German And Thai Girlfriend Killed In Pattaya Road Crash

[bulmercke]

From the pictures they must have been traveling at some speed. Passed this spot twice last Friday. A shocking accident. More senseless loss of young lives.

[vijer]

Have you noticed that it is always the MINI VANS that are the cause of road accidents!? How many passengers have died from MINI VANS accidents? The driver said his vehicle was parked when the accident occurs, I don't believe him for one moment! This scum bag must have reversed into the motorcyclist!

Are you for real?? Reversed??

Look at the damage in the photos, and two people killed. How fast do you think the driver was reversing??

RIP young couple

I think that Masaomi's comment was what is known as sarcasm, but you never know, his theory is not beyond the realms of possibility.

And if it was correct, the impact speed would have been a combination of both vehicles, not just the van's. Eg., if the van was reversing at, say, 5kph and if the bike was doing 40kph, that's a 45kph impact.

Actually, no, that theory has been scientifically proven wrong, in crash test studies.

The German just didn't see the van and slammed into the back corner.

Plus if the van was reversing the reverse lights would have been on and he would have been easier to see. The van appears to be relatively new so I doubt the lights are burnt out like on so many vehicles in The Land of Miracles!

Edited October 18, 2012 by vijer

[Tchooptip]

I say he was drunk because stone cold sober people do not run into the backs of very large parked vehicles at high speed at that time in the morning !

I also didn't say he was drunk but stated that I see it all the time here on Samui.

I am also writing about a German that has killed a young Thai lady due to his actions and not hers !

My condolences go to the Thai family !

I totally agree with you ThailandBert, too many (young man most of the time) are driving like mad, sometimes in little crowded streets slaloming between pedestrians. On Samui roads I am simply afraid by the way many young farangs are driving their rented motor bike And true, you are right also saying he killed this unfortunate Thai girl, some accidents are unavoidable , but as far as I know he was not run into by a standstill car, when no visibility one slow down that's all.

[Tchooptip]

Have you noticed that it is always the MINI VANS that are the cause of road accidents!? How many passengers have died from MINI VANS accidents? The driver said his vehicle was parked when the accident occurs, I don't believe him for one moment! This scum bag must have reversed into the motorcyclist!

Are you for real?? Reversed??

Look at the damage in the photos, and two people killed. How fast do you think the driver was reversing??

RIP young couple

O course he is for real! don't you believe what you'r told : It is "always" the MINI VANS that are the cause of road accidents! Is it not clear enough? Plus are you stubborn, one cannot believe what the minivan driver said, since he is a scum bag, so please stick to the story!

[neilmckean]

*Berkshire*

I gather from you rather biased response that you have never been to Thailand. If you had then you would see how they drive over here, with no respect or care for any other driver.

If you have been to Thailand then everyone and I can only come to one conclusion, you are delusional. To presume that the only possible scenario is that this poor German guy could have been driving with his eyes closed and hit a parked mini van. Let me give you another scenario.

German guy driving along 2 nd road, mini van in front but to the left of him. Mini van driver decides to pull over to far right and as most drivers do here, not look in his mirror or care for anyone behind them. German guy then tries to brake but mini van is now far to close so he hits it. Resulting in the unfortunate death of two young people.

Mini van driver makes up story about being parked the whole time. Police see this as a blatant fabrication of the truth and arrest him.

For the definition of delusional go look in the mirror, also while looking you may find small minded individual looking back.

[chrisinth]

Have you noticed that it is always the MINI VANS that are the cause of road accidents!? How many passengers have died from MINI VANS accidents? The driver said his vehicle was parked when the accident occurs, I don't believe him for one moment! This scum bag must have reversed into the motorcyclist!

Are you for real?? Reversed??

Look at the damage in the photos, and two people killed. How fast do you think the driver was reversing??

RIP young couple

I think that Masaomi's comment was what is known as sarcasm, but you never know, his theory is not beyond the realms of possibility.

And if it was correct, the impact speed would have been a combination of both vehicles, not just the van's. Eg., if the van was reversing at, say, 5kph and if the bike was doing 40kph, that's a 45kph impact.

Actually, no, that theory has been scientifically proven wrong, in crash test studies.

The German just didn't see the van and slammed into the back corner.

Plus if the van was reversing the reverse lights would have been on and he would have been easier to see. The van appears to be relatively new so I doubt the lights are burnt out like on so many vehicles in The Land of Miracles!

I'm sorry, I was following your thread nicely up to "Actually, no" and then it went a bit fuzzy.

If you have 5kph of reverse momentum and 45kph forward momentum, then what would be the impact speed?

