Best Thai Language School

[helot]

Do any of these schools offer short intensive courses? Like a 7 day intensive course?

[Tod Daniels]

Hello. Could people tell me what they think of AAA vs Walen for a beginner?

I posted about these 60 hour/6000baht programs offered by many schools in this thread;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Language-School-t309015.html

The schools that teach the Union or Unity based method of thai (of which AAA is one) all use transcription or representing thai sounds with the english alphabet. There are many of these schools out there ALL descended from the first Union school. It was developed and designed to teach thai to foreign missionaries who were sent to thailand to convert the natives from buddhism to (insert the religion of your choice here ). Most of the owners of the current schools were teachers long ago at the first Union school and then left to open their own schools. Sadly because it one of the older methods, their text books are very dated.

If you are NOT completely dedicated to spending the time in class learning, you're gonna wash out. The classes go very fast and are quite intensive as far as interaction with the teachers and drills you do with other students. The upside is they are cheap to go to, and you get a great value for your money IF you can process all the information. The down side is; miss a class, forfeit your hours, wash out of the program before it's finished and lose both your time and money.

I attended Walen School for a year and have all their books. In the 4 hours a week you're planning on attending I doubt you’ll ever learn to speak anything close to thai. You just might learn to speak phrases out of the textbook like a trained parrot, MAYBE. I do think the Walen School’s method has value, IF you can already read some thai and want to increase your reading vocabulary.

The books are simply translated versions of the Callan Method of teaching english; nearly page for page, word for word. Unfortunately the method doesn't concentrate on "high value words" (words you're going to use over and over), nor on "frozen phrases" (combinations of words that you're going to say over and over).

As I said, I think there is value in the method IF you can read some already, but I've yet to meet a person who started attending that school "cold" (neither knowing how to read or speak more than "two-word-tourist-thai) and after a year's attendance had anything resembling competency or coherency in either spoken or reading thai. I have however met more "trained parrots" than I care to count .

But hey don’t take my word for it; If you would like to talk to current and/or former students (or the teachers) to get their take on it, gimme a P/M and I’ll see if I can’t put you in touch with some of them.

[mangkorn]

... I've yet to meet a person who started attending that school "cold" (neither knowing how to read or speak more than "two-word-tourist-thai) and after a year's attendance had anything resembling competency or coherency in either spoken or reading thai. I have however met more "trained parrots" than I care to count.

Very good point. I once knew an Australian woman who lived here for several years and spoke beautiful Thai. She began as a university exchange-student, and then worked in the NGO world, but most of her friends were Thai, and she always spoke with them in Thai. She said she found it remarkable how many farangs she had encountered who diligently attended language schools, but couldn't speak Thai worth squat. Her conclusion was that school attendance, vis-a-vis the rest of their existence here, were pretty much mutually exclusive pursuits. "With their Thai friends and colleagues, they always ending up speaking English after a couple of perfunctory Thai phrases or words," she said.

I don't know many farangs myself, but that sounded like a reasonable explanation. I have observed lots of farangs who approach Thai people with a greeting, and perhaps another phrase or two designed to establish their cleverness, but then they immediately go running back to the warmth and safety of the English-language womb. I suspect that is the norm. As you say, a trained parrot can't carry on a real conversation, no matter how insubstantial that conversation probably would be.

Seems to me that a farang who is serious about Thai language, should try to deal with immigration officials, bank officers, utility companies, landlords, dentists, airlines, etc., only in Thai language. Even (or especially) over the telephone.

If you can't do that, then you can't speak Thai.

[SoftWater]

... I've yet to meet a person who started attending that school "cold" (neither knowing how to read or speak more than "two-word-tourist-thai) and after a year's attendance had anything resembling competency or coherency in either spoken or reading thai. I have however met more "trained parrots" than I care to count.

