Step By Step Process To Buying A Condo From A Private Owner And Dodgy Behavior At The Condo Show.

[Baloney pony]

My apologies for this being my first post but i've been condo hunting lately and i've been reading this thread and other guides on the internet for buying a condo in Thailand. What i've surmised thus far is that I need to:

1) Transfer money from out of country and get a Thai bank form stating what the funds are for

2) Arrange transaction with the owner and go to land office to finalize payment and receive chanote?

3) Pay associated maintenance and sinkage fees if it's a new unit from the developer.

My question is if i'm buying from the owner directly how is payment arranged? I feel very uncomfortable just writing a big cashier's check to some guy selling his property and handshaking on it. Is there an escrow service or something else which guarantees transfer of deed as is typical in the U.S.?

Another question is if i'm buying a condo from the owner directly what can be the very rough expected transfer fees from a condo purchased for around 8 million? Assuming 50/50 payment.

Not so much a question but I went to the Condo convention today and got plenty of brochures but there were a few developers who acted very dodgy when it came to asking about specific pricing. A few would not even release their price form and would only defer to a "head" sales manager who would answer in vague terms. Is this the "norm" here or is there some other shady business underfoot? How is someone supposed to decide whether they want to buy a piece of property or not if they won't even state their prices.

Thanks for any help and advice in advance.

[cheeryble]

Briefly....

Get your cashier's cheque CROSSED to the seller, whose name must match exactly the last entry on the back of the chanoot.

Go to the land office and hand in the initial details, chanoot etc. after a while you will be called again, you and the seller will be told where to sign and in many places. When that's over and you're told to wait sit back and wait with a book.

Everything is now in the hands of the staff and the process is happening, and you will get a slip with the fee written on it to take to the cashier. You may ask the staff at some point when shall I pay? You will be told that you can now pay, when it is all irreversible. After a short wait you will be called to pick up the deeds with your name now on the back.

If you are apprehensive take someone experienced with you or who speaks good Thai, but a lawyer will do little apart from hold your hand.

The process is actually quite painless.

Transfer fees depend very much when the condo was last transferred, used to bring a total fee of from 3 to 6%, but fees have just risen considerably.

Good luck

Edited October 14, 2012 by cheeryble

[Baloney pony]

Briefly....

Get your cashier's cheque CROSSED to the seller, whose name must be the last entry on the back of the chanoot.

So I make out a cashier's check with the seller's name who is also on the official chanote. Do I request a copy of the chanote to check and make sure everything is on the up and up? How do I make sure they just don't use some false identity to receive funds and then disappear?

Go to the land office and hand in the initial details, chanoot etc. after a while you will be called again, you and the seller will be told where to sign and in many places. When that's over and you're told to wait sit back and wait with a book.

Is the land office the place where the entire purchase is transacted including fees. If i'm reading this correctly are you saying in essence the land office acts in the escrow role? So if I buy a condo for 8 million I hand over a cashier's check there after the land office people vet the details then I pay their fees afterwards when my name is on the deed?

Transfer fees depend very much when the condo was last bought.....less than five years penalised on a sliding scale, used to bring a total fee of from 3 to 6%, but fees have just risen considerably.

Good luck

Is the transfer fee standardized according to the sliding scale or is it "variable" according to the whims of whoever is in charge that day.

[soi41]

Good answer above! And make sure that your condo is part of the 49% foreign quota!!

[Baloney pony]

Good answer above! And make sure that your condo is part of the 49% foreign quota!!

I'm sorry about asking so many questions that are probably very simple for some of you guys who have been through this process but how in the world do I check if i'm part of the 49% quota? Is it something they can just flat out lie to you about?

[Khun Jean]

The landoffice has that information. And yes if an agent's lips are moving then ....

I always give the check to the buyer after the title is transferred. No risk is better then a small risk.

[soi41]

Good answer above! And make sure that your condo is part of the 49% foreign quota!!

I'm sorry about asking so many questions that are probably very simple for some of you guys who have been through this process but how in the world do I check if i'm part of the 49% quota? Is it something they can just flat out lie to you about?

