Goats Wanted,

[pigeonjake]

hi everyone,

i live in wangnamyen, in the sakeo province,

i would be very interested in buying 2 young nanny goats and a young billy,

i think it would be better to get them young then they can get used to us looking after them,

thank you jake

[bina]

buy pregnant nanny or one with a kid or two by her side; dont get a billy buck unless u know what u are doing and u have a place for him and/or someone who can manage him. dont underestimate a male goat, and if u get a breed htat has horns, make sure he was dehorned.

as for them getting used to you, goats learn easily and well, and food is the best incentive (small small treats work well. never, ever let your billy goat eat from your hands, or snatcfh food from you. )good idea to get a nanny with kid plus an other nanny, and raise the babies as yours, and get rid of one of the ones u bought, after she has given birth again. oh,and u dont need a billy goat if u can get straws of semen from some one else that raises large amounts of goats, or they hve a male to breed with. males are a waste of food cause the only time u need them is for when goats are in season. rest of the time they are a pain in the neck to handle and keep.

my five cents.

bina

[pigeonjake]

^{thanks bina,}

^{i do understand you, my mum had a farm in uk and we had most everything so im used to all, well most animals, if you see from another post i was the first to mention about goats not liking wet ground,}

^{i understand evrything your saying, but i dont think ide be able to get the straws round me, as im yet to see any goats,}

^{ill give google a go and see what comes up,}

^{but thank you again,}

^jake

[thaipak]

^{thanks bina,}

^{i do understand you, my mum had a farm in uk and we had most everything so im used to all, well most animals, if you see from another post i was the first to mention about goats not liking wet ground,}

^{i understand evrything your saying, but i dont think ide be able to get the straws round me, as im yet to see any goats,}

^{ill give google a go and see what comes up,}

^{but thank you again,}

^jake

#

My goat farm is 40 km before Khon Kaen city on Mitrapab road. You can call me on 081-717-5677 to discuss anything.

[thaipak]

^{thanks bina,}

^{i do understand you, my mum had a farm in uk and we had most everything so im used to all, well most animals, if you see from another post i was the first to mention about goats not liking wet ground,}

^{i understand evrything your saying, but i dont think ide be able to get the straws round me, as im yet to see any goats,}

^{ill give google a go and see what comes up,}

^{but thank you again,}

^jake

My goat farm is 40 km before Khon Kaen city on Mitrapab road. You can call me on 081-717-5677 to discuss anything.

ALI

[pigeonjake]

ok mate, ill be in touch when i get back,\

thank you for getting to me on this,

jake

[chantsurfer]

What are a couple of milking goats worth in Thailand?

(For personal consumption)

[swissie]

Had some corn on my land that has been harvested by now. What has remained is grass and a few shrubs. Have tryed to engage my neighbors goats to eat the grass and whatever weeds there are,

But for some reason they are not much interested in what I have to offer. Instead they prefer the taller grass/weeds on the adjacent property. Had 5 people to try to usher them back to my land, but they (the goats, not the 5 people) always had the urge to return to the adjacent land.

Always thought, that goats will eat everything as long as it is green. (Especially if they are constrained in a certain grazing aerea and supposed to eat there).

Somehow, even goats must have their preferences. But what makes the preference over one sort of "green stuff" over an other? Anyone?

Cheers.

[bina]

pay attention, please: goats are foragers not grazers. they eat things that are above their heads or head height for the most part; they prefer clean food, and branches twigs leaves roughage, not pastureland like in movies : short green grass. they also learn what is tasty and tend to know what is poisonous although it is a learned trait that a mother teaches her kids so goats do die of poison, and do eat the wrong things. goats also need supplemantary feed if all they have to eat is a few weeds and a shrub. when and if they finish eating what they like in one yard they will move to the next. also, goats for the most part will not eat on plants or any other feed that has been pee'd or shat apon, which is why so much pellet feed goes to waste when kids jump in the feed trough and stamp on the food. the goats just shove the nasty food aside to get at the fresh food. they will eat plastic and hanging fringes , shoe laces, long hair, rope , anything that is handing and loose (that is head height or higher), and will also garbage graze from the ground things like plastic bags (dont ask me why, but once a goat starts to swallow she cant reverse the process hence the bags get in her rumen and she dies slowly, after a week or so, or more even.)

