Thailand Urged To Abolish Death Penalty

[vspin134]

Forget it....keep it in the system. If we are talking serious about human rights...let's install proper facilities for people in wheel chair. Death penalty should be in effect for as long as gun is still legal for anyone outside law enforcement (even those with permit)

[Scully]

The problem as another poster has said is that if any new evidence comes to light years later.

There are cases of miscarriages of justice in the west with modern forensics and all that comes with western policing.

How can we honestly say Thailand's wrongful imprisonments or past death penalties for that matter are not higher.

[cup-O-coffee]

Survivors of murder victims urge criminals to abolish death penalty

Edited October 10, 2012 by metisdead
: Oversize font reset to normal

[silsburyhill]

Ah, this 'hang 'em like dirty dogs ' is so prevalent of the mindlessset of the majority of the expat contingent here.

State murder, er execution, is barbaric. Name ONE civilised country still enforces this 'punishment'. Go on. Just ONE. And then please do follow up with any evidence it has any detrimental effect on any of the mealy mouthed (kiddie fiddlers? drug mules?) crimes stated above.

[Jim walker]

Of course it’s a deterrent if you were back home in the USA and someone asks you to take a suitcase full of drugs to Thailand if I got caught what would happen to me, would the death penalty not flash through your brain for a second before picking up the suitcase.

Edited October 10, 2012 by metisdead
: Small font reset to normal size which is Arial size 14.

[uptheos]

State murder, er execution, is barbaric. Name ONE civilised country still enforces this 'punishment'. .

USA................oops you said civilised.

[Jim walker]

Singapore and we all know the rules.

Penal Code

Under the Penal Code,[13] the commission of the following offences may result in the death penalty:

Waging or attempting to wage war or abetting the waging of war against the Government

Offences against the President’s person (in other words, treason)

Mutiny

Piracy that endangers life

Perjury that results in the execution of an innocent person

Murder

Abetting the suicide of a person under the age of 18 or an "insane" person

Attempted murder by a prisoner serving a life sentence

Kidnapping or abducting in order to murder

Robbery committed by five or more people that results in the death of a person

Drug trafficking

Unlawful discharge of firearms, even if no one is injured

[fabphil]

Bring back the hanging Judge, to many convicts shouldve been done away with years ago, why keep the no good xxxxs

[rgs2001uk]

Bring back the hanging Judge, to many convicts shouldve been done away with years ago, why keep the no good xxxxs

Agreed, how many of these have had their convictions overturned by new evidence coming to light.

How much have these fine upstanding pillars of the community cost the taxpayer?

If I have rats in the kitchen I call in the extermianator.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britains-35-serial-killers-who-377101

[longtom]

How anybody can advocate the death penalty in a country where the police and justice system is so corrupt and <<Snipped!>> up as in Thailand is an enigma to me.

And when you think it's working fine in Singapore then I recommend to read the book 'Once a Jolly Hangman: Singapore Justice in the Dock', about the arbitrary application of the death sentence, some interesting facts in there.

Edited October 10, 2012 by metisdead
: Profanity

[Pimay1]

State murder, er execution, is barbaric. Name ONE civilised country still enforces this 'punishment'. .

USA................oops you said civilised.

Yep guys you're right. Some very nice gentleman rapes, kills your wife, mother, daughter, sister or anyone for that fact, they have rights. Can't be judging them too harshly as they may have been abused as children. We have to feel sorry for them and put ourself in their place. We must feel their pain. But never mind the victims. They didn't have any rights. Get a life guys! The death penality is a very good deterent. Once the guy/gal is excuted they never do it again. End of story.

[SteeleJoe]

State murder, er execution, is barbaric. Name ONE civilised country still enforces this 'punishment'. .

USA................oops you said civilised.

Yep guys you're right. Some very nice gentleman rapes, kills your wife, mother, daughter, sister or anyone for that fact, they have rights. Can't be judging them too harshly as they may have been abused as children. We have to feel sorry for them and put ourself in their place. We must feel their pain. But never mind the victims. They didn't have any rights. Get a life guys! The death penality is a very good deterent. Once the guy/gal is excuted they never do it again. End of story.

