Thai Democrats Ordered Use Of Snipers: Korkaew

[rubl]

Well you obviously don't know what happened in 2010 - just because somebody rejects a nonsense offer doesn't signal the use of force. You go back to the negotiating table and find a better offer, not send in the storm troops

The rejection of the offer didn't signal the use of force. The storming of government house and Thaicom signalled that the protests needed to be dispersed. The dispersal went haywire when the colonel was blown up by a grenade.

Quite possibly rolled onto him by one of his own men or another attending unit............

Of course both the HRW report from last year and the TRCT report from this year have been denounced by 'all' who know better.

2011-05-02

"Armed elements supporting the UDD also staged deadly attacks on police officers and soldiers. On April 10, the army attempted to move in on the UDD camp at Phan Fa Bridge and were confronted by well-armed and organized groups of Black Shirts militants affiliated with the UDD, who fired M16 and AK-47 assault rifles at soldiers and used M79 grenade launchers and M67 hand grenades. Among the first to be killed was a Thai commander, Col. Romklao Thuwatham, apparently in a targeted grenade attack."

http://www.hrw.org/f...itical-violence

[MAJIC]

That's great a bunch of armchair critics calling me an armchair critic - as for the redshirts they are not a bunch of terrorists, those people are hard working salt of the earth and the government tries to treat them like rubbish. The majority were there to hold peaceful demonstrations and the government refused to talk and sent in storm troopers instead, it's no wonder violence erupted. The army's decision to use live ammunition instead of rubber bullets and water cannon was a clear invitation for the redshirts to do likewise.

Once again, do you even remotely know what happened during the 2010 protests?

The government allowed the peaceful protests. The government did talk. They offered early elections.

The government sent in the army to disperse the protests the offer had been rejected, AFTER the protesters had threatened to storm the army barracks, AFTER they had stormed government house, and AFTER they had stormed Thaicom using molotov cocktails.

The government used rubber bullets and water cannons at Thaicom. The government didn't use grenades, so I don't know what excuse you want to use for the protesters to use grenades. The red shirts were using grenades long before the army were doing anything.

Well you obviously don't know what happened in 2010 - just because somebody rejects a nonsense offer doesn't signal the use of force. You go back to the negotiating table and find a better offer, not send in the storm troops

The offer to Thaksins Redshirts was: A very early Election,but Thaksins Mob was pushing for complete Capitulation,and that's where his judgment was sorely lacking (as usual),in the event he/they pushed too far,and got their Election much later than they could have had, because they wanted to win on Thaksins Redshirts terms only. So what in your opinion was the nonsense offer?

[rixalex]

If he was shot by someone from the red side, it wouldn't matter what he was waving, as he was simply being used as a sacrificial lamb to increase tension and pressure on the government. I don't know that he was shot by the red side, but i don't know that he wasn't. And nor do you. So what is your point?

are you listening to yourself? your implying they were killing themselves to make a point

What on earth is funny about that?

You don't think the leaders of the reds knew that the more fatalities there were on their own side and the more blood that was spilt on their own side, the more pressure the government would be under, both domestically and internationally? Or you think they did know but weren't capable of doing such a horrendous thing?

[sysardman]

If he was shot by someone from the red side, it wouldn't matter what he was waving, as he was simply being used as a sacrificial lamb to increase tension and pressure on the government. I don't know that he was shot by the red side, but i don't know that he wasn't. And nor do you. So what is your point?

are you listening to yourself? your implying they were killing themselves to make a point

What on earth is funny about that?

You don't think the leaders of the reds knew that the more fatalities there were on their own side and the more blood that was spilt on their own side, the more pressure the government would be under, both domestically and internationally? Or you think they did know but weren't capable of doing such a horrendous thing?

Do I hear the X-files tune somewhere

[dickyknee]

If he was shot by someone from the red side, it wouldn't matter what he was waving, as he was simply being used as a sacrificial lamb to increase tension and pressure on the government. I don't know that he was shot by the red side, but i don't know that he wasn't. And nor do you. So what is your point?

are you listening to yourself? your implying they were killing themselves to make a point

What on earth is funny about that?

You don't think the leaders of the reds knew that the more fatalities there were on their own side and the more blood that was spilt on their own side, the more pressure the government would be under, both domestically and internationally? Or you think they did know but weren't capable of doing such a horrendous thing?

