Deet Did Not Kill Canadian Sisters Audrey And Noemi Belanger: Krabi

[kohphangan]

1979 user(s) are reading this topic

250 members, 1719 guests, 7 anonymous users

Well someone is interested in this topic

This user got stuck on the page longer than intended as i was filling out a pop up survey.... got stuck on Q1 and Q2 had to think about it,good job Q3 was not"what is your name"? that early in the morning.

Seriously though,and this is a VERY serious topic!! Yes i am and have been interested in this story from the horrible 1st day.

I would like to know how they really died so if it was an accident or ? it does not happen again.

I respect the parents wishes,but as i see it we have at least 3 people as witness who in my opinion should of been interviewed,is there not even a link between one of these witnesses?

Parents wishes are one thing..... conspiracy is another

[happysanook]

The LD50 of DEET is 2 grams per kilo in rats, and likely much higher in humans, meaning they both would of had to drink at least several shot glasses full of pure DEET.

I think you would have to be at least partially dense to believe the two sisters died from DEET... Either by suicide or murder, and especially accidentally.

[RaoulDuke]

While I do not know what it is like to lose 2 of your own children, I do think the parents 'right to privacy' is very much self-centered and egotistical. If they are really upset about what happened, they would demand to get to the bottom of it and do everything in their power to get the warning out to others, so no other parent will have to suffer the same horrible loss. Instead, it appears they wish to sweep it under a rug so no one dares to think less of them for having their two college-aged daughters out partying like most other people their age do. Whatever happened to these girls can and will happen to others, and EVERYONE who is part of the snowjob will have blood on their hands, including the parents. Sometimes people need to act in the best interest of society, not themselves.

[Jobiwankenobi]

It is obvious that something terrible happened here, and since there's enough speculation of the Thai authorities bungling the investigation or hiding something, as a Canuck, I'm sittin on the other side of the fence this time.

I think the girls must have knowingly ingested something, and that something has been requested by the family to be kept out of the realm of public knowledge. We now know it wasn't deet, that's clear. Whatever it was, the family does not want that information to be known publicly.

I copied and pasted this from a Canadian government website in relation to Quebec autopsys being a matter of public record:

"As a general rule, the coroner makes recommendations aimed at preventing other deaths under similar circumstances. The coroner’s report is almost without exception public."

So if we wait, the results will be released from the Montreal autopsy. If the results are never released and the family get their way in the public never knowing what happened, then the only rational conclusion is ______________________________________. So now we wait. Eh.

[transam]

Of course folk want to know how they passed. For one lass to pass on is a tragedy but two, and seems with the same symptoms is worrying for any folk thinking of a holiday in the same area.

For the family to not release possible valuable info for others safety seems a bit strange, unless they know how it happened and don't want the publicity.

[tuky]

I can't help but wonder if something else is going here.

Perhaps the family wish to keep this quiet for reasons not yet explored, but perhaps known by the authorities (International).

Remember Charles Sobhraj? Could it be possible there is a sicko in and around Asia purposefully poisonong these unfortunate people? There has been too many, and yet too few deaths for these not to be suspicious in my mind.

The authorities may well want this theory kept quiet so they can find him/her/them without them going to ground.

I know, far fetched but not impossible.

http://www.thepoisonreview.com/2012/09/18/is-chlorpyrifos-responsible-for-deaths-of-young-women-tourists-in-se-asia/

http://www.sott.net/article/251392-Poisoning-the-Female-Tourist-in-Asia

and so on.

Has this been discussed on Thaivisa already?

[nod]

I'm sure someone must have asked this and maybe answered it but I just have not seen it.

I keep seeing mentioned the Brazilian "friends" they had been partying with.

Surely if this news item has been circulated "worldwide" as been suggested, these two "friends" must have heard of these two poor girls demise!

Have the authorities heard from them I wonder?

Did they consume whatever these poor girls consumed?

etc etc.

The " backpacker" community are pretty good at keeping in touch via social media. Surely these Brazilians must have heard about this tragedy.

If so, why have they not made themselves known?

[challenger99]

I am just stupefied that it is such complicated in the time our criminalogy is very advanced! maybe there ise something what block the truth come out???

[Tanaka]

Sorry this does only bad on Thailand for those who don't know the whole story. THE PARENTS REQUESTED THE AUTOPCY REPORTS NOT TO BE RELEASED. The Thai police honoured the request by the parents and added that if the family or embassy want to release further info they can. Untill now they haven't released any further info. The ones who are hiding info is the parents and everyone must just let it go. Let the parents grieve their childrens deaths with their image/reputation intact. Why do everyone want to know the truth if the truth will only hurt the family more? Why are people dishonouring the wishes of the family by snooping around and seek publicity? The parents have lost that was most dear to them and the only thing they have left are the memories of their children, why do people want to destroy this?

No. This is incorrect. Neither the family nor the embassy have requested the results to be withheld! This is a fabrication of the Thai police. It has been confirmed by both sources already so why repeat the lies?