sheep eat with heads down, but prefer proper grass type foods. donkeys will eat forage that goats wont eat and also what horses wont or shouldnt eat, and have fewer problems with colic. camels prefer forage, and can deal with things that goats and donkeys cant or wont eat. and they also have rumens.

also, different breeds of goats have a genetic preference for different food since they were developed for different climates. there are mediterranean types (prefer leafy twiggy dry forage) and there are the european tyeps (which eat more grassy/pasturey type foods).

sick goats will turn down all types of feed apart from fresh leaves: grape leaves, carob tree leaves, habiscus is a favorite also, and non poisonous.

when serving forage that u cut and feed to a goat there is a higher chance of poisoning them as they then dont pick and choose which leaves and stems they are shoving in their mouths (i poisoned mine twice that way, when cutting down forage for mine, and including some -not known to me- poisonous shrubs). one leaf of oleander can kill an animal (or baby). other plants are slowly toxic , causing anemia and other affects in goats and sheep if eaten over a long period of time (not sure if thsoe plants exist in thailand, but there are probably similar types with similar affects.)

to control parasites, moving goats from grazing area to grazing area, always forward , (not to graze on already grazed areas) is the best method.

[swissie]

pay attention, please: goats are foragers not grazers. they eat things that are above their heads or head height for the most part; they prefer clean food, and branches twigs leaves roughage, not pastureland like in movies : short green grass. they also learn what is tasty and tend to know what is poisonous although it is a learned trait that a mother teaches her kids so goats do die of poison, and do eat the wrong things. goats also need supplemantary feed if all they have to eat is a few weeds and a shrub. when and if they finish eating what they like in one yard they will move to the next. also, goats for the most part will not eat on plants or any other feed that has been pee'd or shat apon, which is why so much pellet feed goes to waste when kids jump in the feed trough and stamp on the food. the goats just shove the nasty food aside to get at the fresh food. they will eat plastic and hanging fringes , shoe laces, long hair, rope , anything that is handing and loose (that is head height or higher), and will also garbage graze from the ground things like plastic bags (dont ask me why, but once a goat starts to swallow she cant reverse the process hence the bags get in her rumen and she dies slowly, after a week or so, or more even.)

sheep eat with heads down, but prefer proper grass type foods. donkeys will eat forage that goats wont eat and also what horses wont or shouldnt eat, and have fewer problems with colic. camels prefer forage, and can deal with things that goats and donkeys cant or wont eat. and they also have rumens.

also, different breeds of goats have a genetic preference for different food since they were developed for different climates. there are mediterranean types (prefer leafy twiggy dry forage) and there are the european tyeps (which eat more grassy/pasturey type foods).

sick goats will turn down all types of feed apart from fresh leaves: grape leaves, carob tree leaves, habiscus is a favorite also, and non poisonous.

when serving forage that u cut and feed to a goat there is a higher chance of poisoning them as they then dont pick and choose which leaves and stems they are shoving in their mouths (i poisoned mine twice that way, when cutting down forage for mine, and including some -not known to me- poisonous shrubs). one leaf of oleander can kill an animal (or baby). other plants are slowly toxic , causing anemia and other affects in goats and sheep if eaten over a long period of time (not sure if thsoe plants exist in thailand, but there are probably similar types with similar affects.)

to control parasites, moving goats from grazing area to grazing area, always forward , (not to graze on already grazed areas) is the best method.

Very helpful. Now it becomes clear, why they are not interested in what I have to offer.

My understanding that "they eat everything as long it's green" dates back to a vacation in Greece where the tourist-guide explained, that Greece (including it's many islands) were green and luciuous a long time ago. = But too many goats have turned most of the country into a semi-desert.

As mentioned above, some breeds might feed closer to the ground. If that was the case, it could actually be the reason that Greece today for the most part is a half-desert.

Thanks & cheers.

[loong]

I would guess that once an excessive amount of goats had stripped all the preferred forage, they would have no choice but eat whatever is available.