Very good point. I once knew an Australian woman who lived here for several years and spoke beautiful Thai. She began as a university exchange-student, and then worked in the NGO world, but most of her friends were Thai, and she always spoke with them in Thai. She said she found it remarkable how many farangs she had encountered who diligently attended language schools, but couldn't speak Thai worth squat. Her conclusion was that school attendance, vis-a-vis the rest of their existence here, were pretty much mutually exclusive pursuits. "With their Thai friends and colleagues, they always ending up speaking English after a couple of perfunctory Thai phrases or words," she said.

I don't know many farangs myself, but that sounded like a reasonable explanation. I have observed lots of farangs who approach Thai people with a greeting, and perhaps another phrase or two designed to establish their cleverness, but then they immediately go running back to the warmth and safety of the English-language womb. I suspect that is the norm. As you say, a trained parrot can't carry on a real conversation, no matter how insubstantial that conversation probably would be.

Seems to me that a farang who is serious about Thai language, should try to deal with immigration officials, bank officers, utility companies, landlords, dentists, airlines, etc., only in Thai language. Even (or especially) over the telephone.

If you can't do that, then you can't speak Thai.

Yes, but what you're describing is just the relative confidence of the two speakers in any given situation. The person who is least confident about their foreign language use (either the farang speaking thai or the thai speaking English) will follow the lead of the more confident one. This is natural and part of the process of learning. It doesn't need to be sneered at.

[HalfSquat]

Seems to me that a farang who is serious about Thai language, should try to deal with immigration officials, bank officers, utility companies, landlords, dentists, airlines, etc., only in Thai language. Even (or especially) over the telephone.

If you can't do that, then you can't speak Thai.

Surely you need to learn some Thai before doing that? Where is the best place/way to do so?

[Parvis]

A comment on "Walen".

I presently attend Walen - private lessons at 750 baht per lesson - I have 8 more lessons to complete - but will have gone through the total book within the next 2 lesson.

I feel the method has merit - but the book was obviously translated by an individual who does not speak proper English - nor Thai - nor has any experience in teaching. There are may mistakes in translation and usage in English and Thai in the teaching material/book.

After completing the first book YOU WILL NOT be able to ask someone for his/her name age etc etc.. In other words YOU WILL NOT be able to have the simplest of conversations in Thai.

While the method has merit the book is not user friendly and will not teach you basic communications on any level - but you MAY BE able to read street signs.

If you interested to learn Thai - Berlitz in the same building charges the same prices (private 750 baht/lesson) - but is very professional with excellent teaching material. I have only talked to them so far - and will continue to talk to other schools - before deciding where to continue.

If your only interest is to obtain a student visa - Walen may be good for you - you will not even have to attend class.

[SoftWater]

If you're going down the 'private lessons' route you can get a lot better deal than 750B/hr. Try AAA at ChidLom (google search 'thai language' and you'll find AAA at the top of the page) - excellent teachers, professional set-up, dedicated to seeing their students succeed, last check 400B/hr (tho' that was nearly two years ago now, but I'd be very surprised if it has gone up to anything more than 500B.). They'll take you from beginner right through to prepping for the gov't exam if you want to go that far. If learning one-on-one (private lesson), you also avoid the 'in at the deep end' that others have mentioned that goes along with the 5-days a week intensive classroom sessions.

Edited November 5, 2009 by SoftWater

[RickBradford]

If your only interest is to obtain a student visa

Please note that there is no such thing as a 1-year student visa (as far as the student is concerned).

It works like this. The school applies for a "one-year visa" on your behalf.

What you as a student receive is a 3-month visa, extendable every subsequent 3 months (1900Bt, and must be supported by fresh documentation from your school each time), up to a maximum of a year. You don't have to leave the country, just go to Jaengwattana to extend as well as doing your 90-day reporting.

So don't think you can pay an upfront school fee and relax in Thailand for the next year, it doesn't work that way. It may well be that some schools don't care whether you turn up to any classes, once you have paid your money up front. At the very least, you will need a letter from them every 3 months to confirm you are a student.

[Tod Daniels]

Just an FYI to the poster known as RickBradford...

Please note that there is no such thing as a 1-year student visa (as far as the student is concerned.

