Phuket Hospitals Defend Fractured Pricing

[Lite Beer]

Phuket hospitals defend fractured pricing

Phuket Gazette –

A nurse attends to patients on the Provincial Hospital’s opening day in May last year. The facility received much praise from honorary consuls last month. Photo: Gazette file

PPAO Vice President Chawalit Na Nakorn, who is also on the Provincial Hospital’s board of directors. Photo: Orawin Narabal

SPECIAL REPORT

PHUKET: Top officials at the recently opened Phuket Provincial Hospital this week defended the facility’s practice of charging foreigners greatly inflated rates for treatment compared with those levied for Thai nationals.

The Phuket Gazette spoke to Phuket Provincial Administrative Organization (PPAO) Vice President Chawalit Na Nakorn, who is also on the Provincial Hospital’s board of directors, about the large gap between prices for Thai and foreign patients.

“Our hospital aims to provide efficient health care for people and attempts to cover everyone. This is why we have different kinds of patient payment schemes, such as social security patients, the 30-baht health insurance policy patients, patients who are government employees, self-payment patients and patients with private health insurance,” Mr Chawalit explained.

“Every hospital, even those that are government-owned and operated by the Ministry of Public Health, have different medical treatment rates between Thai and foreign patients. Our rates for foreign patients are partly based on the range of prices as set by the Ministry of Public Health.

“However, our hospital management committee, after considering the issue, decided to adjust the prices for foreigners,” he said.

The “decision” included input from the Thonburi Hospital management group, which provides the medical staff and services. It also used the range of fees that the government-run Vachira Phuket Hospital charges foreigners as a base.

“Foreigners use our services and we do not have the funding to provide the needed treatment at the same prices that we can offer Thais. Most Thais are covered by either the 30-baht national health scheme or by the mandatory social security coverage that must be provided for any persons working, or they are government employees. That is not including Thais who are covered by their own private health insurance.

“For patients under all these categories, the hospital receives some form of reimbursement for providing treatment,” Mr Chawalit said.

Any foreigners who have been issued a social security number, which is mandatory for foreigners working in the Kingdom, are eligible for the same discounted rates offered to Thais claiming medical treatment under the same system, he noted.

Mr Chawalit added that Phuket contributed much of the national income generated by tourism to the central government.

“But when the central government allocates its annual budget, most of it goes to government hospitals,” he said.

“We do not receive a formal budget from central government to operate the hospital, although they do partially support the 30-baht health insurance policy by paying us on average 1,900 to 2,000 baht per person per year. However, that is not enough to cover the actual treatment fees,” he added.

“As we are not funded by the Ministry of Public Health, we receive our funding directly from the PPAO. This is one of the reasons that we have to charge foreign patients more than Thai patients,” he said.

As the PPAO owns the hospital, he added, any profits made by the facility will be used in PPAO projects to the benefit of Phuket taxpayers.

“If any foreign patient wants to know the cost of treatment beforehand, they can check with the staff at the international department before the treatment begins. However, the price will be approximate as it depends on how severe their malady is and what type of the treatment they will receive.

“If any foreign patients need help, or have any questions or think they are being overcharged, the staff at the international department are available to help,” Mr Chawalit said.

STANDARD PRACTICE

A senior officer at the Vachira Phuket Hospital’s international department confirmed to the Gazette that the government facility does charge different rates for Thai and foreign patients.

“The rates for foreign patients are set by the hospital management committee, based on the range of medical treatment costs as set by the Ministry of Public Health and the Medical Council of Thailand,” the officer explained.

“For a doctor’s visit of less than 10 minutes, the cost is 200 baht; between 10 to 30 minutes, 300 baht; and more than 30 minutes costs 500 baht,” she said.

“We do not charge a hospital fee as that is included in the doctor’s appointment fee, and an administrative fee is charged if the patient has private health insurance because hospital staff will have to contact the overseas insurance company.

“We charge for the international calling costs and service. The cost will be between 500 to 1,000 baht.”

A physician evaluation or management fee will not be charged if the patient does not undergo an operation, and the prices of the medicines and treatment for foreign patients, except for operations, are the same rates as for Thai patients.

