Favorite Health Food Stores In Chiang Mai?

[barefoot1988]

If I had a baht for every Thai I saw eating at McDonalds, KFC, or for every young fat Thai kid I saw coming out slurping on a cone from Dairy Queen or Swenson's, I'd be richer than Warren Buffett.

for god sake, what a grossly overstatement. that is 1394 billions of people, you will have to see the entire population of humans 200 times to get that amount

[Ulysses G.]

Most Thais don't eat much Western fast food, but many Thais are becoming overweight and many Thais are getting diabetes. A lot of Thai food is carbs fried in fat with added sugar. Blaming this phenomenon on the West is a politically correct myth.

Dead wrong on so many counts!

Au contraire. A very small percentage of Thais eat Western fast food more than a few times a year. Claiming that is the main reason that Thais are getting fat is ridiculous.

Baskin Robbins and lots of other ice cream stores were in Hanoi when I lived there 15 years ago and very few foreigners were eating there. It was mostly Vietnamese people. KFC, Burger King, Subway, Dominos, and Carl’s Jr are all in Vietnam, but just like here, most Vietnamese eat there infrequently.

[butterisbetter]

Most Thais don't eat much Western fast food, but many Thais are becoming overweight and many Thais are getting diabetes. A lot of Thai food is carbs fried in fat with added sugar. Blaming this phenomenon on the West is a politically correct myth.

Dead wrong on so many counts! If the Thais "don't eat much Western fast food" who are all those Thais I've seen in McDonald's, Kentucky Fried Chicken (far more popular in Thailand than in most western countries), Swenson's etc.? Impersonators? Give us all a break. All you have to do is stroll over to the closest KFC and see who's eating there. I'd venture to say that 80% or more of their customers are Thais, especially young ones. If I had a baht for every Thai I saw eating at McDonalds, KFC, or for every young fat Thai kid I saw coming out slurping on a cone from Dairy Queen or Swenson's, I'd be richer than Warren Buffett. Or talk to Thais about the problem of fat children, in particular, and you will find they almost always say it never was like that in the past and it is because these children are addicted to fat, Western foods.

Thai food has ALWAYS had sugar added to many dishes (stir fry; curry etc.) and the "carbs" you're complaining about come only from rice, a staple, because most everything else in Thai food is vegetable or meat. Thai food is pretty much unchanged over the years so it is not something new: hence, the timing does not explain the rise in the past two decades of fat Thais or fit in with your explanation at all. Fast food does and it is the answer. Have a look at the fast food stores and see how many fat Thai people, especially young ones, are hooked on this junk food. It is addictive! Vietnam, by way of contrast, has far fewer western style fast food places and they are not as popular as fast food is in Thailand (to some extent because the Viets cannot afford, by and large, the high prices of the fast food chains). For many years, McDonald's and other such chains (aside from KFC) were forbidden in Vietnam (I'm not sure if they are allowed even now).

While it’s true that the KFCs and the McDonalds are crowded with Thai people, there aren’t that many outlets in Thailand and most of them are where people with money would go. I suspect that for most Thais – given their income – KFC and McDonald’s are for special occasions only.

There could be lots of other reasons Thai kids are getting heavier . Maybe they are less active than before. The internet, video and mobile phone games keep them engrossed and internet.

Or it may be that Thais are just eading more sedentary lives.

While it’s true that Thai food always had lots of sugar and calories, people back then probably ate a lot more rice and a lot less of the main courses.

Any and all of these examples could just be a case of confirmation bias. We tend to see what will confirm our prejudices.

What is needed are large scale longitudinal studies. As is now the case with studies on the effects of sodium consumption on mortality. As UG showed in his citation of an article from Scientific American, the notion that salt causes hypertension is, at best, highly oversimplified. The connection, if there is any, is a weak one. But that took lots of studies to establish.

[TheVicar]

Most Thais don't eat much Western fast food, but many Thais are becoming overweight and many Thais are getting diabetes. A lot of Thai food is carbs fried in fat with added sugar. Blaming this phenomenon on the West is a politically correct myth.

Dead wrong on so many counts! If the Thais "don't eat much Western fast food" who are all those Thais I've seen in McDonald's, Kentucky Fried Chicken (far more popular in Thailand than in most western countries), Swenson's etc.? Impersonators? Give us all a break. All you have to do is stroll over to the closest KFC and see who's eating there. I'd venture to say that 80% or more of their customers are Thais, especially young ones. If I had a baht for every Thai I saw eating at McDonalds, KFC, or for every young fat Thai kid I saw coming out slurping on a cone from Dairy Queen or Swenson's, I'd be richer than Warren Buffett. Or talk to Thais about the problem of fat children, in particular, and you will find they almost always say it never was like that in the past and it is because these children are addicted to fat, Western foods.

Thai food has ALWAYS had sugar added to many dishes (stir fry; curry etc.) and the "carbs" you're complaining about come only from rice, a staple, because most everything else in Thai food is vegetable or meat. Thai food is pretty much unchanged over the years so it is not something new: hence, the timing does not explain the rise in the past two decades of fat Thais or fit in with your explanation at all. Fast food does and it is the answer. Have a look at the fast food stores and see how many fat Thai people, especially young ones, are hooked on this junk food. It is addictive! Vietnam, by way of contrast, has far fewer western style fast food places and they are not as popular as fast food is in Thailand (to some extent because the Viets cannot afford, by and large, the high prices of the fast food chains). For many years, McDonald's and other such chains (aside from KFC) were forbidden in Vietnam (I'm not sure if they are allowed even now).

While it’s true that the KFCs and the McDonalds are crowded with Thai people, there aren’t that many outlets in Thailand and most of them are where people with money would go. I suspect that for most Thais – given their income – KFC and McDonald’s are for special occasions only.

There could be lots of other reasons Thai kids are getting heavier . Maybe they are less active than before. The internet, video and mobile phone games keep them engrossed and internet.

Or it may be that Thais are just eading more sedentary lives.

While it’s true that Thai food always had lots of sugar and calories, people back then probably ate a lot more rice and a lot less of the main courses.

Any and all of these examples could just be a case of confirmation bias. We tend to see what will confirm our prejudices.

What is needed are large scale longitudinal studies. As is now the case with studies on the effects of sodium consumption on mortality. As UG showed in his citation of an article from Scientific American, the notion that salt causes hypertension is, at best, highly oversimplified. The connection, if there is any, is a weak one. But that took lots of studies to establish.

"While it’s true that the KFCs and the McDonalds are crowded with Thai people, there aren’t that many outlets in Thailand... ."

Wow! Such nonsense. Every major shopping center in Thailand is filled with both of these outlets and several more (usually a Swensens, a DQ etc, Pizza Hut, Burger King, Haagen Daaz etc..). And the very large ones have multiple outlets of each chain. Where have you been living, dude? Go to Bangkok and you will see 3 or 4 McDonald's in almost every major shopping center and there are hundreds of them. Bangkok has about 15 million people, by the way. Here in CM it is no exception; the airport Central Plaza has McDonalds, KFC, Swensens, DQ, Pizza Hut and more. And they are ALL FULL OF THAI people. At least 80%. KFC is more popular here than it is in the USA, ditto with DQ. Then there are the "stand alone" stores too, outside of the shopping centers and CM has its share of them too. Sadly, even a lot of Thai upscale hospitals have fast food stores in them!

