Toms With Gorgeous Girlfriends.

[jshorts]

I am saying that because I went into a lesbian biker bar and before I even ordered a drink or opened my mouth to talk they tried to kill me. Trying to kill me I would think is a sign of hate.

I doubt if you have ever been into a lesbian bar in a big city (one with a lot of lesbians). They don't want you there. They want to hit you on the head.

Why would you go into a lesbian biker bar? Are you a lesbian? Are you a biker?

[NeverSure]

I have been fortunate enough to have had a conversation with a few 'Toms' and their respective partners, I will at this point admit that my motives were not totally honorable, however I did glean some information as to 'why' it appears that some of the younger generation are fed up with their Thai male counterparts infidelities, so go in for a bit of tickling the little man in the boat instead.

I will confess that is as far as I have got, my continuous offers of assistance purely on the grounds of research have fallen on death ears

If your tongue is anything like your avatar, one should think, you would have been a welcome third wheel

I can't see his avatar. Is it a picture of him licking his eyebrows?

[chiangmaikelly]

I am saying that because I went into a lesbian biker bar and before I even ordered a drink or opened my mouth to talk they tried to kill me. Trying to kill me I would think is a sign of hate.

I doubt if you have ever been into a lesbian bar in a big city (one with a lot of lesbians). They don't want you there. They want to hit you on the head.

Why would you go into a lesbian biker bar? Are you a lesbian? Are you a biker?

The first one I went to was in Chicago. It was to pick up my girlfriend's sister. I should have waited in the car. The second one I went to I was working. It was a bit better but still scary.

[NeverSure]

I am saying that because I went into a lesbian biker bar and before I even ordered a drink or opened my mouth to talk they tried to kill me. Trying to kill me I would think is a sign of hate.

I doubt if you have ever been into a lesbian bar in a big city (one with a lot of lesbians). They don't want you there. They want to hit you on the head.

I stumbled upon a lesbian bar with a band and dancing and all in Portland, Oregon, US about ten years ago. I had no idea, and I sat down at a table and the place got kind of quiet. The woman bartender walked over to me and I still hadn't caught on but she was really nice to me. She simply told me that it was a lesbian bar and that everyone including me would feel better if I went somewhere else.

No kidding, she was really nice about it. I thanked her and split, and there wasn't a problem at all. I can see where a differnet group might have treated me differently, but they were cool.

[noob7]

I stumbled upon a lesbian bar with a band and dancing and all in Portland, Oregon, US about ten years ago. I had no idea, and I sat down at a table and the place got kind of quiet. The woman bartender walked over to me and I still hadn't caught on but she was really nice to me. She simply told me that it was a lesbian bar and that everyone including me would feel better if I went somewhere else.

No kidding, she was really nice about it. I thanked her and split, and there wasn't a problem at all. I can see where a differnet group might have treated me differently, but they were cool.

Next time, you can try to pretend to be gay. b/c that's why you went there, that people told you, it is a gay bar!

And that they didn't tell you, that this evening is for the females only.

Edited October 16, 2012 by noob7

[Oww]

For a lot of younger straight girls, the tom-dee relationship is a safe 'time killing' relationship before they are of marrying age. Safe as is former 'dees' usually aren't considered 2nd hand or damaged goods to local fellows. For older straight girls, again the tom-dee relationship is a convenient and 'safe' escape from what would otherwise be a lonely 'over the hill' existence. Naturally mixed in there would be legitimate lesbians.

:-)

Where did you get this piece of wisdom from? My bet is that you have never met any tom or dee.

I've lived in CM for 10 years and see them all the time. The toms always have the most beautiful girls. Heng is spot on.

My sister in law was with a tom, but only until about the age of 25 when it came time to get serious about a relationship

leading to a family. She then dumped the tom right on her crewcut. The only thing Heng forgot to mention; Toms ALWAYS pay for EVERYTHING. Those beauties have some brains too.

[DrTuner]

Seems to be some sort of evolutionary mandate. Men hanging out too long with models turn gay and models lesbian. I'm sure some resident darwinist can explain that.

