should wait 2 years to change the oil, you should still change it once it loses it's

lubricating qualities, which is when it becomes black and thinned out.

Pull the dipstick out and visually inspect it and rub it between your fingers to feel it, this is the best way to know

when the oil needs changing, mileage intervals stated by the manufacturers are just guide lines.

Also different engines wear down oil at different time levels.

I think it does work like that, or very close. As I said in the OP, my car is 5 years old and has just under 50,000 km on the clock, which is 10,000 every year or 5,000 every 6 months. So, I change my motor oil every 6 months. If I drove less, I would still change the oil every 6 months. And I do agree that the kind of driving does affect how often you should change the oil. But I could not, and I doubt that many men could, tell by sight and feel when the motor oil should be changed. If you can, you are, I think, one of the very few. I doubt the many men even bother to check. I used to check the oil in my '56 Chevy because it burned a quart of oil about every 2,000+ miles, so the oil needed to be checked periodically. I have never checked the oil in my Toyota (I think it was checked once by the attendant at the Shell station, and he gave me a "thumbs up") because it doesn't burn a drop of oil between changes. I change it at the specified intervals, and giving my driving habits, I am sure that is adequate. It may be in fact more frequently than is necessary, but I sure won't be able to tell that by rubbing the oil between my fingers or pouring some oil on my finger and rubbing it on my teeth (didn't Paul Newman do that in some movie?). Next .....

[Thailaw]

For what it is worth, I checked Autoworld.com.my and found the following:

Q: "I've heard that toyota car now can last upt to 10k before a new car servicing is required, how far is true and anybody has already practising this?"

A1: "yes, its 10K for every service intervals. even with the mineral based oil.

all toyota engine oils are safe for 10K use before change, except for diesel.

but of course the mineral based oil will change characteristic faster compare to full synthetic or semi. maybe at 7,000km you may feel like engine less pick-up or sumthing like that.

but it wont affect warranty of the engine.

but its your money and u r free to do what you want. of course toyota strongly recommends 5K change for the mineral oil. or else, add RM20 for the semi synthetic EO and save the time sending the car for servicing."

A2: "yes, its 10K for every service intervals. even with the mineral based oil.

all toyota engine oils are safe for 10K use before change, except for diesel.

but of course the mineral based oil will change characteristic faster compare to full synthetic or semi. maybe at 7,000km you may feel like engine less pick-up or sumthing like that.

but it wont affect warranty of the engine.

but its your money and u r free to do what you want. of course toyota strongly recommends 5K change for the mineral oil. or else, add RM20 for the semi synthetic EO and save the time sending the car for servicing."

The above answers to the question are not the only ones, there are many. But, in my view, these seemed to be most on point.

So, it seems like 5,000 km intervals is the "best" answer, using mineral oil. I am still not sure if there is any real difference between Shell's and Petronas' 3 "grades" of oil, but using the 5,000 km grade may be a good compromise. Thanks for the information and your thoughts.

[Thailaw]

Sorry, I repeated A1 in A2 in my post above. I guess the block copy didn't work. Following is the corrected version.

For what it is worth, I checked Autoworld.com.my and found the following:

Q: "I've heard that toyota car now can last upt to 10k before a new car servicing is required, how far is true and anybody has already practising this?"

A1: "yes, its 10K for every service intervals. even with the mineral based oil.

all toyota engine oils are safe for 10K use before change, except for diesel.

but of course the mineral based oil will change characteristic faster compare to full synthetic or semi. maybe at 7,000km you may feel like engine less pick-up or sumthing like that.

but it wont affect warranty of the engine.

but its your money and u r free to do what you want. of course toyota strongly recommends 5K change for the mineral oil. or else, add RM20 for the semi synthetic EO and save the time sending the car for servicing."

A2: "I personally feel that even I use mineral oil, semi synthetic oil or fully synthetic oil, change the engine oil every 5,000km mileage is the best. A friend of mine is a performance player, he only use mineral oil and change at every 5,000km. Every type of oil that you use, once it reach 7,000km or 8,000km you will definitely feel the rough performance from the engine, also the noise. Last time my Toyota Vios used all three types of engine oil as listed above. Now my new Corolla Altis will be using mineral oil and change every 5,000km. Every 5,000km your engine get new engine oil, it's still a good protection for the engine, some more save a lot of your pocket money. I know there are few cheap fully synthetic engine oil such as Bardahl and Penzoil, maybe you can try them out."

The above answers to the question are not the only ones, there are many. But, in my view, these seemed to be most on point.

So, it seems like 5,000 km intervals is the "best" answer, using mineral oil. I am still not sure if there is any real difference between Shell's and Petronas' 3 "grades" of oil, but using the 5,000 km grade may be a good compromise. Thanks for the information and your thoughts.