KFC (owned by Yum! Brands, Inc.) has more than 500 stores in 74 provinces in Thailand! Source: https://www.amchamth...asp?CorpID=1132

I don't know the number of McDonalds in Thailand, but I would guess it is at least as big as KFC. So there are thousands of these fast food joints spread throughout the country and their growth coincides perfectly with the growth in obesity of the Thai people. That's called "correlation" in statistics. Your comments about Thai food (with people eating more rice back in the old days) also make little sense since UG was complaining about the carbs in Thai food as well as the sugar (carbs would come from the rice).

And it's not only Thais who are getting fat on fast food. Look at the wide bodies of the farangs who eat at those places, and who are addicted to them. Fat fast food is addictive, just like cigarettes are. "Upsizing" is not something you find in Thai restaurants; it is a concept introduced by these western fast food outlets and it is very harmful; I believe NYC has finally outlawed it, or at least jumbo portions of sweet drinks loaded with calories. And there are things like the sweet "Big Gulp" (full of calories) sold by yet another kind of fast food purveyor that is all over Thailand: 7-11.

By the way, there were 6,300 7-11 stores in Thailand in 2011! Have you ever stood at line in one of these? You'll be surrounded by young (mostly fat and pimply) Thais buying candy bars, junk hot dogs, junk sugary drinks, cookies, cake etc.

Source: http://en.wikipedia....Eleven#Thailand

Edited December 5, 2012 by TheVicar

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

How about a walk thru a normal Thai market. They fry just about everything in unstable oils.

Fried rice, fried noodles, fried bananas, fried fish, chicken, pork etc.

Sugary drinks.

Endless carbs

KFC would sell organic salad and wheatgrass shots if consumers wanted it.

Meanwhile the health food stores are nearly deserted dust covered ghost towns. To be fair though a lot of health food stores are infected with the counterproductive eat more plant carb mentality. Really behind the health curve.

[TheVicar]

How about a walk thru a normal Thai market. They fry just about everything in unstable oils.

Fried rice, fried noodles, fried bananas, fried fish, chicken, pork etc.

Sugary drinks.

Endless carbs

KFC would sell organic salad and wheatgrass shots if consumers wanted it.

Meanwhile the health food stores are nearly deserted dust covered ghost towns. To be fair though a lot of health food stores are infected with the counterproductive eat more plant carb mentality. Really behind the health curve.

"Normal Thai markets" are also full of healthy fresh fruit and vegetables. And how many fruit stands have you probably walked by in Thailand where fresh fruit is sold in small plastic bags for a cheap price? Contrast that with the West where bakeries are far more prevalent (I can recall that bakeries in Thailand were not very plentiful 22 years ago when I came here; now they are everywhere). I completely agree with you about the unhealthy nature of the products fried in what is most likely high saturated fats (probably palm oil) which have been used again and again. But the traditional Thai diet was a very healthy one compared to the food on offer at fast food outlets in which the food is also cooked in unhealthy fats and also has very high sugar/salt levels. It is a recipe for obesity and diabetes and heart problems.

The Thai traditional diet has been completely upset by the introduction and wonderful marketing of the Western fast food chains, especially amongst young people who are most susceptible to Western marketing techniques. There is a kind of cultural imperialism at work in food too. Ask any cook, and they will tell you that sweeter and saltier foods sell better than others. The big western fast food corporations know that (Pepsi is especially sweet in Thailand) and take advantage of it. I've actually had french fries at McDonald's outlets in Thailand that are so salt laden that I could not eat them; they do that intentionally so customers buy more drinks. I also lived in Vietnam (in HCMC which is much bigger than Hanoi); there were not nearly as many western fast food outlets there as in Thailand. You can see by the numbers I provided for Thailand that the fast food outlets have completely riddled Thailand. Maybe only Singapore in SEAsia has as many per capita and the children there too have grown not only fat but obese. The Singaporean military has to have special training for many of the new recruits who are mostly overweight. Again, there is a direct and strong correlation with the intro of fast food into these cultures and the growth of obesity and severe health problems that are directly related like heart problems, hypertension and diabetes. This is also what is behind the epidemic of obesity and diabetes type 2 in the West.

Edited December 5, 2012 by TheVicar

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Well if your eating a lot of sweet fruit or starchy carbs and you think its healthy you might want to monitor your blood triglycerides to get a reality check.

The old style Thai's are often missing their teeth. Ever wonder why? They eat a lot of plant sugar without constant trips to the dentist. Constant inflammation from raised insulin. Want to screw up your health? screw up your dental health.

But anyway I don't want to get into a macronutrient jihad.

Riddle me this Batman... Why the heck are the scant health food stores deserted and barely turning over product?

[butterisbetter]

How about a walk thru a normal Thai market. They fry just about everything in unstable oils.

Fried rice, fried noodles, fried bananas, fried fish, chicken, pork etc.

Sugary drinks.

Endless carbs

KFC would sell organic salad and wheatgrass shots if consumers wanted it.

Meanwhile the health food stores are nearly deserted dust covered ghost towns. To be fair though a lot of health food stores are infected with the counterproductive eat more plant carb mentality. Really behind the health curve.

"Normal Thai markets" are also full of healthy fresh fruit and vegetables. And how many fruit stands have you probably walked by in Thailand where fresh fruit is sold in small plastic bags for a cheap price? Contrast that with the West where bakeries are far more prevalent (I can recall that bakeries in Thailand were not very plentiful 22 years ago when I came here; now they are everywhere). I completely agree with you about the unhealthy nature of the products fried in what is most likely high saturated fats (probably palm oil) which have been used again and again. But the traditional Thai diet was a very healthy one compared to the food on offer at fast food outlets in which the food is also cooked in unhealthy fats and also has very high sugar/salt levels. It is a recipe for obesity and diabetes and heart problems.

The Thai traditional diet has been completely upset by the introduction and wonderful marketing of the Western fast food chains, especially amongst young people who are most susceptible to Western marketing techniques. There is a kind of cultural imperialism at work in food too. Ask any cook, and they will tell you that sweeter and saltier foods sell better than others. The big western fast food corporations know that (Pepsi is especially sweet in Thailand) and take advantage of it. I've actually had french fries at McDonald's outlets in Thailand that are so salt laden that I could not eat them; they do that intentionally so customers buy more drinks. I also lived in Vietnam (in HCMC which is much bigger than Hanoi); there were not nearly as many western fast food outlets there as in Thailand. You can see by the numbers I provided for Thailand that the fast food outlets have completely riddled Thailand. Maybe only Singapore in SEAsia has as many per capita and the children there too have grown not only fat but obese. The Singaporean military has to have special training for many of the new recruits who are mostly overweight. Again, there is a direct and strong correlation with the intro of fast food into these cultures and the growth of obesity and severe health problems that are directly related like heart problems, hypertension and diabetes. This is also what is behind the epidemic of obesity and diabetes type 2 in the West.

Again, this is just an assertion. As I pointed out in my previous post, there could be multiple reasons why obesity is a growing problem in Thailand. Singling out just one cause is a clear case of perceptual set where you see what you are prepared to see and ignore what doesn't jibe with your preconceptions. The same thing happened with hypertension which for over a century has been blamed on excessive salt consumption but without any strong proof. It appears that that belief has been pretty thoroughly debunked. It's okay to have beliefs, but don't confuse them with facts.

