Australian, 93, Faces Sexual Assault Charges In Thailand

[Nisa]

The only argument you need to understand, and the mention of it seems to be upsetting you is that in a civil law abiding society, which most of us are from you CANNOT and must not start calling for someone to be castrated, left in stocks to die in public, hung and calling someone a scumbag pedo when they have not yet been tried and found guilty. If he is found guilty during due legal process then punishment will follow, and all those that want to call for a prolonged painful death for the guy can fill their boots, but until then it is all getting a bit much. Everyone needs to step off the outrage bus and let the legal process follow it's course. The blog site says nothing that adds to the gravity of evidence against Kraus, the 'Mother' isn't exactly going to say anything to a blogger coming into town asking questions. And I agree, Thailand needs to push some laws through as a matter of priority, because even if they have found images on Kraus' computer or in his house, it appears there is no law against that, so it is of no consequence, however disgusting we all find it.

Get real - people in the west do this all the time (hang-em high comments) in the west both in private conversation, on the internet and in the media. As long as one is expressing their opinion, it is called free speech. It is amazing what you hear and see people saying in civil society when it comes to an entire religious group and not just those who are accused terrorism. Should people like this be on a jury or a judge, of course not but lets not pretend these comments coming from posters here were not a learned behavior in "civil" societies.

[tropo]

At 93 you would think he would know better either way considering the reputation Thailand has for these things. Guilty or not he would seem to be his own worst enemy. As for respecting your elders , i'm all for it as long as they don't have their dick in children !!

Another poster automatically assumes this guy was having intercourse with children. Talk about jumping to conclusions - there was no mention of sex.

[GentlemanJim]

Here's my last word on this subject......each and every person on this thread that thought they would have a go at me bookmark this and come back to me after the trial......this report is from Destiny Rescue,

http://www.destinyre...ught-to-justice

Here's the line that will put an end to all of these stupid defences..............

“When Thai police first arrested Kraus two years ago on rape charges, they alleged they seized from him more than 100 photographs of naked children, including some of him posing with them. They alleged he emailed some pictures overseas, suggesting he was part of an international paedophilia network.”

In a court room soon photographs of this scumbag posing naked with little girls will be displayed........this little detail may explain why there has been a relative silence on this matter by the Australian authorities, they know he has been caught bang to rights.

What say you apologists now, eh?

The term apologists is getting really offensive now! If they have the photo's, good, show them and jail him, but you have to wait until they show the photo's, because as the article says, it is all alleged. People are not being apologists when they are simply saying he has not been found guilty yet. That is a principle that law abiding societies were founded on.

[Nisa]

At 93 you would think he would know better either way considering the reputation Thailand has for these things. Guilty or not he would seem to be his own worst enemy. As for respecting your elders , i'm all for it as long as they don't have their dick in children !!

Another poster automatically assumes this guy was having intercourse with children. Talk about jumping to conclusions - there was no mention of sex.

Actually he is accused of sex crimes but one doesn't have to have intercourse to rape or molest somebody.

[smokie36]

Here's my last word on this subject......each and every person on this thread that thought they would have a go at me bookmark this and come back to me after the trial......this report is from Destiny Rescue,

http://www.destinyre...ught-to-justice

Here's the line that will put an end to all of these stupid defences..............

“When Thai police first arrested Kraus two years ago on rape charges, they alleged they seized from him more than 100 photographs of naked children, including some of him posing with them. They alleged he emailed some pictures overseas, suggesting he was part of an international paedophilia network.”

In a court room soon photographs of this scumbag posing naked with little girls will be displayed........this little detail may explain why there has been a relative silence on this matter by the Australian authorities, they know he has been caught bang to rights.

What say you apologists now, eh?

I would also be interested to see a response to the content of this post, rather than an attack on the poster, which seems to be becoming the angle here sadly for some.

[smokie36]

Here's my last word on this subject......each and every person on this thread that thought they would have a go at me bookmark this and come back to me after the trial......this report is from Destiny Rescue,

http://www.destinyre...ught-to-justice

Here's the line that will put an end to all of these stupid defences..............

