Dealing With Continual Attention For A Western-Western Baby

[draftvader]

We are an English-English couple who have an 11 month old baby girl (born in Thailand) who is, throughout the day, the centre of all attention. I'm sure that the parents of Thai-Western children get a fair amount of attention, but I am specifically asking parents of Western-Western children for advice.

Our little girl is always being approached by Thai nationals as they are, on the whole, genuinely curious about her. She is a chocolate box child (as you can see below)

Most people approach her and are polite and respectful. They talk to her, her Mum or me then head in to have a little touch. I have no issue with this as it respects her as an individual and she is different, there is no way around that. My problem is the people who come in and grab a leg, pinch a cheek or, and this has happened with NO conversation with any of us on a number of occassions, try to pick her up.

My reaction to the latter is quite demonstrative as I perceive this as very disrespectful in ANY society. It shows a complete lack of awareness that our child IS another person. The call of "doll" in Thai is very common, we have decided to ignore that for her sake, but the unwelcomed advances continue to plague us.

We actively promote her interaction with our Thai friends and insist they speak to her in Thai so that she has a respect for other languages and cultures ingrained in her from birth. We are happy for people to approach us (when we are not in a hurry) and ask questions as it gives her as much opportunity to examine other humans as it does give them a chance to interact with the "doll".

So, please, does anybody have any useful suggestions, that have worked for them, for dealing with the rude, disrespectful people who think that she is just an object for them to play with? What strategies have you adopted to cope with these people/situations?

Looking forward to any creative answers.

[TommoPhysicist]

My reaction to the latter is quite demonstrative as I perceive this as very disrespectful in ANY society. It shows a complete lack of awareness that our child IS another person. The call of "doll" in Thai is very common, we have decided to ignore that for her sake, but the unwelcomed advances continue to plague us.

You are the one behaving abnormally, the Thais love children and don't understand that western people view strangers as a threat to their children. They would be horrified if you were able to explain your feelings of fear to them. IMHO the western world has developed a very twisted attitude towards protecting their children from imaginary threats.

My one year old gets handed round all over the place, the only limit I put on everyone, is never out of my sight.

It's actually given him a very confident and out-going personality with other people.

I would suggest if you can't cope with Thai behavior towards your child, you return to your home country, it won't get any better as she gets older. White skin = special attention.

Edited October 6, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[krisb]

Mate Id be annoyed by this unwanted attention at my young child also.

Its simply the fact she has everything the Thais want in a child, white skin, blonde hair and not dark eyes probably and this makes her quite special in Thailand.

Heres an idea, tell these people who just wanna touch her shes sick and doctor said its contagious.

Hey, if shes getting so much attention like you say, then perhaps consider finding her modelling work in Thailand. Cha-ching!

[krisb]

My reaction to the latter is quite demonstrative as I perceive this as very disrespectful in ANY society. It shows a complete lack of awareness that our child IS another person. The call of "doll" in Thai is very common, we have decided to ignore that for her sake, but the unwelcomed advances continue to plague us.

You are the one behaving abnormally, the Thais love children and don't understand that western people view strangers as a threat to their children. They would be horrified if you were able to explain your feelings of fear to them. IMHO the western world has developed a very twisted attitude towards protecting their children from imaginary threats.

My one year old gets handed round all over the place, the only limit I put on everyone, is never out of my sight.

It's actually given him a very confident and out-going personality with other people.

I would suggest if you can't cope with Thai behavior towards your child, you return to your home country, it won't get any better as she gets older. White skin = special attention.

Hang on thats a bit harsh! Its only normal to feel like the OP is and the imaginary threats you say he is having which you also would have are far as Im concerned quite warranted these days and fair enough hes concerned. So bit harsh telling him go home.

[TommoPhysicist]

Hang on thats a bit harsh! Its only normal to feel like the OP is and the imaginary threats you say he is having which you also would have are far as Im concerned quite warranted these days and fair enough hes concerned. So bit harsh telling him go home.

He asked for useful suggestions, I offer three ...... either

1. never take the kid out in public

2. return to the UK

3. adjust your attitude to Thais interacting with the child.

Those are the only three choices as the Thais aren't gonna change.