[Ulysses G.]

It's okay to have beliefs, but don't confuse them with facts.

[femi fan]

Coke Zero and Pepsi Max have no sugar in them. Shows the knowledge of those western scientists.

If it is all the fault of western influence just do what the Thais did before the western foods. They shopped at their markets which are still here. They did not go to health food stores,

In fact They did not have health food stores for special foods.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Coke zero and the likes are chock full of high fructose corn syrup, as are most american foods. This is far worse than normal refined sugar. Much worse. The health of the americans has been ruined by this hfcs. All cokes and pepsis and soda drinks are causing rampant problems for the health of the drinkers of it.

[femi fan]

Health food shops don't rely upon marketing. Those that go to them have woken up to what foods are bad for you.

Thais are getting much fatter, and compared to 20 years ago there are so many more fat people. I reckon a big part of this is the proliferation of 7/11s and all the garbage they sell.

It's well know these days that the bad foods make people sedentary, not the other way round.

Hanoi, compared to chiang mai, has one kfc, and no other fast food joints. I observed all the young folk sitting on low stools drinking local drinks and eating sunflower seeds in places where they gathered to socialise. I hardly saw any of them drinking the cokes and stuff, which seriously make people fat.

Thai people are getting fat off western food. Yes, they use sugar in their foods, and shit oil, but they've always done that. There's only one source for the blame, and that's western shit. It's the same for everyone if they drink cokes and eat processed foods. Welcome to the world of 7/11, mcDs and all that other rubbish.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Coke Zero and Pepsi Max have no sugar in them. Shows the knowledge of those western scientists.

If it is all the fault of western influence just do what the Thais did before the western foods. They shopped at their markets which are still here. They did not go to health food stores,

In fact They did not have health food stores for special foods.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Coke zero and the likes are chock full of high fructose corn syrup, as are most american foods. This is far worse than normal refined sugar. Much worse. The health of the americans has been ruined by this hfcs. All cokes and pepsis and soda drinks are causing rampant problems for the health of the drinkers of it.

Okay Coke Zero has no sugars in it like HFCS. It's zero calories hence the name. Fructose sugars have plenty of calories.

Coke Zero uses a artificial sweetener sodium cyclamate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola_Zero

Some of these artificial sweeteners are really controversial and potentially toxic. I personally would avoid them unless unless your giving up something much worse like russian roulette or huffing gasoline.

There are some sweeteners that are safer like sugar alcohols such as Maltitol. When a sugar is dehydrated slightly such as in a sun ripened or sun dried fruit its starts to lose its H20 bonds and changes from a sugar to different molecule. Its super sweet given the calories.

Who knows the long term repercussions but does dodge insulin load for a given sweet tasting diet.

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/whattoeat/a/sugaralcohols.htm

[TheVicar]

Most Thais don't eat much Western fast food, but many Thais are becoming overweight and many Thais are getting diabetes. A lot of Thai food is carbs fried in fat with added sugar. Blaming this phenomenon on the West is a politically correct myth.

Dead wrong on so many counts! If the Thais "don't eat much Western fast food" who are all those Thais I've seen in McDonald's, Kentucky Fried Chicken (far more popular in Thailand than in most western countries), Swenson's etc.? Impersonators? Give us all a break. All you have to do is stroll over to the closest KFC and see who's eating there. I'd venture to say that 80% or more of their customers are Thais, especially young ones. If I had a baht for every Thai I saw eating at McDonalds, KFC, or for every young fat Thai kid I saw coming out slurping on a cone from Dairy Queen or Swenson's, I'd be richer than Warren Buffett. Or talk to Thais about the problem of fat children, in particular, and you will find they almost always say it never was like that in the past and it is because these children are addicted to fat, Western foods.

Thai food has ALWAYS had sugar added to many dishes (stir fry; curry etc.) and the "carbs" you're complaining about come only from rice, a staple, because most everything else in Thai food is vegetable or meat. Thai food is pretty much unchanged over the years so it is not something new: hence, the timing does not explain the rise in the past two decades of fat Thais or fit in with your explanation at all. Fast food does and it is the answer. Have a look at the fast food stores and see how many fat Thai people, especially young ones, are hooked on this junk food. It is addictive! Vietnam, by way of contrast, has far fewer western style fast food places and they are not as popular as fast food is in Thailand (to some extent because the Viets cannot afford, by and large, the high prices of the fast food chains). For many years, McDonald's and other such chains (aside from KFC) were forbidden in Vietnam (I'm not sure if they are allowed even now).

Funny man.

Stop hanging around the western Malls and hang around the Thai markets.

Most Thai towns don't have any of these fast food outlets and the ones that do are inconsequential to the amount of people in the city.

You want every one to believe there is a Dairy Queen, McDonald's, Swensons. Burger King and other fast food outlets on every block. Reality is there isn't and they are few and generally far between.

Thais do not work as hard as they used to and they eat more than they used to.

Factually, wrong. You may be entitled to your own opinions but manufacturing facts for your fake view of reality you are not. More than 6,300 7-11s in Thailand (in 2011) ALL selling junk food and sweet, sweet drinks. Just about every neighborhood (let alone city) has a couple of 7-11s, all full of Thai customers munching and drinking unhealthy fast food. There must be at least 7-8 near CMU's gates alone! And of course there are thousands of "copy cat" 7-11 stores all over Thailand, also selling bad and unhealthy junk food.

More than 500 KFCs in 74 (that's seventy-four) Thai provinces. Ditto for McDonald's. Multiple fast food outlets in leading Thai hospitals. Multiple fast food outlets in every airport in Thailand. Some of the big shopping centers in Bangkok have 3 or 4 McDonalds and KFC outlets! Go to the 2 biggest malls in CM (like the Thais do every day) and you will find multiple fast food outlets including KFC, McDonald's, Pizza Hut, The Pizza Company, DQ, the donut shops, Swensens and more! Ditto for every Big C, Lotus in town. These huge malls act as magnets for customers. Their parking lots are full of motorcycles and vehicles, the vast majority being Thais. Where you been to have missed all this? See my post above (#94) that has more stats and sources backing them up. You present assertions, I present facts.

Your theme song must be "Don't get around much anymore".

Edited December 5, 2012 by TheVicar

[TheVicar]

Here are some more facts (not wrong impressions) about fast food in Thailand:

1. "By the end of 2009, Mister Donut operated more than 200 outlets covering the entire country and continues to expand more outlets in the future."

2. "Currently, KFC holds the biggest share in the fast food restaurant chain’s market in Thailand. It can be said that these days, KFC has become a part of Thai people’s everyday life..."

3. Auntie Annes has more than 85 outlets in Thailand.

Source for above: http://www.crg.co.th/cooperate/en/brand/index.html

AND:

4. "CP All continues to lead chained fast food sales in Thailand, with 7-Eleven accounting for 53% of value sales in 2010. The company has expanded aggressively, opening an average of 450 stores per year, and aims to reach 7,000 stores by 2013..."