[webfact]

UPDATE:

Quebec coroner refutes Thai autopsy results for Belanger sisters

Phuket Gazette

A Quebec coroner has refuted claims that Audrey and Noemi Belanger died from ingesting DEET. Photo: Facebook

PHUKET: -- A Quebec coroner has refuted claims by Thai officials that the Belanger sisters died in their Phi Phi hotel room in June after consuming the insecticide DEET.

Audrey Belanger, 20, and Noemi Belanger, 25, were found dead in their hotel room on Phi Phi Island on June 15. Both had suffered a violent physical reaction to suspected poisoning.

Autopsies conducted by forensic police in Thailand identified undisclosed amounts of DEET in both woman’s systems, possibly from a “party cocktail” known locally as “4x100”. The regular form of the “cocktail”, however, does not contain DEET or any other insecticide.

But the independent autopsy in Quebec has ruled out the possibility of DEET being the cause of the sisters’ deaths, said Quebec coroner Renee Roussel on Radio-Canada.

Dr Rene Blais of Quebec’s poison control center explained that the concentration of the chemical reported by the Thai pathologist does not correspond to concentration that would be toxic, “let alone a concentration that would be fatal.”

Thought the test results rule out DEET as the cause of death, the autopsy in Quebec did not determine another possible cause.

Secondary autopsies have already been conducted in Montreal, but the results have not been released, reported Radio-Canada.

Thai officials have not officially closed the case. However, Lt Col Jongrak Pimthong of the Krabi City Police has repeatedly confirmed to the Phuket Gazette that the investigation has come to a halt at the police investigation level.

“We have sent a cause-of-death report to the Canadian Embassy or the Krabi Prosecutor’s Office. This is not a criminal report. We have no suspects,” Lt Col Jongrak said.

The cause of death is listed in the police report as “unknown” due to the circumstances of the sisters’ deaths, he said.

Source: http://www.phuketgaz...ters-18141.html

-- Phuket Gazette 2012-10-11

[tragickingdom]

"keen" Australian reporters, or just reporters who did their work and did not wrote down everything what officials claimed? Unfortunately anyone has more credibility than Thai officials when it comes to the death of foreigners. Remember the Chiangmai hotel, where police and justice officials tried to cover up the truth for a over a year? Funny too that this article is published in the local Pattaya liar while it happened elsewhere. Pattaya has a lot of tourists too, it is a good place to tell journalists what to write. If they investigate instead of writing down what is told they get murdered in the shit hole.

[Amras]

Might not have been one thing...possibly they were taking/on 'something' AND drinking this stuff with DEET? Chemical reactions can be very unpredictable and especially when mixing drugs, or poisons or things together (they can often antagonize the other, making the toxicity higher). The problem is trying to link the two together is extremely difficult and a coroner won't be able to do it without extensive testing (and even then it's speculation). Maybe they indulged too much and just unfortunately mixed the wrong things....sad..but a possibility....if that's the case, no one will know the exact cause of death.

[Puccini]

I hope the Canadian authorities can provide answers that those in Thailand could not. The fact that there is some progress will hopefully be providing some comfort to the families of the deceased during a time of unimaginable pain.

The case seems to be closed for the Canadian authorities with these answers they have given (from the OP):

...Canadian Pathologists have confirmed, in a coroner’s report, that the levels of Deet, a pesticide,, found in the bodies of two dead sisters was NOT the cause of their death...

Secondary autopsies were conducted in Montreal, but the results haven’t been released.

[Puccini]

Can we rule out DEET?

The Canadian coroner's report has ruled it out. Try and see if you can make him change his report.

From the OP:

...Canadian Pathologists have confirmed, in a coroner’s report, that the levels of Deet, a pesticide,, found in the bodies of two dead sisters was NOT the cause of their death...

[Puccini]

Incompetent THAI Doctors - We have experienced the same with a Thai Hospital.

TH - Crime Rate has been doubled + Poor Medical Assistance + Dangerous drinks in different bars in TH

What does any Thai doctor have to do with the Canadian coroner's report?

[LivingtheLife2010]

Mushrooms

[mrdome]

The DEET theory never really made much sense anyway and I'm glad it's off the table.

I hope that the Canadian authorities and the family will eventually reveal the real reason as found in the reports (I have looked to find recent information that this is not true as the poster above me claimed but have found nothing so far). It would really help ease the worries of future visitors to Thailand to know what reaslly happened here.

Edited October 11, 2012 by mrdome

[Puccini]

Corrupt police, incompetent reporters = no justice for the 2 girls. RIP

It's the family that want the cause of death kept secret, not the police. What exactly do you want the police to do if this was an accidental death?

What makes you say it was an ''accidental death''. Go back and read the initial reports on the state of the hotel room when they found the girls. The circumstances of this tragedy are very suspicious....

Perhaps davjones got that idea from reading the news article to which a link is given in the OP, where it says:

...In Quebec . a coroner ruled that their deaths were accidental...