[p_brownstone]

Hang on thats a bit harsh! Its only normal to feel like the OP is and the imaginary threats you say he is having which you also would have are far as Im concerned quite warranted these days and fair enough hes concerned. So bit harsh telling him go home.

He asked for useful suggestions, I offer three ...... either

1. never take the kid out in public

2. return to the UK

3. adjust your attitude to Thais interacting with the child.

Those are the only three choices as the Thais aren't gonna change.

Absolutely disagree completely - no way would I accept a stranger picking up my daughter without permission or pinching cheeks etc., she's a human being not a toy available for any tom dick or harry to harrass.

This happened a lot with my daughter when she was younger - she's luk-kreung and had very chubby cheeks, fair skin etc. etc.. MANY time I would forcefully slap hands away from pinching her and I made - and still make - no apologies for that whatsoever. The hands are often dirty and the "pinching", although well meant, was very painful and humiliating for the child.

I strongly suggest the OP takes a similarly tough line with the situation, otherwise the child will become introverted and afraid of going out in public.

It is just unacceptable and should not be excused on the basis of "culture"!

Patrick

[draftvader]

My reaction to the latter is quite demonstrative as I perceive this as very disrespectful in ANY society. It shows a complete lack of awareness that our child IS another person. The call of "doll" in Thai is very common, we have decided to ignore that for her sake, but the unwelcomed advances continue to plague us.

You are the one behaving abnormally, the Thais love children and don't understand that western people view strangers as a threat to their children. They would be horrified if you were able to explain your feelings of fear to them. IMHO the western world has developed a very twisted attitude towards protecting their children from imaginary threats.

My one year old gets handed round all over the place, the only limit I put on everyone, is never out of my sight.

It's actually given him a very confident and out-going personality with other people.

I would suggest if you can't cope with Thai behavior towards your child, you return to your home country, it won't get any better as she gets older. White skin = special attention.

go home.... wow, that helped

[draftvader]

Hang on thats a bit harsh! Its only normal to feel like the OP is and the imaginary threats you say he is having which you also would have are far as Im concerned quite warranted these days and fair enough hes concerned. So bit harsh telling him go home.

He asked for useful suggestions, I offer three ...... either

1. never take the kid out in public

2. return to the UK

3. adjust your attitude to Thais interacting with the child.

Those are the only three choices as the Thais aren't gonna change.

TP, I am not saying that they are going to kidnap my daughter. I have also stated that she is well shared and well balanced. My point is that the few actions I describe as unacceptable are disrespectful to my daughter as a human being. It is taking away her choice as to whether she wants a person to pick her up or not. She is very clear with her manner towards people she wants to have carry her, she puts her arms out towards them.

TP, do you have a western-western child?

[TommoPhysicist]

TP, do you have a western-western child?

Even worse, luk Krung, white but still Thai.

He gets much more attention than foreign children.

[rixalex]

Wondered when the, "my child gets more attention than your child" pissing contest would begin.

[scotsdude]

Now now children stop arguing!

[draftvader]

If TP takes the time to look at my original post he will see that I am offering a balanced view and have a large amount of patience with the attention my daughter gets. When speaking with our Thai friends and colleagues about strangers walking up and trying to pick up our daughter they are appalled. This is not me having to oblige, far from it. Our child is a human being, an individual and I have a responsibility to protect her feelings when some people don't have it in them to be respectful of others. The only reason this refers to Thai nationals is because we live here. Asking me to go "home" is an odd statement as Thailand is our home. If this was in a Western country I would remonstrate with the person verbally and loudly to ensure maximum embarrassment. This would be so that my daughter would learn to understand that she has the right to say "NO!" when she doesn't want somebody to do something to her. My question was how to handle this in Thailand. I have had some well meaning replies, some intentionally obstructive replies and people just treating this like a thread in the general forum. Unfortunately I still haven't had anything different from what I am already doing.

So, to conclude, guess what I will do when I am next confronted with this impolite behaviour?

a: Pack up my bags, leave my house and leave the country due to an inconsiderate stranger or

b: Verbally remonstrate and make a point of demonstrating my displeasure

What a shame.