There are INDEED one year multiple re-entry ED visas. I have personally seen 3 of them that fellow students had. They were issued from Thai Consulates; one was from the US, one from the UK, and one from an EU country. They used the paperwork from the thai language school they had enrolled in as documentation and were issued Non-O Type ED Multi Entry Visas. While it is true you are unlikely to get more than a 90 day single entry ED visa from any thai consulate in a neighboring country, you can get the year one from the US, UK, or EU pretty much for the asking.

It works like this. The school applies for a "one-year visa" on your behalf.

Also FYI, the school does NOT apply for you, nor do anything other than supply you with documentation that you have indeed enrolled in a thai language school for a year's term and that they are indeed a Ministry of Education approved school. You do the rest yourself, outside the country at an embassy or consulate of your choice.

What you as a student receive is a 3-month visa, extendable every subsequent 3 months (1900Bt, and must be supported by fresh documentation from your school each time), up to a maximum of a year. You don't have to leave the country, just go to Jaengwattana to extend as well as doing your 90-day reporting.

The visa I mentioned earlier was valid for a year. Unfortunately with this type of visa there a maximum permission to stay of 90 days in country BEFORE you must "run for the border" to receive another 90 day stamp. This can be done right up to the last day the visa is valid for, resulting in an approximate 15 month stay. No trips to Changwattana, no extensions, and it is multi-reentry so come and go all you want.

The 90 day Single Entry ED Visa which most students get in neighboring S/E Asian countries at the thai consulates do indeed need to be extended every 90 days with documentation from the school, and the 1900 baht extension fee. <- So you got something right in your post

At the very least, you will need a letter from them every 3 months to confirm you are a student.

Yet another FYI, rumor has it; some schools are giving you ALL the paperwork for your entire year's worth of extensions at one time. This effectively puts the burden on the student to keep track of when they need to apply for their next extension, and quite effectively removes any liability from the school if the student misses their extension. The added benefit for a less than motivated student is; they need not even attend class after they get their paperwork. Then again, I started this statement with "rumor has it", so take it for what you will.......

(edited for sa-pelling)

Edited November 6, 2009 by tod-daniels

[RickBradford]

^

OK, I will accept your amendments.

But the "one-year" visa you mention requires a border run every 90 days, am I right? To me, that seems worse than being able to stay here and extend at Jaengwattana for 1900Bt a pop.

My idea of a 'one-year visa' (as seen on this site), is a visa which allows you to stay here for a year with just 90-day reporting to be done. No border runs or extensions. But that is not possible, it seems.

Semantics, perhaps, but I would suggest that the Thai school does indeed apply for the visa on my behalf; they write to the Ministry of Education and say "this person is studying here, please accept this application and supporting documentation as genuine, and send us an approval letter which he can show to an overseas consulate."

Or am I wrong again?

Edited November 6, 2009 by RickBradford

[Tod Daniels]

But the "one-year" visa you mention requires a border run every 90 days, am I right? To me, that seems worse than being able to stay here and extend at Jaengwattana for 1900Bt a pop.

Correct, as I said in the earlier post the Non-O Type-ED One Year Multi-Entry visa is limited to a 90 day stay and you do border run to get another 90 days (current cost right now about 1900-2200 depending on the provider of the run), so it's a wash financially.

My idea of a 'one-year visa' (as seen on this site), is a visa which allows you to stay here for a year with just 90-day reporting to be done. No border runs or extensions. But that is not possible, it seems.

Actually it is possible (although it seems like it was an anomaly). Macwalen would know better about why or how it happened. There were a couple students who attended his Pattaya school and went to extend their initial 90 day ED visa at Jomtien Immigrations. For some strange reason, they were given a year long "permitted to stay" stamp, even though everyone else is just getting the normal 90 day stamps. I did see a couple scans he posted of students passports with the year long stamp.

Most private thai language schools cannot get you anything more than a 90 day initial ED visa and extensions of stay for the rest of the year. The same cannot be said for actual colleges here in thailand. People who come to continue their education routinely do get the year visa with only 90 day reporting to be done. They are however not just studying the thai language but working on their Bachelors, Masters, etc

Semantics,

I'll write the last part off to semantics as well..