I am no expert either, but I guess the admin-office for your condobuilding, should be able to provide that information for you. And don't take just their words for it, ask to see on paper, who are the registrered owners of the other units in the building (or project if more buildings). Not trying to scare you, but I had a friend, who bought a condo in a building from a Thai, and where the balance was already 51%Thai, 49%Foreign before his purchase. Believe me it gave him a lot of problems and headache.

[IamNotaNumber]

"A few would not even release their price form and would only defer to a "head" sales manager who would answer in vague terms. Is this the "norm" here or is there some other shady business underfoot?"

I suppose that somewhere on the planet there must be a dodgier business than Thai real estate, and with dodgier "professionals" working in it, but for the life of me I cant imagine what it could be.

The morals of Thai real estate is on a par with trafficking endangered species, arms trading and selling your daughter.

[cheeryble]

I'm sorry I omitted some stuff in my previous post

You need a letter from the bank to say the funds have been remitted from abroad in the last X (anyone?) days.

The seller will need a letter from the condo manager saying

A the condo is under the foreign quota with details

B all bills are paid on the unit.

The manager will usually have done this many times. Inform the seller this is required, he may also be a novice.

As for the transfer fee of course it's according to a formula.

Edited October 14, 2012 by cheeryble

[PattayaPhom]

The landoffice has that information. And yes if an agent's lips are moving then ....

I always give the check to the buyer after the title is transferred. No risk is better then a small risk.

Yawn yawn, the OP hasnt mentioned an agent, he stated developer or current owner, move on please KJ, the land office will not have that information, the current owner will need to obtain from JP office.

[Khun Jean]

The landoffice has that information. And yes if an agent's lips are moving then ....

I always give the check to the buyer after the title is transferred. No risk is better then a small risk.

Yawn yawn, the OP hasnt mentioned an agent, he stated developer or current owner, move on please KJ, the land office will not have that information, the current owner will need to obtain from JP office.

Triple yawn, as that is incorrect again, seems to be the norm, are you an agent by change?. Sure the JP office should know, but not always the case.

Landoffice is the only place that knows what is currently registered. It is on the moment you are transferring the condo in your name that the percentages are checked. With a building that is still under construction the risks is that the balance between foreign and Thai can change with sales. So what they do is first say there is still room (even when it is close to 49%), collect your down payment. The more professional (reputable) ones will make it a guarantee as they will do their work mostly correct, but still the only penalty for them is that you get your money back, not the intention when you buy. With 'dodgy' developers, anything goes.

Agents, developer, broker, lawyer etc are mostly interested in one thing only and that is make money. Nothing wrong with that, only the little 'white' lies to make everything more smooth (for them) is what you should be aware of.

And in Thailand they get away with it. What is acceptable here would never be accepted in a western country.

Where do you live? In some wonderfull world where nobody twists the truth a little in their advantage?

And guess what, those little 'white' lies are never in your favor.

Check, double check, triple check, then continue. The OP is not buying a pair of 199 baht shoes!

Edited October 15, 2012 by Khun Jean

[bangkokburning]

This is all quite interesting. If anyone had the time and inclination to create a flowchart or outine it would be invaluable.

[mania]

]I am no expert either, but I guess the admin-office for your condobuilding, should be able to provide that information for you. And don't take just their words for it, ask to see on paper, who are the registrered owners of the other units in the building (or project if more buildings). Not trying to scare you, but I had a friend, who bought a condo in a building from a Thai, and where the balance was already 51%Thai, 49%Foreign before his purchase. Believe me it gave him a lot of problems and headache.

True the management of the building can tell you what quota the room falls under.

49% foreign or 51% Thai

I do not see how there could be any mistake though because when you go to the

land office if your a foreigner & the room is under Thai quota/section of building I do not think you will

be allowed to proceed. As it cannot be held in a foreign ownership/49% section of that building.

Unless of course a slot is available to transfer into

[Khun Jean]

Often when you ask management if something falls under Thai or Foreign quota they pretend that they know and give you what they think is the correct information.

Realize that many people not know that they don't know!!!

As such it is not intentional, just lack of knowledge and current information.

I bought many condos in the lower price range and management is predictable not so good.

However i also find out that in the middle price range 1-5 Mb, they make many mistakes.

Should youthen conclude that in the higher price range everything is done perfectly, or realize that being sloppy is the Thai way of doing things.

And when something si wrong, mai pen rai. Or not?

The landoffice gives more certainty.