5. "Fast food (in Thailand) will continue to record healthy growth over the forecast period, with the area having a projected forecast period constant value CAGR of 8%. Leading chained players will likely engage in aggressive outlet expansion, price promotions, advertising, CRM campaigns, menu innovations and additional services. Small chained stores and independent stores will struggle to compete as strong branding is a key factor for consumers when choosing fast food products."

Source for above: http://www.euromonitor.com/fast-food-in-thailand/report

AND:

AND:

A&W PLANS 100 OUTLETS IN 4 YEARS

KUB Malaysia Berhad, the licensee of A&W fast-food restaurants in Thailand and Malaysia, is ramping up its business in this country by spending one billion baht to reach 100 outlets.

A&W has been present in Thailand since 1983. KUB has had the franchise for the past 10 years.

Haniza Ros Nasaruddin, the company's general manager for business development, said it would add another 59 A&W restaurants to the existing 41 now in Thailand by 2015. Annual turnover is forecast to triple to one billion baht by the same year.

[Ulysses G.]

.

Hanoi, compared to chiang mai, has one kfc, and no other fast food joints.

Wrong again. There are 7 KFCs in Hanoi and over 100 in Vietnam. There are Pizza Hut, Baskin Robbins and all kinds of other ice cream outlets. There are also many Jollibee and Lotteria outlets all over Vietnam with burgers and fried chicken, etc. Vietnamese eat plenty of fast food, but only occasionally - just like the Thais.

7/11 sells plenty of Thai snacks as well as Western ones and it is not a fast food restaurant, but pointing out a few hundred Western fast food places in a country of over 66 MILLION people and blaming them because Thais are getting fatter is just plain delusional. They are fatter because they can afford more of their own food and richer dishes and do not have to work as hard as they did when so many were tending to rice fields.

By the way, both the Vietnamese and Thais ate fried chicken long before KFC got here. You can't blame that on the West.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[hellodolly]

Most Thais don't eat much Western fast food, but many Thais are becoming overweight and many Thais are getting diabetes. A lot of Thai food is carbs fried in fat with added sugar. Blaming this phenomenon on the West is a politically correct myth.

Dead wrong on so many counts! If the Thais "don't eat much Western fast food" who are all those Thais I've seen in McDonald's, Kentucky Fried Chicken (far more popular in Thailand than in most western countries), Swenson's etc.? Impersonators? Give us all a break. All you have to do is stroll over to the closest KFC and see who's eating there. I'd venture to say that 80% or more of their customers are Thais, especially young ones. If I had a baht for every Thai I saw eating at McDonalds, KFC, or for every young fat Thai kid I saw coming out slurping on a cone from Dairy Queen or Swenson's, I'd be richer than Warren Buffett. Or talk to Thais about the problem of fat children, in particular, and you will find they almost always say it never was like that in the past and it is because these children are addicted to fat, Western foods.

Thai food has ALWAYS had sugar added to many dishes (stir fry; curry etc.) and the "carbs" you're complaining about come only from rice, a staple, because most everything else in Thai food is vegetable or meat. Thai food is pretty much unchanged over the years so it is not something new: hence, the timing does not explain the rise in the past two decades of fat Thais or fit in with your explanation at all. Fast food does and it is the answer. Have a look at the fast food stores and see how many fat Thai people, especially young ones, are hooked on this junk food. It is addictive! Vietnam, by way of contrast, has far fewer western style fast food places and they are not as popular as fast food is in Thailand (to some extent because the Viets cannot afford, by and large, the high prices of the fast food chains). For many years, McDonald's and other such chains (aside from KFC) were forbidden in Vietnam (I'm not sure if they are allowed even now).

Funny man.

Stop hanging around the western Malls and hang around the Thai markets.

Most Thai towns don't have any of these fast food outlets and the ones that do are inconsequential to the amount of people in the city.

You want every one to believe there is a Dairy Queen, McDonald's, Swensons. Burger King and other fast food outlets on every block. Reality is there isn't and they are few and generally far between.

Thais do not work as hard as they used to and they eat more than they used to.

Factually, wrong. You may be entitled to your own opinions but manufacturing facts for your fake view of reality you are not. More than 6,300 7-11s in Thailand (in 2011) ALL selling junk food and sweet, sweet drinks. Just about every neighborhood (let alone city) has a couple of 7-11s, all full of Thai customers munching and drinking unhealthy fast food. There must be at least 7-8 near CMU's gates alone! And of course there are thousands of "copy cat" 7-11 stores all over Thailand, also selling bad and unhealthy junk food.

More than 500 KFCs in 74 (that's seventy-four) Thai provinces. Ditto for McDonald's. Multiple fast food outlets in leading Thai hospitals. Multiple fast food outlets in every airport in Thailand. Some of the big shopping centers in Bangkok have 3 or 4 McDonalds and KFC outlets! Go to the 2 biggest malls in CM (like the Thais do every day) and you will find multiple fast food outlets including KFC, McDonald's, Pizza Hut, The Pizza Company, DQ, the donut shops, Swensens and more! Ditto for every Big C, Lotus in town. These huge malls act as magnets for customers. Their parking lots are full of motorcycles and vehicles, the vast majority being Thais. Where you been to have missed all this? See my post above (#94) that has more stats and sources backing them up. You present assertions, I present facts.

Your theme song must be "Don't get around much anymore".

No I said quit hanging around the shopping malls and tourist areas. I have no facts to back it up but using your figures I doubt if you could find one of each in every city or village you mention. Maybe 7/11s but I have been in villages where if they had a 7/11 it would have been equal to having a Rimping market here in Chiang Mai.

[uptheos]

A&W PLANS 100 OUTLETS IN 4 YEARS

Aaaargh.....not that mouthwash stuff they call root beer!

[hellodolly]

.

Hanoi, compared to chiang mai, has one kfc, and no other fast food joints.

Wrong again. There are 7 KFCs in Hanoi and over 100 in Vietnam. There are Pizza Hut, Baskin Robbins and all kinds of other ice cream outlets. There are also many Jollibee and Lotteria outlets all over Vietnam with burgers and fried chicken, etc. Vietnamese eat plenty of fast food, but only occasionally - just like the Thais.

7/11 sells plenty of Thai snacks as well as Western ones and it is not a fast food restaurant, but pointing out a few hundred Western fast food places in a country of over 66 MILLION people and blaming them because Thais are getting fatter is just plain delusional. They are fatter because they can afford more of their own food and richer dishes and do not have to work as hard as they did when so many were tending to rice fields.

By the way, both the Vietnamese and Thais ate fried chicken long before KFC got here. You can't blame that on the West.

Reality Thank you. As you mentioned a lot of the sales in 7/11 is Thai food. I wonder if certain people find problems with the water they sell in 7/11s or it seems as though there is more alcohol sold in them.

They also like to quote facts for supposedly western fat producing sourcess for big cities ignoring the smaller ones and the villages. They put it out like every single item in these outlets is a fat producing source.

As you say they overlook the fact that Thais have more money to spend and do not have to work as hard as they did 20 years ago.

On a closing note look up Pepsi Max they use a different formula in different countries,

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

A lot of this reasoning doesn't add up.

Take a stroll thru Talad Tanin. Except for a couple of bottles of coconut oil for sale or seasonally available Avocado's there aren't any healthy fats to be had. Eggs are decent if cooked properly but most are overcooked and sitting around oxidizing.