I wonder if there is a way for you to find out the coroner's name and address, so that you could write to him and apprise him of the very suspicious circumstances.

[Briggsy]

If it wasn't so tragic, you would split your sides laughing.

Those Thai government agencies are just guaranteed to come up with deflecting garbage. And when it is shown to be complete baloney, another one steps in with more make-believe stated as undeniable fact.

Time and time again. Quite incredible. If only they had to take responsibility for their statements.

[Puccini]

If the cause is not obvious, B.i.B. just seem to sweep it aside with any excuse. Nothing changes in Thailand lazy police (probably untrained) and sloppy police work. But is that their fault? Question is, what will the Canadian investigators do about it and what are their options?

Accoring to the news article in the OP, the Canadian coroner has released this report:

In Quebec . a coroner ruled that their deaths were accidental, caused by some form of poisoning, and that Its likely that they had indeed ingested something which had poisoned them, but it was not DEET as the concentration of DEET within their bodies was not sufficient to have been fatal.

Is it this coroner to whom you refer as B.i.B, lazy (probably untrained) and sloppy?

[Whidbeyboy]

This is takingg very long IMO. Me thinks hey know more then they are saying since the investigation is ongoing and certain information is kept private that only the crooks, if any, would know. By keeping info secret the people involvde may incriminate themselves when they talk. Just a thought, since this is hard to believe what I have read so far.

[Puccini]

Back to the bed bugs theory ???

Since the Canadian coroner has already made his report, I doubt there is any going back to any theory.

[Puccini]

It would be nice to know what substance it was that caused the death, just to know what poison to stay clear of.

It would have been nice to know, but the case now being closed we shall never know.

[richabb1]

i dont post often but this story riles me.

one - the girls are dead - confirmed - so its either murder or suicide - i would think

so wouldnt it be the job of the police to work that out and suicide was ruled out? - then its murder and as such there must then be a murderer walking around - thats a threat too society and that person persons is either in the country or abroad- so wouldnt it be the cops job to find that person/s where ever they be. - since when does murder not count as capital crime

as for the talk that the family or embassy didnt wish certain details to be revealed or the invstigation concluded - since when can another country influence the activites of the thai police - an or since when can the family curtail a police investigation - so thats bs and needs to rectified

the stance or investiagtive response here by royal hai police is poor and needs to be taken to a higher level - perhaps canadians out there shuold resquest this of their ambasador as it seems there is no justice for these girls and worst still a murderer is loose in society

[Viruta57]

It never been the case that the parents asked the authority not to talk about the reasons of the death... You should ask somebody to translate this article from radio-Canada...

http://m.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/International/2012/10/03/003-soeurs-belanger-fermeture.shtml

[toenail]

This article's theme seems to be joyful that it was not DEET. But, the girls were poisoned - by what. So I don't see how this article can be so "up beat". Someone out there is still guilty.

[dude007]

The mystery remains.. at least we can rule out DEET consumption, which in my mind was a drink only a fool would order.

Very curious about our Canadian autopsy results.

Can we rule out DEET? Remember the girls was found in their room with a large amount of vomit and blood around them. When a person get poisoned the body will try to get rid of the poisoning, so before the sisters started vomiting they may indeed have a large amount of DEET inside their bodies!

Nice thinking! That is a real fact that should be considered, but on the other hand the amount of DEET that has been vomited (out of their stomach) has not been taken into their blood... so this amount was of no importance in terms of poisoning....!

[hellodolly]

Same story as Down Town Inn, Chiang Mai. No closure for victims!

The Down Town Inn, Chiang Mai was blown all out of proportion by a wanna be reporter.

Their were four deaths in a two month period. Two unexplainable two near deaths and two deaths of a married couple both with a heart attack with inn 10 minutes of each other. Those two could be one dying as the result of the other. They had been married 30 years and were in their 60s. As for the two survivors the one returned to New Zealand and the other to Seattle. Neither country was able to put there finger on it and the WHO had been involved and could not say what it was either. Th Hotel has since been torn down and is now a empty lot.

People are basically ignorant of what science can and can not do so they continue with the why and are unable to accept that some times things happen that the best science in the world can not explain.

The girls are at peace now so let the parents deal with it in their own way. You people do not help at all. I speak from experience having had an 18 year old son die. It is hard enough to deal with with out others constantly reminding you. We all deal with it in are own way now LEAVE THEM LONE.

[Viruta57]

". Il dément par ailleurs avoir demandé aux autorités thaïlandaises de ne rien divulguer sur l'enquête et encore moins d'arrêter les recherches sur un indvidu qui aurait été vu avec ses filles le soir du drame."

From the article of radio-Canada... The father claim that he never asked the Thai authority not to tell anything about the investigation and never stop to ask about the search of the man that has been seen with the girls that night ... Sorry for my English

Edited October 11, 2012 by Viruta57

[Maestro]

I have deleted some off-topic posts.