Ah yes, that exceedingly weak but ever popular tactic -- the straw man!

1) Yes, in fact criminals -- no matter how horrible or how much we may hate them -- do have rights. If you wish it were otherwise then you are either unable or uninterested in giving it any real thought or have other serious issues (eg you'd prefer to live in some sort of totalitarian state?) And you are equally misguided if you think laws should be based on decisions that would be made by quite understandably enraged survivors.

2) Acknowledging rights and protecting them does not necessitate or have anything at all to do with sympathizing or empathizing with criminals.

3) Live victims do have rights just like anyone else. Dead ones, in fact, do not. They are dead.

4) You're clever definition of "deterrent" notwithstanding, imprisonment for life would have the same effect.

For the record, and before you make some silly claim that I am on the side of murderers or whatever, I have no real problem with the death penalty in theory. Studies have shown that it does not act as an effective deterrent (and given that countries like Thailand still have plenty of murders, it would seem to be true) but I'm OK with it in some cases as the ultimate punishment and retribution. The problem is that innocent people WILL almost without question be executed. There is virtually no doubt of that.

That I'm not OK with.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Jim walker]

Yes that poor rapist it was just a cry for help its some counselling he needs not prison and strung up a nice holiday to south Africa, just as they were doing in the UK for a while so many deprived children in the UK

[whybother]

Ah, this 'hang 'em like dirty dogs ' is so prevalent of the mindlessset of the majority of the expat contingent here.

State murder, er execution, is barbaric. Name ONE civilised country still enforces this 'punishment'. Go on. Just ONE. And then please do follow up with any evidence it has any detrimental effect on any of the mealy mouthed (kiddie fiddlers? drug mules?) crimes stated above.

"majority of the expat contingent"

I think you had better read up on what a majority is.

[uptheos]

State murder, er execution, is barbaric. Name ONE civilised country still enforces this 'punishment'. .

USA................oops you said civilised.

Yep guys you're right. Some very nice gentleman rapes, kills your wife, mother, daughter, sister or anyone for that fact, they have rights. Can't be judging them too harshly as they may have been abused as children. We have to feel sorry for them and put ourself in their place. We must feel their pain. But never mind the victims. They didn't have any rights. Get a life guys! The death penality is a very good deterent. Once the guy/gal is excuted they never do it again. End of story.

American eh?

Average 45 murders a day........death sentence is a real deterrent. However, I think they keep the death penalty because they have absolutely no more room in the prisons........there's even a waiting list.

[metisdead]

Topic is "Thailand Urged to Abolish Death Penalty", lets keep the comments in that direction rather than waffling on about the US.

[Nisa]

It would be nice if certain American states would abolish it first, as an example for Thailand to follow.

Approx 17 of the 50 states do not have the death penalty.

<< Off topic comments removed >>

However, when it gets down to the reality of things, Thailand executes very few people now a days. I think there has only been 2 in the last 9 or 10 years ... sadly both for drug smuggling (I think they were part of the same crime if I recall).

Edited October 10, 2012 by metisdead
: Edited to remove off topic content.

[uptheos]

Studies have shown that it does not act as an effective deterrent (and given that countries like Thailand still have plenty of murders, it would seem to be true) but I'm OK with it in some cases as the ultimate punishment and retribution. The problem is that innocent people WILL almost without question be executed. There is virtually no doubt of that.

And this is why the death penalty should be abolished in Thailand.

[Nisa]

From the same site this OP is taken ...From the same site this OP is taken ...

NUMBER OF EXECUTIONS AND TYPE OF OFFENCE (Thailand 1935-2001)

Types of Offence........................................No.

