How Much It Would Cost To Make A Driving Range ?

[JohanBKK]

Hello,

I'm very bored and my dream when i was young was to have my own driving range, i know i wont make any money with that, it doesn't matter.

I'm in Hua Hin area, how much it would cost to rent the land, make it legal, etc ? Any idea ? For balls, golf clubs, etc i can handle. Also, are the safety net mandatory ? Seems huge and expensive.

Also, even if i don't go for money but more for a full sized hobby what is the ROI that i can expect ?

Best regards,

Johan.

[Naam]

i guess the biggest problem will be the weapon permits.

[damo]

Just go to a driving range until your sick of it.

[koolbreez]

Do some research, and not just watching the movie "Tin Cup"...lolol. Land rental, and equipment purchase won't be your biggest problem to realize any kind of ROI, it will be trying to break into the very cliquish golf practise crowd.

It doesn't sound like you have any golf pro standing that using your name could contribute to profit from its use, so lessons, and prestiege from practicing their are out unless you hire a recognized pro, at considerable cost. You don't seem to network with golfers just from the questions you're asking, and that also imply trying to cut corners on requirements.

You can be criminally liable in Thailand if someone gets hurt from an eradic golf ball. The nets also stop intentional out of course drives to see what golfers can hit on a bet, at your liability. Kind of like golfers that intentionally shoot for the windows of the houses next to fareways.

With the implied underfunding, no pro golf standing to attract golfers, and your name not associated with the golf crowd at all, you can expect to loose all your money with no return on your investment in the first year.

[rijb]

The question is not how much it costs. The question is how much can you make.

Unless you're talking about a private range. Then, never mind.

Edited October 15, 2012 by rijb

[JohanBKK]

Well, it's kind of private yes. I don't need to make money but it will be fun to try it. I want my own driving range because all of the others are just crap out there. I have my own requierements like real grass and prov1 balls on the range. I don't like plastic grass and those horrible yellow one piece balls. Also, i want a bunker to practice long shots. And this will be a good excuse to buy all the good drivers out there hehe.

Yes i don't have a "pro golfer" to supervise the range, in fact, who cares ? If a pro want to join he can join, my standards are so high that everyone will want to give it a try anyway. Also my wife she's bored too and she want to open a restaurant, i know we are gonna loose money, this is more of a hobby than a business. Only a crazy man would want to open this kind of business to make money. But still, if it's really too expensive i will wait a little more to make this.

Are we talking about 1 million or 5 millions ? It's only land with grass and a net arround it, can't be too expensive.

[topt]

Well, it's kind of private yes. I don't need to make money but it will be fun to try it. I want my own driving range because all of the others are just crap out there. I have my own requierements like real grass and prov1 balls on the range. I don't like plastic grass and those horrible yellow one piece balls. Also, i want a bunker to practice long shots. And this will be a good excuse to buy all the good drivers out there hehe.

Yes i don't have a "pro golfer" to supervise the range, in fact, who cares ? If a pro want to join he can join, my standards are so high that everyone will want to give it a try anyway. Also my wife she's bored too and she want to open a restaurant, i know we are gonna loose money, this is more of a hobby than a business. Only a crazy man would want to open this kind of business to make money. But still, if it's really too expensive i will wait a little more to make this.

Are we talking about 1 million or 5 millions ? It's only land with grass and a net arround it, can't be too expensive.

All depends on how big you want to make the range. If you are really talking using ProV1s off grass then I guess a cricket net size aint gonna do! You would be looking at 300 yards/280 meters depth (if you really want to see how far your drives carry) by whatever width. So a sizeable piece of land and then think how many steel supports embedded in concrete for the nets and the amount of netting etc etc.

With your "high standards" you would probably want fairway grass all over it as well so some sort of sprinkler system........

Then think who is going to build all of this........

[koolbreez]

What you fail to realise in sluffing off the fact no pro, or golf name will be associated is how image concious Thais are in trying to build a customer base. Local foreigners are more likely to warm up/practice at the course they play at before they go out for their round, and are not in Thailand to improve their game. They aren't here, and didn't come here exclusively for the golf. You need a Thai base of customers, and they won't show up without some status, and prestiege, no matter how good the facilities are.

As a foreigner this whole investment will be cash, with no loans. You have no clue what is involved to open the doors. It is not just renting some land, buying some equipment, planting some grass, and you're in business. This is a very visible business so you will have to build a building, zoning changes to contend with, security, business incorporation fees, licensing, insurance, legal fees, accounting fees, maintainance costs, sourcing, advertising, bribes (as a new competitor to someone already in business there will be expensive bribes to get licensed). This isn't a business you can hide behind some door, it is extremely visible so has to be completely legal.

Think in the range of $400,000US -$700,000US just to open the doors for just yourself for the first year, and that could easily go over $1,000,000US in initial costs to be able to cater to customers. You're not taking an established business, and building from there, you're starting from bare ground, and that can be expensive, no matter what country you're in.

Edited October 16, 2012 by koolbreez

[JohanBKK]

I think your numbers are wrong.