Do I hear the X-files tune somewhere

aliens did it?

[OzMick]

Well you obviously don't know what happened in 2010 - just because somebody rejects a nonsense offer doesn't signal the use of force. You go back to the negotiating table and find a better offer, not send in the storm troops

The rejection of the offer didn't signal the use of force. The storming of government house and Thaicom signalled that the protests needed to be dispersed. The dispersal went haywire when the colonel was blown up by a grenade.

Quite possibly rolled onto him by one of his own men or another attending unit............

Will you please stop this mis-information. The death and injuries were caused by M-79 grenades which are fired from a launcher. They are not hand grenades, and cannot be armed by rolling across the ground. And yes, they can be definite because the 2 types of grenades use completely different shrapnel.

More to the point, because M-79s launchers were found being made in BKK before the events of 2010, the RTA stated expressly that they would not be using them. If there was one photo of the RTA in possession of an M-79 launcher, it would be a huge propaganda coup for the reds - none have shown up so far.

[smedly]

you know what's funny about this report - Korkaew stated that the police refused to act on the order because it wasn't in writting - well if it's not in writting it is simply hearsay so what was the point of even bringing it up as it's not admissable evidence and I'd say ammounts to slander more than anything else.

[metisdead]

A post containing quoted content from Bangkok Post has been removed as per forum rule 31:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

[sysardman]

Well you obviously don't know what happened in 2010 - just because somebody rejects a nonsense offer doesn't signal the use of force. You go back to the negotiating table and find a better offer, not send in the storm troops

The rejection of the offer didn't signal the use of force. The storming of government house and Thaicom signalled that the protests needed to be dispersed. The dispersal went haywire when the colonel was blown up by a grenade.

Quite possibly rolled onto him by one of his own men or another attending unit............

Will you please stop this mis-information. The death and injuries were caused by M-79 grenades which are fired from a launcher. They are not hand grenades, and cannot be armed by rolling across the ground. And yes, they can be definite because the 2 types of grenades use completely different shrapnel.

More to the point, because M-79s launchers were found being made in BKK before the events of 2010, the RTA stated expressly that they would not be using them. If there was one photo of the RTA in possession of an M-79 launcher, it would be a huge propaganda coup for the reds - none have shown up so far.

Will you please stop this mis-information:

It is in the TRC report that the Colonel was killed by a M-67 hand grenade.

All happy now??????

[Skywalker69]

As the government were illegally in power

You must be really desperate that you need to resort to such nonsense comments.

And you obviously don't know what a coup is? a clue is it isn't democracy. I bet the shoe would be on the other foot if your own native country was taken over by a government that wasn't elected - you'd soon be putting your red or yellow shirt on and manning the barricades.

http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2003/12/11/pms-declaration-democracy-not-my-goal-br

[ttelise]

At no point in the demonstrations was I aware that war had been declared - shots may have been fired by both sides but they were done by radical factions and all should face real legal justice.

You seem to be trying to imply equal guilt on both sides. When authorities are engaged in a stand-off with hijackers, and the outcome is death on both sides, it's not usual to treat the deaths of the hijackers by the police in the same manner as the deaths of the police by the hijackers, because one side is there legally armed as part of their job of trying to restore law and minimize injury and death, and the other side is there breaking the law and illegally armed.

Have you seen the Youtube video with the Redshirt flag waver getting the top of his head removed by a sniper - don't tell me a flag is now an offensive weapon.

If he was shot by someone from the red side, it wouldn't matter what he was waving, as he was simply being used as a sacrificial lamb to increase tension and pressure on the government. I don't know that he was shot by the red side, but i don't know that he wasn't. And nor do you. So what is your point?

are you listening to yourself? your implying they were killing themselves to make a point

even if there were a few protesters on the fringe using firecrackers to fight back, it does not make it right for the government to open fire. i also dont remember any violence before the army showed up with TANKS!!! dont forget they brought in the TANKS to clear the protesters. imagine if they did that anywhere in the west....

No doubt. Retarded theory. I am amazed that people could buy into such a theory. Passion and politics blind one to common sense and reality.

[OzMick]

Will you please stop this mis-information:

It is in the TRC report that the Colonel was killed by a M-67 hand grenade.