“Foreigners covered by the social security health care scheme, if they are registered at the hospital, will receive treatment free or at the same cost as Thai nationals,” the officer added.

A reader writes:

I went yesterday to the Phuket Provincial Hospital for a doctors visit that was only five minutes as there was nothing wrong with me.

After that I sat waiting in a special section for 30 minutes while staff made out a bill for 1,100 baht for that five minutes with the doctor. A physician valuation/management fee of 500 baht; a hospital fee costing 200 baht and an administrative fee of a further 400 baht. That is more than I pay at Bangkok Hospital Phuket or at the Phuket International Hospital.

I asked them why it was so expensive, to which I was told they had different prices for foreigners. I left with a bad feeling as I don’t expect to be ripped off by a decent hospital.

If they want to charge fees like that they should at least make us aware of it beforehand.

– Gazette reader

Source: http://www.phuketgaz...cing-19225.html

-- Phuket Gazette 2012-10-21

[Tatsujin]

“For a doctor’s visit of less than 10 minutes, the cost is 200 baht; between 10 to 30 minutes, 300 baht; and more than 30 minutes costs 500 baht,” she said.

Crap . . . they charge far more than that for foreigners, same as most Hospitals . . . because they can and we are rich.

[Jaivin2011]

Wanna do something about it ,all your foreigners and expats alike,......sent emails and updates to all ur friends and families overseas to boycott Phuket and also Thailand, lobby to your governmenst and opposition groups back home to stop aiding Thailand in any trade and also funding policies and make poeple back home to terat thais there, be it workers, tourists or prostitutes, the same way that they treat foreigners in thailand if not worst.

Make sure that the foreign press pick up stories about how Thailand should be labelled as a medical hub and also discourage people from coming here for treatments, promote countries like Singapore, Malaysia or Australia as alternative medical hubs.

And lastly when you see the so called ar..... holes...who defenede these double pricing policies...spit on them in the public along with their imeediate families.

[reg3]

Same

Phuket Bangkok Hospital have 2 prices going by ambulances from Krabi to PBH

[fxe1200]

Just like the rest of Thailand, those folks never read or understand the "Three poisons".

The flagship of Buddhism in Thailand serves as a façade to cover wrongdoing and fraud.

[Phuket Stan]

A reader writes:

I went yesterday to the Phuket Provincial Hospital for a doctors visit that was only five minutes as there was nothing wrong with me.

After that I sat waiting in a special section for 30 minutes while staff made out a bill for 1,100 baht for that five minutes with the doctor. A physician valuation/management fee of 500 baht; a hospital fee costing 200 baht and an administrative fee of a further 400 baht. That is more than I pay at Bangkok Hospital Phuket or at the Phuket International Hospital.

I asked them why it was so expensive, to which I was told they had different prices for foreigners. I left with a bad feeling as I don’t expect to be ripped off by a decent hospital.

If they want to charge fees like that they should at least make us aware of it beforehand.

– Gazette reader

Thanks for that heads up....I was going to give them a try

Re the pricing for locals againts expats you will find most European countries have a similar policy...being a NZr seeking medical help in the UK is much more expensive for me than a UK citizen

[drdoom6996]

Wanna do something about it ,all your foreigners and expats alike,......sent emails and updates to all ur friends and families overseas to boycott Phuket and also Thailand, lobby to your governmenst and opposition groups back home to stop aiding Thailand in any trade and also funding policies and make poeple back home to terat thais there, be it workers, tourists or prostitutes, the same way that they treat foreigners in thailand if not worst.

Make sure that the foreign press pick up stories about how Thailand should be labelled as a medical hub and also discourage people from coming here for treatments, promote countries like Singapore, Malaysia or Australia as alternative medical hubs.

And lastly when you see the so called ar..... holes...who defenede these double pricing policies...spit on them in the public along with their imeediate families.