“When Thai police first arrested Kraus two years ago on rape charges, they alleged they seized from him more than 100 photographs of naked children, including some of him posing with them. They alleged he emailed some pictures overseas, suggesting he was part of an international paedophilia network.”

In a court room soon photographs of this scumbag posing naked with little girls will be displayed........this little detail may explain why there has been a relative silence on this matter by the Australian authorities, they know he has been caught bang to rights.

What say you apologists now, eh?

The term apologists is getting really offensive now! If they have the photo's, good, show them and jail him, but you have to wait until they show the photo's, because as the article says, it is all alleged. People are not being apologists when they are simply saying he has not been found guilty yet. That is a principle that law abiding societies were founded on.

Posters are giving their opinion Jim...not donning wigs and convicting anyone.

[theblether]

No it's not just you endure.......I'm stunned at some of the lines and arguments that I have seen put forth on this thread, just as I am every time a related thread comes up. On the subject of being stunned I was reading this article in connection with this case and two lines jumped out at me, however I will deal with them after providing the link and pointing out some detail on this case.

From Wiser.org, a general report about paedophile activity in the Chiang Mai area.......

http://fr.wiser.org/...de38500689425bf

If you don't have time to read it all here is a comment in regards to this particular case.......

" Karl Kraus is alleged to have lured girls into his modest rundown bungalow in Doi Saket near Chiang Mai. Just a few houses away, I met the mother of the four girls Karl Kraus is accused of abusing. She denied his claim that she is trying to extort money from him. Instead she breaks down and weeps as she goes into harrowing detail about the ordeal her daughters endured. The youngest girl Kraus is accused of abusing is just seven years old. "

The body of evidence against this man is far wider and deeper than some of you are prepared to believe, you are far too fast to listen to the bleatings of a guilty man, " It wasn't me Guv ", just wait until the contents of the computer are poured out in court.

Okay, here's the next bit I found utterly amazing...............

"There is no specific law about having child pornography in possession," he said. "Thailand should issue the new law about child pornography specifically."

If that is true that is quite ridiculous and unbelievable........that should be on the top of Yingluck's agenda........here's the next line, which you would hope would have been lost in translation, or intent......I can't believe it is literally true.

( Police ) "Col. Apichart has this message to pedophiles thinking of coming to Thailand: "I would welcome them to come here, I'm looking for them and if they think they can escape let's try. I will get them one way or another. I will make sure they get punished."

Surely the police should be sending out a message which is don't come to Thailand, as you will be caught!! Breathtaking stuff......

Blether

The only argument you need to understand, and the mention of it seems to be upsetting you is that in a civil law abiding society, which most of us are from you CANNOT and must not start calling for someone to be castrated, left in stocks to die in public, hung and calling someone a scumbag pedo when they have not yet been tried and found guilty. If he is found guilty during due legal process then punishment will follow, and all those that want to call for a prolonged painful death for the guy can fill their boots, but until then it is all getting a bit much. Everyone needs to step off the outrage bus and let the legal process follow it's course. The blog site says nothing that adds to the gravity of evidence against Kraus, the 'Mother' isn't exactly going to say anything to a blogger coming into town asking questions. And I agree, Thailand needs to push some laws through as a matter of priority, because even if they have found images on Kraus' computer or in his house, it appears there is no law against that, so it is of no consequence, however disgusting we all find it.

Pedophilia is wrong and must not be tolerated in any society claiming to be civil and modern, but lynch mob mentality is also wrong, and despite this clearly being a very emotive subject there are a few chill pills that need to be taken all round.

A major issue that comes out time and time again in these cases is parental supervision, or lack of it. In our town there is an 11 year old girl who is pregnant and the parents were round at the school verbally abusing her teachers saying it was the teachers fault for not teaching their daughter properly !!!

Laws need changing and tightening, and parents need to start being parents and the law needs to come down heavily on those found guilty of crimes against young children.