[bina]

greece, like israel, was just overpopulated and over grazed with less water to provide plants to grow and provide forage. goats eat trees, and stip the bark off the trees, so most trees in israel and greece that are in areas where goats graze are empty of twigs and branches from the height of a goat standing on hind legs to reach the good tasting leaves. less trees, means less water (trees die, dont hold soil, soil errodes, water just runs off and therefore less plants or only plants that can deal with more arid soil)...

all the area round my kibbutz , near jerusalem was once, (in biblical times up to about ottoman times) the main 'stopover' from syria and lebanon to jerusalem and even on to egypt, for grazing, caravans spice trade etc. we wereand are known as the land of a 1000 springs (many of them under our apartments unforutnately for us). lots of goats trample down the plants, and the delicate semi arid oriented plants and trees that will grow in this area ; this area, like in greece, was also heavily farmed from before even bibiical times, with grapes, usuing terrace style irrigation. as more and more people and herds came to graze and settle, more land was trampled, less shrubbery, trees, undergrowth, less forage, therefore the goats and sheep (as beduins mostly ahve mixed herds)and donkeys were forced to eat more of the lower level forage, leaving more and more bare areas. by the late 1800's the whole area was desert, not because it was originally desert, but because the semi arid lands had been overgrazed, over used and the rest is history.

the same goes for greece btw.

nowadays,here in israel, herds of goats and sheep are used to maintain forest areas here, first the goats and then the sheep follow, or mixe dherds.

the negev is a prime example of overgrazing, and the lack of good grazing land for the beduins (who are no longer able /or want to maitain nomadic lifestyles)... therefore they have to spend money or providing forage (hay/fodder/water) for their herds.

that is just basic info... it is obviously more complex, political and biological, but that is the main jist of it.

greece, cyprus, all the semi arid mediterrenean areas suffered the same fate of over grazing, improper grazing practices, also, water ways (in summer no rain, in winter 'wadis' flow and water can be used by trees and plants that are buitl for this climate) got diverted, paved over, and also too many long droughts mean that areas that used to have good forage no longer have forage. by maintaining large herds (by feeding extra fodder in winter), the pressure on the land remains, although the land itself cannot maintain forage for the large herds. the land gets stamped down, and the cycle continues.

also, nowadays, although donkeys used to be used as transportation, they are now thrown out during summer or non foraging seasons (when tourist trade is reduced , donkey rides/caravans arent needed,or the beduins for instance dont want them anymore cause a pickup/tender truck is more prestigious) and there are quite a few semi feral herds of 'dumped' donkeys, who also graze. howver, a donkey rips at the grassy plants and tramples the grownd more heavily. sheep rip grass also, goats bite at the forage, leaf by leaf.

goats that have no choice but to eat whatever is available will do one of two things. they will become anorexic i.e. they will only pick and choose what is 'tasty' to them, and lose weight, become sick, and die slowly, sort of wasting away, their rumens shut down and that is the end of them, or they will eat lots of junk, and since they are eating from the ground, get parasites, get sick, rumen shuts down,etc.... goats that will eat 'whatever is left' will not be worth keeping. they will not produce milk that is worth drinking nor in amounts that are worth keeping the goat, they will not breed well, and u will lose kids due to 'FTT failure to thrive ' type syndromes. also, goats, once sick, are hard to restore to good health, they need lots of TLC to get them back to standard, and not worth the financial investment.

that is goats in the mediterreanean in a nutshell.

bina

[swissie]

greece, like israel, was just overpopulated and over grazed with less water to provide plants to grow and provide forage. goats eat trees, and stip the bark off the trees, so most trees in israel and greece that are in areas where goats graze are empty of twigs and branches from the height of a goat standing on hind legs to reach the good tasting leaves. less trees, means less water (trees die, dont hold soil, soil errodes, water just runs off and therefore less plants or only plants that can deal with more arid soil)...

all the area round my kibbutz , near jerusalem was once, (in biblical times up to about ottoman times) the main 'stopover' from syria and lebanon to jerusalem and even on to egypt, for grazing, caravans spice trade etc. we wereand are known as the land of a 1000 springs (many of them under our apartments unforutnately for us). lots of goats trample down the plants, and the delicate semi arid oriented plants and trees that will grow in this area ; this area, like in greece, was also heavily farmed from before even bibiical times, with grapes, usuing terrace style irrigation. as more and more people and herds came to graze and settle, more land was trampled, less shrubbery, trees, undergrowth, less forage, therefore the goats and sheep (as beduins mostly ahve mixed herds)and donkeys were forced to eat more of the lower level forage, leaving more and more bare areas. by the late 1800's the whole area was desert, not because it was originally desert, but because the semi arid lands had been overgrazed, over used and the rest is history.

