Thailand's War With The Uk

[RabC]

Don't feed The Troll

Sorry, but I do not understand your post?

Win what?

Since when did the U.K. manufacture anything anyway? Like to U.S. they have completely outsourced the majority of all industrial production.

When was the last time you met a factory worker in the U.K.?

Ignorance is obviously bliss read the link posted earlier that UK actually now produces more cars than Germany. I fully agree the industrial situation in the UK is sad but to even try and compare it with Thailand is apples and oranges

Edited October 14, 2012 by RabC

[chiangmaikelly]

Nothing to do with the state of the economy in the UK since 2008 and the emerging market in Asia ?

Hey I am not crying about red and yellow shirts. Man up and call a spade a spade. UK does not have the tools to get the job done anymore.

Maybe you should check the nationalities of the engineers in top level motorsport or the nationalities of the top car car designers except for Coventy University and royal college of art educated half british Julian Thompson I don't think you'll find many Thais. Brits on the other hand.

But yes we have rather a lot of media studies and arts graduates these days just like Thailand.

Sales Arthur. Money. Not complicated. Sales. The auto business is about sales. The word business. Business is about sales. Auto racing is about sales. Advertising is about sales. It is all sales. No spin. Just dollars the rest walks you know?

[chiangmaikelly]

So this is a UK bash then ?

I prefer to call it a truth searching thread about Thailand and the UK competing for 11th 12th and 13th place internationally for auto sales.

OP you didn't click on the link did you ? ( http://www.dailymail...tal-Europe.html) which clearly shows how well the UK is doing. You're comparing oranges to kumquats.

You started this thread based on manufacturing & now it is sales ?

You don't build cars if they don't sell do you? Your quote would be good if the thread was about auto production UK vs Germany. It's not. This is Thailand, Thai Visa ya?

Edited October 14, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[Scully]

Don't feed The Troll

Sorry, but I do not understand your post?

Win what?

Since when did the U.K. manufacture anything anyway? Like to U.S. they have completely outsourced the majority of all industrial production.

When was the last time you met a factory worker in the U.K.?

Well Thailand has gone to Britain for its steel production recently.

[chiangmaikelly]

Don't feed The Troll

Sorry, but I do not understand your post?

Win what?

Since when did the U.K. manufacture anything anyway? Like to U.S. they have completely outsourced the majority of all industrial production.

When was the last time you met a factory worker in the U.K.?

Ignorance is obviously bliss read the link posted earlier that UK actually now produces more cars than Germany. I fully agree the industrial situation in the UK is sad but to even try and compare it with Thailand is apples and oranges

It is easy to compare UK auto sales 2010 1,393,463, Thailand 1,644,513. Now that wasn't hard was it?

Edited October 14, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[meatballs]

I don't think any Anglo country is a manufacturing giant these days. No doubt due to neoliberal trade policies.

[bangkokburning]

Rover

Rolls

Bentley

Jaguar

Sorry, you are speaking of Japanese engineering. Only thing Thai's engineer well is a traffic jam.

Edited October 14, 2012 by bangkokburning

[RabC]

In your OP you said production now you say sales, which is it? Sorry should have guessed whichever figures can be used to bash the UK.

I should have paid attention to my own earlier post and not fed the Troll

[WilliaminBKK]

So this is a UK bash then ?

I prefer to call it a truth searching thread about Thailand and the UK competing for 11th 12th and 13th place internationally for auto sales.

OP you didn't click on the link did you ? ( http://www.dailymail...tal-Europe.html) which clearly shows how well the UK is doing. You're comparing oranges to kumquats.

You started this thread based on manufacturing & now it is sales ?

You don't build cars if they don't sell do you? Your quote would be good if the thread was about auto production UK vs Germany. It's not. This is Thailand, Thai Visa ya?

It is spot on, you want to bash the UK and compare it to Thailand, whilst the article clearly shows the UK is manufacturing more cars than Germany obviously something is going on for car company's to set up shop in the UK. You started the thread based on Thailand building more cars ............stop using wiki is it sales or manufacturing ?