Give it a by with the legal niceties GentlemanJim, we're not in Scotland now arguing about pure law, it's the Wild West, and the bad guys are raping little girls

Here's my last word on this subject......each and every person on this thread that thought they would have a go at me bookmark this and come back to me after the trial......this report is from Destiny Rescue,

http://www.destinyre...ught-to-justice

Here's the line that will put an end to all of these stupid defences..............

“When Thai police first arrested Kraus two years ago on rape charges, they alleged they seized from him more than 100 photographs of naked children, including some of him posing with them. They alleged he emailed some pictures overseas, suggesting he was part of an international paedophilia network.”

In a court room soon photographs of this scumbag posing naked with little girls will be displayed........this little detail may explain why there has been a relative silence on this matter by the Australian authorities, they know he has been caught bang to rights.

What say you apologists now, eh?

The term apologists is getting really offensive now! If they have the photo's, good, show them and jail him, but you have to wait until they show the photo's, because as the article says, it is all alleged. People are not being apologists when they are simply saying he has not been found guilty yet. That is a principle that law abiding societies were founded on.

If the guy hadn't ran away he would have been in court by now.......give it a by with all this pure law crap GJ, this guy was a fugitive from justice, and now he is back to explain to the courts why he has photos of him posing with naked little girls.

[tropo]

At 93 you would think he would know better either way considering the reputation Thailand has for these things. Guilty or not he would seem to be his own worst enemy. As for respecting your elders , i'm all for it as long as they don't have their dick in children !!

Another poster automatically assumes this guy was having intercourse with children. Talk about jumping to conclusions - there was no mention of sex.

Actually he is accused of sex crimes but one doesn't have to have intercourse to rape or molest somebody.

Thank you for stating the obvious, however my comment was a reply to a post which mentions "dick in children".

[smokie36]

At 93 you would think he would know better either way considering the reputation Thailand has for these things. Guilty or not he would seem to be his own worst enemy. As for respecting your elders , i'm all for it as long as they don't have their dick in children !!

Another poster automatically assumes this guy was having intercourse with children. Talk about jumping to conclusions - there was no mention of sex.

Actually he is accused of sex crimes but one doesn't have to have intercourse to rape or molest somebody.

Thank you for stating the obvious, however my comment was a reply to a post which mentions "dick in children".

Just the terminology here is sickening enough. Give it a rest will ya?

[theblether]

My first post was a fair reflection of the case......now you have stuck your oar in the water let's hear your case for the defence......go ahead, you seem determined to defend this guy.

I'm not defending or condemning him. I'll leave that up to the courts, something you should do instead of making award winning posts on here.

“When Thai police first arrested Kraus two years ago on rape charges, they alleged they seized from him more than 100 photographs of naked children, including some of him posing with them. They alleged he emailed some pictures overseas, suggesting he was part of an international paedophilia network.”

I'll condemn paedophile criminals any time I like.........

[GentlemanJim]

If the guy hadn't ran away he would have been in court by now.......give it a by with all this pure law crap GJ, this guy was a fugitive from justice, and now he is back to explain to the courts why he has photos of him posing with naked little girls.

It's the pure law 'crap' as you put it that will see him in jail or not, and if the police have the photo's then good, there will be little explaining to do that will justify it and he will go down which will be the correct verdict.

[Nisa]

So, the cops set the guy up with bogus charges but for some reason don't hedge their bet the bogus charges won't stick by also charging him with fleeing while on bond and immigration/border crossing related charges.

[theblether]

If the guy hadn't ran away he would have been in court by now.......give it a by with all this pure law crap GJ, this guy was a fugitive from justice, and now he is back to explain to the courts why he has photos of him posing with naked little girls.

It's the pure law 'crap' as you put it that will see him in jail or not, and if the police have the photo's then good, there will be little explaining to do that will justify it and he will go down which will be the correct verdict.

Review your earlier posts GJ, you came into this thread all guns blazing, but you were shooting at the wrong guys.

