Thai Int'l School Uk Vs Us Levels Of Education

[Kilgore Trout]

Oh how I wish it were true that "good students go to "good" read: expensive schools....certainly in Thailand, only the most wealthy can hope to go to the most expensive schools here. And these are certainly not the best students in the country.

Is this true? ISB and Bangkok Pattana are 2 of the most expensive schools in Bangkok and the general (true or not?) impression is that they are in fact the best 2 schools here.

I've seen what goes on in many top tier international schools and can tell you that some are great, some are not. It all comes down to the teacher in the classroom. And many of these schools hire very young, inexperienced teachers.

For the money though, you are not getting much more, and in many cases less, than you would from a public school in the US.

[StreetCowboy]

Oh how I wish it were true that "good students go to "good" read: expensive schools....certainly in Thailand, only the most wealthy can hope to go to the most expensive schools here. And these are certainly not the best students in the country.

Is this true? ISB and Bangkok Pattana are 2 of the most expensive schools in Bangkok and the general (true or not?) impression is that they are in fact the best 2 schools here.

When we were looking at other schools, the view expressed by senior teachers there was that Pattana was the standard to which they aspired.

SC

[Nepal4me]

Oh how I wish it were true that "good students go to "good" read: expensive schools....certainly in Thailand, only the most wealthy can hope to go to the most expensive schools here. And these are certainly not the best students in the country.

Is this true? ISB and Bangkok Pattana are 2 of the most expensive schools in Bangkok and the general (true or not?) impression is that they are in fact the best 2 schools here.

When we were looking at other schools, the view expressed by senior teachers there was that Pattana was the standard to which they aspired.

SC

At Patana, I understand they have a systems where they group all the students by their performance. For example if they have 150 Year 2 kids, they have them in something like 5 groups and each group has 5 subgroups labled A to E. So the top math student would be in group 1A and the worst in 5E. The kids have opportunities to move up if they do well and will go down if they don't. By the end of grade 12, if they're in the lower groups they can't get into a good uni.

This is my admittedly very rough understanding of how Patana works, I wonder if anybody can comment on this. Currently my kids in their lower school are all taught together, from the worst to the best and honestly, the smarter kids are being dumbed down to the lower kid's levels. The Patana system seems good in this respect although it may be a bit elitist and the E5 kids would be in a positive frame of mind. I'd like to get some clarity on this.

[StreetCowboy]

Oh how I wish it were true that "good students go to "good" read: expensive schools....certainly in Thailand, only the most wealthy can hope to go to the most expensive schools here. And these are certainly not the best students in the country.

Is this true? ISB and Bangkok Pattana are 2 of the most expensive schools in Bangkok and the general (true or not?) impression is that they are in fact the best 2 schools here.

When we were looking at other schools, the view expressed by senior teachers there was that Pattana was the standard to which they aspired.

SC

At Patana, I understand they have a systems where they group all the students by their performance. For example if they have 150 Year 2 kids, they have them in something like 5 groups and each group has 5 subgroups labled A to E. So the top math student would be in group 1A and the worst in 5E. The kids have opportunities to move up if they do well and will go down if they don't. By the end of grade 12, if they're in the lower groups they can't get into a good uni.

This is my admittedly very rough understanding of how Patana works, I wonder if anybody can comment on this. Currently my kids in their lower school are all taught together, from the worst to the best and honestly, the smarter kids are being dumbed down to the lower kid's levels. The Patana system seems good in this respect although it may be a bit elitist and the E5 kids would be in a positive frame of mind. I'd like to get some clarity on this.

That's correct. It lets the teachers teach to a certain level, so that the slower kids are not getting left behind, and the quicker ones held back. They're separately grouped for different subjects, and the approach to streaming varies by subject and in different years of the school.

One mistake I realised I made when I was at school was concentrating on my strengths, rather than addressing my weaknesses, and I think its important that the school addresses the needs of its less able pupils - and those like the offspring of Kilgore Trout's friends, who don't get the same level of parental support and encouragement.