[chiangmaikelly]

In your OP you said production now you say sales, which is it? Sorry should have guessed whichever figures can be used to bash the UK.

I should have paid attention to my own earlier post and not fed the Troll

Either one. You don't make cars that you don't sell. At least not in Thailand. We can bash Detroit for a while if you like? My point is that Thailand is overtaking car production and sales in the UK. I don't think it will do that to the US because the US is too large a domestic market.

[chiangmaikelly]

I prefer to call it a truth searching thread about Thailand and the UK competing for 11th 12th and 13th place internationally for auto sales.

OP you didn't click on the link did you ? ( http://www.dailymail...tal-Europe.html) which clearly shows how well the UK is doing. You're comparing oranges to kumquats.

You started this thread based on manufacturing & now it is sales ?

You don't build cars if they don't sell do you? Your quote would be good if the thread was about auto production UK vs Germany. It's not. This is Thailand, Thai Visa ya?

It is spot on, you want to bash the UK and compare it to Thailand, whilst the article clearly shows the UK is manufacturing more cars than Germany obviously something is going on for car company's to set up shop in the UK. You started the thread based on Thailand building more cars ............stop using wiki is it sales or manufacturing ?

I said nothing about Germany. Nothing. You can use new car sales or production. Production is probably more accurate. Is your argument that the UK produces more cars than Thailand because it produces more than Germany?

Edited October 14, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[meatballs]

That link is wrong. Need to check the facts. This clearly shows UK is far behind Germany in auto production.

http://www.worldometers.info/cars/

[nietzche]

Don't feed The Troll

Sorry, but I do not understand your post?

Win what?

Since when did the U.K. manufacture anything anyway? Like to U.S. they have completely outsourced the majority of all industrial production.

When was the last time you met a factory worker in the U.K.?

Ignorance is obviously bliss read the link posted earlier that UK actually now produces more cars than Germany. I fully agree the industrial situation in the UK is sad but to even try and compare it with Thailand is apples and oranges

It is easy to compare UK auto sales 2010 1,393,463, Thailand 1,644,513. Now that wasn't hard was it?

I don't mean any offense, but aside from cars/steel as someone else stated, the U.K. is not know for industrial production, where Thailand is.

It's a natural progression for a more advanced economy to move away from the production low end tangibles, to the production of higher end goods and services.

The U.S. (I'm sure the U.K. also) derives around 50% of it's GDP from "services", (i.e. financial, intellectual, intangibles).

Before the government bailout of GM in the U.S., the average 'union' UAW autoworker received a salary (including benefits) of around $75 per hour. The average college graduate received less than half of that.

Production of things like automobiles will naturally be reallocated to countries with lower production costs (as they should be).

This does not mean the U.K. is losing. It just means that he average U.K. consumer wins because they pay a lower price for such goods.

The profits still flow back to the companies home country.

In the era of globalization, it is no longer a case of once country winning and the other losing. When one country wins, generally everyone else wins and vice versa. There are only variations in the degree of success.

[trainman34014]

Just another slanging match started by a Brit' hater. Stop rising to the bait lads.

[Scully]

Thailand won in 2010 but the UK came back in 2011 and won. Auto production. Thailand has steadily increased rank and production numbers in spite of the overwhelming negativity of Thai Visa posters and economic experts over the years.

It is only a matter of time before superior Thai engineering and production techniques and worker quality boost Thailand to a place permanently above the UK.

It doesn't take a brain trust to see this is a battle and the winner easy to see in spite of the Anglo spin doctors.

I'll go on record to predict 2012 Thailand will win and never look back. The UK will forever after take a back seat to Thai auto production.

The Federation of Thai Industries projects that annual production of Thailand’s automotive industry will pass 3 million units from 2017, and the Thailand Automotive Institute is even more gung ho by predicting that mark will be hit sooner in 2015.