[GentlemanJim]

If the guy hadn't ran away he would have been in court by now.......give it a by with all this pure law crap GJ, this guy was a fugitive from justice, and now he is back to explain to the courts why he has photos of him posing with naked little girls.

It's the pure law 'crap' as you put it that will see him in jail or not, and if the police have the photo's then good, there will be little explaining to do that will justify it and he will go down which will be the correct verdict.

Review your earlier posts GJ, you came into this thread all guns blazing, but you were shooting at the wrong guys.

Blether

I came onto this thread saying that it is wrong to have lynch mob mentality when someone has not been tried yet in a court of law. His day will come...soon. That isn't exactly guns blazing is it?

Anyway you said your last words on this subject were in post 118

[theblether]

If the guy hadn't ran away he would have been in court by now.......give it a by with all this pure law crap GJ, this guy was a fugitive from justice, and now he is back to explain to the courts why he has photos of him posing with naked little girls.

It's the pure law 'crap' as you put it that will see him in jail or not, and if the police have the photo's then good, there will be little explaining to do that will justify it and he will go down which will be the correct verdict.

Review your earlier posts GJ, you came into this thread all guns blazing, but you were shooting at the wrong guys.

Blether

I came onto this thread saying that it is wrong to have lynch mob mentality when someone has not been tried yet in a court of law. His day will come...soon. That isn't exactly guns blazing is it?

Anyway you said your last words on this subject were in post 118

You should know by now not to listen to a word I say

[tropo]

Just the terminology here is sickening enough. Give it a rest will ya?

Why don't you give it a rest instead of bringing it up over and over in quotes?

[smokie36]

Just the terminology here is sickening enough. Give it a rest will ya?

Why don't you give it a rest instead of bringing it up over and over in quotes?

A truly bizarre reply.

[theblether]

Just the terminology here is sickening enough. Give it a rest will ya?

Why don't you give it a rest instead of bringing it up over and over in quotes?

A truly bizarre reply.

+1

Maybe Tropo can explain the case for the defence, he's been asked to do so twice already........maybe he can explain this.....

“When Thai police first arrested Kraus two years ago on rape charges, they alleged they seized from him more than 100 photographs of naked children, including some of him posing with them. They alleged he emailed some pictures overseas, suggesting he was part of an international paedophilia network.”

That information is all over the internet, and has been reported in respected journals all over the World, this guy who has already admitted to being involved in a rape case before in Thailand, and the last time he cried....." it was a set up to extort money from me ".

What's his cry this time? " it's a set up to extort money from me ".......this guy is now accused of multiple rapes, he's been caught with indecent images on his PC, and he has been caught with photos of himself posing with little girls.

Some people need to explain their determination to defend this rapist and paedophile.

[tropo]

Just the terminology here is sickening enough. Give it a rest will ya?

Why don't you give it a rest instead of bringing it up over and over in quotes?

A truly bizarre reply.

Not at all. You complained about a phrase which sickened you, yet you quoted this phrase twice in your reply.

So as not to risk sickening you further, I won't repeat it again - just refer to post #131.

... now perhaps you could give it a rest, will ya?

[tropo]

+1

Maybe Tropo can explain the case for the defence, he's been asked to do so twice already........maybe he can explain this.....

Tropo does not want to get involved in the case. Tropo feels it is up to the court to decide. Tropo stated this earlier so quit asking him.

[endure]

Just the terminology here is sickening enough. Give it a rest will ya?

Why don't you give it a rest instead of bringing it up over and over in quotes?

A truly bizarre reply.

+1

Maybe Tropo can explain the case for the defence, he's been asked to do so twice already........maybe he can explain this.....

I'll explain it for him as I suspect that we both think in the same way.

We both believe in the rule of law which goes:

Suspect is arrested

Suspect is charged

Suspect is tried

Verdict is delivered

Depending on verdict suspect is either released or punished according to rule of law

This is the way that things work for those who believe in the rule of law rather than the rule of the mob

We believe that you have to be tried before you can be found guilty

Comprende?

[farangme]

Wouldn't believe anything 'alleged' here without seeing the 'proof'.