Max rent for land 50K-75K/month + 3 month deposit

Nets + Steel arround 500-600K

Restaurant : arround 300-400K

Balls (i can get real prov1 for 50-60baht a piece) 500 pieces of those for premium customers and me

Balls low cost i can buy 5-10 baht balls for cheap customers

Terraforming land + grass = 200-300K (leveling the land is not very expensive if there is no rocks, for the grass i can order seeds and use irrigation to grow it).

Irrigation system : 200K

Chairs + tables + other things = 150-200K

Golf car = (i don't know the exact price but can't be too expensive).

I would add extra 300K for other things i didn't think about and that's it. I don't need any advertising, i don't really care if nobody comes to my driving range but it will be nice if they decide to come, to talk, play, eat, etc.

It's barely 2 millions, far less than the price of my own home, i think it's pretty cheap and it will be a nice hobby, meeting new people, playing golf, getting involded in the community, free golf for kids, etc...

You said i had no experience, well, my dad has a driving range in France, i worked there for a summer when i was 12, it was pretty easy to take care of and he did make money with that. Not much, but enough. He also have a small percentage of the golf course (10%), that's not much but good enough.

I have my own company in other fields, i don't do this for money but i know how to run a business, so that's wont be a problem. Please, tell me where the 1 million USD (30M baht) are going to be spent ? Because that's a huge number for grass and golf balls. I don't even have 1 million USD in the bank...

[topt]

Can I order some real ProV1s from you at that price - new and unused?

[JohanBKK]

Used 1 time only, and i don't sell them sorry. Practice balls from pro tournaments, only 1 shot and some of them 0 shots so totally new.

Pros always practice with new prov1 balls, then after that the balls are sold for very cheap.

[koolbreez]

You are planning on developing raw land that you have no idea how it is zoned. Getting the right zoning to even break ground will be expensive as most raw land will be zones agricultural, and not commercial (this, and licensing will be the biggest cost). Then you will have resistance from the golf establishments already in business, this will raise the cost of getting zoned correctly, and your attorney fees (you can't do it yourself). Then you have licenses to get sorted out, and your long term lease.

The rental amount you are figuring is real low for that much land in that area zoned for commercial use. You are developing a long term investment, not some 3 month deposit rental agreement, and pay by the month. The lease will most likely be paid as a lump sum yearly on a 3+3 contract if you get lucky to start (ideally you want a 10+10 year lease), then a monthly rate on top of it is usual based off revenue (the local police/mafia get this money). The restaurant rent alone can run 40k+ a month if you plan on serving alcohol.

The land owner will not pay any of the zoning change cost, it is all on you. Out of pocket to get all this zoning, licensing, and lease terms done should be no more than $150,000US, depending how many other golf course driving ranges are in the area, and fight the zoning change(calibre of their range/course has no consideration in this, only your business threat to them, and their connections).

The equipment costs you figure are quite low. The netting alone will run about bt2.5millon with yearly maintaince of about bt40k+. Wind, and salt air does damage to netting real fast, and has to be fixed immediately (ladders don't work for this). Low cost netting is a waste of money as you'll find out. With the length of poling, and support needed, more in the range of $100,000US is more reasonable to get this set up. The machine to pick up the golf balls should be no more than $15,000 new, and I doubt you'll find one used in-country.

If you plan on building your buildings with all bamboo, single story, and thatched roofs then you might get buy that cheap, but to have any form of inventory/furnishings security you'll need a study metal, concrete, or wooden structure multi story high (you will get robbed), then open air won't cut it for the calibre you seem to be aiming for. Air conditioning costs can get expensive to keep a building cool, even a small building. At least triple the cost you have figured for just the buildings. In the range of another $110,000 for the furnished buildings, and security system is more realistic.

If you plan on watering your commercial grass you'll have to get water contracts at the very least, and maybe even have to build a water tower, not just depending on city residential water pressure availibility for the grass maintainance (kind of makes you wonder why everyone else has fake astroturf grass). You will be classed as being a commercial business with high water needs. Depending on how rural the land is there might not even be fresh water availibility unless you build it, or the connection to the city system, and this is highly likely even close in. More thousands of dollars in setup costs. A sewer system will not exist, and will have to be built to be legal.

As a new commercial business you will need insurance of all kinds, more expenses as most policies are paid on a yearly basis.

Being how highly visible your commercial business will be, it all has to be completely legal, and it is not going to be cheap getting it all set up. I've touched on just some of the more blatant costs associated in getting set up so you can drive your first ball, and maybe have a place to eat, and poop. There will be more as you go through the paperwork trail. Nothing will be grandfathered in under old laws. After you're all set up it can be cheaper to maintain yearly, but your initial setup costs are way off, and lots of things haven't even been considered by you.

[JaiLai]

Used 1 time only, and i don't sell them sorry. Practice balls from pro tournaments, only 1 shot and some of them 0 shots so totally new.

Pros always practice with new prov1 balls, then after that the balls are sold for very cheap.

Sold where?pls advise.