In 2011, Thailand produced 1.46 million vehicles. One- ton pickup trucks are the local industry’s largest single product category, making up 61% of total automotive output in Thailand, the world’s biggest producer and exporter of the line. The country is also Southeast Asia’s top sales market for pickups.

The top five car export destinations were Indonesia, Australia, Japan, the Philippines and Malaysia, out of the 170 nations to which Thailand exports vehicles.

The country is also a major motorcycle hub. Last year Thailand manufactured nearly 2.05 million CBU motorcycles, with family models accounting for 94% of production and sports models constituting a lesser line

http://www.boi.go.th/tir/issue/201204_22_4/42.htm

Nothing to do with the recession then ?

More to do with Thailand's superior engineering and production techniques.

If you had a point it might be relevant however it is such nonsense that everyone is calling it crap not just Brits.

[chiangmaikelly]

Just another slanging match started by a Brit' hater. Stop rising to the bait lads.

Please point out anything I have said that would imply I hate anyone? Saying that Thailand produces more autos than the UK is not hating anyone. Perhaps you could educate me where it is? Thailand will this year produce more autos than the UK and will also next year and did before in 2010. Now tell me where is the hate in that?

[chiangmaikelly]

Thailand won in 2010 but the UK came back in 2011 and won. Auto production. Thailand has steadily increased rank and production numbers in spite of the overwhelming negativity of Thai Visa posters and economic experts over the years.

It is only a matter of time before superior Thai engineering and production techniques and worker quality boost Thailand to a place permanently above the UK.

It doesn't take a brain trust to see this is a battle and the winner easy to see in spite of the Anglo spin doctors.

I'll go on record to predict 2012 Thailand will win and never look back. The UK will forever after take a back seat to Thai auto production.

The Federation of Thai Industries projects that annual production of Thailand's automotive industry will pass 3 million units from 2017, and the Thailand Automotive Institute is even more gung ho by predicting that mark will be hit sooner in 2015.

In 2011, Thailand produced 1.46 million vehicles. One- ton pickup trucks are the local industry's largest single product category, making up 61% of total automotive output in Thailand, the world's biggest producer and exporter of the line. The country is also Southeast Asia's top sales market for pickups.

The top five car export destinations were Indonesia, Australia, Japan, the Philippines and Malaysia, out of the 170 nations to which Thailand exports vehicles.

The country is also a major motorcycle hub. Last year Thailand manufactured nearly 2.05 million CBU motorcycles, with family models accounting for 94% of production and sports models constituting a lesser line

http://www.boi.go.th...204_22_4/42.htm

Nothing to do with the recession then ?

More to do with Thailand's superior engineering and production techniques.

If you had a point it might be relevant however it is such nonsense that everyone is calling it crap not just Brits.

I am saying the recession is global and that Thailand's own problems red and yellow and so on balance out with any UK problems. The difference is management and labor and thinking.

[Beechboy]

OK. I'll bite. Let's stick to real facts rather than suppositions and distortions voiced by some individual with an, as yet to be explained, predjudical stance:-

Compare the following with Thailand at will, to satisfy some obscure need you seem to have.

Are your Thai figures accurate, by the way? Some would doubt that to be the case, for reasons we can all guess at.

http://www.smmt.co.u...2011-full-year/

Edited October 14, 2012 by Beechboy

[JurgenG]

Drop the import tax and see how good the industry really is then.

Probably one of the biggest factors involved here, has nothing to do with Thai Quality.

Good point, the Thai government is brighter than the UK government. I have thought that for years.

I think it is mostly a Thai government will to invest in manufacturing while the English government bet everything on the financial sector.

The UK and Thailand are not at the same stage of development so we have to be careful not to compare apples and oranges. That said, I think that Thailand was very smart to offer Japan an alternative to China as a manufacturing base, not only for cars but also for a number of electronics products as well. On the other hand, given the crises we had in the recent years, and the reaction from public opinion and governments all over the world, I'm not so sure that the UK bet was such a smart move. Future will tell.