[tombkk]

About those lesbian killer bars. There are bars were men are not wanted. There are also ( male) gay bars were women are not wanted, and straight bars were gays/lesbians are not wanted. While everybody says we should accept everybody, this is still not reality, and all need some refuge.

Respect each other, I‘d say, and give each group the right to be among themselves once in a while, or at certain locations.

The experience mentioned by one member certainly does not mean that all lesbians are out to kill you.

In fact, I‘d wager that most wouldn‘t even consider it. Just give them their space too, would you?

Sent from my LG-P698f using Thaivisa Connect App

[jshorts]

For a lot of younger straight girls, the tom-dee relationship is a safe 'time killing' relationship before they are of marrying age. Safe as is former 'dees' usually aren't considered 2nd hand or damaged goods to local fellows. For older straight girls, again the tom-dee relationship is a convenient and 'safe' escape from what would otherwise be a lonely 'over the hill' existence. Naturally mixed in there would be legitimate lesbians.

:-)

Where did you get this piece of wisdom from? My bet is that you have never met any tom or dee.

I've lived in CM for 10 years and see them all the time. The toms always have the most beautiful girls. Heng is spot on.

My sister in law was with a tom, but only until about the age of 25 when it came time to get serious about a relationship

leading to a family. She then dumped the tom right on her crewcut. The only thing Heng forgot to mention; Toms ALWAYS pay for EVERYTHING. Those beauties have some brains too.

Is that similar to how "fahrangs" always pay for everthing?

[Vale Tudo]

No one has said that lesbians "hate" men. Where did you get that idea? They are just not sexually attracted to them.

Did you ever go to a lesbian biker bar? Are you nuts?

A lesbian biker bar is only one kind of bar. Just as there are singles bars, couples bar, a go go bars, host bars, so are these many different kinds of lesbian bars. Do straight people hate lesbians? Do straight people hate gay people? Why do you imagine that lesbians or gay people would hate you? They are just not attracted sexually to you.

I am saying that because I went into a lesbian biker bar and before I even ordered a drink or opened my mouth to talk they tried to kill me. Trying to kill me I would think is a sign of hate.

I doubt if you have ever been into a lesbian bar in a big city (one with a lot of lesbians). They don't want you there. They want to hit you on the head.

Are you sure that's just a lesbian problem?

[chiangmaikelly]

Did you ever go to a lesbian biker bar? Are you nuts?

A lesbian biker bar is only one kind of bar. Just as there are singles bars, couples bar, a go go bars, host bars, so are these many different kinds of lesbian bars. Do straight people hate lesbians? Do straight people hate gay people? Why do you imagine that lesbians or gay people would hate you? They are just not attracted sexually to you.

I am saying that because I went into a lesbian biker bar and before I even ordered a drink or opened my mouth to talk they tried to kill me. Trying to kill me I would think is a sign of hate.

I doubt if you have ever been into a lesbian bar in a big city (one with a lot of lesbians). They don't want you there. They want to hit you on the head.

Are you sure that's just a lesbian problem?

Yes. Straight bars no problem. Gay men bars no problem. Lesbian biker bars problem.

Lesbian biker bars are one of those things like Thailand; before one talks about it one should go and experience it.

[onthemoon]

A lesbian biker bar is only one kind of bar. Just as there are singles bars, couples bar, a go go bars, host bars, so are these many different kinds of lesbian bars. Do straight people hate lesbians? Do straight people hate gay people? Why do you imagine that lesbians or gay people would hate you? They are just not attracted sexually to you.

I am saying that because I went into a lesbian biker bar and before I even ordered a drink or opened my mouth to talk they tried to kill me. Trying to kill me I would think is a sign of hate.

I doubt if you have ever been into a lesbian bar in a big city (one with a lot of lesbians). They don't want you there. They want to hit you on the head.

Are you sure that's just a lesbian problem?

Yes. Straight bars no problem. Gay men bars no problem. Lesbian biker bars problem.

Lesbian biker bars are one of those things like Thailand; before one talks about it one should go and experience it.

They are harmless compared to Western countries. My advice is to stay out and respect their need to have their own space.

[Vale Tudo]

A lesbian biker bar is only one kind of bar. Just as there are singles bars, couples bar, a go go bars, host bars, so are these many different kinds of lesbian bars. Do straight people hate lesbians? Do straight people hate gay people? Why do you imagine that lesbians or gay people would hate you? They are just not attracted sexually to you.

