A Comparative Observation

[GuestHouse]

I was recently in the company of a group of young people, students at one of the very best state schools in the UK. We could have a debate on the range of quality of state schools in the UK, but please if you want to do that, start another thread - This is not a discussion about that subject.

For the record, and so the context is understood, these young people attend a state school with an extremely good reputation for academic excellence, the school is located in a very affluent area but is not exclusively a school for rich kids. That said, the post code selection ( school catchment area determining entrance) would, because of the schools location, suggest well off professional working parents - I know the children of a handful of extremely wealthy families (names most people in the UK would know) attend the school but I also know that the school has children from low income families.

What struck me, and this is the comparative observation, is the students I spoke with (17~18 years old) displayed non of the conspicuous consumption, brand name fixation that I see amongst students at a school here in Thailand which caters for a similar student audience. (Children of wealthy to rich families).

What struck me first was one of the young women was using a very cheap (cheapest available) phone, when I asked, non had an I-phone, non had a blackberry, non had an I-pad. When I asked they told me that only a couple of kids in the school had I-phones/blackberries and nobody had an I-pad (or at least these things were never seen at school).

Certainly non of the students I spoke to had their own car, all were learning to drive or had learned to drive, but non expected to get a car from their parents (their parents could certainly afford to buy them cars) - No kids at the school had a car.

Only one of these UK kids got driven to school, he lived several miles from the school with no direct public transport. The rest walked, took the school/public bus, one rode her bike to school.

No designer handbags, no designer shoes, no expensive watches.

Last weekend I attended a party at a Thai friend's house here in Thailand, his teenage daughter had a bunch of her friends along (big name international school kids) - these where a mixture of Thai and expat kids.

All but one turned up in their own car (Minis and Suzuki Swifts), all toting and obsessed with the must have I-phone/Blackberry/I-Pad, hideously expensive handbags, and of course expensive watches and jewellery.

The contrast with kids their age back home was stark - I thought at first it was a simple matter of unquestioning consumerism, but I think more a calculated wearing of badges - consumerism a statement that 'we are this set'.

Edited September 29, 2012 by GuestHouse

[rattler]

That's the problem with the Third world GH, lucky you ended up in Thailand

Im rather tired of the must have/s everywhere, about time things slowed way down, I mean do we really need any more than we have now?

Edited September 29, 2012 by rattler

[Thaddeus]

Status Quid.

A theory about the evolution of consumerism.

Stage One.

"I've just bought an iPad"

"Really, I must have one of those"

Stage Two.

"I've just bought an iPad"

"Really, can I have a look at it?"

Stage Three.

"I've just bought an iPad"

"Yawn"

[chiang mai]

IPad and IPhones are solutions looking for problems to solve, the marketing is so strong that most are convinced they must have such things, thinkers seem to be the exceptions.

[loong]

It is good to know that some youngsters feel comfortable enough about themselves that they have no need for status symbols.

I believe that many people suffer from a superiority complex and have to have the latest gadget or designer lable to reinforce this feeling of superiority. Unfortunately, their character is not strong enough to stand alone.

Most pathetic of all are those who buy fake designer goods in order to project some semblance of superiority

Edited September 29, 2012 by loong

[phuturatica]

Thailand is a very money orientated country. Money plays a big part in their lives. Also the poverty in Thailand is much bigger than in the UK so maybe they want to remind themselves that they are far away from that even though they live in a country where it is right under their noses in every day life.

[geriatrickid]

Interesting observation and I appreciate the point.

I have repeatedly told my Thai friends that until they set themselves free from their addiction to conspicuous consumption and the compulsive desire to be flashy, they will never attain the financial security and position they covet. The need for bling enslaves people. It doesn't matter if they are Thai or British.

At the end of the day, my comments fall on deaf ears. It is funny though. I may not have the fancy clothes or i5 or an ipad, but I am the one with the money.Perhaps the refusal to show discipline, and humility explains why so many people that have opportunities squander those opportunities and are doomed to poverty.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

I believe the above holds true.

[geriatrickid]

Thailand is a very money orientated country. Money plays a big part in their lives. Also the poverty in Thailand is much bigger than in the UK so maybe they want to remind themselves that they are far away from that even though they live in a country where it is right under their noses in every day life.