[johnnycthedog]

Witnesses say the motorbike was being driven at high speed. Easy to do when there's not much traffic around. Open the throttle and away you go. Only problem is if you are not wearing helmets and you crash your skull opens up like a watermelon. Remember the pictures of the two young Brits that were killed in Second Street a few years ago - the policeman was scooping the brains off one of the Heinekin signs. That was about the same time of the morning too. No helmets = no chance. RIP to both very sad. Just having a good time and now gone forever.

[TheWalkingMan]

I see some of the posts saying "poor Thai girl" or blaming the German for the girl's death... When anyone hops on to the back of a motorcycle being driven by a drunk person (if the guy was drunk), they have made a choice to roll the dice. My suspicion is that it was not the first time they have sped down Second Road early in the morning. We all make choices when we go out. Some will get drunk and drive home, some will ride with their drunken friends, some decide to rely on the baht bus/motorcycle taxi and some leave their mode of transport somewhere and pick it up the next day.

[Basil B]

Very sad news RIP.

The fact he was German is imaterial...

Whether he was drunk, speeding or waring a crash helmet seems to be a point of speculation, but one thing I know there are just to many idiots who do just that and unfortunately they tend not just to take their own lives but lives of others as well.

[rbrooks]

One thing I have learned when I was in Thailand. Never rent or operate a vehicle in Thailand unless it is an emergency. When I did drive I always expecting the unexpected like, chickens, dogs, elephants, kids running out in the road at anytime, illegal parked cars, sudden stops in front, crater holes on the road, and of course wear the useless helmet in case there is an unfortunate accident. There really is no reason to drive unless you live in Thailand. Public transportation is cheap and usually reliable and reasonably safe. Just my thoughts and observations I could be wrong.

[vijer]

I'm sorry, I was following your thread nicely up to "Actually, no" and then it went a bit fuzzy.

If you have 5kph of reverse momentum and 45kph forward momentum, then what would be the impact speed?

45 kph, if you want to educate yourself here is a link on collision math. http://warp.povusers.org/grrr/collisionmath.html

[GFY]

One thing I have learned when I was in Thailand. Never rent or operate a vehicle in Thailand unless it is an emergency. When I did drive I always expecting the unexpected like, chickens, dogs, elephants, kids running out in the road at anytime, illegal parked cars, sudden stops in front, crater holes on the road, and of course wear the useless helmet in case there is an unfortunate accident. There really is no reason to drive unless you live in Thailand. Public transportation is cheap and usually reliable and reasonably safe. Just my thoughts and observations I could be wrong.

Was you on LSD?

[gaucho]

dress it up any way u like the injuries and damage r obviously speed related u see it all the time ...excessive speed ...no leather protective gear and flip flops and no head gear ......ten years back several farang ladies started screaming and a couple of them fainted at the kiss resto opposite mikes ....seconds before all in the resto had heard a loud bang ...at least 70 metres up the road towards the mall a accident had occurred ...PARTS OF THE BIKE ON FIRE WITH PARTS OF THE DRIVER SLID PAST his head had somehow landed in the street near tims bar ...it was real texas chainsaw massacre type stuff .....yes he had hit a suddenly stopped vehicle ...but his speed was absolutely frightening ....two nights later was shopping up across from the mall and xxxx me same thing foreigner and girl ran into a legally parked truck with a tray ... horribly parts of them had to be removed by hand from under the truck ....what a stupid unnecessary way to go ...rip

[simple1]

One thing I have learned when I was in Thailand. Never rent or operate a vehicle in Thailand unless it is an emergency. When I did drive I always expecting the unexpected like, chickens, dogs, elephants, kids running out in the road at anytime, illegal parked cars, sudden stops in front, crater holes on the road, and of course wear the useless helmet in case there is an unfortunate accident. There really is no reason to drive unless you live in Thailand. Public transportation is cheap and usually reliable and reasonably safe. Just my thoughts and observations I could be wrong.

Was you on LSD?

Rbrooks post is correct. People arriving from Western countries are not familiar with Thai traffic conditions/driving style and the sometimes poorly maintained roads. Even in Pattaya when their is a rut/hole in the road someone will just put a plastic bucket or insert a tree branch to warn drivers in the actual hole, not before - if they can be bothered. Add to this the ridiculous driving test standards for issuing a license it's a recipe for disaster. Nearly every day I see the aftermath of an accident; new white marker outlines on the roads.

I drive a car in & around Pattaya & it's an absolute must that at all times to use "defensive driving" techniques. Of course this cannot stop people rear ending your vehicle due to tailgating - this has happened to me twice by motorbike drivers in the past six months.