the same goes for greece btw.

nowadays,here in israel, herds of goats and sheep are used to maintain forest areas here, first the goats and then the sheep follow, or mixe dherds.

the negev is a prime example of overgrazing, and the lack of good grazing land for the beduins (who are no longer able /or want to maitain nomadic lifestyles)... therefore they have to spend money or providing forage (hay/fodder/water) for their herds.

that is just basic info... it is obviously more complex, political and biological, but that is the main jist of it.

greece, cyprus, all the semi arid mediterrenean areas suffered the same fate of over grazing, improper grazing practices, also, water ways (in summer no rain, in winter 'wadis' flow and water can be used by trees and plants that are buitl for this climate) got diverted, paved over, and also too many long droughts mean that areas that used to have good forage no longer have forage. by maintaining large herds (by feeding extra fodder in winter), the pressure on the land remains, although the land itself cannot maintain forage for the large herds. the land gets stamped down, and the cycle continues.

also, nowadays, although donkeys used to be used as transportation, they are now thrown out during summer or non foraging seasons (when tourist trade is reduced , donkey rides/caravans arent needed,or the beduins for instance dont want them anymore cause a pickup/tender truck is more prestigious) and there are quite a few semi feral herds of 'dumped' donkeys, who also graze. howver, a donkey rips at the grassy plants and tramples the grownd more heavily. sheep rip grass also, goats bite at the forage, leaf by leaf.

goats that have no choice but to eat whatever is available will do one of two things. they will become anorexic i.e. they will only pick and choose what is 'tasty' to them, and lose weight, become sick, and die slowly, sort of wasting away, their rumens shut down and that is the end of them, or they will eat lots of junk, and since they are eating from the ground, get parasites, get sick, rumen shuts down,etc.... goats that will eat 'whatever is left' will not be worth keeping. they will not produce milk that is worth drinking nor in amounts that are worth keeping the goat, they will not breed well, and u will lose kids due to 'FTT failure to thrive ' type syndromes. also, goats, once sick, are hard to restore to good health, they need lots of TLC to get them back to standard, and not worth the financial investment.

that is goats in the mediterreanean in a nutshell.

bina

With all the damage done, would it be possible to reverse the whole thing?

On second thought, I guess not, because it probably would take some form of irrigation (at lest in the early stages). I just don't think there is enough ground water left in most of those aereas.

Cheers.

[swissie]

greece, like israel, was just overpopulated and over grazed with less water to provide plants to grow and provide forage. goats eat trees, and stip the bark off the trees, so most trees in israel and greece that are in areas where goats graze are empty of twigs and branches from the height of a goat standing on hind legs to reach the good tasting leaves. less trees, means less water (trees die, dont hold soil, soil errodes, water just runs off and therefore less plants or only plants that can deal with more arid soil)...

all the area round my kibbutz , near jerusalem was once, (in biblical times up to about ottoman times) the main 'stopover' from syria and lebanon to jerusalem and even on to egypt, for grazing, caravans spice trade etc. we wereand are known as the land of a 1000 springs (many of them under our apartments unforutnately for us). lots of goats trample down the plants, and the delicate semi arid oriented plants and trees that will grow in this area ; this area, like in greece, was also heavily farmed from before even bibiical times, with grapes, usuing terrace style irrigation. as more and more people and herds came to graze and settle, more land was trampled, less shrubbery, trees, undergrowth, less forage, therefore the goats and sheep (as beduins mostly ahve mixed herds)and donkeys were forced to eat more of the lower level forage, leaving more and more bare areas. by the late 1800's the whole area was desert, not because it was originally desert, but because the semi arid lands had been overgrazed, over used and the rest is history.

the same goes for greece btw.

nowadays,here in israel, herds of goats and sheep are used to maintain forest areas here, first the goats and then the sheep follow, or mixe dherds.