Poverty is relative. Yes, there is poverty in Thailand, horrific situations at that, yet, the poverty is not as crushing of the spirit as it is in the west. I think it is somewhat easier to be poor when one does not have to worry about paying the winter heating bill, or buying decent footwear to venture out in the cold. A poor Thai can get by with minimal clothing, whereas a person in the UK cannot. Basic food, is affordable to the working poor in Thailand. A characteristic of the western working poor is that they have a hard time accessing affordable healthy food such as vegetables. A bigger obstacle in Thailand is the rigid class system. Even if a Thai has money, if he or she is not connected, the money won't help much.

[JurgenG]

What is it about ? You want us to believe that rich kids in the west don't buy the latest electronic gadgets, fast cars and expensive designer cloth ? And don't act like dumb spoil brats ?

An other racist thread.

Boring

[JurgenG]

One of the main problem regarding these racist "dumb rich Thais" threads is that some posters, because of their "expertise", have access to the houses of people who will never invite them back home. And they are shocked by what they see.

The only thing they don't realize, it's the same back home, just they will never see it because they will never be invited.

[HeavyDrinker]

I'm actually very surprised that the OP who has been here longer than most has only just observed this.

Just observin'.....

[Bangkokhatter]

What is it about ? You want us to believe that rich kids in the west don't buy the latest electronic gadgets, fast cars and expensive designer cloth ? And don't act like dumb spoil brats ?

An other racist thread.

Boring

I fail to see any racism in the OP's comments, but i do agree there are plenty of spoil rich kids in the west .

[GuestHouse]

What is it about ? You want us to believe that rich kids in the west don't buy the latest electronic gadgets, fast cars and expensive designer cloth ? And don't act like dumb spoil brats ?

An other racist thread.

Boring

If you read my opening post you would know what its about.

You might also know that I have given no indication of the race of the kids in the UK school and I have explicitly stated that the kids at the Thailand end of this observation were both Thai AND expat.

I conclude your comments indicate you need help with your ability to read and/or help with a hypersensitivity you seem to have.

I have not made even the slightest suggestion that race has anything to do with my observation - but I do now suggest you go get the help you need.

Edited September 29, 2012 by GuestHouse

[Rob8891]

What is it about ? You want us to believe that rich kids in the west don't buy the latest electronic gadgets, fast cars and expensive designer cloth ? And don't act like dumb spoil brats ?

An other racist thread.

Boring

I fail to see any racism in the OP's comments, but i do agree there are plenty of spoil rich kids in the west .

I agree.... the OP was not thai-bashing, IMHO, but as a teacher in one of the best state schools in my part of the UK, I fail to see this observations on UK school kids. The wee darlings are tripping over their accoutrements, from the moment when mummy and daddy drop them off at school (well, half a mile is an excessively long walk....they might chip a nail) to the moment when they reappear to whisk them away in their chelsea tractors.

Perhaps strangely for such a good school, we have a schizophrenic catchment area, so have a complete cross section of society, from deprivation to priviledge, and evidence clearly suggests that consumerism is rampant throughout.

[F1fanatic]

What is it about ? You want us to believe that rich kids in the west don't buy the latest electronic gadgets, fast cars and expensive designer cloth ? And don't act like dumb spoil brats ?

An other racist thread.

Boring

I agree to a certain extent, but as always, it generally depends on the parents.

Those UK kids in a 'good' school (i.e. mainly well-off middle-class parents), are - in my experience - brought up to respect the value of education, thinking for oneself etc., and are therefore, less likely to be driven to 'show off' by flaunting wealth via the latest technology, designer clothes etc. It boils down to a core value of independence of thought/thinking things through?

[Time Traveller]

The really cool thing is that envy of their friends is driving the sales of the iPads in Thailand. That means Apple can spend less money on marketing but still increase their sales and profits! Great news for shareholders.

[canuckamuck]

Kids in the west grow up, in Thailand they just get older.

[kennedy]

Kids in the west grow up, in Thailand they just get older.

Just had to throw some more red meat for TV's to chew on eh?