Healthy fats should be in the range of 35 to 50% of a healthy diets calories. When consuming unstable or damaged fats then resulting cell construction is weak and the cells often rupture and thats is what they are talking about with inflammatory fats.

These poor fat choices have nothing to do with western influence.

Where is all this western influence when it comes to health food stores? In the US a large 'Whole Foods' outlet is bustling and I would wager a large Whole Foods does more business than all the health stores in Thailand combined.

Edited December 6, 2012 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[butterisbetter]

Here are some more facts (not wrong impressions) about fast food in Thailand:

1. "By the end of 2009, Mister Donut operated more than 200 outlets covering the entire country and continues to expand more outlets in the future."

2. "Currently, KFC holds the biggest share in the fast food restaurant chain’s market in Thailand. It can be said that these days, KFC has become a part of Thai people’s everyday life..."

3. Auntie Annes has more than 85 outlets in Thailand.

Source for above: http://www.crg.co.th/cooperate/en/brand/index.html

AND:

4. "CP All continues to lead chained fast food sales in Thailand, with 7-Eleven accounting for 53% of value sales in 2010. The company has expanded aggressively, opening an average of 450 stores per year, and aims to reach 7,000 stores by 2013..."

5. "Fast food (in Thailand) will continue to record healthy growth over the forecast period, with the area having a projected forecast period constant value CAGR of 8%. Leading chained players will likely engage in aggressive outlet expansion, price promotions, advertising, CRM campaigns, menu innovations and additional services. Small chained stores and independent stores will struggle to compete as strong branding is a key factor for consumers when choosing fast food products."

Source for above: http://www.euromonitor.com/fast-food-in-thailand/report

AND:

AND:

A&W PLANS 100 OUTLETS IN 4 YEARS

KUB Malaysia Berhad, the licensee of A&W fast-food restaurants in Thailand and Malaysia, is ramping up its business in this country by spending one billion baht to reach 100 outlets.

A&W has been present in Thailand since 1983. KUB has had the franchise for the past 10 years.

Haniza Ros Nasaruddin, the company's general manager for business development, said it would add another 59 A&W restaurants to the existing 41 now in Thailand by 2015. Annual turnover is forecast to triple to one billion baht by the same year.

As I recall, the question at hand is whether the growing problem of obesity in Thailand, is due in whole, or in part, to the consumption of Western fast food. Nothing you have cited has established any proof of this. It may well be that Western fast food outlets are largely responsible for this problem. Most likely there are multiple causes for this problem all relating to the changing way Thais now live. But I don't have any proof of that. It's just a notion of mine. I know the difference between notions and facts. Some others seem to have a problem with making this distinction.

[TheVicar]

Here are some more facts (not wrong impressions) about fast food in Thailand:

1. "By the end of 2009, Mister Donut operated more than 200 outlets covering the entire country and continues to expand more outlets in the future."

2. "Currently, KFC holds the biggest share in the fast food restaurant chain’s market in Thailand. It can be said that these days, KFC has become a part of Thai people’s everyday life..."

3. Auntie Annes has more than 85 outlets in Thailand.

Source for above: http://www.crg.co.th...rand/index.html

AND:

4. "CP All continues to lead chained fast food sales in Thailand, with 7-Eleven accounting for 53% of value sales in 2010. The company has expanded aggressively, opening an average of 450 stores per year, and aims to reach 7,000 stores by 2013..."

5. "Fast food (in Thailand) will continue to record healthy growth over the forecast period, with the area having a projected forecast period constant value CAGR of 8%. Leading chained players will likely engage in aggressive outlet expansion, price promotions, advertising, CRM campaigns, menu innovations and additional services. Small chained stores and independent stores will struggle to compete as strong branding is a key factor for consumers when choosing fast food products."

Source for above: http://www.euromonit...thailand/report

AND:

AND:

A&W PLANS 100 OUTLETS IN 4 YEARS

KUB Malaysia Berhad, the licensee of A&W fast-food restaurants in Thailand and Malaysia, is ramping up its business in this country by spending one billion baht to reach 100 outlets.

A&W has been present in Thailand since 1983. KUB has had the franchise for the past 10 years.

Haniza Ros Nasaruddin, the company's general manager for business development, said it would add another 59 A&W restaurants to the existing 41 now in Thailand by 2015. Annual turnover is forecast to triple to one billion baht by the same year.

As I recall, the question at hand is whether the growing problem of obesity in Thailand, is due in whole, or in part, to the consumption of Western fast food. Nothing you have cited has established any proof of this. It may well be that Western fast food outlets are largely responsible for this problem. Most likely there are multiple causes for this problem all relating to the changing way Thais now live. But I don't have any proof of that. It's just a notion of mine. I know the difference between notions and facts. Some others seem to have a problem with making this distinction.

I'm not sure there was a "question at hand". My posts above were in response to other posters here claiming that 1) not many Thais eat out in fast food places (disproved above; the fast food outlets know the Thais are their target group and form a huge majority of their customers); and 2) there are not so many fast food places in Thailand (an unbelievable claim, as the stats I've shown above prove).

I fully agree with you that there are likely multiple causes for obesity. But diet (a healthy diet) is the starting point. That was reinforced just today by a new study that followed 31,546 people in 14 countries. The study extended for more than 5 years. Their conclusion: people who ate more fruits and vegetables had fewer heart attacks and related problems. Here is what the study said about salt: "Instead of salt at the table, add an herb or spice for seasoning." Interestingly, they also concluded that health benefits from a healthy diet can occur even after a person has a bad health history. “Often people have old habits of eating certain ways and think, ‘what is the use of change?’” says Ginn, of the University of Maryland Center for Diabetes and Endocrinology. “But this study shows even changing at a later age can have an impact.” Source: http://www.webmd.com...-attacks?page=2

But getting back to your point, which is a good one, health problems like obesity/heart disease/diabetes likely have multiple causes. First, diet. Second, insufficient amount of exercise. Third, genetic makeup. People can control and modify the first two, but not the latter.

Edited December 6, 2012 by TheVicar

[Ulysses G.]

No one claimed than Thais do not eat in Western fast food outlets. The argument was about Western fast food being the cause of obesity in Thailand. Most posters seem to agree that it is not.

[femi fan]

Where is all this western influence when it comes to health food stores? In the US a large 'Whole Foods' outlet is bustling and I would wager a large Whole Foods does more business than all the health stores in Thailand combined.

Not that many years ago in england health stores didn't exist. Even now they're not that common, but demand is increasing. Health food shops only really come into the picture if the standard diet has become unhealthy. If one's normal diet is healthy enough, then why bother with health food shops?

It's surely about demand leading to supply. Chiang mai has a large demand and has a decent supply of health foods shops, mostly because of the farangs who come to live here, and who come here travelling.

But now that thailand has embraced the western medicines and is embracing the worst of the western diet, more obesity is the outcome and more illness is the outcome. When it all starts to go wrong, health food shops appear for those who have become aware of the dangers of western processed foods, and western approaches to farming which is chuck billions of tonnes of chemicals onto our veggies and fruits while they're growing.

All of this is not to say that the thais don't have their own bad unhealthy foods, but western influence cannot not be a factor in their increasing waistlines.