Edited October 14, 2012 by JurgenG

[impulse]

Let's try this. Name one Thai automobile powerhouse brand.

I see tons of Japanese car brands, quite a few Korean brands, a lot of German brands, and some US and other brands here on the streets of Bangkok.

So far, I haven't been able to identify any Thai brands. Perhaps I'm not looking hard enough.

Doesn't take a lot of high level skills to insert tab A into slot B, and then sell the finished product according to the instructions from the home office back in _______ (fill in your own auto town). Then you send the profits back to the home office...

Not dissing the Thai people as I have found them to be as industrious and smart as any others I've met.

Sadly, they seem to be stuck in a system that rewards connections and family ties more than innovation, initiative and achievement.

Edited October 14, 2012 by impulse

[GuestHouse]

There are a number of issues the OP misses, fails to address or simply can't get his head around.

The first is the huge import tariffs applied to Automotive imports in Thailand - So where the UK is an open market and the UK's Automotive industry is not subsidised and not protected by the government the same cannot be said of the Thai Automotive industry.

Secondly there is a world wide overproduction of mass produced budget vehicles - Sales of UK budget vehicles have risen this year, but nobody expects that to continue - Expectation is that lower demand in Europe and greater international competition will reduce sales of Mass Produced vehicles in the UK. Of course these same impacts will hit Thailand's automotive industry, but you'll not find it being discussed in the local press or the BoI circulars.

On the flip side, the UK's luxury Automotive industry is booming, with production at Jaguar, RangeRover/LandRover flat out and long long waiting lists for other top end motors. All of which have a high content of UK Engineering and design. The UK's dominance of the racing Automotive industry needs no explanation.

Thailand has no luxury car maker, little if any Thai engineering or design content in any vehicle produced in Thailand and the only contribution to the Automotive Racing industry that Thailand makes is go faster stickers plastered on Toyotas driven by people who can't see over the steering wheel.

And then there is the blindingly obvious fact that while Thailand has been very successful at importing mass manufacture of Automotive vehicles (well done Thailand) there is next to no Thai engineering or design content in these vehicles AND as a matter of observation there is next to no other Thai engineering industry.

Compare this to the UK, where as mentioned there is a broad spectrum Automotive industry (with significant UK engineering and design content) PLUS a host of other industries that are simply not present in Thailand - Aerospace, Defence Technology, Communications Technology, Power Engineering, Chemical Engineering, Pharmaceutical Engineering, Oil and Gas Engineering.

Plus a substantial research and development infrastructure both privately funded research centres and university department led research.

But yes, Thailand has done very well importing other people's manufacturing - Thailand has failed to build an engineering expertise on the back of this and those who are in charge of developing these industries further in Thailand are probably still grimacing from the effect of the floods last year.

Having read the BoI report on the car industry, perhaps it might be worth writing to them to ask how many companies close shop and went elsewhere after the floods of last year.

Bet your bottom dollar, Toyota, Honda et al, took note of the floods last year and the Thai government's lack of planning (smoke and mirrors) bet your bottom dollar they are working on Plan B....... Though they might not have told the BoI about it just yet.

[chiangmaikelly]

There are a number of issues the OP misses, fails to address or simply can't get his head around.

The first is the huge import tariffs applied to Automotive imports in Thailand - So where the UK is an open market and the UK's Automotive industry is not subsidised and not protected by the government the same cannot be said of the Thai Automotive industry.

Secondly there is a world wide overproduction of mass produced budget vehicles - Sales of UK budget vehicles have risen this year, but nobody expects that to continue - Expectation is that lower demand in Europe and greater international competition will reduce sales of Mass Produced vehicles in the UK. Of course these same impacts will hit Thailand's automotive industry, but you'll not find it being discussed in the local press or the BoI circulars.