[NeverSure]

It's a conundrum all right. Truth is that if I really wanted to live cheaply I could do it in the US. The problem is that in the US we simply don't accept the same lifestyle. Many, many things are cheaper in the US and let's start with autos. In a very small very rural town in a sparsely populated W. or midwest state or in S. Texas I could buy a home for $75k, and I could own the land that no one could cheat me out of. I could grow a big garden and barter my IT skills or even get paid well for them. I'm sure the local doctors and dentists and attorneys and medical clinic would be happy to meet me especially with my deep understanding of Hipaa. I wouldn't need a work permit to do something I'm not even allowed to do in the LOS.

I could go on and on but we do have freedoms to pursue our own interests here while our Thai retirement visas are very limiting. When on US soil I belong. My Medicare Advantage insurance (health) costs me $100 US per month with small deductibles. Health care is good and no waiting.

I have a gorgeous Ford F150 4 door 4x4 pickup that's loaded. I paid cash for it but I don't know if I can afford one in Thailand. I may be lucky to get a Ford Fiesta or whatever they are called. Maybe I'll be on a scooter.

I just bought a new 42" TV on sale for $400 and a new loaded 14" laptop (for Thailand) for another $400. Can I do that in the LOS? I don't even know.

It's a personal choice, but I have nothing left in the US to keep me here. No family I can stand. My friends have their own lives and wives. I've been to Thailand enough to believe I'm ready to go next year. Where is the only question remaining and I'll work on that by moving every couple of months until I get landed.

Give me 5 years in the LOS and I'll let you know. I hope it works because there's nothing left in the US for me worth keeping. I sure have nothing to come back for.

Fingers crossed.

BTW you folks are the greatest with all of your thoughts and information in various forums on here.

[JurgenG]

What is it about ? You want us to believe that rich kids in the west don't buy the latest electronic gadgets, fast cars and expensive designer cloth ? And don't act like dumb spoil brats ?

An other racist thread.

Boring

If you read my opening post you would know what its about.

You might also know that I have given no indication of the race of the kids in the UK school and I have explicitly stated that the kids at the Thailand end of this observation were both Thai AND expat.

I conclude your comments indicate you need help with your ability to read and/or help with a hypersensitivity you seem to have.

I have not made even the slightest suggestion that race has anything to do with my observation - but I do now suggest you go get the help you need.

So this is not racism. It's true, you talk about a "a mixture of Thai and expat kids". So what is it you try to compare ?

On the one hand you have the superior British culture, your culture, you talk about the "kids back home". On the other hand you have .... what ? You talk about Thailand, Thai friend .... But this is not racism, therefore not about Thailand. So what is it about ?

Edited September 29, 2012 by JurgenG

[F1fanatic]

Read GH's opening post again, and hopefully you'll come back with a reasonable comment to further the discussion - rather than a pointless attack.

If you think he is wrong, fine - explain why - rather than just posting that he is being racist.

[GuestHouse]

Its a comparative observation between exactly what I have reported it to be.

You can draw your own conclusions or if you like ignore the thread - you can't justifiably claim it to be in anyway racist.

[gazmat]

My son went to a decent British public school (thanks to the generosity of his step-dad I must add). He finished his A levels there this Summer. Most of the kids who attend are from wealthy, well-connected, upper-middle class families with a smattering of titled aristocracy for good measure.

These kids have everything: the best gadgets, laptops, phones, clothes, cars, handbags etc, etc.

I also know a few relatively wealthy Thais whose kids have the same kind of stuff.

The biggest difference I can see is that the posh British kids try to be extremely nonchalant and somewhat discreet about their valuable possessions (although they are aware of and privately relish their power as status symbols), whereas the Thai kids exuberantly flaunt them, take Instagram photos of them and excitedly inform the world on Facebook about each high value purchase they make or gift they are given.

I actually find the Thai kids' response to having all these cool, expensive and lovely things a bit more honest than the affected indifference of the posh British kids.

Sent from my Vertu Signature Cobra

[F1fanatic]

My son went to a decent British public school (thanks to the generosity of his step-dad I must add). He finished his A levels there this Summer. Most of the kids who attend are from wealthy, well-connected, upper-middle class families with a smattering of titled aristocracy for good measure.

These kids have everything: the best gadgets, laptops, phones, clothes, cars, handbags etc, etc.

I also know a few relatively wealthy Thais whose kids have the same kind of stuff.