Released on bail when they have hard photographic evidence? Seems odd.

No photos have been leaked to the press? Odd again.

Many points in this story seem off.

Maybe he's guilty, maybe not. Have to see what comes out at trial.

Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[chainarong]

93yrs old,think I'll put the kettle on. 93 hmmm.

[luckyman]

Kudos to Thai and/or Burmese police and Immigration, really amazing that they caught this bastard!!

[geriatrickid]

Good Morning,

I see some points that beg a response;

1. Why did he do a runner?

Well, how many tmes have we seen people ask for advice in TVF when they believe they are facing a difficult situation where the adversaries have stacked the odds in their favour and told to do just that? If I was accused of a similar crime in Thailand, I certainly would consider doing a runner, especially if I had my savings were stolen (alleged in this case) and was of frail health causing me not to have the wherewithall to contest the allegations. Sorry, but sometimes, the self preservation gene kicks in, no matter how dumb the decision might be.

2a. There were photographs.

Ok. Then they should be presented in court. It is very easy to assemble pornographic photographs. I can go onto the internet and download all manner of deviant images.

2b. It is alleged, there are photos of the accused posing with victims.

Let's see the photos. My friend came over with her 3 year old son and he was running around and fell down, I picked him up because he was crying. She took a photo. Out of context I would look like pervert in that photo, despite the boyfriend being within a few feet and 2 girlfriends sitting at the table laughing, none of whom were in that photo. Are the photos showing the man doing something bad, or are they like mine where I am kissing a crying kid on his forehead. The context matters.

3. The man's mental health is a factor.

One doesn't know as there is no statement of whether or not a mental health assessment was made. There is no indication of whether or not the man was on medication. Some medications cause very aberrant behaviour.

4. There is a wholesale acceptance of the "evidence".

Puhleeze. This is a country with no forensic protocol compliance. The most recent example was the death of Mr. Duval. ThaiRath published a photo of over a dozen people posing at the murder scene . In a country where crime scene integrity is a foreign concept and where evidence is not secure, how can any one not look upon "evidence" without questioning its reliability? Where is the evidence of the international pedo ring?

It is easy to make an accusation in Thailand.

Maybe the man is guilty, or maybe he was framed. I don't know. That's why I'm not taking sides. The evidence made public to date does not support treating the man guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

Edited October 5, 2012 by geriatrickid

[chiangmaikelly]

+1

Maybe Tropo can explain the case for the defence, he's been asked to do so twice already........maybe he can explain this.....

Tropo does not want to get involved in the case. Tropo feels it is up to the court to decide. Tropo stated this earlier so quit asking him.

If Tropo was royality speaking in the third person might make sense.

[CqK]

For those who believe a 93 year old man couldn't possibly have the physical ability to assault a child http://bicycling.com...cycling-record/ (100 year old man breaks 100km cycling record).

And, those who can't believe a 93 year old can "get it up" - Haven't you heard of Viagera?

Plus this ...http://www.metro.co....e-times-a-night (94 year old man is worlds oldest father and has sex 3 times a night)

I don't know whether this man is guilty or not, but I do know that his age doesn't have anything to do with it.

You don't think these references are newsworthy because they are exceptions to the rule?

[CqK]

Xenophon, I Voz Tinking Der Same Ting.

Me too.

[Johnice]

I have now read 6 pages of defence and guilty comments from all the so called legal experts and have come to the conclusion that for quick "Kangaroo Justice" excuse the pun, log onto this site!

[Semper]

For those who believe a 93 year old man couldn't possibly have the physical ability to assault a child http://bicycling.com...cycling-record/ (100 year old man breaks 100km cycling record).

And, those who can't believe a 93 year old can "get it up" - Haven't you heard of Viagera?

Plus this ...http://www.metro.co....e-times-a-night (94 year old man is worlds oldest father and has sex 3 times a night)

I don't know whether this man is guilty or not, but I do know that his age doesn't have anything to do with it.

You should'nt believe everything you read on the net.