SC

[McMagus]

Jeez it's been interesting reading all this ...from teachers I expect. Except for....

QUOTE:

Sure, partly true but one of the advantages of going to a good school is good students go to good schools. Lets face it for the most part teachers are dummies. Good schools allow students to network and chat and hopefully learn from each other.'

I don't think I have ever heard a more biased, uninformed, arrogant and dare I say load of crap. What is a good school, a good student and at a deeper level what do you mean by good? Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that teachers are largely irrelevant and a good school is one that introduces children to a network of people who can help them through life?

[chiangmaikelly]

Poor kids get poor educations sorry did you want me to say that again?

You miss the point so far from the mark it leaves me stunned. Clearly you are an elitist. I feel sorry for your children.

What is the opposite of elitist?

[chiangmaikelly]

Jeez it's been interesting reading all this ...from teachers I expect. Except for....

QUOTE:

Sure, partly true but one of the advantages of going to a good school is good students go to good schools. Lets face it for the most part teachers are dummies. Good schools allow students to network and chat and hopefully learn from each other.'

I don't think I have ever heard a more biased, uninformed, arrogant and dare I say load of crap. What is a good school, a good student and at a deeper level what do you mean by good? Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that teachers are largely irrelevant and a good school is one that introduces children to a network of people who can help them through life?

Jeez it's been interesting reading all this ...from teachers I expect. Except for....

QUOTE:

Sure, partly true but one of the advantages of going to a good school is good students go to good schools. Lets face it for the most part teachers are dummies. Good schools allow students to network and chat and hopefully learn from each other.'

I don't think I have ever heard a more biased, uninformed, arrogant and dare I say load of crap. What is a good school, a good student and at a deeper level what do you mean by good? Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that teachers are largely irrelevant and a good school is one that introduces children to a network of people who can help them through life?

Ya.

[chiangmaikelly]

Think about if for a second. If teachers were relevant the Thai school system would be even more mucked up than it is now.

[Thongkorn]

Education Damages the Brain.

[rijb]

It certainly discourages free thinking.

[chiangmaikelly]

I used to teach a course in Education. I lectured and had graduate assistants for the discussion sections. One term we picked the some of the grad assistants from the students. It didn't make any difference in the average grades.

A student learns what they want to. Teachers are largely irrelevant.

[McMagus]

QUOTE

'I used to teach.....'

'Teachers are largely irrelevant'.

Must be difficult knowing that you and by extension your life is / has been irrelevant. Lets hope you find relevance in Tv....it's OK...you are among friends.

[chiangmaikelly]

QUOTE

'I used to teach.....'

'Teachers are largely irrelevant'.

Must be difficult knowing that you and by extension your life is / has been irrelevant. Lets hope you find relevance in Tv....it's OK...you are among friends.

Some like fantasy; note the success of Disney. Others like myself prefer reality. A lot of guys in the West day dream about lounging about all day surrounded by beautiful women. I came to Thailand because I perfer reality. I hope your dreams come true. You might try singng, "When you wish upon a star."

[richard10365]

I think it would be best to call the school and ask them your questions directly.

[McMagus]

QUOTE

'I used to teach.....'

'Teachers are largely irrelevant'.

Must be difficult knowing that you and by extension your life is / has been irrelevant. Lets hope you find relevance in Tv....it's OK...you are among friends.

Some like fantasy; note the success of Disney. Others like myself prefer reality. A lot of guys in the West day dream about lounging about all day surrounded by beautiful women. I came to Thailand because I perfer reality. I hope your dreams come true. You might try singng, "When you wish upon a star."

Yep, you are trolling.

[Kilgore Trout]

QUOTE

'I used to teach.....'

'Teachers are largely irrelevant'.

Must be difficult knowing that you and by extension your life is / has been irrelevant. Lets hope you find relevance in Tv....it's OK...you are among friends.

Some like fantasy; note the success of Disney. Others like myself prefer reality. A lot of guys in the West day dream about lounging about all day surrounded by beautiful women. I came to Thailand because I perfer reality. I hope your dreams come true. You might try singng, "When you wish upon a star."