I am saying that because I went into a lesbian biker bar and before I even ordered a drink or opened my mouth to talk they tried to kill me. Trying to kill me I would think is a sign of hate.

I doubt if you have ever been into a lesbian bar in a big city (one with a lot of lesbians). They don't want you there. They want to hit you on the head.

Are you sure that's just a lesbian problem?

Yes. Straight bars no problem. Gay men bars no problem. Lesbian biker bars problem.

Lesbian biker bars are one of those things like Thailand; before one talks about it one should go and experience it.

Have you been having tea with Mr Tumnus recently?You know,in that closet thing?

[chiangmaikelly]

I am saying that because I went into a lesbian biker bar and before I even ordered a drink or opened my mouth to talk they tried to kill me. Trying to kill me I would think is a sign of hate.

I doubt if you have ever been into a lesbian bar in a big city (one with a lot of lesbians). They don't want you there. They want to hit you on the head.

Are you sure that's just a lesbian problem?

Yes. Straight bars no problem. Gay men bars no problem. Lesbian biker bars problem.

Lesbian biker bars are one of those things like Thailand; before one talks about it one should go and experience it.

They are harmless compared to Western countries. My advice is to stay out and respect their need to have their own space.

Are you saying there are lesbian biker bars in Thailand?

[Oww]

For a lot of younger straight girls, the tom-dee relationship is a safe 'time killing' relationship before they are of marrying age. Safe as is former 'dees' usually aren't considered 2nd hand or damaged goods to local fellows. For older straight girls, again the tom-dee relationship is a convenient and 'safe' escape from what would otherwise be a lonely 'over the hill' existence. Naturally mixed in there would be legitimate lesbians.

:-)

Where did you get this piece of wisdom from? My bet is that you have never met any tom or dee.

I've lived in CM for 10 years and see them all the time. The toms always have the most beautiful girls. Heng is spot on.

My sister in law was with a tom, but only until about the age of 25 when it came time to get serious about a relationship

leading to a family. She then dumped the tom right on her crewcut. The only thing Heng forgot to mention; Toms ALWAYS pay for EVERYTHING. Those beauties have some brains too.

Is that similar to how "fahrangs" always pay for everthing?

Exactly the same. Well almost, the "fahrangs" girlfriends are alot uglier.

[noob7]

Where did you get this piece of wisdom from? My bet is that you have never met any tom or dee.

I've lived in CM for 10 years and see them all the time. The toms always have the most beautiful girls. Heng is spot on.

My sister in law was with a tom, but only until about the age of 25 when it came time to get serious about a relationship

leading to a family. She then dumped the tom right on her crewcut. The only thing Heng forgot to mention; Toms ALWAYS pay for EVERYTHING. Those beauties have some brains too.

Is that similar to how "fahrangs" always pay for everthing?

Exactly the same. Well almost, the "fahrangs" girlfriends are alot uglier.

Not sure about that. Down here (Phuket), you still see xx times more Farangs with 'gf', than Toms.

Of course, it's the location, more Farangs available, but...!

Also many of them are older, than most 'Dee's', you will spot

I still would guess, in many cases, the Farang 'gf' was once a 'Dee'. But the bio clock's still ticking, too!

Also, for the Farang, the status is the youth, mostly. Not the outstanding prettiness, as I sometimes think, a Tom is going/paying for!

Also, in the end, the economy comes in. Not all Farangs believe in unlimited love! Or can afford it.

Edited October 18, 2012 by noob7

[onthemoon]

Yes. Straight bars no problem. Gay men bars no problem. Lesbian biker bars problem.

Lesbian biker bars are one of those things like Thailand; before one talks about it one should go and experience it.

They are harmless compared to Western countries. My advice is to stay out and respect their need to have their own space.

Are you saying there are lesbian biker bars in Thailand?

I wouldn't know. But you seem to claim you have made that experience.

[cicinette]

Do you really think it is more shocking than ugly white old men with beautiful young thai girls...?

