Counting Calories

[robblok]

I often eat the same stuff so counting calories is quite useful for me. I have found a nice program, for the ipad and like it. Sometimes i put a day in there just to get an idea about the amount of calories. Today i did it again and got shocked by the calories in my ground beef burgers. Its good to sometimes check how much you really eat.

The stuff below i got from my application, i did have to cut and paste a bit. But it actually works quite well.

[tropo]

2000 calories doesn't seem like a lot of food.

How many hard boiled eggs do you eat?

You don't use the natural whey protein now?

[robblok]

Tropo,

2000 calories is not a lot of food actually this image shows 2151 calories. That is a bit more average human needs 2000 cals. So i am happy i loose weight on 2151. But for someone my size and someone who works out that much its not much.

I did however start loosing weight again, im now at 91.5 so even lower as last time. Seems i have overcome a plateau.

There are 2 eggs in the diet, i just used grams because it was in the program and i put the eggs on the scales to check. Same with the whey, im using the natural whey but this one was already in the program.

There is an enormous database with everything, so you just select what you eat and how much it weighs and the program does the rest. I really like how it works on the ipad, But there is a web based application for it too.

I am curious how much you eat in a day.

[JSixpack]

More interesting and meaningful to count carbs and glycemic indexes.

[tropo]

I am curious how much you eat in a day.

I wouldn't have a clue how many calories I eat. I usually have about 300 grams of protein. After a workout 130 - 150 grams of carbs and low carbs the rest of the day... along with several servings of fruit and cashews throughout the day. I should work it out, but it would vary quite a bit from day to day.

[tropo]

More interesting and meaningful to count carbs and glycemic indexes.

Glycemic indexes are not nearly as important as carb load and timing.

Roblok has a low carb diet, just do I. We eat to maintain blood sugar levels under 100 mg/dl if possible. I try hard to keep it under 110 mg/dl at all times.

I can jam down 150 grams of carbs (including high glycemic carbs - eg bananas, raisins, milk) straight after an intense workout and still maintain blood sugar in the 80's and 90's after an hour. At other times of the day that could prove problematic.

.. however, if you jam down more calories than you need you're going to put on fat - even with low carbs. The equation cannot be cheated. Calories don't magically disappear. They must be burned or you're going to wear them.

[robblok]

This day was not really that low carb, but its not high either. I keep the bloodsugar down under 100 mg/dl.

Gone are the days of 100grams of carbs in 1 sitting, but i must say im happy to see progress again. I might do a 100 gram carb again after a tough row, sometimes you need to give the body a few more extra calories. I call it a refeed, just good food but more. Right now all things seem to work

[robblok]

If i want low carb i replace the diner that is mentioned there for an other diner meat with veggies. I am surprised that there are still so many carbs in my mixed veggies.

But i must say Tropo, im not eating much if you look at the 2200 cals and the fact that i just did a row today of 600+ cals. Anyway im loosing again that is what i wanted.

[Kalbo]

Tropo,

2000 calories is not a lot of food actually this image shows 2151 calories. That is a bit more average human needs 2000 cals. So i am happy i loose weight on 2151. But for someone my size and someone who works out that much its not much.

I did however start loosing weight again, im now at 91.5 so even lower as last time. Seems i have overcome a plateau.

There are 2 eggs in the diet, i just used grams because it was in the program and i put the eggs on the scales to check. Same with the whey, im using the natural whey but this one was already in the program.

There is an enormous database with everything, so you just select what you eat and how much it weighs and the program does the rest. I really like how it works on the ipad, But there is a web based application for it too.

I am curious how much you eat in a day.

Rob, what's the name of the program ?

[robblok]

@KALBO http://caloriecount.about.com/ i use both the app for my ipad as the webbased aplication. I personally think that counting calories can help to get an insight in how much your eating.

Because i eat similar things on a day to day base i just count those days. At first i counted everything now i just check my food program once in a while.

[JSixpack]

.. however, if you jam down more calories than you need you're going to put on fat - even with low carbs. The equation cannot be cheated. Calories don't magically disappear. They must be burned or you're going to wear them.

The usual outdated nonsense.

"The calorie-is-a-calorie notion dates to 1878, when the great German nutritionist Max Rubner established what he called the isodynamic law."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/opinion/sunday/what-really-makes-us-fat.html?_r=0

[robblok]

.. however, if you jam down more calories than you need you're going to put on fat - even with low carbs. The equation cannot be cheated. Calories don't magically disappear. They must be burned or you're going to wear them.

The usual outdated nonsense.