[TommoPhysicist]

If TP takes the time to look at my original post he will see that I am offering a balanced view and have a large amount of patience with the attention my daughter gets. When speaking with our Thai friends and colleagues about strangers walking up and trying to pick up our daughter they are appalled. This is not me having to oblige, far from it. Our child is a human being, an individual and I have a responsibility to protect her feelings when some people don't have it in them to be respectful of others. The only reason this refers to Thai nationals is because we live here. Asking me to go "home" is an odd statement as Thailand is our home. If this was in a Western country I would remonstrate with the person verbally and loudly to ensure maximum embarrassment. This would be so that my daughter would learn to understand that she has the right to say "NO!" when she doesn't want somebody to do something to her. My question was how to handle this in Thailand. I have had some well meaning replies, some intentionally obstructive replies and people just treating this like a thread in the general forum. Unfortunately I still haven't had anything different from what I am already doing.

So, to conclude, guess what I will do when I am next confronted with this impolite behaviour?

a: Pack up my bags, leave my house and leave the country due to an inconsiderate stranger or

b: Verbally remonstrate and make a point of demonstrating my displeasure

What a shame.

Up to you, you're the one making something innocent (if irritating) into a major problem.

Of course your Thai friends and colleagues agree with you, they are being polite, when have you ever known a Thai to disagree with anything you suggest?

Edited October 6, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[bina]

i have to agree with tommo,

in many cultures that are NOT western, the child is a 'world child/toy', i.e. everyone can touch ,pick up, give candy to and pat, to their heart's content. up until recently here it was the same, and actually, once a person gets away from the main 'yuppy' areas, its still that way.

most cultures do not see children as 'seperate people', but as cute and small things to play with. until around age five when they become little adults and are expected to do the things adults do, -clean, babysit, cook, do laundry, look after smaller siblings, etc.

it took me a while to get used to, nowadays as well, when folks come ot our hotel and a child cries, many of us (strangers hands) reach out to pick the child up, or rock the stroller, or put a pacifier in a mouth or give a cookie (w/o asking permission). we all do that. (we all do that, ok, we dont pinch and pull and if the child cries or turns away we leave them alone) but yes it does seem a very european/anglo style to not have people touch or whatever, your child. there are obviously reasons for that, which i find sad, but in rural thailand, or even city thailand obviously the 'fear of pedophilia' which is the main fear , hasnt yet made a big 'fuss'. here also we call children 'dolls' and 'tiny things' and 'small bug',

you can do the body block by positioning yourself between the child and you, you can teach the child to refuse to be handled (thais howver will laugh when a child cries, and try to get more of a rise out of the child, it is childish behavior also, i see it with my husband and other thais here, with our dogs and other peoples' children, the way i see thai mothers (and filipina mothers here who have thai boyfriends) handle it is they smile, and tell the child not to cry or respond, no response, the person usually walks away. this system seems to be very effective, cause the same works on an animal. if the animal responds then everyone laughs and keeps doing it, if not, they move on to the next 'victim')...

u can teach your child to wei nicely and turn away, and lastly u can wait for your child to grow up, when she becomes less doll like, the interest will fade. others here tend to make rules for whom can touch and pick up the child, and pull the child away and tell people off like u said u would do in europe. here, if u told off some little old lady who did 'cooochie mochee coo' with your baby people would be horrified by you, not by her.

im not saying its right, but its not impolite in rural thailand (altjough among higher educated higher socio economic thais that have much more exposure to western practices of course it would bother them also, unfortunatley taking the bad habits from the west, not the good ones.

its not impolite in many mid eastern countries either. it is apparently impolite in anglo or european countries. i think in balkan countries its also not impolite from what i see among the russian/satellite country people living here.

learn some phrases in thai that can be polite but put off the person approaching, teach your girl to use the same phrases, or be impolite and tell people off.

bina

israel

there have been several threads with the same query, some i the ladies forum some here, mostly everyone says the same things that ive listed, maybe stronger or less polite, but that is the jist of it.

[transam]

You should enjoy the attention, the babe will, and for sure feel accepted by the natives. The Thai folk are overwhelmed with a farang babe and really makes their day, should make your day too.

My old white legs attract the same attention which l find good fun. ............