On the flip side, the UK's luxury Automotive industry is booming, with production at Jaguar, RangeRover/LandRover flat out and long long waiting lists for other top end motors. All of which have a high content of UK Engineering and design. The UK's dominance of the racing Automotive industry needs no explanation.

Thailand has no luxury car maker, little if any Thai engineering or design content in any vehicle produced in Thailand and the only contribution to the Automotive Racing industry that Thailand makes is go faster stickers plastered on Toyotas driven by people who can't see over the steering wheel.

And then there is the blindingly obvious fact that while Thailand has been very successful at importing mass manufacture of Automotive vehicles (well done Thailand) there is next to no Thai engineering or design content in these vehicles AND as a matter of observation there is next to no other Thai engineering industry.

Compare this to the UK, where as mentioned there is a broad spectrum Automotive industry (with significant UK engineering and design content) PLUS a host of other industries that are simply not present in Thailand - Aerospace, Defence Technology, Communications Technology, Power Engineering, Chemical Engineering, Pharmaceutical Engineering, Oil and Gas Engineering.

Plus a substantial research and development infrastructure both privately funded research centres and university department led research.

But yes, Thailand has done very well importing other people's manufacturing - Thailand has failed to build an engineering expertise on the back of this and those who are in charge of developing these industries further in Thailand are probably still grimacing from the effect of the floods last year.

Having read the BoI report on the car industry, perhaps it might be worth writing to them to ask how many companies close shop and went elsewhere after the floods of last year.

Bet your bottom dollar, Toyota, Honda et al, took note of the floods last year and the Thai government's lack of planning (smoke and mirrors) bet your bottom dollar they are working on Plan B....... Though they might not have told the BoI about it just yet.

GH said, "Thailand has no luxury car maker,"

Thonburi Automotive Assembly Plant Co., Ltd. Began To Assemble Chassis For Commercial Vehicles At Plant No. 1. Subsequently, It Expanded Its Operation To Cover The Assembly Of Mercedes-benz Passenger Cars In C-class, E-class And S-class Models At Plant No. 2 In Samut Prakan Province. Considered By Leading Car Manufacturers As One Of The Most Modern Factories In Southeast Asia, The Plant Has A Capacity Of 12,000 Cars Per Year. Thonburi Group Was Appointed By Daimlerchrysler (thailand) Ltd. To Be The Authorized Assembler Of Mercedes-benz�s C-class, E-class, S-class And A-class Models, In Accordance With Daimlerchrysler Ag�s Stringent Quality Standards.

[transam]

If the Thai motor factory work force were paid similar wages to the west, see what happens.

Remove the daft import tax on car imports to LOS, see what happens.

Ooooop's. Doe's Thailand actually design and build their own mark. Hmmmmmm, no, put together others cos a very poorly paid workforce.

[chuckles]

In the end it comes down to the cost of producing a product.

In the UK the Japanese manufacturers make and sell cars. The cost to produce will be made up of labour and materials. In the UK, materials and particularly labour costs will be much higher because EU employment legislation and minimum wage makes it so.

As JurgenG pointed out, Industrial growth in Thailand is at a different stage of development, probably similar to the UK motor industry of the 1960's. Thai plant, materials and particularly labour costs are considerably lower than in The UK.

The other major difference is the price of the finished product. Cars produced for the home market cost more on a like for like basis in Thailand than they do in UK, so Thai margins will be much more profitable for the parent company.

The parent company will therefore encourage greater production in Asian markets.

The UK/EU market is much more diverse and, as has already been pointed out, concentrates considerable effort in high end specialist products which are presently beyond Thai industry.

Final point is that Thailand actively discourages any competition with high auto import tarrifs. The UK market has to compete within the EU on a level playing field.

[JurgenG]

Rover

Rolls

Bentley

Jaguar

Sorry, you are speaking of Japanese engineering. Only thing Thai's engineer well is a traffic jam.