Yep, you are trolling.

+1

[chiangmaikelly]

QUOTE

'I used to teach.....'

'Teachers are largely irrelevant'.

Must be difficult knowing that you and by extension your life is / has been irrelevant. Lets hope you find relevance in Tv....it's OK...you are among friends.

Some like fantasy; note the success of Disney. Others like myself prefer reality. A lot of guys in the West day dream about lounging about all day surrounded by beautiful women. I came to Thailand because I perfer reality. I hope your dreams come true. You might try singng, "When you wish upon a star."

Yep, you are trolling.

+1

The last refuge when facts, reason and logic fails is to call people names.

Rich people go to Chula poor people don't. I know it is difficult when emotion overcomes reason but that is one of the traits of a good teacher.

Edited October 1, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[Kilgore Trout]

last refuge? facts? reason? logic?

You are arguing (badly I might add) about something (god knows what) that has nothing to do with the points other people are making.

You are just spewing nonsense.

This will be my last response to you; and I personally don't believe a word you have said about yourself or your credentials/experience.

You have lost all credibility (not that you had any to begin with). Good day

[maxme]

/ Rich people go to Chula poor people don't. I know it is difficult when emotion overcomes reason but that is one of the traits of a good teacher.

Not all that go to Chula come from rich families. Some parents do actually scrape up as much as they can to get their kids there. Don't exaggerate...

[chiangmaikelly]

/ Rich people go to Chula poor people don't. I know it is difficult when emotion overcomes reason but that is one of the traits of a good teacher.

Not all that go to Chula come from rich families. Some parents do actually scrape up as much as they can to get their kids there. Don't exaggerate...

Who is exaggerating? What % of poor people go to Chula?

[maxme]

So there is only poor and rich in Thailand according to you? Honestly?

[chiangmaikelly]

So there is only poor and rich in Thailand according to you? Honestly?

So there is only poor and rich in Thailand according to you? Honestly?

I didn't say that. I said at Chula. I realize not all people here are native speakers. Chula is one of the better colleges in Thailand and charges accordingly. The entire world charges more for quality everywhere except on this thread. In general people with more money are able to pay more tuition for their children. Rich ladies normally have more expensive clothes. Sons of rich families normally drive expensive cars. Of course if you write the obvious here someone will call you a snob.

Snob or not rich people go to better colleges, have more expensive cars, get better health care and have better haircuts than poor people.

[maccaroni man]

i will chime in on this one. I had my 8yr old and 14 yr old enrolled in a small international school on koh samui for several yrs. they followed the british curriculum. the cost including bus rides to lamie was far less than any of the other international schools on the island. My oldest had no more than 12 children in a class and often times as few as 8. the youngest never had more than 21 children in a class.

I wanted the oldest to enjoy his high school years in the states so this school yr I moved the boys to the states; hilton head island in south carolina. the elementry school is free and offers the IB program (this would have cost me 35k dollars in thailand) based on the 14 yr olds school reports from samui he was put in the advanced honors classes that are offered at the senior high. mid term reports were just handed out and both boys are getting top marks. the oldest whi is gifted was the #1 student in his grade level. I would say that a good international school in thailand will prepare a child to go to the US or Uk. The important thing to remember in my opinion is student to teacher ratio. High price does not mean the teachers are better.

[maxme]

So there is only poor and rich in Thailand according to you? Honestly?

So there is only poor and rich in Thailand according to you? Honestly?

I didn't say that. I said at Chula. I realize not all people here are native speakers. Chula is one of the better colleges in Thailand and charges accordingly. The entire world charges more for quality everywhere except on this thread. In general people with more money are able to pay more tuition for their children. Rich ladies normally have more expensive clothes. Sons of rich families normally drive expensive cars. Of course if you write the obvious here someone will call you a snob.

Snob or not rich people go to better colleges, have more expensive cars, get better health care and have better haircuts than poor people.

Umm... I'm sorry but you mean Chulalongkorn right? Which is a... university and my wife went there and she doesn't come from a wealthy family neither do her friends that also went there.