1. Offence against the Royal Family............4

2. Offence against the State.......................28

3. Murder...................................................116

4. Robbery and Murder...............................86

5. Murder of Officer......................................7

6. Rape and Murder....................................28

7. Offence against Narcotic law.................12

Total ..........................................................280

Edited October 10, 2012 by Nisa

[Fozfromoz]

Ah, this 'hang 'em like dirty dogs ' is so prevalent of the mindlessset of the majority of the expat contingent here.

State murder, er execution, is barbaric. Name ONE civilised country still enforces this 'punishment'. Go on. Just ONE. And then please do follow up with any evidence it has any detrimental effect on any of the mealy mouthed (kiddie fiddlers? drug mules?) crimes stated above.

Would you not consider Singapore a civilised country? Crime is quite low there but I don't have numbers.

[marshbags]

Topic is "Thailand Urged to Abolish Death Penalty", lets keep the comments in that direction rather than waffling on about the US.

Just as the thread clearly states and deviating via what other countries do or don,t is irrelavant and pointless.

As for here, sadly as with all other lawfully applied sentences this is yet again a selective issue when the station of the offender is totally bias in favour of privilidge as to who is given the ultimate penalty.

Should it ever occur, I cannot recall even one of the proven guilty elite and privilidged ever paying with their lives for committed and proven offences, many of which are so horrifically evil it goes beyond human comprehension.

The list continues to grow were instead of taking the walk to the executioner, they walk off into anonymity and oblivion.

If it is to be retained then at the very least it should apply to all irrespective of who they are and based purely on the proven and convicted crime for which, according to Thai law and the reasons for which the death penalty is applied.

Without exception

May I humbly suggest the loved ones of the victims are consulted as to wether if or not it should or shouldn,t be given, not those uneffected and certainly not the PC and their disengenuos sensibilities.

marshbags

Edited October 10, 2012 by marshbags

[Nisa]

As for here, sadly as with all other lawfully applied sentences this is yet again a selective issue when the station of the offender is totally bias in favour of privilidge as to who is given the ultimate penalty.

Should it ever occur, I cannot recall even one of the proven guilty elite and privilidged ever paying with their lives for committed and proven offences, many of which are so horrifically evil it goes beyond human comprehension.

The list continues to grow were instead of taking the walk to the executioner, they walk off into anonymity and oblivion.

If it is to be retained then at the very least it should apply to all irrespective of who they are and based purely on the proven and convicted crime for which, according to Thai law and the reasons for which the death penalty is applied.

The rich and powerful make the laws and the rich and powerful don't need to smuggle drugs through airports and the rich and powerful can legally justify killing and/or hide behind their title/immunity for killings and the rich and powerful have access to the best lawyers and the rich in powerful are friends and connected with Judges (many who they help become judges) ... this is pretty much the way it works around the globe. I think it probably best to push Thailand to get rid of the death penalty as has so many nations rather than pushing it to become the most advanced country in the world when it comes to their justice system and human rights ... lets at least see Thailand get some of the most basic problems solved to help them get closer to being like a first world nation (if that is what you want) before expecting them to surpass these countries in such a complicated matters.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Nisa

[khunken]

As for here, sadly as with all other lawfully applied sentences this is yet again a selective issue when the station of the offender is totally bias in favour of privilidge as to who is given the ultimate penalty.

Should it ever occur, I cannot recall even one of the proven guilty elite and privilidged ever paying with their lives for committed and proven offences, many of which are so horrifically evil it goes beyond human comprehension.

The list continues to grow were instead of taking the walk to the executioner, they walk off into anonymity and oblivion.

If it is to be retained then at the very least it should apply to all irrespective of who they are and based purely on the proven and convicted crime for which, according to Thai law and the reasons for which the death penalty is applied.

The rich and powerful make the laws and the rich and powerful don't need to smuggle drugs through airports and the rich and powerful can legally justify killing and/or hide behind their title/immunity for killings and the rich and powerful have access to the best lawyers and the rich in powerful are friends and connected with Judges (many who they help become judges) ... this is pretty much the way it works around the globe. I think it probably best to push Thailand to get rid of the death penalty as has so many nations rather than pushing it to become the most advanced country in the world when it comes to their justice system and human rights ... lets at least see Thailand get some of the most basic problems solved to help them get closer to being like a first world nation (if that is what you want) before expecting them to surpass these countries in such a complicated matters.

