Wife Needs Help. In Thailand On British Passport.

[paz]

To all that pointed out my incorrect post about Thai dial citizenship: Sorry, I didn't know wft I was talking about. Lesson learned, now I know better.

[samran]

To all that pointed out my incorrect post about Thai dial citizenship: Sorry, I didn't know wft I was talking about. Lesson learned, now I know better.

No probs. We were all errant newbies at some point.

Now Daniel-san: Wipe on, wipe off....

[Arkady]

"She's recently just gone back to Thailand, but as she had lost her ID card, Driving licence and her Thai Passport had expired (and was also in her Maiden Name) she flew out on her British passport.

She has decided she wants to stay in Thailand now, and I'll be moving over there next year.

The problem is, she's now in Thailand on a British Passport, with the 30 day holiday visa.

What can she do to stay there, and not have to over stay or pay fines?

I think, the easiest way will be (no joke!):

Forget about the UK-Passport thing, let her apply for a new Thai Id card in her home town.

(lost and found ;-)

After that, get her a new Thai Passport,

After that go to the UK embassy and apply for a new UK passport, b/c the other one got wet (or so), before she walked to the UK-Embassy.

Throw the old passport away, after getting the new one!

Next time, she flies to Europe, she should use the Thai passport in Thailand, and the new UK passport for entering the world!

Worked like this for a friend of mine, coming back after a couple of years in Europe, arrived on her other nationality, but didn't bother, to exit Thailand, for becoming a Thai in Thailand, again!

Are you 100% sure that when departing Thailand it will not come up on the immigration database that she entered Thailand on her UK passport?

I believe that this could come up nowadays. There is another thread about some one who tried to avoid an overstay fine by leaving on his brand new Thai passport but was caught at the airport and forced to cough up the fine.

[Arkady]

That would be my interpretation too. Incase one takes over the nationality of the spouse the law allows explicitly that one keeps Thai nationaity as well. (This section probably dates back to the time that it was commen, in Europe at least, that a woman who marreid a foreigner lost her own nationality and gained the nationality of the husband).

The problem with this interpretation is that very few countries nowadays have a provision comparable to Thailand's Section 9 that allows a foreign woman married to a Thai to "assume" his Thai nationality. In most countries the process for spouses is now naturalisation just like everybody else, even though the timeline may be shorter. Thus for anyone who has naturalised as an alien, whether on a fast track for a spouse or not, Section 22 applies, "Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality" not Section 13 which is now effectively redundant.

This section is somewhat ambivalent anyway and the good news is that it seems never to have been applied in its strictest sense. There is no evidence that anyone has ever involuntarily lost Thai citizenship as a result of naturalising as an alien under the current 1965 Nationality Act.

[Hailfire101]

Hi guys/girls/shims.

Just a quick update.

She'll be flying to Singapore on Wednesday for the night flying back the next day.

She'll be using her British Passport leaving Bangkok (for the stamp), entering Singapore and Leaving Singapore.

When she arrives at the immigration queue at BKK, she's going to use her Thai passport. (Or lack of Queue... she's Thai. lol)

She's been told to have her expired Thai passport with her, and if they ask where her exit stamp is, show that. (As it still has one from 6 years ago!)

Thought i'd give you a bit of extra infomation from what we have been told by the Thai Immigration service in Bangkok.

She 'Could and Should' have used her expired (even wrong named!) passport on arrivial at Bkk. Thailand would not have turned her away, they would have given her entry, even if it was in her Maiden name and 1 year expired.

[samran]

Hi guys/girls/shims.

Just a quick update.

She'll be flying to Singapore on Wednesday for the night flying back the next day.

She'll be using her British Passport leaving Bangkok (for the stamp), entering Singapore and Leaving Singapore.

When she arrives at the immigration queue at BKK, she's going to use her Thai passport. (Or lack of Queue... she's Thai. lol)

She's been told to have her expired Thai passport with her, and if they ask where her exit stamp is, show that. (As it still has one from 6 years ago!)

Thought i'd give you a bit of extra infomation from what we have been told by the Thai Immigration service in Bangkok.

She 'Could and Should' have used her expired (even wrong named!) passport on arrivial at Bkk. Thailand would not have turned her away, they would have given her entry, even if it was in her Maiden name and 1 year expired.

I should also add that she should try and just use the Thai passport automatic gates upon return. She might just be able to breeze through that and not even have to speak to anyone, all going well.

