Accepting The Farang Status, And The Implications

[ayayay]

Not the same at all . All a farang is , is a westerner , the majority of who ( on thai shores ) have white skin . The point of ferang is that it tells you where someone comes from ( more or less ) . It doesn't refer to skin colour .

In rare cases, the person would call a non white person farang as well, if he is from the west, but 99% of the time, no.

First and foremost, it is white people, only.

An equivalent would be if you had said that your wife was Asian .

There is something more to it than that, first of, Asian is a geographical, farang is not. And also, it seems like farang is used in a much larger degree, than we would use the word Asian. After just a few weeks, our Asian wife, just becomes our wife, meanwhile, my thai wife, after ten years, will still refer to me as farang.

Read through the thread...

Thais will call black UK or USA people ferang so it's not about skin colour . More about point of origin.

No, usually not so...

[SteeleJoe]

...meanwhile, my thai wife, after ten years, will still refer to me as farang...

BOOM!

There it is.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[BigJohnnyBKK]

An equivalent would be if you had said that your wife was Asian .

There is something more to it than that, first of, Asian is a geographical, farang is not. And also, it seems like farang is used in a much larger degree, than we would use the word Asian. After just a few weeks, our Asian wife, just becomes our wife, meanwhile, my thai wife, after ten years, will still refer to me as farang.

No Asian is not geographical, there are Asians living in every country of the world, lots and lots in countries that Thais would call "farang countries".

It is just as much an over-generalization as "farang", exactly the same, lumping many "races" together due to our treating that grouping as alien, "other" being less familiar with the differences, as many posters here will claim "they all look alike to me", or even that Thais can't tell Japanese facial features from say Indonesian.

And I say nothing wrong with either case.

Except for the fact that you married someone who still uses the term for her own partner despite the fact that you presumably have expressed a distaste for the term.

I would say your issue is much more of a personal problem than a genuine objective socio-cultural linguistic one.

If she's not purposefully expressing a lack of respect for you, maybe she just has a very poor memory?

[ayayay]

Sorry but I'm quite sure you're wrong, the term has nothing to do with nationality and everything to do with Thai perceptions of race.

Correct

The less educated/worldly ones get confused if you try to tell them that black Americans for example are just as much Americans as the white ones, but they'll continue to see that as "kon dahm", never farang.

Yes, corrrect.

A white-complexioned Indian or Iranian may well be called a farang at first, and a dark-complexioned farang, say from southern Europe may well be called "khaek", until corrected in which case they'll refer to them as farang to their face but usually just to be polite, in their heart they'll still feel 'he's not really a farang is he' based on the skin color.

Very correct

[ayayay]

Except for the fact that you married someone who still uses the term for her own partner despite the fact that you presumably have expressed a distaste for the term.

I am not married.

[bermondburi]

Is this really different to how in the UK ( for example ) you see someone and say , " yeah the black buy over there " or " the fit Asian bird " or whoever . Then you meet the guy and find out his name etc and start buying your DVDs off of the Asian woman and then use her name.

This is mentioned and answered several times through the whole thread, read it.

it was obviously a good point then.

[bermondburi]

Not the same at all . All a farang is , is a westerner , the majority of who ( on thai shores ) have white skin . The point of ferang is that it tells you where someone comes from ( more or less ) . It doesn't refer to skin colour .

In rare cases, the person would call a non white person farang as well, if he is from the west, but 99% of the time, no.

First and foremost, it is white people, only.

An equivalent would be if you had said that your wife was Asian .

There is something more to it than that, first of, Asian is a geographical, farang is not. And also, it seems like farang is used in a much larger degree, than we would use the word Asian. After just a few weeks, our Asian wife, just becomes our wife, meanwhile, my thai wife, after ten years, will still refer to me as farang.

Read through the thread...

Thais will call black UK or USA people ferang so it's not about skin colour . More about point of origin.

No, usually not so...

but ferrang is geographical in that the vast majority of white westerners who get called ferang all come from the same places , i.e. N.America / Europe / NZ / SA (whiteys ) and OZ .

I've often heard Thais refer to black US / UK friends of mine as ferang . Maybe not all the time but they do do it .

