Serious Discussion About Import Bikes Without Green Book

[dagling]

Want to have a serious discussion about importing bikes without Green Book, but that has all legal papers Invoice and tax papers.

It is claimed that it will introduce a new law here in Thailand before the New Year 2012, and that big bikes without Green Book will not be worth more than scrap metal; -)

It is also claimed by some that the police / customs authorities may confiscate bicycles without the Green Book with the new law in hand, which they have not had the opportunity yet to do ...

My point is that this law can not have any effect or retrospectively bikes legally imported into Thailand, and that it also paid import tax on?

I am one of those who drive a big bike without Green Book, and do understand that it is illegal to drive without a valid license plate.

Some argue that a bicycle is legally imported into Thailand, but missing Green Book is legal on the road, while others argue the opposite;-)))

I`m not looking to hear what people THINK, I'm looking for documents FACTS !!!

Please come with serious ideas and hold you to topics that are addressed thanks;-)

[jbrain]

I think it's quite easy, if a bike would be road legal without a green book, then why would they issue green books to other bikes.

Just notice that you only want documents, facts.In that case buy yourself a copy of the Thai traffic laws and see for yourself that a bike needs to be registered to be road legal.

You claim in the OP that you are aware that it is illegal to drive without a valid license plate, and you know that without a green book you can't get one, so what's the question?

Edited October 22, 2012 by jbrain

[nikster]

Enjoy it while it lasts. Sorry to not post any hard facts but TiT, and there are so many bikes out there, and getting on the road, every day, without green book that I can't imagine there would ever been a serious crackdown such as would happen in a county where laws are taken seriously. I personally don't recommend anyone get such a bike - mainly because of the hassle; you've got to expect the police to milk you for tea money now and again. Other than that, it's probably going to be fine. Mai Pen Rai. Pay up & enjoy your bike.

[wantan]

In Thailand many things that are "not legal", "not allowed" or simply "not wanted by legislature" are tolerated by executive. This does not mean they are "legal" or "allowed". And of course everything that is tolerated can be punished. If you want to ride on public streets you need a greenbook (no tricky fake book) and legal plates (no permanent red plates or other "trick plates"). Sorry, i am no lawyer, but i have a driving license and therefore should know it

What do you want to find? An official paper from government that "motorbikes do not need a greenbook"? You will not find it. And i doubt that any serious lawyer will tell you something different. A legally imported bike is legal, as long as you do not ride it on public streets. Enjoy your ride. No risk no fun

[poanoi]

I was talking to a mechanic about this,

and he said that he could make a book on an imported bike,

but that book would be neither white or black, but grey.

From what i can understand, that book would pass a causal check,

but not pass a professional check.

A friend also checked what it would cost to import a new bike from US,

the company said they could ship it, but it would end up costing twice as much

in Thailand vs US

[justcruisin]

The new law has been in place now for many months now.

A friend (ex bike importer) who who seems to have connections stated that it is serious, no importation of complete bikes.

Maybe you can ask some of the owners of the 200+ unplated bikes that were seized by the police in CM almost 2 years ago?

That blitz probably netted them several Mill in fines and a few free Harleys.

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread comes to mind!

Buy a legal bike in this inflated market and sell back into the same inflated market yeah?

[Richard-BKK]

Basically this topic should be divided into two topics.

For the first topic, yes you can 100% legally import a motorcycle which you not need to register if you wish to use it on private property, think like motocross, racetrack motorcycles... etc..

Motorcycles without registration will probably be never be equal to the scrap metal price, even when you have a road bike which cannot be registered you can still ride it on the racetrack. Still even on private property, the long arms of the TAX office can reach. No so long ago a motorcycle of a friend was confiscated by the revenue department. He was transporting it in the back of his pickup when he was stopped on his way back from Pattaya. (He was unable to provide proof of all import taxes and duties where paid.)

The second topic is the registration of an imported motorcycle, for this the motorcycle needs to be confirm specifications set out by the Department of Land Transport. This specifications include simple specs like head- and tail- lights, directional lights, horn and some safety features like braking distance and a few more obvious specs. While most modern motorcycles will easily pass this first level of inspection, the serious problem start with the environmental testing. Thailand has very strict and tough rules when it comes to exhaust emission and other environmental testing.

Officially it's currently not possible to import a secondhand motorcycle, while the import of new motorcycles is still no problem (all is a bit more paperwork needed). I'm not sure if a private person is still allowed to import a new vehicle, as now-a-day the first thing they ask if we apply for an import license is our tax number...