So what that has to do with being a native speaker is beyond me.

BTW didn't you say you were a Bulgarian?

EDIT: I just want to explain to the one who claims to be a native speaker though earlier on he stated he was a Bulgarian that there is a rising middle class in Thailand. And because of his own boundaries cannot cope with the fact that there is more Thailand than Pattaya, Bangkok and Isaan.

Edited October 1, 2012 by maxme

[McMagus]

Sometimes the air up in Chiang Mai becomes thick with smoke but that is no reason to give this troll air.

Posts from me closed, shame cos it was a good thread until highjacked.

[NanLaew]

i will chime in on this one. I had my 8yr old and 14 yr old enrolled in a small international school on koh samui for several yrs. they followed the british curriculum. the cost including bus rides to lamie was far less than any of the other international schools on the island. My oldest had no more than 12 children in a class and often times as few as 8. the youngest never had more than 21 children in a class.

I wanted the oldest to enjoy his high school years in the states so this school yr I moved the boys to the states; hilton head island in south carolina. the elementry school is free and offers the IB program (this would have cost me 35k dollars in thailand) based on the 14 yr olds school reports from samui he was put in the advanced honors classes that are offered at the senior high. mid term reports were just handed out and both boys are getting top marks. the oldest whi is gifted was the #1 student in his grade level. I would say that a good international school in thailand will prepare a child to go to the US or Uk. The important thing to remember in my opinion is student to teacher ratio. High price does not mean the teachers are better.

Congratulations that your kids are doing well after moving to the US. This thread has had teachers and those with degrees in education talking about everything from the irrelevance of teachers to the best qualifications to be the US President. However, your post made the first valid point IMHO about teacher to student ratio. In Udon Thani, locals and expats clamour to get their kids enrolled in the school that is generally accepted to be the dogs <deleted>. My lad wasn't accepted for their pre-school classes so my good wife had him enrolled at an alternative that also happened to be lots cheaper. I have heard that the classes at the #1 school average over 30 students whereas my boy had 14 last year and 16 this year.

Anyway, he appears to be thriving and we will keep him there for next year when he really starts school. For now, we pick him up from school with a change of clothes and we go do stuff together with mum. I note that there's a fair few kids from the 'top school', some with their parents, hanging out at the mall in the evenings... still in their school uniform. Is that just so the parents can say, 'look where my kid goes'? Despite the fact that with classes that large and anecdotal tales of 'donations' to ease enrollment, isn't the Thai educational system, private and public, just too much of a sloping minefield to be able to safely state which international curriculum provides the best opportunities for a 'real' further education?

I do agree that if you are planning to have your children's advanced education completed in the UK or US, then the appropriate UK or US curriculum would be of benefit in the earlier years here. The fact that some US schools and colleges perceive that the student is more developed and better prepared from a UK curriculum doesn't mean much unless the cost savings of having them in higher education for a shorter period is considered more important than the end product.

Edited October 1, 2012 by NanLaew

[Kilgore Trout]

So there is only poor and rich in Thailand according to you? Honestly?

So there is only poor and rich in Thailand according to you? Honestly?

I didn't say that. I said at Chula. I realize not all people here are native speakers. Chula is one of the better colleges in Thailand and charges accordingly. The entire world charges more for quality everywhere except on this thread. In general people with more money are able to pay more tuition for their children. Rich ladies normally have more expensive clothes. Sons of rich families normally drive expensive cars. Of course if you write the obvious here someone will call you a snob.

Snob or not rich people go to better colleges, have more expensive cars, get better health care and have better haircuts than poor people.

Umm... I'm sorry but you mean Chulalongkorn right? Which is a... university and my wife went there and she doesn't come from a wealthy family neither do her friends that also went there.

So what that has to do with being a native speaker is beyond me.

BTW didn't you say you were a Bulgarian?

EDIT: I just want to explain to the one who claims to be a native speaker though earlier on he stated he was a Bulgarian that there is a rising middle class in Thailand. And because of his own boundaries cannot cope with the fact that there is more Thailand than Pattaya, Bangkok and Isaan.