Edited December 6, 2012 by femi fan

[Rancid]

I'm very hesitant to buy a muesli, for instance, that is put out by a local group because it likely has never been analyzed to see what's in it. The story about the pharmacist getting out of pharmacy and opening a health food store because she finally realized she was selling unhealthy products as a pharmacist made me laugh. You get a lot of schooling to be a pharmacist; why the late awakening in her case? I suspect her change of career had more to do with money that it did with ethics.

Hold on though. Exactly what analysis do you want to subject mueslis that are locally made to? The one i've recommended simply has tossed oats and a mix of seeds, nuts, and dried fruits. They tell you what the ingredients are, and if you don't believe them, it's really quite easy to spot what an almond looks like, what a pumpkin seed looks like and so on!

It gives just as detailed a breakdown as the hahne muesli you buy from germany. How can you trust this german brand any more than the local brand? It's much harder to see what's in it than the chunky monkey mix. In any case, any cereal or muesli that has huge long lists of ingredients is not to be eaten lightly. And if it's got wheat in it, then the chances are it's been genetically modified.

You're being equally suspicious of the lady who runs baan suan pak. Western trained doctors and pharmacists are not told they are dealing with toxic medicines. Once they come to realise this, how many of them cease being doctors or pharmacists? Hardly any because they've sold their soul. This lady, once the full ramifications hit home to her was not prepared to sell her soul, so she got out and used her areas of expertise to open up a health shop. Once you know what toxins are and how they work, it must be quite easy to sell the opposite. I think you're displaying a healthy dosage of typical western cynicism by suggesting she went for the money rather than ethics. You keep saying how these health stores have so few customers in them, while a cursory look at the sheer quantity of pharmacies in chiang mai and customers they get suggests there's much more money in selling pills than healthy products.

I also know from my many chats with her that she won't sell certain items because she believes they're a con. She is most ethical and chiang mai people are most lucky to have her around.

I had to laugh at the bit, FemiFan about Western trained doctors and pharmacists are not told they are dealing with toxic medicines. Have you ever known someone who has gone to a medical school or a pharmacy school in the West? I have a brother who is a pharmicist and several good friends who became doctors. All were super smart. Western schools are super difficult to get into, and the applicants are quite expert on chemistry etc. And if you hadn't noticed, most Western med schools and pharmacy decades ago welcomed people like Dr. Andrew Weil, an expert on all kinds of nutrition. They are much, much better trained than people in local schools and any Thai with any sense will admit that. Why do you think that any Thai family that can send their son/daughter to a medical or pharmacy school in the West would jump at the opportunity?

I like products from Germany because that country thrives on quality and it has high standards of inspection. They also have a long history of involvement in health foods. The Hahne people list exactly what is in their product, by %. Again, the big problem I have with local "health" food stores is that the food has been sitting around for so long, mostly in high temperatures and humidity. All food goes bad after a while (wasn't it YOU who were complaining about rancid walnuts?) And do you actually know where those seeds, nuts and dried fruits in the muesli you so love came from? I suspect a lot, in the local case, from China which has some of the worst standards and highest pollution in the world. Think about it.

And with respect to the few people in the local health food stores, not only was that my experience (with the very sister store of the lady you are commending) but it was the experience of another poster here. We weren't making up our experiences. There were zero customers aside from myself in their second store near CMU, on a late Friday afternoon! Better to shop at well trafficed stores like Rimping where products don't sit forever on the shelf and which makes a point about selling quality items. Or at the organic markets for fresh produce and fruit.

Methinks you protest too much and are perhaps a bit too close to this lady pharmicist and her "health food" store?

Western doctors and pharmacists are the pushers for Big Pharma, it is how they are trained and how they make their money. Doctors have been disparaging every natural remedy and food since Big Pharma via Rockerfella set up the AMA and got laws passed outlawing any treatment that didn't make them a dollar. Pharmaceuticals are toxic, of course sometimes they are necessarry in the short term but long term is where the money is made, hence medication for life.

Good to see so many here looking at healthy eating.

[hellodolly]

Here are some more facts (not wrong impressions) about fast food in Thailand:

1. "By the end of 2009, Mister Donut operated more than 200 outlets covering the entire country and continues to expand more outlets in the future."

2. "Currently, KFC holds the biggest share in the fast food restaurant chain’s market in Thailand. It can be said that these days, KFC has become a part of Thai people’s everyday life..."

3. Auntie Annes has more than 85 outlets in Thailand.

Source for above: http://www.crg.co.th...rand/index.html

AND:

4. "CP All continues to lead chained fast food sales in Thailand, with 7-Eleven accounting for 53% of value sales in 2010. The company has expanded aggressively, opening an average of 450 stores per year, and aims to reach 7,000 stores by 2013..."

5. "Fast food (in Thailand) will continue to record healthy growth over the forecast period, with the area having a projected forecast period constant value CAGR of 8%. Leading chained players will likely engage in aggressive outlet expansion, price promotions, advertising, CRM campaigns, menu innovations and additional services. Small chained stores and independent stores will struggle to compete as strong branding is a key factor for consumers when choosing fast food products."

Source for above: http://www.euromonit...thailand/report

AND:

AND:

A&W PLANS 100 OUTLETS IN 4 YEARS

KUB Malaysia Berhad, the licensee of A&W fast-food restaurants in Thailand and Malaysia, is ramping up its business in this country by spending one billion baht to reach 100 outlets.

A&W has been present in Thailand since 1983. KUB has had the franchise for the past 10 years.

Haniza Ros Nasaruddin, the company's general manager for business development, said it would add another 59 A&W restaurants to the existing 41 now in Thailand by 2015. Annual turnover is forecast to triple to one billion baht by the same year.

As I recall, the question at hand is whether the growing problem of obesity in Thailand, is due in whole, or in part, to the consumption of Western fast food. Nothing you have cited has established any proof of this. It may well be that Western fast food outlets are largely responsible for this problem. Most likely there are multiple causes for this problem all relating to the changing way Thais now live. But I don't have any proof of that. It's just a notion of mine. I know the difference between notions and facts. Some others seem to have a problem with making this distinction.

I'm not sure there was a "question at hand". My posts above were in response to other posters here claiming that 1) not many Thais eat out in fast food places (disproved above; the fast food outlets know the Thais are their target group and form a huge majority of their customers); and 2) there are not so many fast food places in Thailand (an unbelievable claim, as the stats I've shown above prove).

I fully agree with you that there are likely multiple causes for obesity. But diet (a healthy diet) is the starting point. That was reinforced just today by a new study that followed 31,546 people in 14 countries. The study extended for more than 5 years. Their conclusion: people who ate more fruits and vegetables had fewer heart attacks and related problems. Here is what the study said about salt: "Instead of salt at the table, add an herb or spice for seasoning." Interestingly, they also concluded that health benefits from a healthy diet can occur even after a person has a bad health history. “Often people have old habits of eating certain ways and think, ‘what is the use of change?’” says Ginn, of the University of Maryland Center for Diabetes and Endocrinology. “But this study shows even changing at a later age can have an impact.” Source: http://www.webmd.com...-attacks?page=2

But getting back to your point, which is a good one, health problems like obesity/heart disease/diabetes likely have multiple causes. First, diet. Second, insufficient amount of exercise. Third, genetic makeup. People can control and modify the first two, but not the latter.