All happy now??????

You of course have a link, as this goes contrary to reports published at the time and the inquest.

[sysardman]

As the government were illegally in power

You must be really desperate that you need to resort to such nonsense comments.

And you obviously don't know what a coup is? a clue is it isn't democracy. I bet the shoe would be on the other foot if your own native country was taken over by a government that wasn't elected - you'd soon be putting your red or yellow shirt on and manning the barricades.

http://www.asiantrib...-not-my-goal-br

As my name crops up in quotes about Thaksin, please note I am not a Thaksin supporter and do not condone any meddling he does from the sidelines. I'm hoping that Yingluck draws the line with her brother and keeps him well away. Thaksin may or may not have been guilty of the corruption charges but he was guilty of extrajudicial killing of people who to all intents and purposes may not have been linked to the drug trade but were victims of the 'witch hunt'.

[sysardman]

Will you please stop this mis-information:

It is in the TRC report that the Colonel was killed by a M-67 hand grenade.

All happy now??????

You of course have a link, as this goes contrary to reports published at the time and the inquest.

I'm unable to provide the link due to forum policy rules but another fact from the TRC investigation stated that 200,000 live rounds were fired by the army.

[Basil B]

you know what's funny about this report - Korkaew stated that the police refused to act on the order because it wasn't in writting - well if it's not in writting it is simply hearsay so what was the point of even bringing it up as it's not admissable evidence and I'd say ammounts to slander more than anything else.

Agree...

saying a police officer had once told him that the Democrat government had given security officers the green light to deploy snipers for crowd control

Given the spin politicians put on things, could have been "security officers requested to use snippers to take out heavily armed insurgents"

[TomTao]

Will you please stop this mis-information:

It is in the TRC report that the Colonel was killed by a M-67 hand grenade.

All happy now??????

You of course have a link, as this goes contrary to reports published at the time and the inquest.

I'm unable to provide the link due to forum policy rules but another fact from the TRC investigation stated that 200,000 live rounds were fired by the army.

200,000 live rounds fired and how many dead? If the army was trying to kill redshirts they better find some soldiers who can shoot straight. Don't forget some members of the red brigade and the MiB had the same weapons the army had, so who shot who? 200,000 rounds, so few dead. I'm not trying to be flippant, but if the army was trying to kill protesters as is claimed so often by the politicians and the red cheer squad then there should have been hundreds or even thousands of bodies littering the ground once the smoke cleared with the number of rounds that were fired.

Sent from my GT-I9003

Edited October 21, 2012 by TomTao

[Buchholz]

After the dispersal of protesters on May 19, 2010, Korkaew said he was detained at the Border Patrol Police's Naresuan camp in Phetchaburi province.

During detention,

When does Korkaew go back into detention?

Difficult to imagine why failed Pheu Thai Party constituency MP and successful Pheu Thai Party-list MP and indicted Red Shirt Leader currently out on bail Korkaew would be interested in an amnesty absolving Red Shirts of their criminal acts.

Looks like the "Naresuan prison camp in Phetchaburi " he was at was not so rough that he couldn't get black hair dye there.

.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Buchholz

[whybother]

Will you please stop this mis-information:

It is in the TRC report that the Colonel was killed by a M-67 hand grenade.

All happy now??????

You of course have a link, as this goes contrary to reports published at the time and the inquest.

I'm unable to provide the link due to forum policy rules but another fact from the TRC investigation stated that 200,000 live rounds were fired by the army.

What you can do is provide the article's heading from the bangkok post so we can search for the article ourselves.

Sent from my HTC phone.

[Zatoichi]

My only problem with the govt's use of snipers, against the red shirts, is that they did not put enough of them in the field for the amount of terrorists they needed to shoot.

[rubl]

Will you please stop this mis-information:

It is in the TRC report that the Colonel was killed by a M-67 hand grenade.

All happy now??????

You of course have a link, as this goes contrary to reports published at the time and the inquest.

I'm unable to provide the link due to forum policy rules but another fact from the TRC investigation stated that 200,000 live rounds were fired by the army.

The difference between drawn and returned was reported as 117,923 although an article from the other newspaper from the 21st of September 2012 has an unnamed army source mentioning 200,000. Regarding the April 10th deaths, each of the military officers died as a result of injuries from shrapnel, which the TRCT concludes were fired by a M-67 grenade launcher and, in one case, possibly an M-79 grenade launcher.

