dannishgung Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I was very shocked to know this figures!!!!! From Aug 2004 up to now 9 Britons were murdered in Thailand. In 2005 alone 188 Britons died in Thailand, mostly of traffic accidents according to British Embassy. Wow!! I was playing golf with 2 Japanese friends and there was a big article on crime epidemic in Thailand on their Japanese newspaper called Newsclips as they told me the figures(from British Embassy). Wow, I was quite shocked. I came back and did a google search type in key word "nine Britons murdered in Thailand since August 2004" many international press came up, such as Kuwait Times, Vietnam news ect. that confirmed this figures. I remembered the 2 back-packers killed by the cop, then Catherine Horton, then a guy killed in Ko Chang, can anyone remind us who were the other 5 Britons murdered in Thailand since Aug 2004?? Many of you can still argue you feel safer in Thailand then in London, Manchester, or in Chicago or in NY. But the figures will not lie. Altogether in 2005, 188 Britons died in thailand, although majority in car accidents(from Newsclip figures provided by British Embassy). I think the Thai government is trying hard to cover up and downplay this figures to protect tourism. I hope most of the members should not keep saying they feel so safe in Thailand, because it will mislead so many other naive travelers to this unknown country. We should at least give them a fair and unbiased warning, that to travel to Thailand involve risks much higher than other major tourist destinations in the Europe such as France, Spain, Italy, Austria, Greece or any other European destinations and also much higher than other world popular destinations such as Mexico, Malaysia, China, HK, US, Canada ect. People should be much more cautious in Thailand than all other top world destinations, not only in crimes but also in traffic accidents. I think this kind of fair waring should be given to all tourists coming to Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Those numbers are meaningless unless you compare the number of deaths to the number of Brits in Thailand at any one time, and then compare that ratio to the number of deaths in Britian to the number of Brits living in Britain. If only 1000 Brits are in Thailand, and 9 are murdered and 188 die of other causes, then you can say it's a very dangerous place for Brits. But if 10,000,000 Brits are in Thailand, then the numbers are very low. Anyone with complete statistics which will allow the situation to be adequately assessed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I suppose if you ran the statistics of Brits who have been murdered in the UK during the same time period (and I have not), given the populations of Thailand and the UK are nuch the same you would be staggered at the number of deaths in the UK by their fellow citizens. If you could find the statistics of the number of Thais murdered in the UK during the same period (again I have not) you would probably find that less Thais were murdered in the UK than Brits in Thailand. Does that mean that the UK is a safer and nicer place to live? I don't think so and I do feel much safer in Thailand than the UK or many other countries I have visited in my 61 years of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Those numbers are meaningless unless you compare the number of deaths to the number of Brits in Thailand at any one time, and then compare that ratio to the number of deaths in Britian to the number of Brits living in Britain.If only 1000 Brits are in Thailand, and 9 are murdered and 188 die of other causes, then you can say it's a very dangerous place for Brits. But if 10,000,000 Brits are in Thailand, then the numbers are very low. Anyone with complete statistics which will allow the situation to be adequately assessed? British embassy says 750,000 Brits visit Thailand a year so that would be 1.5 Million since 2004. So that is about 1 in 166,666 visitors/expats that have been murdered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 (edited) Not foolproof reasoning here but try this for size:- There were 5 Brits murdered in Thailand in 2004, about 360,000 visits, that's 1 murder for every 72,000 visits. Contrast that with this: There were 67 Brits murdered in the US in 2004, about 3,900,000 visits, that's 1 murder for every 58,000 visits. So Thailand is about 20% safer than the US for Brits. Can't find any figures for 2005 (except Thailand). Don't forget, 2005 was a bad year for foreign deaths in Thailand, Tsunami!! I still feel FAR safer here in BKK than almost any other capital city I've visited. EDIT: Interesting, the figures I found show about half the number of visits than the ones Tywais found. Both Thai and US figures are from the same source. Edited January 31, 2006 by Crossy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prudent_rabbit Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 hope most of the members should not keep saying they feel so safe in Thailand, because it will mislead so many other naive travelers to this unknown country So, even though I do feel safe, If i say I dont feel safe, this will not mislead those naive travelers...confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadman Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I hope most of the members should not keep saying they feel so safe in Thailand, because it will mislead so many other naive travelers to this unknown country.So should we mislead them by saying it's dangerous, then? We should at least give them a fair and unbiased warning, that to travel to Thailand involve risks much higher than other major tourist destinations in the Europe such as France, Spain, Italy, Austria, Greece or any other European destinations Have you been to Europe recently? Read the news about the nightly riots in Paris? Seen the crime stats for Rome? Whilst I have no comparative statistics, I really must take issue with your assertion. And as for London! and also much higher than other world popular destinations such as Mexico, Malaysia, China, HK, US, Canada ect. Higher than in Mexico? Or in the USA? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkmadness Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Couple of points: 1. Just coz 750 000 brits visited thailand in that period of time doesn't mnean there was only 750 000 brits here. You need to jump up that figure quite a bit for brits living here as well I reckon. 2. Do you consider 'safety' on just whether you get murdered or not? I lived on a bit of a crappy estate in the UK and I never feared about being killed, but not wanting to get my head mashed and/or crippled in made try to avoid walking past certain pubs at kick out/off time. Thats the reason a lot of people feel safe here, its not the safety from something as extreme as murder, but more the safety that it seems your less likely to get attacked for some chavs/gangs etc. that are just out for a Friday night buzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Turner Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I feel safer in Bangkok or Pattaya than I do in Samui but that don't stop me lovin it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suegha Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Lies, damned lies and statistics. Here's the true statement, no statistics necessary, "Thailand is a safe place to live or visit!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 EDIT: Interesting, the figures I found show about half the number of visits than the ones Tywais found. Both Thai and US figures are from the same source. Sorry about not listing sources and now I've lost them. They were from two different British publications regarding the latest murder and quoted the British embassy as the source. Could have been fed from the same British PR agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim 50 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Those numbers are meaningless unless you compare the number of deaths to the number of Brits in Thailand at any one time, and then compare that ratio to the number of deaths in Britian to the number of Brits living in Britain.If only 1000 Brits are in Thailand, and 9 are murdered and 188 die of other causes, then you can say it's a very dangerous place for Brits. But if 10,000,000 Brits are in Thailand, then the numbers are very low. Anyone with complete statistics which will allow the situation to be adequately assessed? The point is the true figures are being covered up by the Thai government. Thus, Thailand is MUCH MORE DANGEROUS than the Thai TOURISM MACHINE reports and MUCH MORE DANGEROUS than the other countries mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkmadness Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 If Thailand was much much more dangerous than these other countries don't you think that we would be saying that (by 'we' I mean the people that have lived here for a while) coz it doesn't seem to work out that way. It seems that people that live here seem to be in the majority in agreeing Thailand's a pretty safe place for farang and lets face it, it is. I know a dude that got shot and killed out here a few years ago, but he was moving in very dodgy circles, then again, I knew a person that got kicked to death taking a shortcut through the local university back home. I'd rather live here and not mix in the dodgy circles myself than having to be watching over my back every 5 minutes when I walk home on Friday night back in Dagenham. As I said before, its not just the murder rate, its violent and unprovoked assaults that people get scared of back in farang land, whereas that sort of thing just doesn't happen to farang much over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Those numbers are meaningless unless you compare the number of deaths to the number of Brits in Thailand at any one time, and then compare that ratio to the number of deaths in Britian to the number of Brits living in Britain. If only 1000 Brits are in Thailand, and 9 are murdered and 188 die of other causes, then you can say it's a very dangerous place for Brits. But if 10,000,000 Brits are in Thailand, then the numbers are very low. Anyone with complete statistics which will allow the situation to be adequately assessed? The point is the true figures are being covered up by the Thai government. Thus, Thailand is MUCH MORE DANGEROUS than the Thai TOURISM MACHINE reports and MUCH MORE DANGEROUS than the other countries mentioned. Would you care to state your source? If you cannot remember the name of the bar, never mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuky Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Just a thought, how many of those Brits that were pronounced dead in the kingdom were pronounce in the days following the tsunami? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Stats are misleading - we are assuming crime element is constant and/or all deaths were the same. Too many variables to really make any serious conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chownah Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 It's really dangerous up here in the north....I can hardly sleep at night worrying about.....everything. It's much safer down south....better to stay nice and safe in the south...definitely the south is safer...definitely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opothai Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 The British Embassy in Thailand said nine of its nationals have been murdered since August 2004. source ANN thailand is getting more dangerous for foreigners, ' but i feel safer in bangkok, pattaya etc' i hear you say i have seen bangkok not just the touristy places and i can tell you from personal experience once you travel outside the touristy areas and into the suburbs or slums you get taunted, provoked and generally miss treated, these are the things the new traveller needs to know. as for the beach areas people go on holiday to relax not to be on thier guard. i took my son on holiday 17 years old and i would not let him go any where without me, how many members would let thier 17 - 18 year old children in thailand for the first time, go and explore by themselves. don't get me wrong i love thailand and i will end up living there, but it is definately not the same as when i first visted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tippaporn Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 bkkmadness posts makes a lot of sense. I've always felt that Thailand is a very safe place to be, in terms of overall violence. My experience has followed that as long as I've lived here. When I first got here I asked some local Thais if there were certain neigborhoods in Bangkok that one needs to avoid. The question seemed to be unintelligible to the Thais. As far as I know there are no bad neighborhoods in Bangkok, contrary to the vast majority of western cities. Come to Chicago and I'll tell you were not to go. Ultimately, I believe that all statistics are worthless, in the sense that they attempt to portray the chances of any given experience happening to any given individual. There's a lot of flawed thinking within that rationale. It makes sense, but then again given other knowledge it really doesn't. It all falls apart. Safety is always a personal decision and what happens to you is dependent only on your personal conclusion of whether you are safe or not. What happens to other people, no matter the volume, is irrelevant. Newspapers like to sell newspapers. That's their business. Newspapers know that fear sells because most people are irrational in their fear. When they run stories such as this it's only natural, for one, and I completely ignore it for another. I, myself, would never promote fear. Learn instead what fear is and what it produces. So . . . I will tell anyone I meet that Thailand is absolutely safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Lies, damned lies and statistics. Here's the true statement, no statistics necessary, "Thailand is a safe place to live or visit!" The extended families and friends of the 188 Brits who perished last year would probably dispute that... As far as I know there are no bad neighborhoods in Bangkok, contrary to the vast majority of western cities. Come to Chicago and I'll tell you were not to go. Klong Toey = South Side Chicago same, same.... errrr... check that.... Klong Toey doesn't have the crack, but it has more heroin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKK90210 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I think I'm more worry about being hit by song-theaw drivers in Jomtien than your news! By any chance....do you have any stats for the americans there also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluezephyr Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 a friend got mugged in New york,and nearly mugged in Hua Hin. people get mugged/murdered(ocaisonally) in my home town Norwich.i could handle myself if i need to but <deleted> to walking round norwich in the evening people in this country get killed for the wrong look at someone no place is 100% safe,the wrong place at the wrong time shatting myself over the plane ride to LOS,first time flying,but if i didnt do it i'd have never seen such a wonderfull place. more chance of dying in my car going to work earning money to get on that (statistically safer flight) view everyday as surviving,theres too much to get you. whats the alternative,stay indoors and live safe and healthy waiting for old age to take you away,or go out see the world and take a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Lies, damned lies and statistics. Here's the true statement, no statistics necessary, "Thailand is a safe place to live or visit!" The extended families and friends of the 188 Brits who perished last year would probably dispute that... Like Tuky said, deduct the Tsunami toll from that. I get tired of people who blow up things they see in the news into major issues then run around screaming that the sky is falling and the world's coming to an end. "The bars are closing early, I'm leaving Thailand for good!" (Most didn't) "The Bird flu is going to mutate and kill millions" (It didn't) "This time it really will kill millions" (Still hasn't) "Thailand is becoming very dangerous!" (Yet you still drive a motorcycle in flip-flops and no helmet) When and if a crisis or disaster comes along its not generaly the ones who scream the loudest who survive, its the ones that remained calm and thought rationaly. Thinking a situation is worse than it is never did anyone any good. Be sensible, don't p1ss people off, don't drive like a local, and you have overwhelming odds that you will survive your time in Thailand. cv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juleschester Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 As a single 34yr old female, Ive been visiting samui, pa ngan, bkk and pattaya for the last 4yrs on my own and even though I was there in samui a few weeks ago when that girl got murdered and that guy got shot in Solo, I still feel totally safe and am returning in September for 3 wks and will contine to visit. I guess it does help that I know a lot of people there in samui now. Both local and English, so I dont tend to mix in the 'wrong circles'. Then again, youve got to have a bit of savvy where ever you are in the world, dont you. I lived in Brooklyn, NY for a year, and felt safe there as well!!!! (or was it just cos I was pi**ed all the time and didnt give a sh*t ??? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tippaporn Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 As far as I know there are no bad neighborhoods in Bangkok, contrary to the vast majority of western cities. Come to Chicago and I'll tell you were not to go. Klong Toey = South Side Chicago same, same.... errrr... check that.... Klong Toey doesn't have the crack, but it has more heroin. I've been to Klong Toey, as well as the south side and west side of Chicago. Sorry, no comparison at all, SJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkmadness Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 I've never been to South Side Chicago, but I can't imagine Klong Toey even being close to it in terms of danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 As far as I know there are no bad neighborhoods in Bangkok, contrary to the vast majority of western cities. Come to Chicago and I'll tell you were not to go. Klong Toey = South Side Chicago same, same.... errrr... check that.... Klong Toey doesn't have the crack, but it has more heroin. I've been to Klong Toey, as well as the south side and west side of Chicago. Sorry, no comparison at all, SJ. As have I... guess it's just a difference in opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwanderer108 Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Attention Sex Tourists and Full Moon Beach Hoppers, If you come to Thailand with only hedonistic intentions and aren't prepared/willing to learn, participate in/about the authentic surroundings/culture/language, you are at higher risk than others As far as those who are here long term, I think the only real risks of violence are domestic...in the home...angry mias with sharp objects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabaijai Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 once you travel outside the touristy areas and into the suburbs or slums you get taunted, provoked and generally miss treated, I've been visiting and/or living in areas like that for over 25 years. Never once taunted, provoked or "miss treated". Nor has anyone I know ever received such treatment in Bangkok. Sounds like an over-active imagination at work to me. In the UK most recently I've had been hassled on the street without provocation in London and in Chester; in the USA in New York and Oakland; in Europe in Avignon (France) and Alba (Italy). Surely more than nine Brits are murdered every single day in the UK. But it seems from reading the posts so far that those who believe Bangkok/Thailand is a dangerous place will go on believing that despite statistics, and vice versa for those who believe it's comparatively safer than almost any Western country. Talking strictly murder rate (rather a limited way to look at personal safety, as another poster pointed out), Thailand does rank higher than the UK on this scale: murder rate But the difference between the two is rather small (8 per 100,000 versus 14 per 100,000) despite the numerical ranking. US and Mexico both rank higher than Thailand. Compare with assaults per capita: assaults And the UK (at 745 per 100,000) ranks way ahead of Thailand (at 31 per 100,000). Now you can say that reporting is not comparable between the two countries, which is probably true, but then there's no need to point to statistics at all and we can all just rely on our subjectiver perceptions instead. Which seems to be the case already ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkmadness Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 once you travel outside the touristy areas and into the suburbs or slums you get taunted, provoked and generally miss treated, I've been visiting and/or living in areas like that for over 25 years. Never once taunted, provoked or "miss treated". Nor has anyone I know ever received such treatment in Bangkok. Sounds like an over-active imagination at work to me. I've never seen or experienced that either. Talking strictly murder rate (rather a limited way to look at personal safety, as another poster pointed out), Thailand does rank higher than the UK on this scale:murder rate But the difference between the two is rather small (8 per 100,000 versus 14 per 100,000) despite the numerical ranking. US and Mexico both rank higher than Thailand. Compare with assaults per capita: assaults And the UK (at 745 per 100,000) ranks way ahead of Thailand (at 31 per 100,000). Now you can say that reporting is not comparable between the two countries, which is probably true, but then there's no need to point to statistics at all and we can all just rely on our subjectiver perceptions instead. Which seems to be the case already ... Thats what I'm saying, tons of assaults in the UK, and lets face it an assault which can leave you brain damaged or paralysed is bad enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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