So this guy is a Bulgarian with a (as he stated) a MA in education?

Gee, I wonder what prestigious institutions he has worked at, as I'm sure the level of education is quite high there. I guess that's why so many of them come to study in the US or other European countries

[Kilgore Trout]

i will chime in on this one. I had my 8yr old and 14 yr old enrolled in a small international school on koh samui for several yrs. they followed the british curriculum. the cost including bus rides to lamie was far less than any of the other international schools on the island. My oldest had no more than 12 children in a class and often times as few as 8. the youngest never had more than 21 children in a class.

I wanted the oldest to enjoy his high school years in the states so this school yr I moved the boys to the states; hilton head island in south carolina. the elementry school is free and offers the IB program (this would have cost me 35k dollars in thailand) based on the 14 yr olds school reports from samui he was put in the advanced honors classes that are offered at the senior high. mid term reports were just handed out and both boys are getting top marks. the oldest whi is gifted was the #1 student in his grade level. I would say that a good international school in thailand will prepare a child to go to the US or Uk. The important thing to remember in my opinion is student to teacher ratio. High price does not mean the teachers are better.

Congratulations that your kids are doing well after moving to the US. This thread has had teachers and those with degrees in education talking about everything from the irrelevance of teachers to the best qualifications to be the US President. However, your post made the first valid point IMHO about teacher to student ratio. In Udon Thani, locals and expats clamour to get their kids enrolled in the school that is generally accepted to be the dogs <deleted>. My lad wasn't accepted for their pre-school classes so my good wife had him enrolled at an alternative that also happened to be lots cheaper. I have heard that the classes at the #1 school average over 30 students whereas my boy had 14 last year and 16 this year.

Anyway, he appears to be thriving and we will keep him there for next year when he really starts school. For now, we pick him up from school with a change of clothes and we go do stuff together with mum. I note that there's a fair few kids from the 'top school', some with their parents, hanging out at the mall in the evenings... still in their school uniform. Is that just so the parents can say, 'look where my kid goes'? Despite the fact that with classes that large and anecdotal tales of 'donations' to ease enrollment, isn't the Thai educational system, private and public, just too much of a sloping minefield to be able to safely state which international curriculum provides the best opportunities for a 'real' further education?

I do agree that if you are planning to have your children's advanced education completed in the UK or US, then the appropriate UK or US curriculum would be of benefit in the earlier years here. The fact that some US schools and colleges perceive that the student is more developed and better prepared from a UK curriculum doesn't mean much unless it's only the cost savings of having them in higher education for a shorter period is considered more important than the end product.

Agreed (although I do think my initial point was quite valid), low student to teacher ratio with an excellent teacher can only lead to positive things; however, with a poor teacher the ratio won't really matter.

[chiangmaikelly]

I didn't say that. I said at Chula. I realize not all people here are native speakers. Chula is one of the better colleges in Thailand and charges accordingly. The entire world charges more for quality everywhere except on this thread. In general people with more money are able to pay more tuition for their children. Rich ladies normally have more expensive clothes. Sons of rich families normally drive expensive cars. Of course if you write the obvious here someone will call you a snob.

Snob or not rich people go to better colleges, have more expensive cars, get better health care and have better haircuts than poor people.

Umm... I'm sorry but you mean Chulalongkorn right? Which is a... university and my wife went there and she doesn't come from a wealthy family neither do her friends that also went there.

So what that has to do with being a native speaker is beyond me.

BTW didn't you say you were a Bulgarian?

EDIT: I just want to explain to the one who claims to be a native speaker though earlier on he stated he was a Bulgarian that there is a rising middle class in Thailand. And because of his own boundaries cannot cope with the fact that there is more Thailand than Pattaya, Bangkok and Isaan.

So this guy is a Bulgarian with a (as he stated) a MA in education?

Gee, I wonder what prestigious institutions he has worked at, as I'm sure the level of education is quite high there. I guess that's why so many of them come to study in the US or other European countries

Is this about attacking me again instead of what I posted? No no no. Get off the personal attacks.