the negev is a prime example of overgrazing, and the lack of good grazing land for the beduins (who are no longer able /or want to maitain nomadic lifestyles)... therefore they have to spend money or providing forage (hay/fodder/water) for their herds.

that is just basic info... it is obviously more complex, political and biological, but that is the main jist of it.

greece, cyprus, all the semi arid mediterrenean areas suffered the same fate of over grazing, improper grazing practices, also, water ways (in summer no rain, in winter 'wadis' flow and water can be used by trees and plants that are buitl for this climate) got diverted, paved over, and also too many long droughts mean that areas that used to have good forage no longer have forage. by maintaining large herds (by feeding extra fodder in winter), the pressure on the land remains, although the land itself cannot maintain forage for the large herds. the land gets stamped down, and the cycle continues.

also, nowadays, although donkeys used to be used as transportation, they are now thrown out during summer or non foraging seasons (when tourist trade is reduced , donkey rides/caravans arent needed,or the beduins for instance dont want them anymore cause a pickup/tender truck is more prestigious) and there are quite a few semi feral herds of 'dumped' donkeys, who also graze. howver, a donkey rips at the grassy plants and tramples the grownd more heavily. sheep rip grass also, goats bite at the forage, leaf by leaf.

goats that have no choice but to eat whatever is available will do one of two things. they will become anorexic i.e. they will only pick and choose what is 'tasty' to them, and lose weight, become sick, and die slowly, sort of wasting away, their rumens shut down and that is the end of them, or they will eat lots of junk, and since they are eating from the ground, get parasites, get sick, rumen shuts down,etc.... goats that will eat 'whatever is left' will not be worth keeping. they will not produce milk that is worth drinking nor in amounts that are worth keeping the goat, they will not breed well, and u will lose kids due to 'FTT failure to thrive ' type syndromes. also, goats, once sick, are hard to restore to good health, they need lots of TLC to get them back to standard, and not worth the financial investment.

that is goats in the mediterreanean in a nutshell.

bina

With all the damage done, would it be possible to reverse the whole thing?

On second thought, I guess not, because it probably would take some form of irrigation (at lest in the early stages). I just don't think there is enough ground water left in most of those aereas.

Cheers.

Come to think of it, I believe that back in 1996 or so, the University of the Negev in Israel had an experimental project going with a type of grass that can tolerate unusually high concentrations of salt in the water. So, if I remember correctly, the idea was to use sea water (80%) mixed with fresh water (20%). I have not followed up on it, but I can imagine, that with all that salt accumulating in the soil over time, it made the whole thing something like "mission impossible".

Possibly Bina is familiar with the outcome of this experiment.

Cheers.

[aussieruss]

Hi Jake what type of welding are you in to.I do tig.mig.ark

Just so I have info for meeting no 15 maybe I can have meeting no 16 rgds Russell

Sent from my GT-I9100T using BkkThaivisa Connect App

[swissie]

Hi Jake what type of welding are you in to.I do tig.mig.ark

Just so I have info for meeting no 15 maybe I can have meeting no 16 rgds Russell

Sent from my GT-I9100T using BkkThaivisa Connect App

Not sure, but should this not appear in the sub-forum "Welding in Thailand" and not in the "Farming in Thailand" Forum?

Cheers.

[bina]

aussie russ u can personal message people to talk to them, w/o posting in an unrelated thread...

swissie, yes, of course the areas around us are now much better, but it has taken years of planned plantings (used to be horrible pine trees and similar which in turn causes huge forest fires here , not really causes but pine trees and fires ... look it up to understand what im talking about-- now native desert/arid land trees and shrubs are planted whihc are much more effective in holding soil, containing water, preventing forest fires of devastating proportions, and creating, once again, forage areas, and 'green in the desert'. however, there is only so much of this that can be done. if u are interested, and this is off topic, look up rain line and jerusalem, as u can see there is desert, cold desert, rain lines, and semi arid areas...

i will look up the grass project. btw, i remember vaguely that korat and udon thani have problems with alkaline water, and salt flats, or salinated water in deep dug wells, due to improper farming, over grazing or over foresting, etc... so actually a good thought to research, is the forage in these areas saltier then in othe areas? since there is immense deforestation in thailand resulting in horrible changes to land and farm areas. korat is on a plataeu.

good questions, a different thread is needed...

bina

israel.