Agree with that. I'm afraid that some of the more strident advocates of the death penalty on this thread are using revenge as a justification. Also, the suggestion that a drug courier needing the money to feed his/her family would hesitate because of the death penalty is not borne out by the numbers that get caught in death penalty countries.

[SteeleJoe]

... a drug courier needing the money to feed his/her family would hesitate because of the death penalty is not borne out by the numbers that get caught in death penalty countries.

While obviously it is sometimes the romantic scenario you describe let's not fall into the somewhat typical liberal trap (speaking as a liberal myself) of idealizing the accused just because they may be at a severe disadvantage against the state: plenty of drug couriers do it out of sheer greed (just as plenty of desperately poor people would never transport drugs).

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[khunken]

... a drug courier needing the money to feed his/her family would hesitate because of the death penalty is not borne out by the numbers that get caught in death penalty countries.

While obviously it is sometimes the romantic scenario you describe let's not fall into the somewhat typical liberal trap (speaking as a liberal myself) of idealizing the accused just because they may be at a severe disadvantage against the state: plenty of drug couriers do it out of sheer greed (just as plenty of desperately poor people would never transport drugs).

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Don't disagree with you. But I'm not idealising anyone but merely pointing out that the death penalty is not a deterrent.

[Nisa]

As for here, sadly as with all other lawfully applied sentences this is yet again a selective issue when the station of the offender is totally bias in favour of privilidge as to who is given the ultimate penalty.

Should it ever occur, I cannot recall even one of the proven guilty elite and privilidged ever paying with their lives for committed and proven offences, many of which are so horrifically evil it goes beyond human comprehension.

The list continues to grow were instead of taking the walk to the executioner, they walk off into anonymity and oblivion.

If it is to be retained then at the very least it should apply to all irrespective of who they are and based purely on the proven and convicted crime for which, according to Thai law and the reasons for which the death penalty is applied.

The rich and powerful make the laws and the rich and powerful don't need to smuggle drugs through airports and the rich and powerful can legally justify killing and/or hide behind their title/immunity for killings and the rich and powerful have access to the best lawyers and the rich in powerful are friends and connected with Judges (many who they help become judges) ... this is pretty much the way it works around the globe. I think it probably best to push Thailand to get rid of the death penalty as has so many nations rather than pushing it to become the most advanced country in the world when it comes to their justice system and human rights ... lets at least see Thailand get some of the most basic problems solved to help them get closer to being like a first world nation (if that is what you want) before expecting them to surpass these countries in such a complicated matters.

Agree with that. I'm afraid that some of the more strident advocates of the death penalty on this thread are using revenge as a justification. Also, the suggestion that a drug courier needing the money to feed his/her family would hesitate because of the death penalty is not borne out by the numbers that get caught in death penalty countries.

Agree -- using deterrent in determining harsh sentences rarely have any effect. Nobody wants to go to jail and they usually don't weigh the consequences if they get caught before doing the crime, there thinking at best usually stops after believing they won't get caught or if caught they can get out it. I mean really, how many cases are there in the world were somebody thought, "I'll kill this guy because I will only get 20-years (less or more) than receiving a death penalty"?

On the other hand, using it crazy and over the top ways such as executing those who speeds in a vehicle would almost certainly reduce (not eliminate) speeders but is this sane? My guess is that having the death penalty for drug offenses does reduce (not come close to eliminating) drug abuse or trafficking but again, is this sane? I am against the death penalty and disagree there is any logic in executing (murdering) a murderer but at least I understand to some extent some people's belief this is right even I disagree but the argument for deterrent makes no sense and if you believe in it then you should agree to use execution as a punishment anytime you want to reduce an offense ...especially less severe one where it really will curb the number of offenses.