Please be advised that I do write very bluntly, very cynically, and very heavy-handed.

No disrespect of persons living or deceased is intended.

[RickBradford]

No disrespect of persons living or deceased is intended.

No offence has been taken by any living or deceased persons that I know.

I think the exchange may have clarified matters and hence benefited present and potential future students.

[Tod Daniels]

Does anyone out there attend the thai language school called Baan Phassaa Thai (Thai Language House) which is located on the 14th floor of the Saranjai Mansion?

Here's their website; http://www.thailanguagehouse.com/

Just wondering if anyone has attended or can give some info. ..

[MacWalen]

A comment on "Walen".

I presently attend Walen - private lessons at 750 baht per lesson - I have 8 more lessons to complete - but will have gone through the total book within the next 2 lesson.

I feel the method has merit - but the book was obviously translated by an individual who does not speak proper English - nor Thai - nor has any experience in teaching. There are may mistakes in translation and usage in English and Thai in the teaching material/book.

After completing the first book YOU WILL NOT be able to ask someone for his/her name age etc etc.. In other words YOU WILL NOT be able to have the simplest of conversations in Thai.

While the method has merit the book is not user friendly and will not teach you basic communications on any level - but you MAY BE able to read street signs.

If you interested to learn Thai - Berlitz in the same building charges the same prices (private 750 baht/lesson) - but is very professional with excellent teaching material. I have only talked to them so far - and will continue to talk to other schools - before deciding where to continue.

If your only interest is to obtain a student visa - Walen may be good for you - you will not even have to attend class.

If you are so kind please see me for a consultation. It is very strange that after book one you cannot ask a person's age or name. That is indeed hard to believe. Perhaps you missed a few pages in book 1 dealing with this. I will be happy to show you where it is in your book.

Also can you give specific examples of what is wrong with the content of the book? What are those mistakes? The book has only translations into English, it is totally in Thai so there should not be a lot of problems with the usage of English.

After knowing 720 words you will not be able to have the simplest conversation in Thai? Are you serious? Anyway, thank you for your feedback and please see me to have a chat about your progress. I am indeed saddened that you make the kind of statements you make.

You made quite a hostile post and if this is indeed how you feel I will be happy to offer you extra lessons as I give guarantee on my lessons, of course you need to tell me why the lessons were not worth your money and what the teacher did wrong. My guess is that you struggle with the Thai alphabet, it can be discouraging at first and initially it takes a little time but later makes learning Thai incredibly fast. Also the objective of learning the language is not only to learn a few simple expressions but to learn how the language works so you can later build on solid foundations.

Walen School - please tell the truth

www.thaiwalen.com

For priority service please register

www.dcs.walenschool.com/1mw290910.eng

Edited February 28, 2011 by macwalen

[Parvis]

Your teacher did nothing wrong - in fact she is very good. The whole frustration with "Walen" is the way your book was put together. It is not userfriendly and "teaches" many unnecessary concepts and has many obvious errors. I'll be happy to point them out for you.

You may want to check your Book 1 and point out to me where on ANY page you find simple phrases such as: What is your name - where are you from etc etc etc.. In fact there is nothing anywhere which will teach you simple phrases and words to start a conversation with.

You learn a language trying to communicate - and then - "repetition - repetition - repetition" (may sound familiar to you) - but repetition of "high value phrases and words" you can use immediately in every day life and continue to build on this base. You learn a language by using it.

Your book has many difficult to pronounce grammatical concepts etc. etc. etc. but very little in terms of being useful to the beginner or even the more advanced.

Let me assure you my problem is not the Thai script - I was familiar with it before I came to Walen.

I feel the "Walen method" has merit but your book is poor, unprofessional and user unfriendly. I'll be happy to point the problems out to you.

[Tod Daniels]

The Walen Method is just the Callan Method copied/translated into thai (so close in fact that it follows it almost page by page). In translating it into thai I agree some of the sentence constructs seem artifical. Also the Callan Method is NOT thematic in its method of teaching or in any of its lessons (i.e.: there are no scenarios which are 'location' or 'task' specific to act out or role play). That is why there is no interactive dialog driven conversational thai in the book. It is simply not that type of book or method.