I just had complete shoulder re-construction surgery at one of the Bangkok group hospitals. The cost was just over 21,000 USD. In America surgery for just the rotator cuff for a friend was just over 65,000 USD. I found the surgeon to be excellent. The hospital facilities to be excellent. And the after surgery to be way above that gotten in the so called "western world". Edited October 21, 2012 by LivinginKata
unnecessary remark removed

[Stjohnm]

Consultation fees are on average quite reasonable, they make their money on inpatient and Pharmacy fees, I saw my neurologist at the BNH Hospital - Sathorn the other week and the bill came to ฿1,700 ฿1,100 of which was for an emergency fill of my epilepsy meds for 72 hours as I didn't bring enough with me from our house upcountry. Our family Dr. in Sisaket charges that much for 3 weeks supply not 3 days.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[sakaew]

Jeez..stand by for self righteous venom.

I detest and abhor Farang Price as much as everyone else.

But I'd have thought the guy from Phuket Hospital made out a perfectly reasonable case for charging farang extra.

The hospital gets nothing from the Thai Governmet or Health Funds et al....if farang are treated.

It is NOT a charity.

Isn't it obvious that they need to recoup costs and make a profit?.

[hgma]

we are 'the walking atm brigade" in here!

and if you are not, your out of here !

[Stjohnm]

A reader writes:

I went yesterday to the Phuket Provincial Hospital for a doctors visit that was only five minutes as there was nothing wrong with me.

After that I sat waiting in a special section for 30 minutes while staff made out a bill for 1,100 baht for that five minutes with the doctor. A physician valuation/management fee of 500 baht; a hospital fee costing 200 baht and an administrative fee of a further 400 baht. That is more than I pay at Bangkok Hospital Phuket or at the Phuket International Hospital.

I asked them why it was so expensive, to which I was told they had different prices for foreigners. I left with a bad feeling as I don't expect to be ripped off by a decent hospital.

If they want to charge fees like that they should at least make us aware of it beforehand.

– Gazette reader

Thanks for that heads up....I was going to give them a try

Re the pricing for locals againts expats you will find most European countries have a similar policy...being a NZr seeking medical help in the UK is much more expensive for me than a UK citizen

If you are a non-EU Citizen resident in the UK with a work-permit after 3 months you will be entitled to NHS care. EU citizens just need to be registered with a GP.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[madmitch]

A reader writes:

I went yesterday to the Phuket Provincial Hospital for a doctors visit that was only five minutes as there was nothing wrong with me.

After that I sat waiting in a special section for 30 minutes while staff made out a bill for 1,100 baht for that five minutes with the doctor. A physician valuation/management fee of 500 baht; a hospital fee costing 200 baht and an administrative fee of a further 400 baht. That is more than I pay at Bangkok Hospital Phuket or at the Phuket International Hospital.

I asked them why it was so expensive, to which I was told they had different prices for foreigners. I left with a bad feeling as I don't expect to be ripped off by a decent hospital.

If they want to charge fees like that they should at least make us aware of it beforehand.

– Gazette reader

Thanks for that heads up....I was going to give them a try

Re the pricing for locals againts expats you will find most European countries have a similar policy...being a NZr seeking medical help in the UK is much more expensive for me than a UK citizen

If you are a non-EU Citizen resident in the UK with a work-permit after 3 months you will be entitled to NHS care. EU citizens just need to be registered with a GP.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

With a WP you are entitled to use the social security scheme in Thailand so this reply is not relevant.

This type of dual-pricing is quite common throughout the world. Government owned and run healthcare facilities are for nationals and taxpayers and anyone else has to pay the going rate.

[dude007]

It usually all starts with the simple question "Do you have an insurance Sir?" and by answering this question you have already made the price yourself! I had 2 years ago a arthroscopic surgery in Samitivej BKK for which I paid a "bargained" price of 320,000 THB. [TO PAY IN ADVANCE]. By coincidence the same surgery had to be [re]done all over again in a Belgian hospital (during my last summer holidays) and the total price (all insurance included) was 2.280 Euro. This is according to my HP-15C calculator (and I renewed the batteries because I couldn't believe this): 3.6 time less than the SAME SURGERY in Samitivej. Next time, I buy myself a business class ticket to Belgium, have the surgery done and return to Bangkok and I will still make benefits! By the way: my insurance only reimbursed 41% of the total cost of the Samitivej invoice which was considered to be a rip-off!

Edited October 21, 2012 by dude007

[Mario2008]

You could complain to the consumers protection agency.