[thaicruze]

With my City I did what the dealer said. Bring it in every 10,000km. When it was out of warranty, B-Quick used to ask me which oil I wanted. I said the best one. Most expensive. Usually they would say that was the 10,000km one.

My Cruze has every 15,000km. I pay more because it's more oil of course. They put that Synthetic GM oil on there. Costs me like 4,500 baht or something like that.

Just do what the manufacturer says.

[Thailaw]

With my City I did what the dealer said. Bring it in every 10,000km. When it was out of warranty, B-Quick used to ask me which oil I wanted. I said the best one. Most expensive. Usually they would say that was the 10,000km one.

My Cruze has every 15,000km. I pay more because it's more oil of course. They put that Synthetic GM oil on there. Costs me like 4,500 baht or something like that.

Just do what the manufacturer says.

I am not sure that "the best one" and "the most expensive one" are the same. It might be better for your car and your pocketbook to change the oil every 5,000 km using the 5,000 km grade oil. Certainly, that is what many people have suggested. As I recall, my last oil change at Shell was around B500 for the 5,000 km grade oil. To go from that to 15,000 km grade synthetic oil for B4,500 (I checked and if you have the 1.8L engine, you use about 4.5 quarts of oil, which is the same amount of oil I use in my Toyota, depending if you change the filter) would increase the cost by 3 times (B1,500 vs. B4,500 for 15,000 km of driving) and probably overall be worse for the car. Not a move in the right direction, I think. But you bought a Chevy, so you have experience heading that way......

[Lancelot]

I change oil on the motor scooters and motor bike at log book service interval or yearly if not being used much. Cars and pick-ups 7500km would be the limit for me. Filter changes every time.

I agree.

Modern oil is far superior to even the recent past. Multiples of 7,500 are easy to remember.

On my CBR 150 there is still some old oil left in the engine after each change, so I tend to follow the recommended 4,000 km interval. I just started using semi-synthetic, so I may extend that out to 5,000

[Thailaw]

I change oil on the motor scooters and motor bike at log book service interval or yearly if not being used much. Cars and pick-ups 7500km would be the limit for me. Filter changes every time.

I agree.

Modern oil is far superior to even the recent past. Multiples of 7,500 are easy to remember.

On my CBR 150 there is still some old oil left in the engine after each change, so I tend to follow the recommended 4,000 km interval. I just started using semi-synthetic, so I may extend that out to 5,000

In any motor vehicle, car or bike, there is always some old oil left in the engine after the oil is drained. This is especially true if the oil filter is not changed. So, this is not a justification for treating a car and a motorbike differently. I change the oil in my motorbikes every 6 months or every 1000 km, which ever comes earlier. I would change the oil in an air cooled motorbike more frequently than a water cooled motorbike if I went more km's between oil changes. At B120 for an oil change on a motorbike, it is just very cheap preventative maintenance. There is no reason to pinch satang on oil changes.

[aussiebebe]

With transmission/power steering oil/fluid the colour of it is a tell tale of a problem or needs changing, with engine oil it's a bit different. When you change the oil it will probably ''look'' dirty after a few Km.

Reason being not all the oil is drained as stuff remains in pockets internally, also oil that grips/sticks to metal surfaces will not drain, so this old oil mixes with the new and discolours it. Only way to get ''near'' clean internals is to use a flushing oil first.

Where possible drain old oil hot, when it is at it's thinest.

Forgot before, it is advisable to change oil after 6 months regardless of mileage..

Yes, that's always what confuses me and I think that's what the OP is getting at. I only drive around 10,000km per year, yet when I pay for synthetic oil, Honda always recommend that it's good for 10,000km or 6 months, whichever comes first. It seems like a waste changing when I've only driven 5,000km - is it really necessary? As the OP is asking, would it better to choose the oil that will last for the distance you plan to drive in 6 months? 4 liters of mineral oil costs between 1/4 and 1/3 of the price of 4 liters of synthetic.

[Thailaw]

With transmission/power steering oil/fluid the colour of it is a tell tale of a problem or needs changing, with engine oil it's a bit different. When you change the oil it will probably ''look'' dirty after a few Km.

Reason being not all the oil is drained as stuff remains in pockets internally, also oil that grips/sticks to metal surfaces will not drain, so this old oil mixes with the new and discolours it. Only way to get ''near'' clean internals is to use a flushing oil first.

Where possible drain old oil hot, when it is at it's thinest.

Forgot before, it is advisable to change oil after 6 months regardless of mileage..