I just reviewed the first 110 vocab words in Book 1 (the first 5 lessons/chapters), against the spread sheet pinned on T/V which lists the top 3000 words in thai. In macs defense, all of his words (other than personal names) made it on the list, although some were further down the list than others. So his method is teaching commonly used and necessary words to speak thai. What it is not teaching is how to put the learned vocabulary together to form other sentence constructs. I concur with the poster “Parvis” in that the method doesn't concentrate on conversational thai at all (but I covered that in the opening paragraph).

IMHO, the Walen Method does have value; IF you can read even a little thai before you attend. It will give you a solid base of recognizable thai vocabulary words which can help a person learn to read better.

Reading thai (or any language for that matter) is about ONE thing and ONE thing only. The ability to recognize groups of letters as words, and understand the meaning of those words when strung together in a sentence. Reading is NOT recognizing the individual letters; because NO ONE reads anything letter by letter. It is also NOT about correct pronunciation, because you read silently to yourself.

If when silently reading, you mispronounce in your mind; ขาว, or ข่าว or ข้าว or เขา, or even เข้า, but know the different meanings of somewhat similar sounding yet differently spelled words, you're fine. (Oh BTW; I think those words were; white, news, rice, 3rd person pronoun and enter ).

I know students who can 'read' almost any sentence in the Walen Books, some even can tell the specific tone rule for every word they read (admirable, because I certainly can't do that); yet they cannot "back translate" the meaning of what they just read into english or their native language (if it's not english). Sadly, at least to me, that type of 'reading' carries very little "bang for the baht" in the real world. If you can’t read something in thai and then tell me in english what you just read, your comprehension is far below your ability to ‘read’.

I also think the spacing of words in both Walen Books (1 & 2), does a disservice to the students. I can understand Book 1 being spaced out, as it is the introduction to the method. Doing it with both books however lets the students slide on learning how to delineate where one word ends and another begins in "real" written thai. More students than I care to count can't read the simplest of signage out in front of the Time's Square Building; "bus stop", "short cut", "Robinson's Department Store", "parking lot full" or even "exit/enter"; simply because the words aren't spaced out.

Believe me; I have NO axe to grind with macwalen. Once again I acknowledge his savvy business/marketing skills. His school provides both an avenue for people wishing to stay in thailand (who do not meet the requirements of other visa types) as well as helping those who wish to learn this language too. Few of us indeed can say we provide anything close to that type of service for foreigners wishing to stay and learn the language.

After all we are in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". .. Is it too much to ask that we converse with the indigenous people in their language (at least a little bit)?

[Parvis]

"

The Walen Method is just the Callan Method copied/translated into thai (so close in fact that it follows it almost page by page). In translating it into thai I agree some of the sentence constructs seem artifical. Also the Callan Method is NOT thematic in its method of teaching or in any of its lessons (i.e.: there are no scenarios which are 'location' or 'task' specific to act out or role play). That is why there is no interactive dialog driven conversational thai in the book. It is simply not that type of book or method."

Yes indeed, the "Walen method of teaching Thai" appears to be a direct translation of a book "teaching English in the English language". The Walen book #1 has many grammatical terms in Thai - which are totally unnecessary to speak the language. Yet - not anywhere in the book is it mentioned that in English an adjective is used BEFORE a noun. In Thai an adjective comes AFTER the noun. This fact is certainly one of those "high value facts" are worth remembering.

Walens book appears an attempt to "teach Thai with English as base". This requires a different approach totally ignored in the process of developing this teaching material.

I was actually not a beginning student when I started. My own evaluation of my progress at this point:

1) Ability to speak Thai - no progress

2) Ability to read Thai - some progress

3) Vocabulary - some progress

My dissatisfaction has absolutely nothing to do with my teacher . My teacher is very capable, very professional and probably the best teacher at Walen.