[dude007]

Wanna do something about it ,all your foreigners and expats alike,......sent emails and updates to all ur friends and families overseas to boycott Phuket and also Thailand, lobby to your governmenst and opposition groups back home to stop aiding Thailand in any trade and also funding policies and make poeple back home to terat thais there, be it workers, tourists or prostitutes, the same way that they treat foreigners in thailand if not worst.

Make sure that the foreign press pick up stories about how Thailand should be labelled as a medical hub and also discourage people from coming here for treatments, promote countries like Singapore, Malaysia or Australia as alternative medical hubs.

And lastly when you see the so called ar..... holes...who defenede these double pricing policies...spit on them in the public along with their imeediate families.

I just had complete shoulder re-construction surgery at one of the Bangkok group hospitals. The cost was just over 21,000 USD. In America surgery for just the rotator cuff for a friend was just over 65,000 USD. I found the surgeon to be excellent. The hospital facilities to be excellent. And the after surgery to be way above that gotten in the so called "western world".

That's why all international hospitalisation and health insurances doe not cover the USA and Hong Kong. These two are the worst in the world.

[dude007]

You could complain to the consumers protection agency.

address? Thanks for the advice

[dude007]

You could complain to the consumers protection agency.

address? Thanks for the advice

I just read some postings ago that someone paid in the USA for a simple rotator cuff (the some problem as I had) just over 65,000 THB? That's even more rip-off! But that's the USA...

[Mario2008]

You could complain to the consumers protection agency.

address? Thanks for the advice

webiste with complaint form: http://www.ocpb.go.th/

English complaint form: http://complain.ocpb.go.th/ocpbcomplain/COMPLANINT%20FORM/ComplaintFormForForeignerOnly_081254.pdf

[nontabury]

A reader writes:

I went yesterday to the Phuket Provincial Hospital for a doctors visit that was only five minutes as there was nothing wrong with me.

After that I sat waiting in a special section for 30 minutes while staff made out a bill for 1,100 baht for that five minutes with the doctor. A physician valuation/management fee of 500 baht; a hospital fee costing 200 baht and an administrative fee of a further 400 baht. That is more than I pay at Bangkok Hospital Phuket or at the Phuket International Hospital.

I asked them why it was so expensive, to which I was told they had different prices for foreigners. I left with a bad feeling as I don’t expect to be ripped off by a decent hospital.

If they want to charge fees like that they should at least make us aware of it beforehand.

– Gazette reader

Thanks for that heads up....I was going to give them a try

Re the pricing for locals againts expats you will find most European countries have a similar policy...being a NZr seeking medical help in the UK is much more expensive for me than a UK citizen

Not always true, I am a UK citizen, I would be charged the same as you if I required medical help in the Uk. If I was an illegal

Immigrant in the Uk,then yes it would be free for me.

[GeorgeO]

A reader writes:

I went yesterday to the Phuket Provincial Hospital for a doctors visit that was only five minutes as there was nothing wrong with me.

After that I sat waiting in a special section for 30 minutes while staff made out a bill for 1,100 baht for that five minutes with the doctor. A physician valuation/management fee of 500 baht; a hospital fee costing 200 baht and an administrative fee of a further 400 baht. That is more than I pay at Bangkok Hospital Phuket or at the Phuket International Hospital.

I asked them why it was so expensive, to which I was told they had different prices for foreigners. I left with a bad feeling as I don't expect to be ripped off by a decent hospital.

If they want to charge fees like that they should at least make us aware of it beforehand.

– Gazette reader

Thanks for that heads up....I was going to give them a try

Re the pricing for locals againts expats you will find most European countries have a similar policy...being a NZr seeking medical help in the UK is much more expensive for me than a UK citizen

If you are a non-EU Citizen resident in the UK with a work-permit after 3 months you will be entitled to NHS care. EU citizens just need to be registered with a GP.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Correct, and what our New Zealand poster has missed is the fact that charges in the UK are also very high for UK citizens; this is essentially because most of the NHS budget goes on those who claim to have no means of support, despite the fact that they have come in from EU countries and are working in the grey labor market..!