You ever been to a lesbian biker bar? Way beyond shocking. So to answer your question, yes. As to your next question are all old white men ugly? Do you think they are?

Well, never been and don t want to...I forgot to add fat, so it is just shocking to see they come here to get girls they would never have back home, so yes yes that s shocking to me! maybe I haven t been to Thailand long enough to be used to that!

Wait till you see the old Thai guys with the two minor wives. Now that's a trip. Or the stuff that goes on in a Thai office. This is not a place I would want to be a woman or have any of my daughters work. Of course just my opinion. I am sure there are places which are fine and managed by the upstanding types who post here on TV.

Well I read that about thai men, is that a good excuse for white men??? Sorry but Farang may treat thai women better than thai men would do (and not even sure...since paying for sex is degrading...not matter what would the girls say, she needs to convince herself)...but as a straight white woman, I noticed white men being less gentlemen (with thain or white women than back home, got used to treat women with less respect.

[chiangmaikelly]

Yes. Straight bars no problem. Gay men bars no problem. Lesbian biker bars problem.

Lesbian biker bars are one of those things like Thailand; before one talks about it one should go and experience it.

They are harmless compared to Western countries. My advice is to stay out and respect their need to have their own space.

Are you saying there are lesbian biker bars in Thailand?

I wouldn't know. But you seem to claim you have made that experience.

No not at all. I have never been into a lesbian biker bar in Thailand and I don't think they exist.

[chiangmaikelly]

You ever been to a lesbian biker bar? Way beyond shocking. So to answer your question, yes. As to your next question are all old white men ugly? Do you think they are?

Well, never been and don t want to...I forgot to add fat, so it is just shocking to see they come here to get girls they would never have back home, so yes yes that s shocking to me! maybe I haven t been to Thailand long enough to be used to that!

Wait till you see the old Thai guys with the two minor wives. Now that's a trip. Or the stuff that goes on in a Thai office. This is not a place I would want to be a woman or have any of my daughters work. Of course just my opinion. I am sure there are places which are fine and managed by the upstanding types who post here on TV.

Well I read that about thai men, is that a good excuse for white men??? Sorry but Farang may treat thai women better than thai men would do (and not even sure...since paying for sex is degrading...not matter what would the girls say, she needs to convince herself)...but as a straight white woman, I noticed white men being less gentlemen (with thain or white women than back home, got used to treat women with less respect.

Who would you say is the judge of how men should treat women in Thailand? Should young women from France be allowed to come to Thailand and have their standards of behavior instituted all over Thailand as the new norm to be followed? Or should we exclude Thai men from this new French standard? Or should we exclude or include men based on skin color or nationality or percent of nationality or some skin color?

I think you may realize that there are some differences between Thailand and France. Should people who move here try and fit into the local patterns or stick to what they are used to from their home country?

How do we know which rules to follow and what to ignore? Is there some agency we can refer to?

If one is Dutch a lot of things are legal there that will get one put in jail here? What to do?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I greatly prefer female companion/partners that are primarily of the "dee" persuasion.

Makes scoring without shelling out too much that bit more of a challenge, and more importantly, helps keep the relationship from getting too complicated down the road.

[cicinette]

I know I shouldn t have started to write on that forum, most of you have been here for decades, and as a fresh farang (not sure we can use this word for women), you can t see what I see....Basically I was trying to say that when one moves here, there a lot of shocking things (behaviour, couples...) no matter what you say. That s also where the reputation of Thailand comes from, land of smiles or land of sex...and If I moved here, it is because there are lot of bright sides, and I love it here...the daak side and I hope I would never get used to it, it that kind of prostitution all around. That's all.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

IMO there's nothing wrong with any human being of whatever sex choosing to make money from their youth and beauty, as long as there isn't coercion or deception involved.

Thais just define "prostitution" a lot more narrowly than Christianity-brainwashed farang do.

I've lived here long enough that I've come around to the Thai cultural point of view - expecting to get sex without paying for it is the ultimate expression of disrespect to women. The more you pay for it the more respect you're showing the woman. Of course giving more than "just money" is even better if the recipient is open to your gifts and in a position to benefit long-term, and that's when the more rewarding relationships emerge from the purely transactional ones.