Edited October 19, 2012 by simple1

[meatballs]

The way that accident occurred has drunk driving spelled all over it..

[Anon999]

By the marks on the back of the van looks like the speed difference was quite high. I'll put my bet on drunk&flat out.

The photo's beg a number of questions. If the bike was travelling at speed how come the two people on the bike were not thrown off? Over the handlebars with the passenger up and over the back of the rider? They are shown to still be on the machine as though they had hit the corner and/or had been hit by the corner of the minibus then fallen sideways at the point of collision. It is possible they were approaching the minivan in the blind spot of the rear view door mirror so the driver didn't look or see them behind. Consequently if they were not able to take avoiding action due to passing vehicles then that would make sense, being in the wrong place at wrong time.

What I like so much about TV is the way all the clever posters place the blame on drunk driving when none of you know anything about the circumstances. Quick off the mark with unsubstantiated claims and nothing to back them up with. You could always wait until there is some factual evidence available but I won't hold my breath!

Edited October 19, 2012 by Anon999

[Jayman]

By the marks on the back of the van looks like the speed difference was quite high. I'll put my bet on drunk&flat out.

The photo's beg a number of questions. If the bike was travelling at speed how come the two people on the bike were not thrown off? Over the handlebars with the passenger up and over the back of the rider? They are shown to still be on the machine as though they had hit the corner and/or had been hit by the corner of the minibus then fallen sideways at the point of collision. It is possible they were approaching the minivan in the blind spot of the rear view door mirror so the driver didn't look or see them behind. Consequently if they were not able to take avoiding action due to passing vehicles then that would make sense, being in the wrong place at wrong time.

What I like so much about TV is the way all the clever posters place the blame on drunk driving when none of you know anything about the circumstances. Quick off the mark with unsubstantiated claims and nothing to back them up with. You could always wait until there is some factual evidence available but I won't hold my breath!

You are talking far too much sense. You must be new here.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Jayman

[I Like Thai]

By the marks on the back of the van looks like the speed difference was quite high. I'll put my bet on drunk&flat out.

The photo's beg a number of questions. If the bike was travelling at speed how come the two people on the bike were not thrown off? Over the handlebars with the passenger up and over the back of the rider? They are shown to still be on the machine as though they had hit the corner and/or had been hit by the corner of the minibus then fallen sideways at the point of collision.

They probably hit the back of the van judging by the large impact mark on it. They were prevented from being thrown off by the back of the van and the bike holding the victims pinned for a second or two. That is then why the victims and the bike are together just at the back of the van.

It is possible they were approaching the minivan in the blind spot of the rear view door mirror so the driver didn't look or see them behind. Consequently if they were not able to take avoiding action due to passing vehicles then that would make sense, being in the wrong place at wrong time.

From the photos it looks like they were taken at the collision site and nothing has been moved. The van appears to be parked in the hard shoulder of the road on the far right of the road. There doesn't seem to be any justification for the bike driver to have been in that lane.. There also appears to be a long stretch of road, where the bike driver would have had a good unhindered view.

What I like so much about TV is the way all the clever posters place the blame on drunk driving when none of you know anything about the circumstances. Quick off the mark with unsubstantiated claims and nothing to back them up with. You could always wait until there is some factual evidence available but I won't hold my breath!

[Jayman]

Well.. all of us that live in Pattaya know that the far right lane at that part of 2nd road is for oncoming traffic. That is not a one way stretch of 2nd road. If the van was parking there it should ahve been doing so on the left side not the right.

So that the mini van's claims to be parked in lane designated for oncoming traffic should not be overlooked when blame is being handed out.

[SantiSuk]

Out of morbid curiosity I sometimes open these threads about road deaths and murders and find them always full of analysis about how the event might have happened.

I usually whistle a quick therefore but the grace of god go i and pass on. Can't say I have ever felt the urge to be an amateur sleuth. I'm beginning to think maybe I'm the weird one. Sorry people - not trying to be superior - just find it odd I'm not with the crowd here, rather like I don't have a penchant for girl-on-girl action

[Basil B]

Well.. all of us that live in Pattaya know that the far right lane at that part of 2nd road is for oncoming traffic. That is not a one way stretch of 2nd road. If the van was parking there it should ahve been doing so on the left side not the right.

So that the mini van's claims to be parked in lane designated for oncoming traffic should not be overlooked when blame is being handed out.

Yes the Mini Van seems to be parked illegally, but the bike could have just as easily collided with a legit vehicle traveling the other way.