[nontabury]

Wanna do something about it ,all your foreigners and expats alike,......sent emails and updates to all ur friends and families overseas to boycott Phuket and also Thailand, lobby to your governmenst and opposition groups back home to stop aiding Thailand in any trade and also funding policies and make poeple back home to terat thais there, be it workers, tourists or prostitutes, the same way that they treat foreigners in thailand if not worst.

Make sure that the foreign press pick up stories about how Thailand should be labelled as a medical hub and also discourage people from coming here for treatments, promote countries like Singapore, Malaysia or Australia as alternative medical hubs.

And lastly when you see the so called ar..... holes...who defenede these double pricing policies...spit on them in the public along with their imeediate families.

I just had complete shoulder re-construction surgery at one of the Bangkok group hospitals. The cost was just over 21,000 USD. In America surgery for just the rotator cuff for a friend was just over 65,000 USD. I found the surgeon to be excellent. The hospital facilities to be excellent. And the after surgery to be way above that gotten in the so called "western world".

Good to hear you received excellent treatment,however you compare the price with that in the USA, what people here are comparing is the difference in the prices charged charged to Thai's and farangs here in Thailand. Maybe you'd have been better off,comparing the price charge to a USA citizen against that charged to a Thai,by an hospital in the USA.

[GeorgeO]

Phuket hospitals defend fractured pricing

I'm afraid the title should read "Tries to Defend" fractured pricing, because I do not agree that he has succeeded.

When two people attend a hospital, for the same problem, then the charges should be the same. A Thai person can have their bill reduced as a result of the THB 30 insurance or social security payments, so they will end up paying less than a farang; however, as noted in the article, the hospital can subsequently claim this reduction back from the government.

As regards farangs, by using the facilities, at the full rate of payment, they help to support the system, so there is no excuse for any additional costs, such as doubling or tripling the consultant's fee, because, as we all know, that goes straight into his pocket!

[noob7]

Jeez..stand by for self righteous venom.

I detest and abhor Farang Price as much as everyone else.

But I'd have thought the guy from Phuket Hospital made out a perfectly reasonable case for charging farang extra.

The hospital gets nothing from the Thai Governmet or Health Funds et al....if farang are treated.

It is NOT a charity.

Isn't it obvious that they need to recoup costs and make a profit?.

I wonder, how people call this 'scams' in their home countries, where doctors and hospitals doing exactly the same:

On price for people with social health Insurance = normal care

Another price for people in welfare = only real needed care

And a totally different price for private insured people = every care, you can/wanna afford!

As long your insurance isn't having a agreement with the hospital, you are paying out of your pocket.

Private!

Always nice, to see the insurance guys rolling their eyes, in case someone claims the refund for hospital bills on motorcycle accidents.

Would be a lot cheaper, if the hospital would get the insurance details in the beginning and had to bill the insurance direct.

I'm not a fan of double pricing, but in hospitals you mostly get more for more money.

You pay a lot more for the room, but you are alone in it, with English TV, and a nurse shows up quickly, on your ring.

Sure you may have to check with their price list. But complaining after a 'walk in' is about the same, like ordering a beer in a nightclub, and wondering about the 500 baht to pay for it, later!

It isn't like in national parks, temples in Bangkok, or in the restaurant or the Expo-Areas

Also the "we are so good, nice and cheap" article about this 'new' hospital, some weeks ago, was pointing (to me), that they need money.

The 30 baht customer aren't paying for the bills!

Edit: Also now it's easier, to chose international or Bangkok Hospital. No need to worry, that you pay too much, there!

Edited October 21, 2012 by noob7

[dighambara]

“For a doctor’s visit of less than 10 minutes, the cost is 200 baht; between 10 to 30 minutes, 300 baht; and more than 30 minutes costs 500 baht,” she said.

Crap . . . they charge far more than that for foreigners, same as most Hospitals . . . because they can and we are rich.

If you are rich, then why not live in Europe..?? I am poor, as are many retirees here...

If applied to foreign long stay residents, this is illegal.

Thai law is specific - any foreign National may be charged a tourist price, but locals of any Nationality pay local price. A driver's license, yellow book, blue book, or entry on a a blue book (house registry) makes any foreign national a local resident who only pays 'Thai price'.

Hawaii does this; locals pay a lower price than tourists - first thing I did on vacation was to get a Hawaiian Driver License.