It's just that the majority of foreigners from the countries mentioned above happen to be white .

[Naam]

It's just that the majority of foreigners from the countries mentioned above happen to be white

i have seen white paper, white paint, white rabbits, white mice, white birds and a zillion white objects. but i have never seen a white person.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Except for the fact that you married someone who still uses the term for her own partner despite the fact that you presumably have expressed a distaste for the term.

I am not married.

So what does the following mean?

...meanwhile, my thai wife, after ten years, will still refer to me as farang...

On the off chance you're not a NES you should know that any circumstance that implies "wife" and "husband" also implies "marriage". This includes common-law situations, does not require civil registration, nor religious/cultural ceremonies.

It does usually imply monogamy but that's just assumed not required.

And I believe the larger point still applies.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

It's just that the majority of foreigners from the countries mentioned above happen to be white

i have seen white paper, white paint, white rabbits, white mice, white birds and a zillion white objects. but i have never seen a white person.

Specious pedantry, unless you're taking the position that the whole idea of ethnicity and race should be completely swept from the minds and languages of all of humanity in one fell swoop?

Or is there another term that you would prefer we use - Caucasian? Farang? what?

I would say for purposes of normal discussion all three are equally meaningful, no matter what some opinions are about political correctness.

Jeez. . .

[BigJohnnyBKK]

but ferrang is geographical in that the vast majority of white westerners who get called ferang all come from the same places , i.e. N.America / Europe / NZ / SA (whiteys ) and OZ .

Note that the word "place" is singular, while your growing list of places is not.

The vast majority of Asians come from one country, but the classifier is used for Asian people who reside in all the places you specify.

Neither classifier is "geographical", only nationalities are.

I've often heard Thais refer to black US / UK friends of mine as ferang . Maybe not all the time but they do do it .

It's just that the majority of foreigners from the countries mentioned above happen to be white .

Well then (if that's true) I think those Thais are adapting to what they perceive to be a westerner's sensitivity to such issues, perhaps trying to be politically correct.

Next time you hear one do that, call them on it, "I thought farang means white-skinned, why are you calling that black fellow a farang?" and do please report back here as to what the answer is.

[poanoi]

List:

negro = negro (ai damm impolite form)

indian = kaek

arab =arab

japanese =jippon

chinese = gene

farang ( white skin peeps)

korean = kao lee

laos = lao

burmese = pa-ma

cambodian = k'men

[mania]

List:

negro = negro (ai damm impolite form)

indian = kaek

arab =arab

japanese =jippon

chinese = gene

farang ( white skin peeps)

korean = kao lee

laos = lao

burmese = pa-ma

cambodian = k'men

See that is what I was saying.

all those people you list I can identify pretty much by sight ( well maybe not Laos )

But white folks? I would never know a German from a Brit,Italian, etc.

Cant blame them for simplifying a term for that large group

Edited November 6, 2012 by mania

[bermondburi]

It's just that the majority of foreigners from the countries mentioned above happen to be white

i have seen white paper, white paint, white rabbits, white mice, white birds and a zillion white objects. but i have never seen a white person.

not been to Scotland then ?

[bermondburi]

but ferrang is geographical in that the vast majority of white westerners who get called ferang all come from the same places , i.e. N.America / Europe / NZ / SA (whiteys ) and OZ .

Note that the word "place" is singular, while your growing list of places is not.

The vast majority of Asians come from one country, but the classifier is used for Asian people who reside in all the places you specify.

Neither classifier is "geographical", only nationalities are.

I've often heard Thais refer to black US / UK friends of mine as ferang . Maybe not all the time but they do do it .

It's just that the majority of foreigners from the countries mentioned above happen to be white .

Well then (if that's true) I think those Thais are adapting to what they perceive to be a westerner's sensitivity to such issues, perhaps trying to be politically correct.

Next time you hear one do that, call them on it, "I thought farang means white-skinned, why are you calling that black fellow a farang?" and do please report back here as to what the answer is.

my list isn't growing , it's the same list I used in a previous post.

Asians come from Asia which is a many countries , just as ferang come from many countries , Where is the problem ?

Don't live in Thailand anymore , so I won't be reporting back anytime soon.