Great British companies

Rolls Royce belongs to BMW (Germany), Bentley to Volkswagen (Germany)

But the best is that Jaguar and Rover are owned by ... TATA , an Indian company. Probably by nostalgia of the British Empire

[chiangmaikelly]

There are a number of issues the Guest House misses, fails to address or simply can't get his head around.

http://www.boi.go.th/tir/issue/201204_22_4/42.htm

Born in 1961 with just one assembly plant and output that year of only 525 units, the Thai automotive industry has matured into a world-class production base. Dubbed the “Detroit of the East,” Thailand is a superior investment site for international carmakers due to its strategic location at the heart of Asia, highly skilled but affordable workforce, state-of-the-art industrial estates that focus on the automotive industry, and strong network of parts suppliers. The automotive cluster concept promotes efficiency, lower cost and greater productivity as carmakers and their parts suppliers are in proximity at these specialized estates. The country’s extensive road network, well-developed seaports and international airports also make exporting quick and convenient.

Recognizing the country’s operational advantages, nearly all of the world’s leading vehicle makers, assemblers and parts manufacturers have production bases and even R&D centers in Thailand.

[chiangmaikelly]

If the Thai motor factory work force were paid similar wages to the west, see what happens.

Remove the daft import tax on car imports to LOS, see what happens.

Ooooop's. Doe's Thailand actually design and build their own mark. Hmmmmmm, no, put together others cos a very poorly paid workforce.

Mr. Fumihiko Ike, President & Chief Executive Officer, Asian Honda Motor Co., Ltd. said, “Based on our strong, long-term commitment to the development of Thailand’s automotive industry, Honda has established a new regional automobile R&D center here in Thailand. The center’s function covers broad research and development activities including product planning, product design research and testing. The new automobile R&D facility will enable Honda to respond even more quickly to changing customer needs in the Asia-Oceania region.”

[JurgenG]

On the other hand, the UK has probably the best car TV show in the world

[chiangmaikelly]

Let's try this. Name one Thai automobile powerhouse brand.

I see tons of Japanese car brands, quite a few Korean brands, a lot of German brands, and some US and other brands here on the streets of Bangkok.

So far, I haven't been able to identify any Thai brands. Perhaps I'm not looking hard enough.

Doesn't take a lot of high level skills to insert tab A into slot B, and then sell the finished product according to the instructions from the home office back in _______ (fill in your own auto town). Then you send the profits back to the home office...

Not dissing the Thai people as I have found them to be as industrious and smart as any others I've met.

Sadly, they seem to be stuck in a system that rewards connections and family ties more than innovation, initiative and achievement.

Once every four years a new model automobile is designed. Then that automobile is produced for the next four years. Of the engineering work that goes into producing an auto the great majority of it is in production.

I don't know the exact ratio but I would think about 1 design engineer to every 10 production engineers.

It takes a lot of skill to run a factory.

Then there is parts. Parts have to be designed and produced locally and it is a multi billion dollar industry.

You are wrong when you say it doesn't take a lot of skill to insert tab into slot b you are wrong. If you had ever worked in the automotive industry you would realize this.

What percent of the profit of Ford of Thailand goes back to Ford in America? About 10% (maybe a little more or less but you get the idea). 90% stays in Thailand.

Edited October 14, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[transam]

If the Thai motor factory work force were paid similar wages to the west, see what happens.

Remove the daft import tax on car imports to LOS, see what happens.

Ooooop's. Doe's Thailand actually design and build their own mark. Hmmmmmm, no, put together others cos a very poorly paid workforce.

Mr. Fumihiko Ike, President & Chief Executive Officer, Asian Honda Motor Co., Ltd. said, “Based on our strong, long-term commitment to the development of Thailand’s automotive industry, Honda has established a new regional automobile R&D center here in Thailand. The center’s function covers broad research and development activities including product planning, product design research and testing. The new automobile R&D facility will enable Honda to respond even more quickly to changing customer needs in the Asia-Oceania region.”

And the salaries paid to these folk are Whoooooooooopy in LOS.