Here in Udon, the Local private Hospital charges the same for everyone. I have been to Museum & Zoos - dozens of other places and paid local price.

However, T.I.T. where some operators don't know the law and charge by skin color - Chinese and Japanese are Thai price, while Whites and Blacks pay 'Farang Price'.

Charging a fee of someone based on their appearance is illegal.

[Tatsujin]

It usually all starts with the simple question "Do you have an insurance Sir?" and by answering this question you have already made the price yourself! I had 2 years ago a arthroscopic surgery in Samitivej BKK for which I paid a "bargained" price of 320,000 THB. [TO PAY IN ADVANCE]. By coincidence the same surgery had to be [re]done all over again in a Belgian hospital (during my last summer holidays) and the total price (all insurance included) was 2.280 Euro. This is according to my HP-15C calculator (and I renewed the batteries because I couldn't believe this): 3.6 time less than the SAME SURGERY in Samitivej. Next time, I buy myself a business class ticket to Belgium, have the surgery done and return to Bangkok and I will still make benefits! By the way: my insurance only reimbursed 41% of the total cost of the Samitivej invoice which was considered to be a rip-off!

If I remember correctly, Samitvej is by far THE most expensive Hospital in Thailand with costs being at least 30% higher than Bangkok Hospital for example.

[Tatsujin]

“For a doctor’s visit of less than 10 minutes, the cost is 200 baht; between 10 to 30 minutes, 300 baht; and more than 30 minutes costs 500 baht,” she said.

Crap . . . they charge far more than that for foreigners, same as most Hospitals . . . because they can and we are rich.

If you are rich, then why not live in Europe..?? I am poor, as are many retirees here...

If applied to foreign long stay residents, this is illegal.

Thai law is specific - any foreign National may be charged a tourist price, but locals of any Nationality pay local price. A driver's license, yellow book, blue book, or entry on a a blue book (house registry) makes any foreign national a local resident who only pays 'Thai price'.

Hawaii does this; locals pay a lower price than tourists - first thing I did on vacation was to get a Hawaiian Driver License.

Here in Udon, the Local private Hospital charges the same for everyone. I have been to Museum & Zoos - dozens of other places and paid local price.

However, T.I.T. where some operators don't know the law and charge by skin color - Chinese and Japanese are Thai price, while Whites and Blacks pay 'Farang Price'.

Charging a fee of someone based on their appearance is illegal.

The 'rich' reference I made was sarcasm.

As for things being 'illegal', good luck on getting that changed. You might have a drivers license or work permit, but you are not a resident as far as they are concerned.

[Jimmu]

A reader writes:

I went yesterday to the Phuket Provincial Hospital for a doctors visit that was only five minutes as there was nothing wrong with me.

After that I sat waiting in a special section for 30 minutes while staff made out a bill for 1,100 baht for that five minutes with the doctor. A physician valuation/management fee of 500 baht; a hospital fee costing 200 baht and an administrative fee of a further 400 baht. That is more than I pay at Bangkok Hospital Phuket or at the Phuket International Hospital.

I asked them why it was so expensive, to which I was told they had different prices for foreigners. I left with a bad feeling as I don’t expect to be ripped off by a decent hospital.

If they want to charge fees like that they should at least make us aware of it beforehand.

– Gazette reader

Thanks for that heads up....I was going to give them a try

Re the pricing for locals againts expats you will find most European countries have a similar policy...being a NZr seeking medical help in the UK is much more expensive for me than a UK citizen

That is simply wrong! The UK has a publicly funded healthcare system and treatment is free of charge at point for those legally in the UK. Emergency treatment is free for all, inc foreigners. In Scotland treatment is free as are prescriptions. Other treatments may well be free if covered by reciprocal agreements. Europe does not have the same policies as Thailand.

[jocko]

12/ 10/12

[JeffreyMcCollum]

What a cespool of greed Phuket has become. and it keeps getting worse. Someday the gravy train will run out and everyone will wonder what happened

Happy with my fair equal treatment I get up north

[Jaivin2011]

Well, just hope that one day a strong earthquake with sink the island along with all the greedy thai businessmen and also the expats and tourists who condone these practices residing on the island.