"The calorie-is-a-calorie notion dates to 1878, when the great German nutritionist Max Rubner established what he called the isodynamic law."

http://www.nytimes.c...s-fat.html?_r=0

Nice but like the author said its not iron clad. But a 300 cals a day is quite a lot if you take that on month to month basis. In general i like to eat lower carb then i did before. Still wont cut them all off

[tropo]

.. however, if you jam down more calories than you need you're going to put on fat - even with low carbs. The equation cannot be cheated. Calories don't magically disappear. They must be burned or you're going to wear them.

The usual outdated nonsense.

"The calorie-is-a-calorie notion dates to 1878, when the great German nutritionist Max Rubner established what he called the isodynamic law."

http://www.nytimes.c...s-fat.html?_r=0

You're being a bit pre-mature, calling something nonsense on the back of that article.

Please consider the final paragraph:

"A controversial conclusion? Absolutely, and Dr. Ludwig’s results are by no means ironclad. The diets should be fed for far longer than one month, something he hopes to do in a follow-up study. As in any science, these experiments should be replicated by independent investigators. We’ve been arguing about this for over a century. Let’s put it to rest with more good science. The public health implications are enormous"

But all in all a very interesting article and we appreciate you bringing it to our attention.

I personally have lost a lot of fat weight and produced single digit fat percentage figures by limiting carbs, but not to an extreme level. The main reason I limit them is to keep blood sugar low and even throughout the day.

I eat one very high carb meal per day at present, and this has resulted in lowering my body fat levels even further. This must be taken in the context of an intense exercise program and I wouldn't recommend it for sedentary dieters.

These tests conducted are over simplified and much more precise data should be collected from the test subjects. It would be essential to find out the state of their insulin metabolism before the tests were conducted. For example, when I was first diagnosed with f****ed-up insulin metabolism back in 2005 my fasting blood sugar levels were through the roof. I wasn't just insulin resistant, I was well and truly diabetic with FBS's in the mid-200's (normal under 100) and PP readings in the low 200's (normal below 140). Obviously a low carb diet will work wonders for a person like me, but what about a person with perfectly normal blood sugar metabolism. There are plenty of fat people who have normal blood sugar metabolisms just as there are skinny type 2 diabetics.

You'd have to come up with far more compelling scientific evidence if you want to convince me you cannot get fat from eating too much protein and fat on a low carb diet.

[Kalbo]

.. however, if you jam down more calories than you need you're going to put on fat - even with low carbs. The equation cannot be cheated. Calories don't magically disappear. They must be burned or you're going to wear them.

The usual outdated nonsense.

"The calorie-is-a-calorie notion dates to 1878, when the great German nutritionist Max Rubner established what he called the isodynamic law."

http://www.nytimes.c...s-fat.html?_r=0

Why is it outdated ? The basic tenet of weight loss is that you need to burn more calories than you consume. This is an inescapable biological fact. There are major differences in the nutritional value the food where the calories are obtained from, but I can assure you, if I only consumed 1500 calories per day, obtained entirely from beer and donuts, I would lose weight and on the other side, if I ate 6,000 calories / day in the form of cabbage, broccoli and lean chicken, I would gain weight.

[robblok]

.. however, if you jam down more calories than you need you're going to put on fat - even with low carbs. The equation cannot be cheated. Calories don't magically disappear. They must be burned or you're going to wear them.

The usual outdated nonsense.

"The calorie-is-a-calorie notion dates to 1878, when the great German nutritionist Max Rubner established what he called the isodynamic law."

http://www.nytimes.c...s-fat.html?_r=0

Why is it outdated ? The basic tenet of weight loss is that you need to burn more calories than you consume. This is an inescapable biological fact. There are major differences in the nutritional value the food where the calories are obtained from, but I can assure you, if I only consumed 1500 calories per day, obtained entirely from beer and donuts, I would lose weight and on the other side, if I ate 6,000 calories / day in the form of cabbage, broccoli and lean chicken, I would gain weight.

I think nobody is disputing this, however there are some exceptions.

If you take a real high carb meal in one sitting it wills spike your insulin and turn it quickly into fat. I do believe that there are differences in what you eat. But these differences are not major. Though i find 300cals a day quite a lot if it is by just eating different.

For instance its known that proteins require more work to burn then carbs, believe it has something to do with a thermic effect. Myself i loose weight better on lower (not no) carb food plans then on high carb ones.

But for me its mainly won by eating less counting my calories and working out. I don't believe in magical all you can eat ratios of carb and fat and protein. I do believe there are differences and you just have to find out what works best for you.