[ThailandBert]

Your bike may have been imported into Thailand legally but without a green book and a number plate it is illegal to ride on the road. There is no ambiguity about this. If you have an accident on it you are in serious trouble.

I know of several people who have been relieved of their very nice expensive motorcycles by the police. I also know of several people who have ridden for years and never been bothered.

Would I risk losing a bike I loved and had paid a lot of money for NO.

Up to you as they say here.

There are plenty of very nice bikes all perfectly legal with books so why anyone would buy one without beats me ?

If getting a book was as easy as the people selling the bike always tells you it is why haven't they already done it and made the bike easier to sell and at a higher price ?

EXACTLY !

[dagling]

Police / Customs does NOT have the authority to confiscates your bike without the Green Book as long as you can provide Invoice and tax papers. This has clearly informed of a very high police man in Khon Kaen (who rides a big Harley by the way).

They can give you a fine for driving without license plates, nothing else. They can NOT confiscates the bike, I have been customs checked 2 times, once in Maha Sarakam and once in Khon Kaen. I showed them copy of Invoice and tax papers. I did not get fined for not having license plates, they just turned and walked on. Why? Because they can not do anything to you or your bike.

You get also registered insurance on a bike without number plates, they take only frame and engine numbers then you have insurance on your bike without the Green Book;-)

What then is the purpose to make a Greenbook of an imported motorcycle, if Greenbooken not 100% legal? From what I understand there is talk of replica Green Book, or is there opportunity to make a 100% legal Green Book?

[karlos]

I'm going to let Red Barron know about this, they could save millions every year doing the above....

[ThailandBert]

Dagling if you want to risk losing your ride because somebody has told you that you do not need a green book then that is your decision. Why would anyone have a big bike with a green book that costs a lot of money if they do not need one. We would all be riding round on them.

Of course they will take your money for the insurance. this is Thailand. Once you have an accident though then they simply tell you as the bike is not legally registered to be on the road the insurance is invalid.

They will also take your money for the insurance for a bike with a book and if you don't have a bike license they will not pay.

Believe me all it takes is a BIB to take a shine to your ride and no matter how many invoices and receipts you show him he can impound your bike. They do it all over for not having a valid tax disc. They impound the bike till you turn up at the police station with one. It happened to my friend last week. Without a book you cannot get the tax disc so yes they can impound your bike.

As I said it boils down to whether you want to risk it ?

I wouldn't but I know plenty that do !

[dagling]

I'm going to let Red Barron know about this, they could save millions every year doing the above....

Prove me wrong then Karlos, or a you calling me a lier? ;-)))

[jbrain]

Here we go for the umpteenth time on this forum.Every time the same pattern

- OP starts topic, with the QUESTION if it is legal to drive a bike on the road without registration book.

- A load of posters comment and advise the OP that it is NOT LEGAL to ride on the road without registration and that insurance will be void same as in every country in the world.After all insurance companies are no charities, so they will use every argument available to them to avoid paying out.

- OP comes on again and says that all posters are liars because IT IS LEGAL to ride without a legal registration and no legal institution has any right to confiscate a bike or deny paying out in case of accident.

AMEN

[karlos]

I'm going to let Red Barron know about this, they could save millions every year doing the above....

Prove me wrong then Karlos, or a you calling me a lier? ;-)))

Not at all, there's a right way and a Thai way of doing things.

If i wasn't meeting and taking Jonnie to change his tyres on his ER6 i would write a little more.

But i don't want to go off-topic, as most of what i have to say is just opinion and what i have heard 'officials' and fellow riders saying.

[taninthai]

Dagling if you want to risk losing your ride because somebody has told you that you do not need a green book then that is your decision. Why would anyone have a big bike with a green book that costs a lot of money if they do not need one. We would all be riding round on them.

Of course they will take your money for the insurance. this is Thailand. Once you have an accident though then they simply tell you as the bike is not legally registered to be on the road the insurance is invalid.

They will also take your money for the insurance for a bike with a book and if you don't have a bike license they will not pay.

Believe me all it takes is a BIB to take a shine to your ride and no matter how many invoices and receipts you show him he can impound your bike. They do it all over for not having a valid tax disc. They impound the bike till you turn up at the police station with one. It happened to my friend last week. Without a book you cannot get the tax disc so yes they can impound your bike.

As I said it boils down to whether you want to risk it ?

I wouldn't but I know plenty that do !

Yep there was a lovely yamaha r6 in the classifieds last week 200k great price but no book would have bought it on the spot for that price if it was legal.

[ThailandBert]

I'm going to let Red Barron know about this, they could save millions every year doing the above....