Now if only one was able to quote correctly, truthfully, etc., etc.

[dickyknee]

now was it a m67 hand grenade:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M67_grenade

or a m67 recoil-less rifle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M67_recoilless_rifle

[sysardman]

Will you please stop this mis-information:

It is in the TRC report that the Colonel was killed by a M-67 hand grenade.

All happy now??????

You of course have a link, as this goes contrary to reports published at the time and the inquest.

I'm unable to provide the link due to forum policy rules but another fact from the TRC investigation stated that 200,000 live rounds were fired by the army.

The difference between drawn and returned was reported as 117,923 although an article from the other newspaper from the 21st of September 2012 has an unnamed army source mentioning 200,000. Regarding the April 10th deaths, each of the military officers died as a result of injuries from shrapnel, which the TRCT concludes were fired by a M-67 grenade launcher and, in one case, possibly an M-79 grenade launcher.

Now if only one was able to quote correctly, truthfully, etc., etc.

It's still a shed load of bullets whether it's 117,923 or 200,000. And if you are quoting correctly an M-67 is a hand grenade and not a launcher. I don't know which side of the fence you're sitting but you must be getting piles by now.

Also the person who said 'well it wasn't many deaths then was it' - 1 death was too many

PS rubl managed to find the report without too much difficulty

Edited October 21, 2012 by sysardman

[rubl]

I'm unable to provide the link due to forum policy rules but another fact from the TRC investigation stated that 200,000 live rounds were fired by the army.

The difference between drawn and returned was reported as 117,923 although an article from the other newspaper from the 21st of September 2012 has an unnamed army source mentioning 200,000. Regarding the April 10th deaths, each of the military officers died as a result of injuries from shrapnel, which the TRCT concludes were fired by a M-67 grenade launcher and, in one case, possibly an M-79 grenade launcher.

Now if only one was able to quote correctly, truthfully, etc., etc.

It's still a shed load of bullets whether it's 117,923 or 200,000. And if you are quoting correctly an M-67 is a hand grenade and not a launcher. I don't know which side of the fence you're sitting but you must be getting piles by now.

Also the person who said 'well it wasn't many deaths then was it' - 1 death was too many or did you want a real blood-bath for Youtube?

Zig, zag, zig.

BTW I forgot to put the proper reference for the quote on M-67 grenade launchers. I took it from the 2012-09-12 Robert A. "TRCT-A-License-to-Kill-Paper-by-Amsterdam-Partners-LLP"

[whybother]

I assume you get spoon fed too?

Of course you're one of these numptys that seems to think we're all impressed because you sent it from your HTC phone

It used to be my shoe phone, but one of the mods objected to that for some reason.

As to the link (or some other reference in relation to the BP), there is a lot of information out there. If you're going to quote some detail it is etiquette, and in some cases forum rules, to provide a link or reference.

Sent from my HTC phone.

To help you out:

According to evidence compiled by the commission, the "men in black" fired M67 hand grenades, M79 rocket-launched grenades and rifles at soldiers at Kok Wua on the night of April 10, 2010. Col Romklao, who was posthumously promoted to general, was killed by one of the M67 hand grenades, it added.

Edited October 21, 2012 by whybother

[metisdead]

Several nonsense posts and replies have been removed.

[saltandpepper]

I would recommend Korkaew to go in France, UK, USA, Germany, Russia, or any other country, and to stage the kind of "peaceful protest" that the reds organized in BKK.

First, it's going to be dispersed in no time. The minute the authorities find out that protesters harbor armed elements, they will bring in the army and will do whatever is needed to end the protest, and bring leaders to justice. Why would it be different in Thailand? I find that the Abhisit government has shown a lot of patience, a lot of restrain, has accepted what the reds (Thaksin) asked for. Only when they were asked ridiculous additional requests it decided to end this illegal occupation, and acts of terrorism

[OzMick]

It's still a shed load of bullets whether it's 117,923 or 200,000. And if you are quoting correctly an M-67 is a hand grenade and not a launcher. I don't know which side of the fence you're sitting but you must be getting piles by now.