The biggest difference I can see is that the posh British kids try to be extremely nonchalant and somewhat discreet about their valuable possessions (although they are aware of and privately relish their power as status symbols), whereas the Thai kids exuberantly flaunt them, take Instagram photos of them and excitedly inform the world on Facebook about each high value purchase they make or gift they are given.

I actually find the Thai kids' response to having all these cool, expensive and lovely things a bit more honest than the affected indifference of the posh British kids.

Sent from my Vertu Signature Cobra

But this thread is about UK 'good' State schools - not public schools?

Public schools are an entirely different matter as the environment/attitude is completely different.

[McMagus]

From my observations, young adults and younger adults seem to have a passion for brand. I have owned iphones but now have a Galaxy S3 ... which, when you look at the specs outguns the iphone. I like Mac products, don't get me wrong... but my point is people here seem to buy on brand loyalty and/or percieved brand exclusiveness, not on features. Is this because Thais are not as discerning as others? or is it because Apple have done a great job in their advertising. I think it may be tied up with face. Up on farm....not many iphones.

[bangkockney]

First, I think you are being slightly misleading in declaring the UK school a state school, when I'm pretty sure it is a grammar school. You can clear this up by posting the name. I believe the mind-set is inherently different, especially for kids whose entire education is through the independent system.

Second, I don't think comparing a non-fee-paying UK school v a fee-paying, international school is a good comparison. Better would be like for like, fee-paying v fee-paying.

I went to a fee-paying school in the UK and can relate to your observations of the international school.

First cars were Z3s, Gulf GTI MK 1s in near-new condition (!!!!), Boxters, Clio Sports etc. Mine was my mum's old 4 gear Ford Fiesta haha!

Sixth form was suits: Armani, Boss etc. Sure there were kids on bursaries, full scholarships or whose grandparents had saved all their lives to pay the fees, wearing supermarket suits.

No smartphones at the time, but people definitely had the latest Nokias.

Big money has to be spent on uniform and school trips: skiing (rec), CERN (physics), South of France and Alps (Geography). Language exchanges etc.

There was great pressure to drop cash to fit in, be it takeaways in the evenings or new laptops each year. And everyone did their best to display what they had.

[meom]

Maybe it’s not that much to do with the kids but more with the parents and their occupation.

Parents that send their kids to a big name int’l school are usually the type that travel a lot, have not much time/interest in their kids and compensate for this by giving them the latest gadgets.

[mania]

when I asked, non had an I-phone, non had a blackberry, non had an I-pad. When I asked they told me that only a couple of kids in the school had I-phones/blackberries and nobody had an I-pad (or at least these things were never seen at school).

I guess they are a smart bunch then

Because everyone knows Apple & Blackberry suck

So they all have Android based stuff eh?

Kidding aside this thread is just another thinly disguised backhander against Thailand/Thais

Yeah not racists but definitely a backhander with no purpose so it is called an "comparative observation"...But Carry On

Edited September 29, 2012 by mania

[samran]

GH

I think there are just different outlets for kids to show off amongst their peers. What constitutes 'cool' in one place may not resemble somewhere else.

I went to a fairly middle class catholic boys school in Australia and up until the final year there was competition to have all the right 'gear' in terms of clothes ( trainers etc.) pdespite having a fairly strict uniform policy.

But you know what the cool kids did in the final year? They all wore their uniforms properly. Socks up, shirts in, blazers worn at the appropriate time. That was the cool for that year. I half suspect it was cool not to be cool amongst your cohort ok kids that day.

[7by7]

Most people in the UK of that age group, based on my experience with my daughter, now 22, her friends, my nephews and nieces, the children of my neighbours and work colleagues etc.is that they do want the latest gadget, they do want to upgrade to the latest version phone or whatever.

I am also reminded of a conversation I had with a mother picking her child up from school in her car who lived about a quarter of a mile away from the school. I wont bore you with the details, except to say that her point was "Why should my child be the only one in his class who has to walk home!?"

(BTW, my daughter went to school and later to college and now university by public transport.)

Also, when I was a driving instructor 90% of my teenage pupils, from all backgrounds and income groups, either already had a car or were promised one when they had passed their test.

The young people the OP spoke to are, IMHO, the exception in the UK, not the norm.

Edited September 29, 2012 by 7by7