[dangman]

Thailand should abolish the death penalty. It serves no purpose other than revenge which can never be equated with justice. Also:

- The death penalty is never a deterant. Having it or not having on the statute books will not stop people killing each other

- There have been too many people executed who have later been found to be innocent

but now and then you get a sick beast of a person..

of whom there are no doubts against their guilt..

against their grotesque actions..

and like a rabid dog, you just have to put them down

anyone can imagine a scenario where an execution would be warranted

and not as a deterrent. it's so the animal doesn't hurt anyone else

[marshbags]

As for here, sadly as with all other lawfully applied sentences this is yet again a selective issue when the station of the offender is totally bias in favour of privilidge as to who is given the ultimate penalty.

Should it ever occur, I cannot recall even one of the proven guilty elite and privilidged ever paying with their lives for committed and proven offences, many of which are so horrifically evil it goes beyond human comprehension.

The list continues to grow were instead of taking the walk to the executioner, they walk off into anonymity and oblivion.

If it is to be retained then at the very least it should apply to all irrespective of who they are and based purely on the proven and convicted crime for which, according to Thai law and the reasons for which the death penalty is applied.

The rich and powerful make the laws and the rich and powerful don't need to smuggle drugs through airports and the rich and powerful can legally justify killing and/or hide behind their title/immunity for killings and the rich and powerful have access to the best lawyers and the rich in powerful are friends and connected with Judges (many who they help become judges) ... this is pretty much the way it works around the globe. I think it probably best to push Thailand to get rid of the death penalty as has so many nations rather than pushing it to become the most advanced country in the world when it comes to their justice system and human rights ... lets at least see Thailand get some of the most basic problems solved to help them get closer to being like a first world nation (if that is what you want) before expecting them to surpass these countries in such a complicated matters.

It seems my actual quote appears to have possibly been ( maybe inadvertently ) edited and is IMHO relevant to some of the issues you raise.

As for certain things being applicable around the globe when it comes to class discrimination, implimentation and the law, who seemingly make them, and by your observation and comment for personal immunity is I find unfailrly generalising, to say the least.

All countries around the globe does not include the U.K. for example, and of which let me assure you, we do not base our laws purely on being considered a " first class nation "

A majority of 85% of U.K. citizens are in favour of bringing the death penalty back for certain offences were life has been unlawfully taken.

Based not on vendetta type reasoning but as an age old quotation implies and it,s deserved penalty when unlawfully taking life.

It has by the way been voted on in recent times and the % was even higher, only for the MP,s we have elected to represent our thoughts, especially on this important matter, have chosen not only to ignore them, but refuse to have a meaningful debate with selected representatives of reason for majority who wish to bring it back.

To part quote you in a way you should IMHO have done in my case if you have meant to show it as such.........................................

" The rich and powerful make the laws and the rich and powerful don't need to smuggle drugs through airports and the rich and powerful can legally justify killing and/or hide behind their title/immunity for killings and the rich and powerful have access to the best lawyers and the rich in powerful are friends and connected with Judges (many who they help become judges) ... this is pretty much the way it works around the globe. "

Unquote

I personally find this insulting, demeaning and provocative to say the least.

marshbags

[Nisa]

To part quote you in a way you should IMHO have done in my case if you have meant to show it as such.........................................

" The rich and powerful make the laws and the rich and powerful don't need to smuggle drugs through airports and the rich and powerful can legally justify killing and/or hide behind their title/immunity for killings and the rich and powerful have access to the best lawyers and the rich in powerful are friends and connected with Judges (many who they help become judges) ... this is pretty much the way it works around the globe. "

Unquote

I personally find this insulting, demeaning and provocative to say the least.

marshbags

First to be clear, I only part quoted you because I was only responding to the relevant part of your post to which I was responding ... as I am doing now (and you fairly did to me above) to ask ..... Why do you find it insulting, demeaning and provocative? I think most people would find it to be simply a reality.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Nisa

[anotheruser]

So some human rights group essentially sent a generic, form letter? I am guessing the death penalty will be abolished with in 72 hours.