[Boo]

your child, your rules. simple as that, if you don't like how they treat your child then react however you need to to get your point across. I would rather piss off strangers than have my child manhandled or pinched if he doesn't like it & you can usually tell when a baby or toddler is unhappy by their body langauge. Simples.

Ignore the "go home if you don't like it" comments, pointless to even acknowledge them.

[sbk]

Agree with Boo, and though I dont' have kids my nephew came to visit when he was four. I took him aside and explained to him that people would touch him and want to talk to him and that it was ok but if he felt uncomfortable or didn't want it to just say so. He adjusted fairly well but my sister did have to put down some rules regarding exactly how much access there was.

As for the idea that its perfectly acceptable and Thais don't mind. Err. Some don't mind, many do but won't say anything as they don't want to cause offense. But I have heard many of my female Thai relatives with small children complain privately when someone harasses their kid in a way that makes him upset or cry.

[mike123ca]

My two kids 6 and 4 years old both look 100% western. The only way you would know they are 1/2 Thai is that they speak both languages fluently.

The only people I remember holding or hugging or whatever with the kids were only family members or very close friends. I don't

recall any Thai's touching the children.

When we were living in South Korea, that was a different story.

[canuckamuck]

I have seen this a lot, I suggest do as you have been doing, go with the flow until it bugs you too much, then let them know or make a bit of a scene. Who cares if you look a little jai rahn once in a while. No one is keeping score. You will learn who to avoid after a while or how to duck some of the attention.

Raising kids is full of moments where you would like to control the situation but you just have to let a lot of things go too.

Sorry there is no magic trick, do the best you can.

[rixalex]

You should enjoy the attention, the babe will, and for sure feel accepted by the natives. The Thai folk are overwhelmed with a farang babe and really makes their day, should make your day too.

My old white legs attract the same attention which l find good fun. ............

That would be the light-hearted way i would try to look at it. Yes i understand it is a problem, but try to think of it as being a nice problem. I have seen the way down syndrome kids and kids with other disabilities, can be stared at and even pointed at, and no, not only by kids, but adults as well. I imagine how it must feel for the parents of these kids, to see the way other people look at their children as if they are dirty or ugly. Must be heart-breaking. Goes without saying, terrible for the kids too.

[teacher17]

That's a tough situation. If it were my kid...I wouldn't let complete strangers touch my child. But in Thailand, is seems like it's the norm. Even Thai people's children get a lot of attention. There's a woman in the village who just had a baby girl and everyone wants to touch her, etc.

One time, there was a Thai 2 year old boy, and this older Thai man (who I knew, but didn't particularly like) just pulled down the kids pants and touched his private part! No one said anything though, but you could tell the little boy was upset when he did it....I wanted to say something, but I didn't. Know I wish I did....just a question...do Thai people "playfully" touch babies privates??? I have seen it (including women) who have done it, though usually to family members kids. In western society, I'm pretty sure the police would be called! I would never want anyone doing that to my kid.....

I think the touching thing has become so commonplace, that they fear someone would lose face if they tell someone they don't want them touch their kid...? I dunno. I certainly wouldn't be afraid of losing face though!!!

[draftvader]

Thank you all (meant in sincerity) for your responses. It seems to be split evenly 50% 50%. I will carry on with my version of events. She has to be respected.

Just to make a slight point. The Thai people who have expressed their feelings on this matter are very well educated (i.e. all teachers with Masters in Education/Early Education from Western Universities in the US and Australia) and are not afraid of expressing their feelings as they work in a western owned business where the success of that business is down to the open and communicative attitude. If they did not speak the truth/their mind they wouldn't enjoy their job and would leave (this happened 2 weeks ago). Not all Thais are the same.

[tfc]

I know at least 10 different families with either half thai half western or full western babies and kids. Each family reacts differently to the general Thai culture of giving the babies/kids a lot of attention. A few very directly tell people that they don't want their kids touched. Others don't mind and others used to mind but have compromised. Ultimately its up to you. I don't think it's a problem if you say that you don't want your baby touched. I think that most Thais mean very well and look kindly on kids but of course how you and your kid feels is what is important.