My claim still remains - this book was put together thoughtlessly by someone not really interested in teaching anyone the Thai Language. Those problems I see undaubtedly were stated before - without results. For instance - the fact that "compound sentences" SHOULD NEVER be used in conveying any concept is just not a principle known to the developer of this book.

If you charge premium prices you are expected to supply premium quality. According to your 1st paragraph this book was not even proofread by anyone other than the Author.

Yes, Walen appear to do an admirable job af attracting people in need of a Visa. Their advertising speaks for itself. According to my observation Walen has very few students actually attending Classes to learn Thai. If correct this is fraudulent.

[DavidHouston]

Khun Parvis,

You said:

"For instance - the fact that "compound sentences" SHOULD NEVER be used in conveying any concept is just not a principle known to the developer of this book."

Please help explain this rule for us. I am not taking issue with this important principle, but an explanation would help:

1. What is a "compound sentence" in Thai?

2. Please provide an example of a "compound sentence".

3. Are all compound sentences verboten in Thai? How about English?

Thank you.

[Parvis]

What is a "compound sentence"?

Well - a "compound sentence (or complex sentence)" is not a "simple sentence". Compound sentences are not "verboten" in any language. But certainly when teaching a language, especially in the beginning stage, you should try to stay with "simple sentences". Namely you should aim to stay within a "simple sentence structure" the brain can comprehend and retain (yet - still "challenge").

You may be aware that the "short-term memory of the brain (hippocampus)" has a limited ability to retain information until it is processed and retained in the more "longterm memory" part of the brain. To be effective in teaching any language (not only languages) - you should make use of this fact. There are, ofcourse, methods to increase the amount of information the hippocampus can retain - also known as "anchoring - etc. etc. etc." which a "superb teacher" just automatically uses. But this gets into a discussion more complex in nature - beyond this short comment.

I may have somewhat "overstated - never using compound sentences" - because there certainly is a proper use for them. The use of compound and complex sentence structures make "writings etc" more interesting by involving the reader more in the comprehension of what is being said. For instance - in a novel you just cannot put down until you finished it. But it is a question where to apply it. The correct application is certainly not in lengthy, complex sentences in a beginning language course - where just the "bulk" of the info supplied overwhelms the mind.

"Simple - Compound - Complex sentence structures" are not terms I invented - therefore you should be able to read much more on this subject by "googling" it. They may not explain the "psychological reasons" for using one or the other - but you may get a better understanding of the terms.

[SoftWater]

I'm sure Parvis has a valid point, but I think the issue of sentence structure is a red-herring. It's a common misconception that simple sentences are 'simple'.

Simple sentence:

Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pale of water and to have a bit of fun.

Compound sentence:

I like fruit, but you like vegetables.

Complex sentence:

I got wet because it rained.

It seems to me that the simple sentence in these examples has a greater 'cognitive load' than either the compound or complex sentence. The point of compound and complex sentences is to show relationships between ideas that cannot be as clearly expressed in a series of simple sentences. In that respect, they make understanding easier - indeed, that is the point of grammatical structures as a whole.

I haven't seen Walen's book, but whatever errors it may or may not contain, I wouldn't knock it for using a variety of sentence structures, though of course much depends on how the material is presented and taught.

[MacWalen]

Khun Parvis,

What other languages do you speak? For some learning to speak is simply very difficult. No matter what method you use. If you studied for 60 hours you should already be able to have at least a simple conversation using a dictionary for the words you do not know or the ones you forgot.

I hear your insults and will attribute it to your frustration probably caused by your age, we do not deserve this insult, many people worked on the book for a long time, but of course you know much better, you are yet another language expert on the block. "My claim still remains - this book was put together thoughtlessly by someone not really interested in teaching anyone the Thai Language".

If you knew how much time was spent developing the method and modifying it you would perhaps have a different opinion.

Easy to criticize hard to actually do something.

The method is very good in the opinion of great many. We offer one week free classes for those who want to try and decide, if they like that is great if not that is fine too.