Quite clearly the bike should never have crossed the solid white line (intermittent on the outside), my guess is he tried overtaking at high speed.

Yes ticket the mini van for illegal parking but no way should he be blamed in anyway for the accident.

[ttelise]

I'm sorry, I was following your thread nicely up to "Actually, no" and then it went a bit fuzzy.

If you have 5kph of reverse momentum and 45kph forward momentum, then what would be the impact speed?

45 kph, if you want to educate yourself here is a link on collision math. http://warp.povusers.org/grrr/collisionmath.html

Theoretical versus practical. You also ignore that his anaylsus assume vehicles striking each other are precisely same weight and/or mass traveling at exactly the same speed. Cannot apply that here. I have used many accident reconstructionists in very high exposure cases over the years representing trucking and roadway construction companies accused of negligence (i.e., resources to retain best experts in US). I have yet to see exact same speed and exact same weight/mass, much less a linear impact.

Edited October 23, 2012 by ttelise

[Jayman]

Well.. all of us that live in Pattaya know that the far right lane at that part of 2nd road is for oncoming traffic. That is not a one way stretch of 2nd road. If the van was parking there it should ahve been doing so on the left side not the right.

So that the mini van's claims to be parked in lane designated for oncoming traffic should not be overlooked when blame is being handed out.

Yes the Mini Van seems to be parked illegally, but the bike could have just as easily collided with a legit vehicle traveling the other way.

Quite clearly the bike should never have crossed the solid white line (intermittent on the outside), my guess is he tried overtaking at high speed.

Yes ticket the mini van for illegal parking but no way should he be blamed in anyway for the accident.

What white line are you talking about and how do you know it was crossed? Are you talking about the solid line that is on the right of the 3rd lane of northbound traffic that separates it from the single southbound lane? It appears that the bike hit the rear left of the van. How does that play with your theory that the bike was trying to overtake on the right? I'll admit I don't quite understand what you are saying so I might have it all wrong.

[Gone]

1) It looks like the girl may be dressed in her University Outfit so maybe her Boyfriend was simply driving her to school at 6:30am. Everyone who is assuming that it was a late-night partying drunk accident is doing just that.....assuming

2) Again many are assuming that he couldn't avoid the illegally parked van however if you have ever rode a motorbike in Thailand you can also attest to the fact that many times people just simply get cut off and have nowhere else to go so weather the van was parked legally or not is not the point.

I do agree that many times you see people riding way to fast and also drunk late night/early morning with their Thai gf's etc and that is wrong of course however in this case there is not enough of the story to all be speculating what happened,

It could be as simple as I said where a guy was driving his gf to school and got cut off and unfortunately smashed into a parked vanor t could be the opposite as stated here which would not be good.

Anyways my condolences to both families.

[Phatcharanan]

Theoretical versus practical. You also ignore that his anaylsus assume vehicles striking each other are precisely same weight and/or mass traveling at exactly the same speed. Cannot apply that here. I have used many accident reconstructionists in very high exposure cases over the years representing trucking and roadway construction companies accused of negligence (i.e., resources to retain best experts in US). I have yet to see exact same speed and exact same weight/mass, much less a linear impact.

Yawn.

[oops]

Another senseless accident.

Regardless if the mini van was parked illegally there is only one person at fault here.

It wasn't parked illegally...it was ( Parked-up ) I guess this means it was really parked...or may the fact that the motorbike came right up her back side....yes that's what they mean. So if you get rammed in the arse that means you been Parked - up ....F Up ....just parked - up.

[wcoast]

Whatever it was, he was driving outside his abilities and 2 lives were needlessly lost.

[harrry]

Motorcycles should drive in the left lane.

[Sayonarax]

Wow some of you guys/girls on here are real haters, you all sound biter and twisted. Too much time spent in the The Land of Lost Smiles I think.

Have you looked at the picture of where the Van is supposedly parked?

It's parked on the right of a 3 lane road which is illegal as its a no parking zone, the driver probably just decided to stop there at the last minute. Hence why he has just made up the parked here story and now been arrested. If this would of been just another dead Farange and not a poor thai girl involved then the van drivers story would of held up. Lets hope her Parents have some money to get this case fully investigated.

Lets hope the Thai government in its infinite wisdom bring out real driving lessons for there always right indigenous people.

Oh an driving drunk, with no helmet and passenger is any better?

Edited October 29, 2012 by Rimmer
Unnecessary

[Jayman]

Motorcycles should drive in the left lane.

you mean behind all the constantly stopping baht buses. Yeah have fun with that.