Prove me wrong then Karlos, or a you calling me a lier? ;-)))

I would say delusional ! If I remember reading one of your posts you stated I think that you didn't intend to get the book as you were just going to ride it around the wilds of Issan where the police simply turned a blind eye to it.

That to me rather defeats the point of having a cruiser if you can't jump on it and cruise down to the Hatyai bike weekend or the Phuket bike weekend for fear of losing it

As has been said thousands of times already

UP TO YOU !

bring it down to Samui for a ride and I will show you lots of impounded bikes Most of the police here riding big bikes cough, cough, acquired them free of charge shall we say

Edited October 23, 2012 by ThailandBert

[Theboy]

Errr sorry chaps but you can get insurance and its 100% legal - it is the Governemnt insurance (which is not worth the paper it is written on) only - Impossible to get 1st Class insurance

[Richard-BKK]

You're wrong, the revenue department, can impound anything they want – if they suspect tax is not paid they will look after your property for a while and because they do not work as efficient as we would like them to do this can sometimes take up to 6 months before an issue is resolved.

If you think the Thai police can do what ever they like, wait until you have an encounter with the Thai revenue department. My advice is be polite and friendly to a police officer when they stop you, when a they are accompanied by a revenue department officer be much more polite as together they have the legal power to take anything from you all is it just to piss you off...

One of the biggest mistakes is to think that revenue department officers are stupid, for instance if they ask you about your fancy exhaust muffler, great looking helmet, or your speedy motorcycle suit, even if they pretend that they would like one themself, they probably trying to figure out if you paid tax on it or bring it in by yourself.

A friend of my had a visit from the revenue department in his motorcycle shop and halve his stock was confiscated because the Thai supplier had not paid the right taxes... (He did not imported the products himself he bought them from a wholesaler, still the revenue department came and toke the stock).

[jbrain]

Errr sorry chaps but you can get insurance and its 100% legal - it is the Governemnt insurance (which is not worth the paper it is written on) only - Impossible to get 1st Class insurance

When I renew my tax, and first apply for the government insurance of course, the first thing the lady in the office asks me is a copy of my green book.Without that she has no idea who to issue the insurance to.

[ThailandBert]

last week I had to go pick up my friend, take him to the police station where the bike mechanic was called. he then to a rubbing of the engine number and frame number and filled in a form. cost 100 baht which included a 40 baht call out fee to go to the police station where my friends bike was impounded. I then had to drive halfway round the island to the transport department where he paid for his insurance and tax disc. I then had to drive back to the police station where he produced the said documents and they released his bike.

Or maybe I dreamt it all ?

So just how Mr Dagling could you resolve the same situation ?

They refused to release the bike till my friend produced the documents and he had even offered a few thousand Baht to be on his way to no avail ?

There were several Thai's there all doing the same thing so it isn't as if it was just hit the Farang scam.

They can and do impound / confiscate bikes on a regular basis.

[snowflake]

I honestly, I don't know the rules, but look at the country in general... Sure you can ride a bike with no plates, you just need a special Honda key for your very cheap Harley ( a bell should ring there)...

Why do cars and bikes need plates? Well, maybe to have a way of being able to track them, make sure who owns them, who rides them, who is responsible for them ( just in case it is stolen, have an accident, or do something criminal) the system is there, why do you think that you and your bike is outside the system? (A bell is ringing for me there)

Mr. Dangling, I have been in Thailand for 12 years now, I have ridden a bike for all that time... My best bike was the lovely zx12r, but with no book, sure I had a useless insurance, but guess how many BIB eyed it up over the years, I never left town, so my best friends dad knew the chief of police, not a problem, wait, they always say, NEVERMIND, NO PROBLEM, I think it is safe to say that Thais are not the best to claim responsibility... But boy they are good at blaming others when the shit hits the fan...

You come from Norway as I do, please let me think that you are not as dumb as I now think you are, you ask the question, you know the answer but you do not want to know the correct answer... Thailand is not the same all over, we can all tell stories of other people we know/knew that has had their bikes taken by different organisations and well have friends that still have their bikes...

Before you bought your Yamaha, you also raised this question, and I think you said that you would not buy a bike without a book, then you bought one... Now you are riding it, hopefully enjoying every minute... Just think for yourself, and I do mean think...

IS IT LEAGAL TO RIDE A BIKE WITHOUT IT BEING REGISTERED WITH THE TRANSPORT DEPARTMENT HERE IN THAILAND?