Also just for the record, you are in your mid 70's, how old exactly? 75? ( this information is not from the student's records, Parvis mentioned in his first post that he immigrated to Australia 50 years ago, I assumed he could have been about 25 then or perhaps older) It is harder to learn languages at that age but you should not be insulting others over your own limitations, we are here to help you not to fight with you. 20 years might make a difference. I am not sure if that is the reason, but if it is, it makes your harsh criticism easier to take.

At least the teacher is great, good to hear. We are doing our best to select teachers who make learning easy and enjoyable.

Walen School - always here to help

www.thaiwalen.com

For priority service please register

www.dcs.walenschool.com/1mw290910.eng

Edited February 28, 2011 by macwalen

[Parvis]

Dear Walen

Ahh Interesting - Interesting. Now your knocking my age. But you are off - significantly. Do "older people" have more difficulty in learning? Probably not - but your aim is just to insult me - anyhow - so there is no use to debate your comment.

The problems I have pointed out have been pointed out before.

I accept not all my points are "totally valid". For instance my point about the "sentence structure".

Your advertising "Fast Effective and Interactive" - yet everyone I have heard about since I started at Walen claims they can read some - but not speak. Do I speak Thai so far? Yes, but I did not learn it at Walen - I have lived in Thailand for 3 years already. What I lack is "structure" - I had hoped to gain at Walen.

I mentioned in the beginning that I am not a "Beginner" - but you do not appear to have a testing method to determine exactly where I should be placed. The only question was "Do you need a Visa?". I am not a beginner therefore I could evaluate your teaching materials better - since I did not "struggle" with the usual "challenges".

According to my observation you have very few actual students studying Thai. Your business appears to be generating Visas (if so - fraudulently) - not teaching Thai.

My impression so far - you have a "theoretical teaching system that has merit". The biggest problem? The way it is put together and in particular - You - with your refusal to accept that in many areas the criticism is valid.

[kriswillems]

Khun Parvis,

I hear your insults and will attribute it to your frustration probably caused by your age

....

Easy to criticize hard to actually do something.

....

Also just for the record, you are in your mid 70's, how old exactly? 75? ( this information is not from the student's records, Parvis mentioned in his first post that he immigrated to Australia 50 years ago, I assumed he could have been about 25 then or perhaps older) It is harder to learn languages at that age but you should not be insulting others over your own limitations, we are here to help you not to fight with you. 20 years might make a difference. I am not sure if that is the reason, but if it is, it makes your harsh criticism easier to take.

....

www.thaiwalen.com

Mr. Walen, although you claim to be the manager/owner the biggest Thai language school in the world, very few of your students care to write on this message board. The people that do write something are rather negative, after which they systematically get insulted by you.

You are just being rude. There are some people on this message board that are much older than you and I and that know probably much more Thai than both of us.

Edited November 9, 2009 by kriswillems

[MacWalen]

Kris, sorry, but you write things that are not correct. Presenting our side of the story is not being insulting, you were always a negative fellow towards our school. Like you have a complex or something, just get off our case, what is the point of you being involved in this particular exchange? Everyone knows that if you say something about Walen it will be negative.

Also you are missing the point. Did I say anything about older people not knowing more about Thai than you and I? Not related to the topic at hand at all.

And Parvis, for you, you are also not consistent in what you write, you say I insult you? Common sir, you did insult me, I just stated that you were old and that might be a reason for some of your complaints. If that is not the case than that is ok and I just accept that you are rude without knowing it, I did not even say it was the case with you being old, but it might.

You are treated well, by my staff and my teachers. The method is what it is, perfect for some not so perfect for others, your stories about compound sentences this and compound sentences that, as pointed by other contributors, were not quite correct.

Regarding our students not contributing, perhaps they are afraid of you guys, not everyone is as witted as some of the forum participants but I am here so if you have a valid point bring it on.

Kind regards,

Walen School - let's be fair

www.thaiwalen.com

For priority service please register

www.dcs.walenschool.com/1mw290910.eng

Edited February 28, 2011 by macwalen

[BlueTerrace]

Can I make the suggestion that if you are searching for a good language course then check out two or three schools and chose the one that suits you best? Ask for a trial lesson and make a point of talking to students in the break time to see what they really think about the school. I am going to suggest three you could visit: TLS, Language Express and MyThai.