If i was 100% sure about that 300 extra cals a day i would change my food intake, but i think the differences are smaller then that even. Sure on the long run (a year or so) it would help. But not if you are still eating too much. So the calorie in and calorie out equation still works its just that some calories are easier processed as others.

But in the grand sceme of things if your really overeating the right foods wont help a bit. Thought hey might fill you up faster. I doubt you can eat 6000casl of broccoli

[Tolley]

I think the whole calorie in calorie out is way too simplistic.

There are so many variables that need to be taken into account.

A middle aged man might consume the same amount of calories as a young man with the same exercise level yet the middle aged man gets fat and the young man doesnt.

How much muscle mass you have might also influence how many calories you burn.

How efficient your digestive system is might also have an influence. eg some people might not be absorbing a lot of the nutrients in their diet

Food intolerances can also have an effect on weight gain.

What about inefficient liver or kidneys etc

The body is not a machine like a car or motor bike it is a highly complex organism and as such simplistic notions of just calories in and calories out are not going to cut for many people.

[Kalbo]

.. however, if you jam down more calories than you need you're going to put on fat - even with low carbs. The equation cannot be cheated. Calories don't magically disappear. They must be burned or you're going to wear them.

The usual outdated nonsense.

"The calorie-is-a-calorie notion dates to 1878, when the great German nutritionist Max Rubner established what he called the isodynamic law."

http://www.nytimes.c...s-fat.html?_r=0

Why is it outdated ? The basic tenet of weight loss is that you need to burn more calories than you consume. This is an inescapable biological fact. There are major differences in the nutritional value the food where the calories are obtained from, but I can assure you, if I only consumed 1500 calories per day, obtained entirely from beer and donuts, I would lose weight and on the other side, if I ate 6,000 calories / day in the form of cabbage, broccoli and lean chicken, I would gain weight.

I think nobody is disputing this, however there are some exceptions.

If you take a real high carb meal in one sitting it wills spike your insulin and turn it quickly into fat. I do believe that there are differences in what you eat. But these differences are not major. Though i find 300cals a day quite a lot if it is by just eating different.

For instance its known that proteins require more work to burn then carbs, believe it has something to do with a thermic effect. Myself i loose weight better on lower (not no) carb food plans then on high carb ones.

But for me its mainly won by eating less counting my calories and working out. I don't believe in magical all you can eat ratios of carb and fat and protein. I do believe there are differences and you just have to find out what works best for you.

If i was 100% sure about that 300 extra cals a day i would change my food intake, but i think the differences are smaller then that even. Sure on the long run (a year or so) it would help. But not if you are still eating too much. So the calorie in and calorie out equation still works its just that some calories are easier processed as others.

But in the grand sceme of things if your really overeating the right foods wont help a bit. Thought hey might fill you up faster. I doubt you can eat 6000casl of broccoli

I think someone previously made the point about processed foods being a modern day evil in that it is far,far easier to consume 5,000 calories in one sitting by eating donuts and coca cola than it would be to consume 5,000 calories of broccoli and lean chicken. The point I was trying to make is that whatever an individuals calorific needs are, if that person consumes more calories than he expends, be those calories from donuts, lean beef or soya milk, then the individual will gain fat. Now if the same individual eats high glycemic foods, which would turn quickly to bodyfat due to insulin spike, he would be able to lose weight if he was calorie deficit in the long term. He probably wouldn't be very healthy though.

[robblok]

Why is it outdated ? The basic tenet of weight loss is that you need to burn more calories than you consume. This is an inescapable biological fact. There are major differences in the nutritional value the food where the calories are obtained from, but I can assure you, if I only consumed 1500 calories per day, obtained entirely from beer and donuts, I would lose weight and on the other side, if I ate 6,000 calories / day in the form of cabbage, broccoli and lean chicken, I would gain weight.

I think nobody is disputing this, however there are some exceptions.

If you take a real high carb meal in one sitting it wills spike your insulin and turn it quickly into fat. I do believe that there are differences in what you eat. But these differences are not major. Though i find 300cals a day quite a lot if it is by just eating different.

For instance its known that proteins require more work to burn then carbs, believe it has something to do with a thermic effect. Myself i loose weight better on lower (not no) carb food plans then on high carb ones.

But for me its mainly won by eating less counting my calories and working out. I don't believe in magical all you can eat ratios of carb and fat and protein. I do believe there are differences and you just have to find out what works best for you.

If i was 100% sure about that 300 extra cals a day i would change my food intake, but i think the differences are smaller then that even. Sure on the long run (a year or so) it would help. But not if you are still eating too much. So the calorie in and calorie out equation still works its just that some calories are easier processed as others.