[bermondburi]

List:

negro = negro (ai damm impolite form)

indian = kaek

arab =arab

japanese =jippon

chinese = gene

farang ( white skin peeps)

korean = kao lee

laos = lao

burmese = pa-ma

cambodian = k'men

See that is what I was saying.

all those people you list I can identify pretty much by sight ( well maybe not Laos )

But white folks? I would never know a German from a Brit,Italian, etc.

Cant blame them for simplifying a term for that large group

the voice of reason.

[ayayay]

Except for the fact that you married someone who still uses the term for her own partner despite the fact that you presumably have expressed a distaste for the term.

I am not married.

So what does the following mean?

...meanwhile, my thai wife, after ten years, will still refer to me as farang...

It is called an example...Duh

[ayayay]

but ferrang is geographical in that the vast majority of white westerners who get called ferang all come from the same places , i.e. N.America / Europe / NZ / SA (whiteys ) and OZ .

Note that the word "place" is singular, while your growing list of places is not.

The vast majority of Asians come from one country, but the classifier is used for Asian people who reside in all the places you specify.

Neither classifier is "geographical", only nationalities are.

I've often heard Thais refer to black US / UK friends of mine as ferang . Maybe not all the time but they do do it .

It's just that the majority of foreigners from the countries mentioned above happen to be white .

Well then (if that's true) I think those Thais are adapting to what they perceive to be a westerner's sensitivity to such issues, perhaps trying to be politically correct.

Next time you hear one do that, call them on it, "I thought farang means white-skinned, why are you calling that black fellow a farang?" and do please report back here as to what the answer is.

my list isn't growing , it's the same list I used in a previous post.

Asians come from Asia which is a many countries , just as ferang come from many countries , Where is the problem ?

Eh, you still have not read the posts in this thread?? Because if you had, you would not be asking that obvious question

[bangkokburning]

Its humourous how some on here are upset with the name 'falang' and yet refer to the people they are with as thai's...thai wife, thai gf etc.etc

Thai is a nationality, yes? What nationality is f-rang?

Yes but why do such people feel the need to label their partner in this manner? Why not just say, "my wife" or my gf" etcetera? It shows that they are always thinking of the difference between their own race / nationality and that of the Thai person they are with.

However, if family members are referring to posters as "the farang", I would have to agree that this is totally unacceptable and I find it very surprising.

Because it brings often brings clarity and context to state your wife is local and not another farang. Thats really a duh sort of epiphany no?

☺

[Neeranam]

People sometimes ask if my kids are 'kaek khao'. his is a term which refers often to Iranians, some Pakistanis, Afghanis, even Iraqis and other Middle Eastern folks.

I find this sometimes to have a hint of derogatoriness. But maybe I am a touch sensitive.

[bangkokburning]

Why does these idiots these prattle onlike this?

In the end it all means foreigner. So bloody what, you are a foreigner here and always will be - even with your new PR stats whoopie!!

Thai/Lao say farang

Khmer say barang

Malay/Indo say orang asling

Germans says ouslander

Americans simply say foreigner

They all mean foreigner and the word in and of itself is not offensive.

Kha-min = Khmer people. That is offensive. The Thai say it and don't even realize.

Now, if your family is calling you "farang", you have a personal problem.

To everyone else get over your petty self abdorbed selves.

<deleted>!

Edited November 6, 2012 by bangkokburning

[Neeranam]

Why does these idiots threafs prattle onlike this?

In the end it all means foreigner. So bloody what, you are a foreigner here and always will be - even with your new PR stats whoopie!!

Thai/Lao say farang

Khmer say barang

Malay/Indo say orang asling

Germans says ouslander

Americans simply day foreigner

Now, if your family is calling you "farang", you have a personal problem.

To everyone else get over your petty self abdorbed selves.

<deleted>!

So much wrong here I don't have time to say what I want.

What about those with Thai citizenship?

Would you say that Thai Chinese are foreigners and always will be?

'farang' doesn't mean foreigner.

Loatians dont say 'farang'

Why do you think it's ok for your family to call you farang - this is proposterous unless you call your family the rice farmers in Nakhon Nowhere that you visit on your yearly visit from Pattaya.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Neeranam

[ayayay]

In the end it all means foreigner. So bloody what, you are a foreigner here and always will be - even with your new PR stats whoopie!!