[Hailfire101]

Automatic gates?

Oh, those are new.

I'll advise her to use that then. Even better, thanks.

[Hailfire101]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their help.

The wife just got back to BKK and used the auto-gates with her Thai passport.

Really really easy.

Just a shame she had to fly to singapore to do it. (Had a nice day there tho, she really likes the place).

So, once again, thanks.

[samran]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their help.

The wife just got back to BKK and used the auto-gates with her Thai passport.

Really really easy.

Just a shame she had to fly to singapore to do it. (Had a nice day there tho, she really likes the place).

So, once again, thanks.

Stick with me son, you'll go a long way

[Hailfire101]

Stick with me son, you'll go a long way

Hopefully 4000 miles to Thailand. lol

Buy I'm guessing getting the 1 year multiple visit visa is easy to get.

Been told its something like £25 and can get it at the consulate with my passport and proof of marriage?

Anyway, that'll be next year.

The laws may have changed by then... for better, or probably the worse. lol

[Arkady]

...

But I don’t understand why won't the Thai immigration give her an exit stamp on her British passport ...

The immigration officer was clearly wrong in denying her that exit stamp. We don't know his motives and any idea I might have about it would be idle speculation.

Can we idle speculate a little longer then? We know for a fact that the dual citizenship issue for Thai is a grey area with difference between men and women. Thai law doesn't allow dual citizenship except in special circumstances (that is also the case with many countries), and officers often turn a blind eye to the matter. So it seem credible that if there is a sweep (in one direction or to the other) about Immigration allowing Thai national travelling on foreign passport, that may depend from regulations known only to immigration, or even the office personal opinion (or understanding to call that a nicer name).

No idle speculation.

Explicit prohibition of dual nationality was done away in Thai law with a revision to the Thai Nationality Act in 1992. This essentially returned citizenship to Thai women who had lost it via marriage to a foreign male.

There have been two subsequent revisions to the act - 2008 and 2012, both of which have cast the net further and increased access to Thai nationality to those formerly deprived of it.

Just because the act does not explicitly say 'it is banned' does not make it a grey area. There are grey areas, but none which affect those who have married foreigners, or who were born to at least one Thai parent while also gaining the nationality of the other foreign parent.

Actually the automatic revocation of the Thai nationality of women who married foreigners came to an end with the 1965 Nationality Act or earlier. But in the 50s there were still a lot of announcements in the Royal Gazette of Thai (Chinese) women losing their Thai nationality for marrying (Chinese) foreigners. In the old days it was common for Chinese women born in Thailand to take up their right to Thai nationality, whereas many Chinese men didn't do so in order to avoid military service. They could easily get alien certificates instead which gave them permanent residence and there were no work permits or Foreign Business Act but they gave up their right to Thai nationality for ever, once they had applied for an alien certificate. The other catch was that their Thai wives lost their Thai nationality and had to become Chinese. Details of family have to registered on an alien certificate which is how the Thai Chinese wives would have been discovered.

Today there is what sounds like an explicit provision in the Thai Nationality Act that says that Thais who naturalise as aliens lose their Thai nationality. However, there are no supporting ministerial regulations as to how this should be done, nor is there any evidence that it ever has been done in the life of the current 1965 Nationality Act. That is not to say that ministerial regulations will never appear or that the law will never be changed to provide explicitly for automatic revocation in these circumstances. The MoI seems to hate the idea of dual nationality and is always trying to come with ways to make it more difficult that are probably shot down by all the big shots who either have dual nationality themselves or their children have it. The nationality department is part of the Internal Security Bureau which regards dual nationality as a security risk - the several thousand Malay Thais in the Deep South who have dual nationality being cited as an example, although nearly all of those have obtained a second nationality by fraud, since Malaysia has a constitutional prohibition on dual nationality and the courts can automatically revoke Malaysian nationality just on evidence of stamps or lack of them in a Malaysian passport.

So, it is as well to be aware of the ambivalent official attitude and know that the Immigration Bureau shares the views of the hawks at the MoI who would like to eliminate dual nationality. I never heard of a Thai Immigration officer with dual nationality, so they have nothing to lose. That means being discrete about having a second passport and never, never using a foreign passport to enter Thailand.

[joopthai]

My sister in law holds a duch passport, has a 30 day stamp but want to stay longer.

So I told her how to do (from your opinions), She not believed me and went to the Nakhon Ratchasima immigration

office and call me back that now She have a 1 year visa.