I suppose your stats are right. But they are as you swell know taken out of context. They convientley overlook the fact that Thailand has 66 million people in it. Give us the percentage of those Thais that eat in them. I don't get around that much in Chiang Mai but I know that there is at least three McDonalds here in Chiang Mai all located in tourist areas or Western type shopping malls. Is there any in the Thai markets?

A Thai who eats at McDonalds once a month should not count in your % of Thais who eat in them. There are many reasons that people are over weight. Diet is a part of them But to come up with some miniscule figures when you compare them to a population of 66,000,000 is a little bit misleading. Also with the fact that many of them are placed in places designed to attract Westeners is also a little misleading.

Cut Salt out of your diet and let me know how it works out. You might like it but I think your body might revolt.

Exccuse the spelling My spell checker is not working. Conect that to the faact I can't spell and well this is what you get.

[TheVicar]

Here are some more facts (not wrong impressions) about fast food in Thailand:

1. "By the end of 2009, Mister Donut operated more than 200 outlets covering the entire country and continues to expand more outlets in the future."

2. "Currently, KFC holds the biggest share in the fast food restaurant chain’s market in Thailand. It can be said that these days, KFC has become a part of Thai people’s everyday life..."

3. Auntie Annes has more than 85 outlets in Thailand.

Source for above: http://www.crg.co.th...rand/index.html

AND:

4. "CP All continues to lead chained fast food sales in Thailand, with 7-Eleven accounting for 53% of value sales in 2010. The company has expanded aggressively, opening an average of 450 stores per year, and aims to reach 7,000 stores by 2013..."

5. "Fast food (in Thailand) will continue to record healthy growth over the forecast period, with the area having a projected forecast period constant value CAGR of 8%. Leading chained players will likely engage in aggressive outlet expansion, price promotions, advertising, CRM campaigns, menu innovations and additional services. Small chained stores and independent stores will struggle to compete as strong branding is a key factor for consumers when choosing fast food products."

Source for above: http://www.euromonit...thailand/report

AND:

AND:

A&W PLANS 100 OUTLETS IN 4 YEARS

KUB Malaysia Berhad, the licensee of A&W fast-food restaurants in Thailand and Malaysia, is ramping up its business in this country by spending one billion baht to reach 100 outlets.

A&W has been present in Thailand since 1983. KUB has had the franchise for the past 10 years.

Haniza Ros Nasaruddin, the company's general manager for business development, said it would add another 59 A&W restaurants to the existing 41 now in Thailand by 2015. Annual turnover is forecast to triple to one billion baht by the same year.

As I recall, the question at hand is whether the growing problem of obesity in Thailand, is due in whole, or in part, to the consumption of Western fast food. Nothing you have cited has established any proof of this. It may well be that Western fast food outlets are largely responsible for this problem. Most likely there are multiple causes for this problem all relating to the changing way Thais now live. But I don't have any proof of that. It's just a notion of mine. I know the difference between notions and facts. Some others seem to have a problem with making this distinction.

I'm not sure there was a "question at hand". My posts above were in response to other posters here claiming that 1) not many Thais eat out in fast food places (disproved above; the fast food outlets know the Thais are their target group and form a huge majority of their customers); and 2) there are not so many fast food places in Thailand (an unbelievable claim, as the stats I've shown above prove).

I fully agree with you that there are likely multiple causes for obesity. But diet (a healthy diet) is the starting point. That was reinforced just today by a new study that followed 31,546 people in 14 countries. The study extended for more than 5 years. Their conclusion: people who ate more fruits and vegetables had fewer heart attacks and related problems. Here is what the study said about salt: "Instead of salt at the table, add an herb or spice for seasoning." Interestingly, they also concluded that health benefits from a healthy diet can occur even after a person has a bad health history. “Often people have old habits of eating certain ways and think, ‘what is the use of change?’” says Ginn, of the University of Maryland Center for Diabetes and Endocrinology. “But this study shows even changing at a later age can have an impact.” Source: http://www.webmd.com...-attacks?page=2

But getting back to your point, which is a good one, health problems like obesity/heart disease/diabetes likely have multiple causes. First, diet. Second, insufficient amount of exercise. Third, genetic makeup. People can control and modify the first two, but not the latter.

I suppose your stats are right. But they are as you swell know taken out of context. They convientley overlook the fact that Thailand has 66 million people in it. Give us the percentage of those Thais that eat in them. I don't get around that much in Chiang Mai but I know that there is at least three McDonalds here in Chiang Mai all located in tourist areas or Western type shopping malls. Is there any in the Thai markets?

A Thai who eats at McDonalds once a month should not count in your % of Thais who eat in them. There are many reasons that people are over weight. Diet is a part of them But to come up with some miniscule figures when you compare them to a population of 66,000,000 is a little bit misleading. Also with the fact that many of them are placed in places designed to attract Westeners is also a little misleading.

Cut Salt out of your diet and let me know how it works out. You might like it but I think your body might revolt.

Exccuse the spelling My spell checker is not working. Conect that to the faact I can't spell and well this is what you get.

You "suppose they're (the stats) right"? That's big of you. There is nothing to suppose. They are facts. Sources for them are given and can be checked. And how are the statistics I presented "out of context"? They show the vast number of fast food outlets in Thailand (in contradiction to other posters here claiming there are very few of them). You seem to think that Thais only go to "Thai markets" by which you seem to mean fresh markets. Those are not growing but going out of fashion; the "growth industry" in Thailand (as shown by one of the statements and facts above) is in the fast food sector.

Don't believe me? Suggestion: go to either of the two big shopping malls in the city and see how many Thais are there. Lots. Boatloads of them eating in the fast food outlets which are on all floors of all of these shopping centers. You'll also be able to spot the "wide bodies" that most of those addicted to the fast food places have (farangs and Thais).

You need to open your eyes (in addition to getting that spell checker fixed). The overwhelming weight of medical/nutritional opinion (pardon the pun) is that such food is very bad for the waistline and for one's overall health. It is beyond dispute by any but lunatics, climate denier types, those who think Darwin was wrong and the bible is right, those convinced Elvis is still alive and living on a desert island, advocates of the world ending on December 21 because the Mayan calendar, they claims, proves this etc.

Edited December 6, 2012 by TheVicar

[femi fan]

TheVicar, i'm sorry, but stats can be made to support any argument, but not very often 'facts'. Now, you seem to be implying that millions of thais are using fast food outlets. If this was the case then millions of thais would be fat or obese. Clearly we're nowhere near that at the moment.

Sugar is the largest culprit, together with salt and hydrogenated fats. All three are the combination in all processed foods. I would suggest that obesity is the outcome from eating a diet largely consisting of processed foods and drinking cokes and other soda drinks.

Therefore whatever level of obesity exists in thailand reflects the level of consumption of processed and fast foods.

Another thing to consider is that thais, with the advent of 711s everywhere are now snacking on such foods. It was when snacking came into british society that this country started to get fat.

There may well be all those fast foods outlets you talk of, but probably over 90% of thais never go to them, or perhaps visit them once or twice a year. Most thais simply don't have the money to spend there. Don't look at chiang mai as an example, it's one of the wealthiest places in thailand.

[Ulysses G.]

There may well be all those fast foods outlets you talk of, but probably over 90% of thais never go to them, or perhaps visit them once or twice a year.