Yes, that's always what confuses me and I think that's what the OP is getting at. I only drive around 10,000km per year, yet when I pay for synthetic oil, Honda always recommend that it's good for 10,000km or 6 months, whichever comes first. It seems like a waste changing when I've only driven 5,000km - is it really necessary? As the OP is asking, would it better to choose the oil that will last for the distance you plan to drive in 6 months? 4 liters of mineral oil costs between 1/4 and 1/3 of the price of 4 liters of synthetic.

That was not my original point, but it is a good one. No one that drives less then 5,000 km in 6 months should be using synthetic motor oil. It's just a waste. My question was about the "grades" of mineral motor oil and is there really any difference among them. But, since I drive about 5,000 km every 6 months, I would never go to the 7,000 grade of oil (assuming it is designed to last longer than the 5,000 km grade), because I would be changing my motor oil at 5,000 km in any event when the 6 month period after the last oil change has expired.

[transam]

With transmission/power steering oil/fluid the colour of it is a tell tale of a problem or needs changing, with engine oil it's a bit different. When you change the oil it will probably ''look'' dirty after a few Km.

Reason being not all the oil is drained as stuff remains in pockets internally, also oil that grips/sticks to metal surfaces will not drain, so this old oil mixes with the new and discolours it. Only way to get ''near'' clean internals is to use a flushing oil first.

Where possible drain old oil hot, when it is at it's thinest.

Forgot before, it is advisable to change oil after 6 months regardless of mileage..

Yes, that's always what confuses me and I think that's what the OP is getting at. I only drive around 10,000km per year, yet when I pay for synthetic oil, Honda always recommend that it's good for 10,000km or 6 months, whichever comes first. It seems like a waste changing when I've only driven 5,000km - is it really necessary? As the OP is asking, would it better to choose the oil that will last for the distance you plan to drive in 6 months? 4 liters of mineral oil costs between 1/4 and 1/3 of the price of 4 liters of synthetic.

That was not my original point, but it is a good one. No one that drives less then 5,000 km in 6 months should be using synthetic motor oil. It's just a waste. My question was about the "grades" of mineral motor oil and is there really any difference among them. But, since I drive about 5,000 km every 6 months, I would never go to the 7,000 grade of oil (assuming it is designed to last longer than the 5,000 km grade), because I would be changing my motor oil at 5,000 km in any event when the 6 month period after the last oil change has expired.

In your case as you say, synthetic would be a waste of cash. My truck doesn't get much use so from new after run in l used synthetic a few times to get the metal ''impregnated'' with the stuff then changed to semi to keep up the protection. These are MY thoughts on stuff, folk might disagree.

Many low stressed (rpm) engines don't need or gain from synthetic, but which ones .

Soooooo, l stay on the safe side. Shell Helix do a basic mineral oil for turbo diesels to do the job for 5000km or the six months.

[mogandave]

Personally, I think people that drive less benefit the most from synthetic oils. Synthetics have better corrosion resistance, better viscosity control and last longer. Any situation where an engine spends a such a significant percentage of run time warming up is bad. Also, as a percentage of the total cost of ownership, for guys driving 10k a year it's nothing. "Penny wise and pound foolish"

I can look at oil an rub it between my fingers and know when someone has waited too long to change their oil.

"When in doubt, change it out."

[harrry]

I thought the main problem with low milage vehicles is condensation in the oil which rarely get hot so that is why it should be changed at 6 months. For 800 to1000 baht at BQuick with filter it is a good way to get a full safety check at the same time.

Edited October 1, 2012 by harrry

[transam]

I thought the main problem with low milage vehicles is condensation in the oil which rarely get hot so that is why it should be changed at 6 months.

You are correct. Thats why the 6 months thing. Condensation (water) in the engine.

[mogandave]

That's why corrosion resistance is so important,

[Thailaw]

Personally, I think people that drive less benefit the most from synthetic oils. Synthetics have better corrosion resistance, better viscosity control and last longer. Any situation where an engine spends a such a significant percentage of run time warming up is bad. Also, as a percentage of the total cost of ownership, for guys driving 10k a year it's nothing. "Penny wise and pound foolish"

I can look at oil an rub it between my fingers and know when someone has waited too long to change their oil.

"When in doubt, change it out."

From what I have read, synthetic oil provides better lubrication of the engine under temperature extremes, both hot and cold. If you average about 5,000 km every 6 months, under "normal" driving conditions, and change the oil every 6 months, I doubt that you get significantly better engine protection with synthetic oil over a good quality mineral based oil. But its you money, so do what turns you on...

[mogandave]

Personally, I think people that drive less benefit the most from synthetic oils. Synthetics have better corrosion resistance, better viscosity control and last longer. Any situation where an engine spends a such a significant percentage of run time warming up is bad. Also, as a percentage of the total cost of ownership, for guys driving 10k a year it's nothing. "Penny wise and pound foolish"

I can look at oil an rub it between my fingers and know when someone has waited too long to change their oil.