[GAS]

Noob here! Have not had a chance to read all 16 pages of this thread but will search through it a bit more! Are there other schools who offer help with a ed visa? I would like to get a visa, but my main concern is getting some quality instruction in the Thai language!

Is it very difficult to obtain an ED visa on one's own while in their home country? Does a school need to be selected before hand and some paperwork submitted? I searched a bit looking for a thread that details this but I must be using the wrong terms as I did not find anything and I am sure it has been gone over! Thanks!

[languageexpress]

Hey Gas,

Since others have done so before me, I am going to answer your question and include a plug for my school at the same time.

My advice is that anyone serious about learning a language should check out a couple of schools, to find one that’s right for them. Naturally I hope you include ours in your list when you do -it’s called Language Express

The Thai department has it’s own excellent textbook (with translations in the back) this is supplemented by a commercially available textbook, Poomsecker ‘s Thai for Beginners.

The teachers at Language Express are first rate, qualified and given on -going training to keep them up to the mark. They’re serious about teaching but energetic, friendly and very approachable. As with many language schools, you can take a trial lesson before you buy, and I also recommend you talk to other students in the break (and without ‘helpful’ staff hovering around) to see what they really think.

One final point worth mentioning is that it’s easy to get to. Language Express is located 5 meters from Exit 2 at Ploejnjit Station. It's on the ground floor, easy to spot and very nicely appointed.

I am being upfront about declaring my involvement in a school I have a vested interest in, but think the advice is sound. That is, check out a few schools, look through their textbooks, take a trial lesson and talk to students to see if they’re happy or not. You should also ask if the school has a plan for putting you in an existing class, or are they just going to drop you in at week 14 and let you work it out on your own.

Hope this helps.

[HalfSquat]

Anyone recommend a good school for tourist style conversational Thai for the beginner?

[Scottish Thailander]

ST, I think he said in one post that he was taking private lessons. It may have been moderated, though.

SW,

Thanks.

ST.

[Parvis]

Scottish Thailander – per your request

My Thai lessons (30) at Walen were all "private lessons" – one-on-one - the teacher and I. The price for 30 lessons 2250 baht = 750 baht/hour (same as Berlitz - same building). I would describe my teacher at Walen as very professional and experienced – she just naturally used "anchors" for me to be able to remember difficult material. This was on her initiative – not in the book. My teacher remained the same from Lesson 1 through Lesson 30.

I do not recommend private lessons unless you have specific reasons. My reasons for private lessons were:

1) I wanted to learn the language quickly.

2) I was already able to speak – read – write "some" Thai (Walen had no tests to "place" me based on my previous "self taught" knowledge).

3) I personally find "Group lessons" boring and tedious since I tend to be a fast learner – despite my age (mid 60th) – or maybe because of it.

The teacher worked with the same materials as in Group lessons and in theory is instructed not to deviate. In practice this depends very much on quality of your teacher, your personal motivation and your ability to comprehend – an often difficult material. (For instance - I completed the 123 pages of Book 1 in 24 lessons/ hours – therefore the "structured segment of the course" was completed with 6 hours to spare).

I struggled with – and continue to struggle with:

a) Sentence structure

Tones/pronunciation

c) Reading/Comprehension

While I have always objected to using "phonetics" in learning Thai – I now feel the use of phonetics MAY BE appropriate for beginners desiring to be able to speak conversational Thai quickly. "Some" schools (including Berlitz) use phonetics AND Thai script next to each other. The "phonetics" can be used as "crutch" until you are able to read with Thai script only. This assumes, of course, you will learn Thai script "collaterally" – in some way. Walens "incredible method (copied from Callan method to teach English)" essentially consists of "repetition – repetition – repetition" – which I agree with - in principle.

I will continue my Thai language studies – shortly - as soon as I find an acceptable (to me) Thai language school. For me – this is not a question of price – but a question of quality, location and time available.

Should you have suggestions of Schools, Methods and Criticism etc. etc. etc. – Please do not hesitate and please advice.

PCP