Also the person who said 'well it wasn't many deaths then was it' - 1 death was too many

PS rubl managed to find the report without too much difficulty

You hit the nail right on the head. When holding a "peaceful protest" then 1 death is too many. When that death happens to be the commanding officer of the security forces controlling your protest, and the attack was with explosive weapons (note that I defer to your claim until I can find more) used by members of the peaceful protest, then there are going to be repercussions, and quite likely deaths.

Exactly as per the plan of the protest leaders.

BTW M-67 designation refers to 2 different weapons - a bazooka type weapon used extensively in the VN war, and a hand grenade, which also can be launched from a rifle by use of an attachment.

[yourauntbob]

are you listening to yourself? your implying they were killing themselves to make a point

even if there were a few protesters on the fringe using firecrackers to fight back, it does not make it right for the government to open fire. i also dont remember any violence before the army showed up with TANKS!!! dont forget they brought in the TANKS to clear the protesters. imagine if they did that anywhere in the west....

Fire crackers ?

The grenade they launched into the BTS station, you call a firecracker?

Well the army were using the BTS for sniper vantage points so fair game.

Terrorism is "fair game" now, and you only need to reverse the order of events to support the notion. That is to say your timeline is, wait for it... wrong, again.

Soldiers used the BTS tracks on the day of the final crackdown.

Would you tell the family of the woman killled on the Sala Daeng terrorist attack that her death was fair game, justified for events that hadn't happened at the time of her murder?

it seems many here are forgetting the crackdown weeks before near democracy (ironic isnt it) monument. I was refering to the tanks that were brought in there to clear a pieceful protest. I walked through that protest (on my way to Ko San) and saw absoulutely no weapons or "men in black" or anything else that would suggest anything but a peiceful protest. The next day I am seeing videos on youtube of unarmed people being shot in the head. The day after I went back and saw that burger king's front wall looked like swiss cheese, disabled tanks on the street and 10's of protestor coffins surronding the monument.

I have trouble understanding how people can hate Taksin soo much that they are willing to overlook blatent crimes against humanity such as these. For the record, I am not a fan of Taksin, my ideology falls closer with the yellow shirts but they give all capitalist a bad name when they do such things.

[yourauntbob]

If he was shot by someone from the red side, it wouldn't matter what he was waving, as he was simply being used as a sacrificial lamb to increase tension and pressure on the government. I don't know that he was shot by the red side, but i don't know that he wasn't. And nor do you. So what is your point?

are you listening to yourself? your implying they were killing themselves to make a point

What on earth is funny about that?

You don't think the leaders of the reds knew that the more fatalities there were on their own side and the more blood that was spilt on their own side, the more pressure the government would be under, both domestically and internationally? Or you think they did know but weren't capable of doing such a horrendous thing?

I am not nieve enough to believe they would openly slaughter their own people no. Yes public pressure would be on their side but they didnt need it, and your reaching if you think its the case.

[rubl]

it seems many here are forgetting the crackdown weeks before near democracy (ironic isnt it) monument. I was refering to the tanks that were brought in there to clear a pieceful protest. I walked through that protest (on my way to Ko San) and saw absoulutely no weapons or "men in black" or anything else that would suggest anything but a peiceful protest. The next day I am seeing videos on youtube of unarmed people being shot in the head. The day after I went back and saw that burger king's front wall looked like swiss cheese, disabled tanks on the street and 10's of protestor coffins surronding the monument.

I have trouble understanding how people can hate Taksin soo much that they are willing to overlook blatent crimes against humanity such as these. For the record, I am not a fan of Taksin, my ideology falls closer with the yellow shirts but they give all capitalist a bad name when they do such things.

The very fact you saw nothing doesn't mean there was nothing. Also the tanks you say you saw were actually APCs and the very fact they were disabled probably only relates to poor maintenance

The peaceful protest was ordered to clear the roads and obviously that was very undemocratic to ask of them. The coffins were just symbolic, the real dead were moved already, although a few dead were forcefully retaken from hospitals to be able to show them around. But again that's just normal for peaceful protesters.

Oh, BTW apart from all the bullet holes showing the RTA needs sharpshooter practice badly with 1000's of round fired and hardly anyone hit, we also have five RTA killed by grenade scrapnel, courtesy of the same peaceful protesters.