But in the grand sceme of things if your really overeating the right foods wont help a bit. Thought hey might fill you up faster. I doubt you can eat 6000casl of broccoli

I think someone previously made the point about processed foods being a modern day evil in that it is far,far easier to consume 5,000 calories in one sitting by eating donuts and coca cola than it would be to consume 5,000 calories of broccoli and lean chicken. The point I was trying to make is that whatever an individuals calorific needs are, if that person consumes more calories than he expends, be those calories from donuts, lean beef or soya milk, then the individual will gain fat. Now if the same individual eats high glycemic foods, which would turn quickly to bodyfat due to insulin spike, he would be able to lose weight if he was calorie deficit in the long term. He probably wouldn't be very healthy though.

I get your point Kalbo, i think we all agree that you need to expend more calories then you take in. Else why would i be counting calories.

[robblok]

I think the whole calorie in calorie out is way too simplistic.

There are so many variables that need to be taken into account.

A middle aged man might consume the same amount of calories as a young man with the same exercise level yet the middle aged man gets fat and the young man doesnt.

How much muscle mass you have might also influence how many calories you burn.

How efficient your digestive system is might also have an influence. eg some people might not be absorbing a lot of the nutrients in their diet

Food intolerances can also have an effect on weight gain.

What about inefficient liver or kidneys etc

The body is not a machine like a car or motor bike it is a highly complex organism and as such simplistic notions of just calories in and calories out are not going to cut for many people.

But Tolly, it still works that way, its just that not every body is the same. I had to find what is right for me. And it is low real low and i do have more then average muscle mass. So calories in vs calories out still work. Problem is knowing how much you expend. I once had a bodimedia device that i put on my arm and it measured how much calories i expended. For me it did not work that good because the figures of expending were to high IMHO. If i was going to eat that much i would surely gain fat.

[NeverSure]

I am losing about 4-5 pounds a month counting calories. I have a menu and I follow it. I even weigh some foods.

I posted before that I had an accident a little less than 3 years ago which resulted in a brain injury. Combined with orders to not exercise, massive steroids to keep down brain swelling, and another med which caused me to feel starved even when I was full, I gained a LOT of weight in just 2 years. Now I am cleared, and fine, but still not allowed to exercise for about 8 more months.

What I have found is that if I don't eat some carbs and fat, my body and brain get weak. It's awful. I have resorted to what some "experts" recommend which is to take a day off from the diet when needed and eat. Some say that an extended diet will trigger the body to believe it's in starvation mode, and it will quit burning fat to make up for the lost calories. If that's true, then time is wasted, effort is wasted, and the body gets ill feeling from lack of fuel. I'm no expert but I believe I experience that.

Now, if every about 5 or 6 days I do that, and eat perhaps 200 calories more than I believe I burn, it feels as if my body resets, goes out of starvation mode, begins again burning fat for fuel, and I'm golden for another 5-6 days on the diet. That day off sees fat and carbs I wouldn't otherwise eat. At the end of a week I've still lost a pound or so.

I have increased my menu to 1500 per day. It's still 1350, but I now allow 150 for snacks. That's usually two or three 60 cal, 6 oz fat free, sugar free, no artificial sweetener, real fruit yogurts. That's 12 - 18 oz of yogurt for snacks - a pretty good help. That's fairly low carb, high protein, and the sweet comes from real fruit pieces in the yogurt package.

For me, since I can't really exercise yet (I do cheat a little but not much) it does seem to be calories in/calories burned.

IT IS GREAT TO STEP ON THOSE DIGITAL SCALES AND SEE ANOTHER 1 OR 2 POUNDS GONE1 I have already dropped 2 waist sizes in pants, and I have another 35 pounds to go. At this rate, I'm looking for July 27, 2013 to be back to 170 pounds @ 5'10" - what I always weighed before the accident.

I forgot to mention that I'm off the meds or I couldn't do this. I think I have a mental advantage over some in that I've always, always been thin. I don't think of myself as a fat person trying to get thinner, and revolt at a glance at the mirror. I think of myself as a thin person needing to get back to normal. My subconscious knows I belong among the thin. Genetically I'm thin, lean and in good condition. I don't know if that helps or how much, but I know it helps on the conscious level. I just don't see "me" when I look in a mirror. I want "me" back.

Good luck to everyone. I'm no diet expert. I'm just doing something which works for me, and I hope everyone who tries succeeds. I will.