But trying to get beautiful young girls here to go to bed with you for free when you're a fat balding old guy is pretty much a non-starter, and when they're so many willing providers and such arrangements are sanctioned by the society we're guests of, please don't try to claim it's us abusing them.

[chiangmaikelly]

I know I shouldn t have started to write on that forum, most of you have been here for decades, and as a fresh farang (not sure we can use this word for women), you can t see what I see....Basically I was trying to say that when one moves here, there a lot of shocking things (behaviour, couples...) no matter what you say. That s also where the reputation of Thailand comes from, land of smiles or land of sex...and If I moved here, it is because there are lot of bright sides, and I love it here...the daak side and I hope I would never get used to it, it that kind of prostitution all around. That's all.

When the first Americans went to France during WWI they were shocked. Shocked so much they wrote songs about it. Perhaps you should become acquainted with a bit of history.

[cicinette]

yes sure, what happened more than 90 years ago might change my mind!

[BigJohnnyBKK]

yes sure, what happened more than 90 years ago might change my mind!

I think the point was to help you become aware that your views on sexual morality are a product of your childhood social/cultural/religious programming rather than anything based on objective reality or "universal" ethics.

BTW yes "farang" does apply to women and men equally, and yes most of the farang women I know are much less happy about the sexual-culture differences here than the guys. I suspect that's got more to do with practical and personal reasons than abstract ones of ethics and morality, as the sex-positive "cougar" types, especially the "Toms" I know, seem to like it just fine.

[chiangmaikelly]

yes sure, what happened more than 90 years ago might change my mind!

Ethnocentrism leads us to make false assumptions about cultural differences. We are ethnocentric when we use our cultural norms to make generalizations about other peoples' cultures and customs. Such generalizations -- often made without a conscious awareness that we've used our culture as a universal yardstick -- can be way off base and cause us to misjudge other peoples. Ethnocentrism can lead to cultural misinterpretation and it often distorts communication between human beings.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Ethnocentrism leads us to make false assumptions about cultural differences. We are ethnocentric when we use our cultural norms to make generalizations about other peoples' cultures and customs. Such generalizations -- often made without a conscious awareness that we've used our culture as a universal yardstick -- can be way off base and cause us to misjudge other peoples. Ethnocentrism can lead to cultural misinterpretation and it often distorts communication between human beings.

And to the extent one is trying to be free of this mostly unconscious cultural programming, it is helpful to be aware that to do so "completely" is as difficult as reaching full-buddha enlightenment status, IOW impossible.

Like trying to get a fish to explain what it's like to live underwater. . .

But that doesn't make it less important to keep trying, just that being open to change requires maintaining awareness of how far you are from your goal.

[Vale Tudo]

I know I shouldn t have started to write on that forum, most of you have been here for decades, and as a fresh farang (not sure we can use this word for women), you can t see what I see....Basically I was trying to say that when one moves here, there a lot of shocking things (behaviour, couples...) no matter what you say. That s also where the reputation of Thailand comes from, land of smiles or land of sex...and If I moved here, it is because there are lot of bright sides, and I love it here...the daak side and I hope I would never get used to it, it that kind of prostitution all around. That's all.

But there is prostitution all around France and the rest of Europe also.It's not called the 'Oldest Profession" for no reason!

Mary Magdalene from the Bible was a prostitute!It's not about what's right or wrong,it's about what is!

[Vale Tudo]

yes sure, what happened more than 90 years ago might change my mind!

I think the point was to help you become aware that your views on sexual morality are a product of your childhood social/cultural/religious programming rather than anything based on objective reality or "universal" ethics.

BTW yes "farang" does apply to women and men equally, and yes most of the farang women I know are much less happy about the sexual-culture differences here than the guys. I suspect that's got more to do with practical and personal reasons than abstract ones of ethics and morality, as the sex-positive "cougar" types, especially the "Toms" I know, seem to like it just fine.

Western women don't like it here because it's all turned on it's head.Asian girls chase the guys and Western women don't get a look in,it's down to jealousy!

The Lonely Planet guide to Thailand even talks about it on the introduction page of stereotypes you'll see here.The bitter Farang woman is called the 'Golden Bowl' or something like that by the Thais apparently!