Answer; of course not, but that does not mean people are not doing it... Enjoy your bike, BUT don't complain here if/when someone takes it away from you, get your paperwork sorted, get it LEAGAL...

I like my Ninja, I have the green book, my name, I will renew my first class insurance soon, I pass police checkpoints without any worries, I can go anywhere I want... I have my shot in order now and it feels good...

[pauljones]

The new law has been in place now for many months now.

A friend (ex bike importer) who who seems to have connections stated that it is serious, no importation of complete bikes.

Maybe you can ask some of the owners of the 200+ unplated bikes that were seized by the police in CM almost 2 years ago?

That blitz probably netted them several Mill in fines and a few free Harleys.

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread comes to mind!

Buy a legal bike in this inflated market and sell back into the same inflated market yeah?

The police will enforce the law if they can personally benefit.

Farangs are especially at risk for abuse.

[wantan]

Dagling, if you really think the thai police is not allowed to execute the thai law than you are naive. What would happen in your home country if you continue to ride an unregistered bike? At some point they would take it away. And at another point you would go in prison AND lose your bike.

Sure they can take it away. What else should they do instead? Take money from you? They have to execute the law and stop you from riding. The only possible action to do achieve this for sure is to take away your bike. The only question is how big is the risk for you. Noone can tell you. You can get away with it forever or lose your bike today.

[dagling]

Ok, answer me on this then:

How to make a 100% legal Green Book on my bike?

[ThailandBert]

People selling bikes without a book will tell the buyer there is no problem to ride the bike as long as you have the import papers and that the police cannot take it off you.

The same as a real estate agent telling a Farang of course he can own the land and the house or he can have 30 + 30 + 30 Lease no problem. Just sign here.

Also never rely on knowing a policeman or other Thai official / mafia. When it comes down to the farng in trouble do you honestly think they are going to put their neck / job on the line to save your ass ?

EXACTLY.

As has been mentioned. you already know the answer to the question you ask. you just don't want to hear the answers you just want to be told the same as the guy who sold you the bike or your police friend.

I have several bikes. All with books in my name. I can and regularly do ride them anywhere I like.

If you are happy to ride your big cruiser round nakon nowhere please do. Be happy and no doubt you will be right up to the day you ride into a simple checkpoint just like my friend did where they are checking paperwork and the BIB is having a bad day.

[ThailandBert]

Ok, answer me on this then:

How to make a 100% legal Green Book on my bike?

80-100,000 Baht with no guarantee that you will ever get one. Sell it and buy a bike with a book.

Someone did say red baron can do it but again as above.

[JonnyF]

Ok, answer me on this then:

How to make a 100% legal Green Book on my bike?

Too late I'm afraid, it will fail emissions - that's why the importers sell them cheap with 'invoice only' and a vague promise.

You might be able to get a grey book if you can find a similar (and registered) bike that's been crashed.

[Richard-BKK]

According to the current rules, as published in the Royal Thai Government Gazette, and republished by several commercial newspaper including all the Thai newspapers and the Bangkokpost and The Nation (see http://www.nationmul...s-30180164.html). You cannot import or register a imported second hand motorcycle. After a moment of panic, the rule seems to be relaxed. This happens often in Thailand, to give companies and citizens time to adjust to the new rules, it's therefore for me not unlikely that from the New Year the government is pulling all strings and put this new law into power full force...

And nobody can say we didn't know...

Edited October 23, 2012 by Richard-BKK

[seedy]

As of 1 Sept 2012, you can not import second hand motorcycles into Thailand.

And there are 10's of thousands of used bikes imported before this date waiting for a book.

In some cases since last year.

[Richard-BKK]

The whole market is currently a mess, imagine this Mr. X imported a new motorcycle, but did not do the registration for the motorcycle, and sold the motorcycle to Mr. A. Is this now a new imported motorcycle or a secondhand imported motorcycle?

Also a lot of secondhand motorcycles imported come without import license, before that was not a real problem as you needed to pay around 1,000 THB as a penalty for not having an import license, something that most motorcycle traders where willing to pay as it was often a bureaucratic nightmare to get an import license, also I could take up to a month or even longer before an import license was issued... So many imported the secondhand motorcycle without the needed import license and paid the fine..

For many so called invoice motorcycles, for which an import license was never officially issued, and did not applied for registration right away. The receipt, which proves that the fine for not having a valid import license was paid, is often missing. Making it often very very difficult to register a motorcycle even if it was imported when it was legal to import a secondhand motorcycle as the Thai Department of Land Transport now-a-day want to see a copy of the import license (even if the motorcycle was forinstance imported 2 years ago)...