"When in doubt, change it out."

From what I have read, synthetic oil provides better lubrication of the engine under temperature extremes, both hot and cold. If you average about 5,000 km every 6 months, under "normal" driving conditions, and change the oil every 6 months, I doubt that you get significantly better engine protection with synthetic oil over a good quality mineral based oil. But its you money, so do what turns you on...

I'm sure you're right.

[Thailaw]

I do not purport to know much about synthetic motor oils and they were not the focus of my original post. I have only used synthetic oil in my Corvette, which was recommended by the mechanic that did all of the engine modifications. Following is the summary from a Popular Mechanics article (21st November 2007) that considers synthetic vs. mineral based motor oil, which I think sums up the issue pretty well:

"So, should you use synthetic oil? Depends. Some high-performance and high-end cars come factory filled with synthetic, and you should stick with it. If you live where it gets really frigid in the winter, you might be better off with a synthetic for its superior cold-weather starting. If you tow a trailer and your oil temperature is consistently above 200 F, you should use a synthetic oil and install an auxiliary oil cooler. I use mineral oils in my wife's car, but the race car and the motorcycles use synthetics. It's even more complicated than that--the race car gets a race-specific lubricant, with an additive package not intended for more than a few hundred miles between changes and not for very many cold starts. My Ducati, with its carbon-fiber-based dry clutch, uses an automotive-grade synthetic, while my wet-clutch Triumph uses a motorcycle-specific oil without friction modifiers. Wet-clutch bikes share the engine oil sump with the gearbox and clutch, so the friction modifiers used in auto-type oils might make the organic materials on the clutch plates too slippery and prevent good clutch lockup. If your driving cycle or your vehicle is more average, you probably can drive your car well past 200,000 miles without needing major engine work by using the proper grade of conventional mineral oil and appropriate change intervals.

But don't assume that if a synthetic is so good (read: very expensive) that you don't need to change it as often. The base lubricant may well be better, but the additive package, which can be as much as 25 percent of the volume of product in the bottle, can still become exhausted. And unburned fuel, partially burned hydrocarbons, atmospheric dirt, metal wear particles and blowby carbon particles will build up just as fast in a synthetic-lubricated engine as in one laved in petroleum-based oil. The only way to remove this stuff is to drain and replace the oil. I've always recommended 3000-mile oil changes, but I'm rethinking that. The air cleaners, the compression and oil-control rings and positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) in modern engines are better than ever. The air cleaners admit less abrasive atmospheric dirt, and closely fitted rings keep blowby and particulates above the piston and out of the oil. Sophisticated PCV systems are better at purging water vapor and partial hydrocarbons from the crankcase and burning them off in the engine, so I'm leaning more toward 5000 miles for most people with cars newer than about 1990 or so. As always, your mileage may vary."

Not that what I do matters, but I plan to continue to use mineral based motor oil in my Toyota. I think that I am motivated to change the oil and filter more often and at correct intervals when the cost of doing so is B600 rather than B4,000. I think I would try to stretch out the time/kms between oil changes if I was using a much more expensive oil, and I would probably convince myself (incorrectly) that it is superior oil and will last and can be used longer. Interesting topic and thanks to all for your thoughts and comments. The oil has been changed (5,087 km); now on to the tires..... Cheers,

[funcat]

Quote:"Some high-performance and high-end cars come factory filled with synthetic, and you should stick with it."

I do have a new truck filled with a synthetic oil,so I would just stick with the factory recommendations...and should do the oil changes at the dealer for the guarantee issues...

[Thailaw]

Quote:"Some high-performance and high-end cars come factory filled with synthetic, and you should stick with it."

I do have a new truck filled with a synthetic oil,so I would just stick with the factory recommendations...and should do the oil changes at the dealer for the guarantee issues...

As long as you have receipts for the oil changes at the required intervals (or earlier), it should not make any difference where they are done for the manufacturer's guarantee to be honored. But most dealers give a pretty attractive price (pay only for the oil) for the scheduled maintenance during the warrany period. Indeed, the Toyota dealer gave me reduced prices on the unscheduled oil changes I wanted done (1,000, 3,000, 6,000 and 10,000 kms), and just counted them as "free" scheduled oil changes. I was up to the 40,000 kms scheduled oil change before the car had reached 15,000 kms. As I recall, I switched to Shell before the warranty had exipred, mainly for convenience (in and out much more quickly) and not needing to make an appointment. I have no complaints about the service at the Toyota dealer, but for oil changes, I like the guy at Petronas on Sukumvit better -- besides changing the oil and filter, he seems to give the car a pretty good going over, battery, fluids, etc.