[robblok]

The thing you said about eating more 1 out of 7 days its called carb or calory cycling. Suppossed to be good. I do it at times too. Yes its nice to see weight gone. But then i look in the mirror and wonder where the weight is gone from. Its hard at times to see improvement.

Now i see im getting veins in my arms and even one just under the skin of my biceps.. Im starting to get lean but still my belly is not like that of others in pictures. Then i remember again on how you can make yourself look good in the light. I often forget that pics that are posted are best moment pics..

[NeverSure]

The thing you said about eating more 1 out of 7 days its called carb or calory cycling. Suppossed to be good. I do it at times too. Yes its nice to see weight gone. But then i look in the mirror and wonder where the weight is gone from. Its hard at times to see improvement.

Now i see im getting veins in my arms and even one just under the skin of my biceps.. Im starting to get lean but still my belly is not like that of others in pictures. Then i remember again on how you can make yourself look good in the light. I often forget that pics that are posted are best moment pics..

Well, I can't really worry about what I look like until I get to a reasonable weight. I have lost 4 inches in the waist and had to toss some pants. I see it on the scales. So it's slowly happening but it's going to take a year so no rush. But yes I'm still too fat and it isn't "me" and its going to be gone.

I also have to get cleared to exercise before I see those muscles and veins. The good news is that just 3 months of working out will also show real improvement, so that will motivate too. I don't mean buff in 3 months, just real noticeable increase in strength - a start.

Hang in there. We didn't get into this shape over night and we aren't getting out of it over night either.

The first pic is a snap someone took of me about 5 years ago, at what I always weighed. Sorry, it's all I have - none standing up. The second is this past summer as a friend and I do some old Schwinn bike trading. I'm on the left in the checkered shirt. I can't believe the difference since I always weighed like the first pic. And yes, it's a family trait to not lose my hair which is irrelevant I know. This pic is near the top for weight - I'm almost 25 pounds lighter now.

[NeverSure]

My menu now - every day. Makes it easy to shop and prepare.

Breakfast is a smoothie.

2 raw eggs - 150 cal.

12 oz non fat sugar free live culture yogurt with real fruit pieces in it - 120 cal.

1 cup orange juice - 80 cal.

1 cup ice - 0 cal.

Total 350 cal. Makes a 24 oz smoothie.

Lunch.

8 oz lean roast beef - cut and weighed into portions right after roasting or crock pot cooking. 400 cals.

1 6 oz yogurt as above. 60 cals

12 oz non fat milk. 120 cals.

Total 580 cals. (I need that bigger meal with protein to hold me all day.)

Dinner

1 slice bread, 4 25 cal slices of lean turkey lunch meat made into 1/2 sandwich with mustard. 200 cals.

1 6 oz yogurt 60 cals

12 oz skim milk 120 cals.

Total 380 cals.

Daily total 1300 cals.

Snacks are hard boiled eggs or more yogurt, pushing it to not more than 1500 cals.

Every 5 to 7 days as needed I do that "calorie cycling" or I'd turn into a brain dead zombie.

Weight loss about 4-5 pounds a month with no exercising per Dr's orders.

[robblok]

I think its a bit more complicated for me as i want to weigh as heavy as possible with not much fat. So i like the weight going down.. meaning i loose fat. But at the same time i don't want to be light as it means i almost have no muscle mass.

Anyway i can't really complain i made enormous progress I was 107kg and am now 90 that is 17 kg.. but gained at least 5 kg muscle too.. so 22kg or almost 50lbs. In 10 months. Just now that i get close to the end i want it too mucch

[NeverSure]

I think its a bit more complicated for me as i want to weigh as heavy as possible with not much fat. So i like the weight going down.. meaning i loose fat. But at the same time i don't want to be light as it means i almost have no muscle mass.

Anyway i can't really complain i made enormous progress I was 107kg and am now 90 that is 17 kg.. but gained at least 5 kg muscle too.. so 22kg or almost 50lbs. In 10 months. Just now that i get close to the end i want it too mucch

Wow, you're really making progress. Congrats. I have a lot farther to go.

It isn't a family trait or natural for me to bulk up. I've been a strong but lean guy. A receiver, not a lineman, LOL. I was a sprinter, not a weight man. I'll be happy at 5'10" and 170 pounds - 77 kg, 179 cm ?? Hope I got that right. I do still have to add muscle while losing fat. I'm out of shape.

[robblok]

The whole thing is just a long term plan, but sometimes we all want it to go faster. I think that is human. I just want to get somewhere i never was before. That is my goal and i will see. Everyone needs to do it at his or her own speed. The more you have to loose the faster it goes.