So you do not care about wether or not your own family will refer to you as a foreigner? If so, you are one of very few people.

Personally I would never call myself a "foreigner" when I am with my thai family (this is just an example, I am not married to a thai lady), which many of us do on a daily basis, without thinking what it really means.

They all mean foreigner and the word in and of itself is not offensive.

Yes we have discussed that several times in the thread, and that is not the main concern

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Why does these idiots threafs prattle onlike this?

In the end it all means foreigner. So bloody what, you are a foreigner here and always will be - even with your new PR stats whoopie!!

Thai/Lao say farang

Khmer say barang

Malay/Indo say orang asling

Germans says ouslander

Americans simply day foreigner

Now, if your family is calling you "farang", you have a personal problem.

To everyone else get over your petty self abdorbed selves.

<deleted>!

So much wrong here I don't have time to say what I want.

What about those with Thai citizenship?

Would you say that Thai Chinese are foreigners and always will be?

'farang' doesn't mean foreigner.

Loatians dont say 'farang'

Why do you think it's ok for your family to call you farang - this is proposterous unless you call your family the rice farmers in Nakhon Nowhere that you visit on your yearly visit from Pattaya.

Neeranam, I completely agree with your objections to his nonsense, but then you have to ruin it with that last bit.

To be honest you sound as bad as the Bangkok Thais with such contempt for country peasants. In general the latter are IMO a much better quality of human than the former. . .

[BigJohnnyBKK]

People sometimes ask if my kids are 'kaek khao'. his is a term which refers often to Iranians, some Pakistanis, Afghanis, even Iraqis and other Middle Eastern folks.

I find this sometimes to have a hint of derogatoriness. But maybe I am a touch sensitive.

Yes "kaek" derives from "guest" as in "guest worker", and is the word used for subcontinental and middle-eastern ethnicities.

It is considered derogatory, since most Thais look down on them, but not as much so "khon dahm".

It's even used (mostly behind their back) referring to people whose families have been Thai citizens for generations.

Because my (ethnically Khmer) daughter turned out a bit darker than my son, the villagers speculated that she had a bit of "khaek" mixed in with her farang, and it is true that seafaring Indians and Arabs had a lot of trade and other intercourse with the Khmer over the millenia.

[Naam]

It's just that the majority of foreigners from the countries mentioned above happen to be white

i have seen white paper, white paint, white rabbits, white mice, white birds and a zillion white objects. but i have never seen a white person.

Specious pedantry, unless you're taking the position that the whole idea of ethnicity and race should be completely swept from the minds and languages of all of humanity in one fell swoop?

Or is there another term that you would prefer we use - Caucasian? Farang? what?

I would say for purposes of normal discussion all three are equally meaningful, no matter what some opinions are about political correctness.

Jeez. . .

the former colonial masters invented the expression "white". today it is used only by linguistic peasants. that's of course just my [not so] humble personal opinion.

[Naam]

It's just that the majority of foreigners from the countries mentioned above happen to be white

i have seen white paper, white paint, white rabbits, white mice, white birds and a zillion white objects. but i have never seen a white person.

not been to Scotland then ?

they do have white Scots over there?

[Naam]

So much wrong here I don't have time to say what I want.

What about those with Thai citizenship?

Would you say that Thai Chinese are foreigners and always will be?

'farang' doesn't mean foreigner.

Loatians dont say 'farang'

Why do you think it's ok for your family to call you farang - this is proposterous unless you call your family the rice farmers in Nakhon Nowhere that you visit on your yearly visit from Pattaya.

'farang' doesn't mean foreigner...

...say those who possess a wealth of "no idea"

[Naam]

i'm a German who has lived in the U.S. of A. where i was an "alien" for 15 years. and that was long before i selected an alien as avatar

[BigJohnnyBKK]

the former colonial masters invented the expression "white". today it is used only by linguistic peasants. that's of course just my [not so] humble personal opinion.

So please let me know which term your not-so-humble post-colonial highness would prefer we use, or which of the other options I presented above apply in your esteemed opinion.