Agreed and Thai shops and mini marts were selling the same junk that 7/11 sells long before they got here, so they can't be blamed as the main cause for obesity in Thailand either.

[butterisbetter]

You "suppose they're (the stats) right"? That's big of you. There is nothing to suppose. They are facts. Sources for them are given and can be checked. And how are the statistics I presented "out of context"? They show the vast number of fast food outlets in Thailand (in contradiction to other posters here claiming there are very few of them). You seem to think that Thais only go to "Thai markets" by which you seem to mean fresh markets. Those are not growing but going out of fashion; the "growth industry" in Thailand (as shown by one of the statements and facts above) is in the fast food sector.

Don't believe me? Suggestion: go to either of the two big shopping malls in the city and see how many Thais are there. Lots. Boatloads of them eating in the fast food outlets which are on all floors of all of these shopping centers. You'll also be able to spot the "wide bodies" that most of those addicted to the fast food places have (farangs and Thais).

You need to open your eyes (in addition to getting that spell checker fixed). The overwhelming weight of medical/nutritional opinion (pardon the pun) is that such food is very bad for the waistline and for one's overall health. It is beyond dispute by any but lunatics, climate denier types, those who think Darwin was wrong and the bible is right, those convinced Elvis is still alive and living on a desert island, advocates of the world ending on December 21 because the Mayan calendar, they claims, proves this etc.

Unfortunately the stats are incomplete. What is needed is what percentage of the total Thai diet comes from Western style fast food. Nothing you've cited makes any reference to that. In addition, even if Thais were not to east Western style fast food, does that mean they would stop or reduce their consumption of sugar and fatty foods? I think a reasonable alternative explanation is that as Thai income rises, they will eat less rice and more sugary and fatty foods. Human beings seem designed to crave that stuff.

Personal sightings of large number of large thais eating junk food at mini malls does not qualify as serious data. None of the statistics you've cited have anything to say about the growth decline of non western food. None of the statistics you've cited establish whether Thais are eating western junk food in place of healthful thai food or in place of Thai junk food. Words like "vast" may sound impressive, but they are subjective and not useful in establishing perspective.

And once again you indulge in ad hominem attacks by comparing people who question your arguments to anti Darwinists etc. (Also setting up a straw man) No one is saying that fatty foods are good for you. Just questioning a)whether it makes a difference if Thais eat Western style junk food or thai style junk food and b: if it's the fault of western fast food franchises that Thais are eating more junk food.

Even if your arguments were a lot stronger than they, in fact, are, what useful purpose do these ad hominem attacks serve? Why is it so difficult for you to adhere to rational discourse?

Edited December 7, 2012 by butterisbetter

[TheVicar]

You "suppose they're (the stats) right"? That's big of you. There is nothing to suppose. They are facts. Sources for them are given and can be checked. And how are the statistics I presented "out of context"? They show the vast number of fast food outlets in Thailand (in contradiction to other posters here claiming there are very few of them). You seem to think that Thais only go to "Thai markets" by which you seem to mean fresh markets. Those are not growing but going out of fashion; the "growth industry" in Thailand (as shown by one of the statements and facts above) is in the fast food sector.

Don't believe me? Suggestion: go to either of the two big shopping malls in the city and see how many Thais are there. Lots. Boatloads of them eating in the fast food outlets which are on all floors of all of these shopping centers. You'll also be able to spot the "wide bodies" that most of those addicted to the fast food places have (farangs and Thais).

You need to open your eyes (in addition to getting that spell checker fixed). The overwhelming weight of medical/nutritional opinion (pardon the pun) is that such food is very bad for the waistline and for one's overall health. It is beyond dispute by any but lunatics, climate denier types, those who think Darwin was wrong and the bible is right, those convinced Elvis is still alive and living on a desert island, advocates of the world ending on December 21 because the Mayan calendar, they claims, proves this etc.

Unfortunately the stats are incomplete. What is needed is what percentage of the total Thai diet comes from Western style fast food. Nothing you've cited makes any reference to that. In addition, even if Thais were not to east Western style fast food, does that mean they would stop or reduce their consumption of sugar and fatty foods? I think a reasonable alternative explanation is that as Thai income rises, they will eat less rice and more sugary and fatty foods. Human beings seem designed to crave that stuff.

Personal sightings of large number of large thais eating junk food at mini malls does not qualify as serious data. None of the statistics you've cited have anything to say about the growth decline of non western food. None of the statistics you've cited establish whether Thais are eating western junk food in place of healthful thai food or in place of Thai junk food. Words like "vast" may sound impressive, but they are subjective and not useful in establishing perspective.

And once again you indulge in ad hominem attacks by comparing people who question your arguments to anti Darwinists etc. (Also setting up a straw man) No one is saying that fatty foods are good for you. Just questioning a)whether it makes a difference if Thais eat Western style junk food or thai style junk food and b: if it's the fault of western fast food franchises that Thais are eating more junk food.

Even if your arguments were a lot stronger than they, in fact, are, what useful purpose do these ad hominem attacks serve? Why is it so difficult for you to adhere to rational discourse?

1. The stats are there for a purpose: to completely and definitely disprove comments by some posters above that there are not really so many fast food outlets in Thailand. That people continue to question that and also question the huge amount of evidence that fast food is bad for the body even given the stats puts them in the position of stat/science deniers; just like the deniers of global warming, Darwinian evolution etc. That is not an "ad hominem attack" but your last comments personally attacking me are. You're like the pot calling the kettle black! and to explain that to you it means: you are guilty of the very thing you are accusing me of.

2. Given your name, if you are connected to a baking operation that uses lots of butter, don't you have an undeclared vested interest here? Most of the authorities on food and nutrition will also point out that butter is bad for the body.

3. Whether it is the "fault" of Western style fast food outlets that Thais are eating their food is really immaterial, and more of a question of philosophy and ethics. The simple facts are that the western fast food outlets long ago decided that Thailand was a place where they could make lots of money, they came and set up and are in the process of setting up more fast food outlets, and they use very pervasive and persuasive marketing techniques to convince Thais (especially young people) to eat things that are not good for them.

4. I'm sorry you're displeased by the stats presented. You claim more are needed but that is the same kind of denial that the cigarette companies used 30 years ago. "More studies needed to determine whether tobacco is really bad...." Again, you seem to have a vested interest in unhealthy foods given your name here. It is "Butter is Better" no? And that is a commercial concern pushing unhealthy food products filled with sugar, salt, butter and white grains? Even while almost every authority on health and nutrition puts butter at the top of the list of unhealthy fats. Dr. Andrew Weil, for instance, recommends immediately throwing all butter into the garbage can and using healthier fats instead.

5. You overlook statistics and correlation. I've said again and again that the statistics on the growth of Thai obesity almost perfectly coincide with the growth and expansion of western fast food outlets in Thailand. In stats, that is a kind of proof, whether you like it or not. Thai cooking always had an element of sweetness (sugar) in it: but Thais were not fat for centuries upon centuries given that their food also emphasizes fresh food, much of it in vegetables and fruit; and there were no unhealthy fast food chains and bakeries pushing buttery items around. Butter---NOT! That all changed at the same time that western fast food chains began proliferating in Thailand: and that is statistically significant.

Edited December 7, 2012 by TheVicar