As for the cheek grabbing and pinching - that used to happen to me as a child in Australia and I still don't get why adults used to like doing that to me as it bloody well hurt.

[transam]

I know at least 10 different families with either half thai half western or full western babies and kids. Each family reacts differently to the general Thai culture of giving the babies/kids a lot of attention. A few very directly tell people that they don't want their kids touched. Others don't mind and others used to mind but have compromised. Ultimately its up to you. I don't think it's a problem if you say that you don't want your baby touched. I think that most Thais mean very well and look kindly on kids but of course how you and your kid feels is what is important.

As for the cheek grabbing and pinching - that used to happen to me as a child in Australia and I still don't get why adults used to like doing that to me as it bloody well hurt.

My mrs does that to me now , she says l smell like a baby.

[Morakot]

You are the one behaving abnormally, the Thais love children and don't understand that western people view strangers as a threat to their children.

Reading the OP, I can't see that he expressed any feelings of a threat. I sense, he is uncomfortable how other people interact with his child, without any (small) talk involving him or the child. Having such feelings may relate to experiencing cultural differences. Tommo, it's not very sensible to say that his feelings are related to "abnormal behaviour", especially considering that the OP as an English man, who has an English wife, is possibly less emerged into Thai culture and society.

Draftvader, perhaps just have a closer look how people in Thailand generally intact and approach (unfamiliar) children and how this possibly differs if they are in a group. In my opinion, and in the opinion of Thai people who I have spoken to, approaching and for instance cuddling an unfamiliar child, without speaking to the child or to parents is rather weird. However having said this, I think most people are not sociopaths, who pinch your child's leg, but might feel inhibited to speak to you or your child because of a presumed language barrier.

So my "creative" suggestion would be to make it funny for everybody and ask the person in Thai "Do you speak Thai?" Hoping to defuse the oddity of the noneverbalness that you may experience. But of course a large part of communication is non verbal; that's why I suggested to observe how people act towards other children. You may find that an awful lot has already been "said" before physical contact actually happens.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Morakot

[nontabury]

I know at least 10 different families with either half thai half western or full western babies and kids. Each family reacts differently to the general Thai culture of giving the babies/kids a lot of attention. A few very directly tell people that they don't want their kids touched. Others don't mind and others used to mind but have compromised. Ultimately its up to you. I don't think it's a problem if you say that you don't want your baby touched. I think that most Thais mean very well and look kindly on kids but of course how you and your kid feels is what is important.

As for the cheek grabbing and pinching - that used to happen to me as a child in Australia and I still don't get why adults used to like doing that to me as it bloody well hurt.

My mrs does that to me now , she says l smell like a baby.

Is that before or after she changes your nappy.

[transam]

I know at least 10 different families with either half thai half western or full western babies and kids. Each family reacts differently to the general Thai culture of giving the babies/kids a lot of attention. A few very directly tell people that they don't want their kids touched. Others don't mind and others used to mind but have compromised. Ultimately its up to you. I don't think it's a problem if you say that you don't want your baby touched. I think that most Thais mean very well and look kindly on kids but of course how you and your kid feels is what is important.

As for the cheek grabbing and pinching - that used to happen to me as a child in Australia and I still don't get why adults used to like doing that to me as it bloody well hurt.

My mrs does that to me now , she says l smell like a baby.

Is that before or after she changes your nappy.

After, think it the talcum powder.

[SteeleJoe]

Like many, many others I had a similar issue and didn't like it much either. As such I have input but it has pretty much been covered already (sort of a combination of both "sides": your kid, you make the rules/don't be too rigid and adapt a bit) and besides I apparently don't qualify.

I can't work out why you repeatedly attempt to exclude or discount the input of any parents of bi-racial kids. (I confess that the only reason that comes to mind wouldn't reflect all that well on you).

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Edited October 9, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[SteeleJoe]

ERROR

Edited October 9, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[draftvader]

The simple reason is, as is often said on these forum, apples for apples. I have looked after a friend's Luek Krung child on a number of occasions and he simply doesn't get the same level of attention as our little blonde baby. It could well be the hair colour. I can't see why that would reflect badly on me.

Why is it people can't accept that a blonde child IS perceived differently to a dark haired child?