[Topprofile]

The landoffice has that information. And yes if an agent's lips are moving then ....

I always give the check to the buyer after the title is transferred. No risk is better then a small risk.

Yawn yawn, the OP hasnt mentioned an agent, he stated developer or current owner, move on please KJ, the land office will not have that information, the current owner will need to obtain from JP office.

Triple yawn, as that is incorrect again, seems to be the norm, are you an agent by change?. Sure the JP office should know, but not always the case.

Landoffice is the only place that knows what is currently registered. It is on the moment you are transferring the condo in your name that the percentages are checked. With a building that is still under construction the risks is that the balance between foreign and Thai can change with sales. So what they do is first say there is still room (even when it is close to 49%), collect your down payment. The more professional (reputable) ones will make it a guarantee as they will do their work mostly correct, but still the only penalty for them is that you get your money back, not the intention when you buy. With 'dodgy' developers, anything goes.

Agents, developer, broker, lawyer etc are mostly interested in one thing only and that is make money. Nothing wrong with that, only the little 'white' lies to make everything more smooth (for them) is what you should be aware of.

And in Thailand they get away with it. What is acceptable here would never be accepted in a western country.

Where do you live? In some wonderfull world where nobody twists the truth a little in their advantage?

And guess what, those little 'white' lies are never in your favor.

Check, double check, triple check, then continue. The OP is not buying a pair of 199 baht shoes!

As a foreigner you can't transfer the condo to your name unless the seller proves that there is enough quota in the building. The seller has to get a debt free letter och information about the foreign/thai ownership quota from the juristic person in the building. Without these, there will be no sale or transfer.

The landoffice does NOT have this information. Period.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Topprofile

[Khun Jean]

The landoffice has that information. And yes if an agent's lips are moving then ....

I always give the check to the buyer after the title is transferred. No risk is better then a small risk.

Yawn yawn, the OP hasnt mentioned an agent, he stated developer or current owner, move on please KJ, the land office will not have that information, the current owner will need to obtain from JP office.

Triple yawn, as that is incorrect again, seems to be the norm, are you an agent by change?. Sure the JP office should know, but not always the case.

Landoffice is the only place that knows what is currently registered. It is on the moment you are transferring the condo in your name that the percentages are checked. With a building that is still under construction the risks is that the balance between foreign and Thai can change with sales. So what they do is first say there is still room (even when it is close to 49%), collect your down payment. The more professional (reputable) ones will make it a guarantee as they will do their work mostly correct, but still the only penalty for them is that you get your money back, not the intention when you buy. With 'dodgy' developers, anything goes.

Agents, developer, broker, lawyer etc are mostly interested in one thing only and that is make money. Nothing wrong with that, only the little 'white' lies to make everything more smooth (for them) is what you should be aware of.

And in Thailand they get away with it. What is acceptable here would never be accepted in a western country.

Where do you live? In some wonderfull world where nobody twists the truth a little in their advantage?

And guess what, those little 'white' lies are never in your favor.

Check, double check, triple check, then continue. The OP is not buying a pair of 199 baht shoes!

As a foreigner you can't transfer the condo to your name unless the seller proves that there is enough quota in the building. The seller has to get a debt free letter och information about the foreign/thai ownership quota from the juristic person in the building. Without these, there will be no sale or transfer.

The landoffice does NOT have this information. Period.

You can end your remark with a period but that does not make it a true statement.

Fact remains that the landoffice is the ONLY one that has the official up to date information about the foreign quota of a building.

A JP SHOULD have that information but are most of the time not able to produce an up to date percentage.

Two thing you can do. Ask the JP and find out on the day of transfer that JP was incorrect, or ask the landoffice and get it in writing, then make the decision to buy and then transfer.

I share this information because i know what happened to me when buying several condo's and it was also confirmed by CBRE.

Period!

[Gary A]

I know very little about it but I do know what was needed when we went to the land office. The seller had to have a letter of confirmation from the condo association that the unit was within the farang quota. I had to have a letter from my bank stating where the money had come from. In this case, I needed two checks. One to the bank to clear the existing mortgage and another to the seller for his equity in the unit. I think there is very little risk involved because if anything is improper the land office will not complete the transfer of the chanote. When the transfer is complete they hand you the chanote in your name and you hand over the checks.